Trump Russian Asset?

donny started getting groomed back then & it took years to mold him.... then it ramped up in 2013 when he was there for his pageant & fully became a puppet for putin.

I was in Moscow not so long ago for an event that we had, a big event, and many of his people were there. It was the Miss Universe contest, which I actually sold, which worked out incredibly well for me. I sold it last week, the Miss Universe pageant. And two weeks ago, it was a tremendous, we made a tremendous deal on it. And two weeks ago, I was in Moscow, I mean, two years ago, I was in Moscow. And a lot of the people, Hugh, they were there, and they had an amazing time. And they’re terrific people. You know, I was getting along with them so great. I really loved my weekend, I called it my weekend in Moscow. But I was with the top level people, both oligarchs and generals, and top of the government people. I can’t go further than that, but I will tell you that I met the top people, and the relationship was extraordinary.

Donald Trump Returns - The Hugh Hewitt Show
 
Our intelligence agencies came to the conclusion that Russia hacked or attempted to hack party committees and State voting systems. Trump took Putin's side over them and proposed a joint US-Russian cybersecurity venture.

Very odd behavior. But, it makes perfect sense, if....
Most convenient and so typical. Never accept the word of the establishment. You should know this by now. You’re not a baby anymore.
 
There are many questions concerning Trump's inexplicable actions concerning Russia with zero political will to answer them. The republicans don't want to know and the democrats don't want to be seen to have used our intelligence services against him. Perhaps when Trump is no longer relevant in any way we may finally find out just how bad it was.
What actions? Be specific.
You know all the accusations you just spent 5 years fighting. The off the record conversations with Putin. The undeclared Russian agents in his circle. The flat denials of clear Russian interference in the election. The hair on fire efforts to discredit the Steele dossier. The way he was far more hostile to our allies than Putin. The dirty Trump Moscow deal. The Trump tower meeting with Russian agents. The way he treated Ukraine. The way he shamelessly kissed Putin's ass no matter what. The Russians clearly had some sort of leverage over Trump. Why don't you want to know what it was?
You crazy. Just like a rabid Trumper, but don’t know it.
We are dealing with a hostile state that means us harm. Crazy would be just letting them screw with us without repercussions.
No. The danger we face is from our own government. A government that threatens the entire world with extermination. Your failure to recognize this obvious fact does you no favors.
 
There are many questions concerning Trump's inexplicable actions concerning Russia with zero political will to answer them. The republicans don't want to know and the democrats don't want to be seen to have used our intelligence services against him. Perhaps when Trump is no longer relevant in any way we may finally find out just how bad it was.
What actions? Be specific.
You know all the accusations you just spent 5 years fighting. The off the record conversations with Putin. The undeclared Russian agents in his circle. The flat denials of clear Russian interference in the election. The hair on fire efforts to discredit the Steele dossier. The way he was far more hostile to our allies than Putin. The dirty Trump Moscow deal. The Trump tower meeting with Russian agents. The way he treated Ukraine. The way he shamelessly kissed Putin's ass no matter what. The Russians clearly had some sort of leverage over Trump. Why don't you want to know what it was?
You crazy. Just like a rabid Trumper, but don’t know it.
We are dealing with a hostile state that means us harm. Crazy would be just letting them screw with us without repercussions.
No. The danger we face is from our own government. A government that threatens the entire world with extermination. Your failure to recognize this obvious fact does you no favors.
Are you from Russia? You seem to advocating a course of action for America that would favor Putin's expansionist ambitions in Eastern Europe. His tanks would roll tomorrow if he could be certain America and western Europe would stay out of it.
 
NY Mag makes a good case to the affirmative:


From the source:

Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump’s own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)



Trump returned from Moscow fired up with political ambition. He began the first of a long series of presidential flirtations, which included a flashy trip to New Hampshire. Two months after his Moscow visit, Trump spent almost $100,000 on a series of full-page newspaper ads that published a political manifesto. “An open letter from Donald J. Trump on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves,” as Trump labeled it, launched angry populist charges against the allies that benefited from the umbrella of American military protection. “Why are these nations not paying the United States for the human lives and billions of dollars we are losing to protect their interests?”


Wrong sub forum. Reported. Should be conspiracy theories. RIght next to Bigfoot.
What makes you think thanks a conspiracy theory? It's not like not came from gateway pundit. NY magazine is a pretty solid source.


Because it is insane nonsense.
There are many questions concerning Trump's inexplicable actions concerning Russia with zero political will to answer them. The republicans don't want to know and the democrats don't want to be seen to have used our intelligence services against him. Perhaps when Trump is no longer relevant in any way we may finally find out just how bad it was.


Are you prepared to fight wwiii over Estonia?
Are you prepared to just let Russia walk all over us and threaten our allies? Apparently so.

We should not be treaty bound to do shit, we are not actually prepared to do.


During the Cold War, I supported the idea that we would fight a war over West Germany.


But now, over ESTONIA?


That is what we are doing and it is insane.


That is not a reasonable policy.


Yet it is our policy.


NATO expansion was a bad idea, and now we have to leave it asap.
Agreed. Trump initially spoke of dismantling NATO, but he eventually expanded it. Further provoking Russia. He continued O’s numerous and onerous sanctions, then expanded economic sanctions on Russia. He allowed multiple war games to occur along Russia’s borders and US war ships plied the wars of the Black and Baltic Seas, further provoking Russia.

None of this is known to Americans who only consume establishment controlled media. It’s dangerous when our media lies and deceives the American people.


IMO, he realized that it was not politically possible to really reduce tensions with Russia and was not prepared to "die" on that hill.
That makes Don a coward. I suppose they told him he could end up like JFK if he pursued peace with Russia, as JFK tried to do.

Watch now as slow Joe ramps up tensions with Russia and the left who used to promote peace, will support him fully.
Letting Putin act with impunity to destroy our sphere of influence is nothing like peace.


So, you think it makes sense to fight wwiii over Estonia?
You think it makes sense to have a policy of automatic appeasement every time Putin acts in a hostile manner? That seems to be what you are suggesting.


I am suggesting that we have a foreign policy that makes sense.


Being treaty bound to fight wwiii over Estonia, does not make sense.


Do you agree?

Russia is in no position to fight World War III. Putin is broke and desperate and he’s military can’t even fight a war against the Ukraine and win.

Any defence of Estonia would be like defending Libya. Two weeks and gone with Putin dead. Russia has so much to lose and even attempting it.

Do you have a logical argument against NATO or are you just doing Putin’s bidding?


That is insane. Estonia is right on their border. We would never be able to hold it, and would have to push our way back in. It would take years, assuming no nukes.


Your confidence is the confidence of a fool.
 
NY Mag makes a good case to the affirmative:


From the source:

Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump’s own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)



Trump returned from Moscow fired up with political ambition. He began the first of a long series of presidential flirtations, which included a flashy trip to New Hampshire. Two months after his Moscow visit, Trump spent almost $100,000 on a series of full-page newspaper ads that published a political manifesto. “An open letter from Donald J. Trump on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves,” as Trump labeled it, launched angry populist charges against the allies that benefited from the umbrella of American military protection. “Why are these nations not paying the United States for the human lives and billions of dollars we are losing to protect their interests?”


Wrong sub forum. Reported. Should be conspiracy theories. RIght next to Bigfoot.
What makes you think thanks a conspiracy theory? It's not like not came from gateway pundit. NY magazine is a pretty solid source.


Because it is insane nonsense.
There are many questions concerning Trump's inexplicable actions concerning Russia with zero political will to answer them. The republicans don't want to know and the democrats don't want to be seen to have used our intelligence services against him. Perhaps when Trump is no longer relevant in any way we may finally find out just how bad it was.


Are you prepared to fight wwiii over Estonia?
Are you prepared to just let Russia walk all over us and threaten our allies? Apparently so.

We should not be treaty bound to do shit, we are not actually prepared to do.


During the Cold War, I supported the idea that we would fight a war over West Germany.


But now, over ESTONIA?


That is what we are doing and it is insane.


That is not a reasonable policy.


Yet it is our policy.


NATO expansion was a bad idea, and now we have to leave it asap.
Agreed. Trump initially spoke of dismantling NATO, but he eventually expanded it. Further provoking Russia. He continued O’s numerous and onerous sanctions, then expanded economic sanctions on Russia. He allowed multiple war games to occur along Russia’s borders and US war ships plied the wars of the Black and Baltic Seas, further provoking Russia.

None of this is known to Americans who only consume establishment controlled media. It’s dangerous when our media lies and deceives the American people.


IMO, he realized that it was not politically possible to really reduce tensions with Russia and was not prepared to "die" on that hill.
That makes Don a coward. I suppose they told him he could end up like JFK if he pursued peace with Russia, as JFK tried to do.

Watch now as slow Joe ramps up tensions with Russia and the left who used to promote peace, will support him fully.
Letting Putin act with impunity to destroy our sphere of influence is nothing like peace.


So, you think it makes sense to fight wwiii over Estonia?
You think it makes sense to have a policy of automatic appeasement every time Putin acts in a hostile manner? That seems to be what you are suggesting.


I am suggesting that we have a foreign policy that makes sense.


Being treaty bound to fight wwiii over Estonia, does not make sense.


Do you agree?
Seem to remember another time when it was considered too costly to oppose an expansionist power as they took territory that the western powers didn't really care that much about. WW2 lasted way longer than it should have because Germany was by that time surrounded by occupied territory. You simply cannot let them take that first step or you will eventually be fighting them in your front yard. Provocation must have a measured response otherwise there will be more and bigger provocation. The balance must be maintained even if it means protecting places you are too stupid to find on a map.


That is one way that things can spiral out of control.

Another model is WWI.


imo, Putin is no HItler out to crash and burn.

IMO, our situation is far more like the mess of interlocked treaties that led to the blood bath of wwi.


We have still not given any serious thought to our post Cold War foreign policy goals or interests since the end of hte Cold War.
 
NY Mag makes a good case to the affirmative:


From the source:

Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump’s own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)



Trump returned from Moscow fired up with political ambition. He began the first of a long series of presidential flirtations, which included a flashy trip to New Hampshire. Two months after his Moscow visit, Trump spent almost $100,000 on a series of full-page newspaper ads that published a political manifesto. “An open letter from Donald J. Trump on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves,” as Trump labeled it, launched angry populist charges against the allies that benefited from the umbrella of American military protection. “Why are these nations not paying the United States for the human lives and billions of dollars we are losing to protect their interests?”


Wrong sub forum. Reported. Should be conspiracy theories. RIght next to Bigfoot.
What makes you think thanks a conspiracy theory? It's not like not came from gateway pundit. NY magazine is a pretty solid source.


Because it is insane nonsense.
There are many questions concerning Trump's inexplicable actions concerning Russia with zero political will to answer them. The republicans don't want to know and the democrats don't want to be seen to have used our intelligence services against him. Perhaps when Trump is no longer relevant in any way we may finally find out just how bad it was.


Are you prepared to fight wwiii over Estonia?
Are you prepared to just let Russia walk all over us and threaten our allies? Apparently so.

We should not be treaty bound to do shit, we are not actually prepared to do.


During the Cold War, I supported the idea that we would fight a war over West Germany.


But now, over ESTONIA?


That is what we are doing and it is insane.


That is not a reasonable policy.


Yet it is our policy.


NATO expansion was a bad idea, and now we have to leave it asap.
Agreed. Trump initially spoke of dismantling NATO, but he eventually expanded it. Further provoking Russia. He continued O’s numerous and onerous sanctions, then expanded economic sanctions on Russia. He allowed multiple war games to occur along Russia’s borders and US war ships plied the wars of the Black and Baltic Seas, further provoking Russia.

None of this is known to Americans who only consume establishment controlled media. It’s dangerous when our media lies and deceives the American people.


IMO, he realized that it was not politically possible to really reduce tensions with Russia and was not prepared to "die" on that hill.
That makes Don a coward. I suppose they told him he could end up like JFK if he pursued peace with Russia, as JFK tried to do.

Watch now as slow Joe ramps up tensions with Russia and the left who used to promote peace, will support him fully.
Letting Putin act with impunity to destroy our sphere of influence is nothing like peace.


So, you think it makes sense to fight wwiii over Estonia?
You think it makes sense to have a policy of automatic appeasement every time Putin acts in a hostile manner? That seems to be what you are suggesting.


I am suggesting that we have a foreign policy that makes sense.


Being treaty bound to fight wwiii over Estonia, does not make sense.


Do you agree?
Seem to remember another time when it was considered too costly to oppose an expansionist power as they took territory that the western powers didn't really care that much about. WW2 lasted way longer than it should have because Germany was by that time surrounded by occupied territory. You simply cannot let them take that first step or you will eventually be fighting them in your front yard. Provocation must have a measured response otherwise there will be more and bigger provocation. The balance must be maintained even if it means protecting places you are too stupid to find on a map.


That is one way that things can spiral out of control.

Another model is WWI.


imo, Putin is no HItler out to crash and burn.

IMO, our situation is far more like the mess of interlocked treaties that led to the blood bath of wwi.


We have still not given any serious thought to our post Cold War foreign policy goals or interests since the end of hte Cold War.
Your "serious thought" probably includes retreating from the territories of the former Soviet Union and doing nothing should Putin decide to take them back under Russian control. Amazing how many right wingers somehow think that would be a very, very good idea.
 
NY Mag makes a good case to the affirmative:


From the source:

Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump’s own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)



Trump returned from Moscow fired up with political ambition. He began the first of a long series of presidential flirtations, which included a flashy trip to New Hampshire. Two months after his Moscow visit, Trump spent almost $100,000 on a series of full-page newspaper ads that published a political manifesto. “An open letter from Donald J. Trump on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves,” as Trump labeled it, launched angry populist charges against the allies that benefited from the umbrella of American military protection. “Why are these nations not paying the United States for the human lives and billions of dollars we are losing to protect their interests?”


Wrong sub forum. Reported. Should be conspiracy theories. RIght next to Bigfoot.
What makes you think thanks a conspiracy theory? It's not like not came from gateway pundit. NY magazine is a pretty solid source.


Because it is insane nonsense.
There are many questions concerning Trump's inexplicable actions concerning Russia with zero political will to answer them. The republicans don't want to know and the democrats don't want to be seen to have used our intelligence services against him. Perhaps when Trump is no longer relevant in any way we may finally find out just how bad it was.


Are you prepared to fight wwiii over Estonia?
Are you prepared to just let Russia walk all over us and threaten our allies? Apparently so.

We should not be treaty bound to do shit, we are not actually prepared to do.


During the Cold War, I supported the idea that we would fight a war over West Germany.


But now, over ESTONIA?


That is what we are doing and it is insane.


That is not a reasonable policy.


Yet it is our policy.


NATO expansion was a bad idea, and now we have to leave it asap.
Agreed. Trump initially spoke of dismantling NATO, but he eventually expanded it. Further provoking Russia. He continued O’s numerous and onerous sanctions, then expanded economic sanctions on Russia. He allowed multiple war games to occur along Russia’s borders and US war ships plied the wars of the Black and Baltic Seas, further provoking Russia.

None of this is known to Americans who only consume establishment controlled media. It’s dangerous when our media lies and deceives the American people.


IMO, he realized that it was not politically possible to really reduce tensions with Russia and was not prepared to "die" on that hill.
That makes Don a coward. I suppose they told him he could end up like JFK if he pursued peace with Russia, as JFK tried to do.

Watch now as slow Joe ramps up tensions with Russia and the left who used to promote peace, will support him fully.
Letting Putin act with impunity to destroy our sphere of influence is nothing like peace.


So, you think it makes sense to fight wwiii over Estonia?
You think it makes sense to have a policy of automatic appeasement every time Putin acts in a hostile manner? That seems to be what you are suggesting.


I am suggesting that we have a foreign policy that makes sense.


Being treaty bound to fight wwiii over Estonia, does not make sense.


Do you agree?
Seem to remember another time when it was considered too costly to oppose an expansionist power as they took territory that the western powers didn't really care that much about. WW2 lasted way longer than it should have because Germany was by that time surrounded by occupied territory. You simply cannot let them take that first step or you will eventually be fighting them in your front yard. Provocation must have a measured response otherwise there will be more and bigger provocation. The balance must be maintained even if it means protecting places you are too stupid to find on a map.


That is one way that things can spiral out of control.

Another model is WWI.


imo, Putin is no HItler out to crash and burn.

IMO, our situation is far more like the mess of interlocked treaties that led to the blood bath of wwi.


We have still not given any serious thought to our post Cold War foreign policy goals or interests since the end of hte Cold War.
Your "serious thought" probably includes retreating from the territories of the former Soviet Union and doing nothing should Putin decide to take them back under Russian control. Amazing how many right wingers somehow think that would be a very, very good idea.
They all saw tRump submit to Putin in Geneva so they are lining up to do the same.
 
NY Mag makes a good case to the affirmative:


From the source:

Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump’s own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)



Trump returned from Moscow fired up with political ambition. He began the first of a long series of presidential flirtations, which included a flashy trip to New Hampshire. Two months after his Moscow visit, Trump spent almost $100,000 on a series of full-page newspaper ads that published a political manifesto. “An open letter from Donald J. Trump on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves,” as Trump labeled it, launched angry populist charges against the allies that benefited from the umbrella of American military protection. “Why are these nations not paying the United States for the human lives and billions of dollars we are losing to protect their interests?”


Wrong sub forum. Reported. Should be conspiracy theories. RIght next to Bigfoot.
What makes you think thanks a conspiracy theory? It's not like not came from gateway pundit. NY magazine is a pretty solid source.


Because it is insane nonsense.
There are many questions concerning Trump's inexplicable actions concerning Russia with zero political will to answer them. The republicans don't want to know and the democrats don't want to be seen to have used our intelligence services against him. Perhaps when Trump is no longer relevant in any way we may finally find out just how bad it was.


Are you prepared to fight wwiii over Estonia?
Are you prepared to just let Russia walk all over us and threaten our allies? Apparently so.

We should not be treaty bound to do shit, we are not actually prepared to do.


During the Cold War, I supported the idea that we would fight a war over West Germany.


But now, over ESTONIA?


That is what we are doing and it is insane.


That is not a reasonable policy.


Yet it is our policy.


NATO expansion was a bad idea, and now we have to leave it asap.
Agreed. Trump initially spoke of dismantling NATO, but he eventually expanded it. Further provoking Russia. He continued O’s numerous and onerous sanctions, then expanded economic sanctions on Russia. He allowed multiple war games to occur along Russia’s borders and US war ships plied the wars of the Black and Baltic Seas, further provoking Russia.

None of this is known to Americans who only consume establishment controlled media. It’s dangerous when our media lies and deceives the American people.


IMO, he realized that it was not politically possible to really reduce tensions with Russia and was not prepared to "die" on that hill.
That makes Don a coward. I suppose they told him he could end up like JFK if he pursued peace with Russia, as JFK tried to do.

Watch now as slow Joe ramps up tensions with Russia and the left who used to promote peace, will support him fully.
Letting Putin act with impunity to destroy our sphere of influence is nothing like peace.


So, you think it makes sense to fight wwiii over Estonia?
You think it makes sense to have a policy of automatic appeasement every time Putin acts in a hostile manner? That seems to be what you are suggesting.


I am suggesting that we have a foreign policy that makes sense.


Being treaty bound to fight wwiii over Estonia, does not make sense.


Do you agree?
Seem to remember another time when it was considered too costly to oppose an expansionist power as they took territory that the western powers didn't really care that much about. WW2 lasted way longer than it should have because Germany was by that time surrounded by occupied territory. You simply cannot let them take that first step or you will eventually be fighting them in your front yard. Provocation must have a measured response otherwise there will be more and bigger provocation. The balance must be maintained even if it means protecting places you are too stupid to find on a map.


That is one way that things can spiral out of control.

Another model is WWI.


imo, Putin is no HItler out to crash and burn.

IMO, our situation is far more like the mess of interlocked treaties that led to the blood bath of wwi.


We have still not given any serious thought to our post Cold War foreign policy goals or interests since the end of hte Cold War.
Your "serious thought" probably includes retreating from the territories of the former Soviet Union and doing nothing should Putin decide to take them back under Russian control. Amazing how many right wingers somehow think that would be a very, very good idea.


If Putin wants to ruin Russia by trying to conquer the various Muslim republics and the Ukraine and teh Baltics and Belorussia,

I'm sorry to see the massive loss of human life and the massive waste of money, in a world where it could have done some good.


But, beyond that, it would not be a threat to US, or even Western Europe and so, yes, I would NOT want to get involved.


How about this? THE next time they decide to throw a war? Let's not get involved.
 
NY Mag makes a good case to the affirmative:


From the source:

Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump’s own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)



Trump returned from Moscow fired up with political ambition. He began the first of a long series of presidential flirtations, which included a flashy trip to New Hampshire. Two months after his Moscow visit, Trump spent almost $100,000 on a series of full-page newspaper ads that published a political manifesto. “An open letter from Donald J. Trump on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves,” as Trump labeled it, launched angry populist charges against the allies that benefited from the umbrella of American military protection. “Why are these nations not paying the United States for the human lives and billions of dollars we are losing to protect their interests?”


Wrong sub forum. Reported. Should be conspiracy theories. RIght next to Bigfoot.
What makes you think thanks a conspiracy theory? It's not like not came from gateway pundit. NY magazine is a pretty solid source.


Because it is insane nonsense.
There are many questions concerning Trump's inexplicable actions concerning Russia with zero political will to answer them. The republicans don't want to know and the democrats don't want to be seen to have used our intelligence services against him. Perhaps when Trump is no longer relevant in any way we may finally find out just how bad it was.


Are you prepared to fight wwiii over Estonia?
Are you prepared to just let Russia walk all over us and threaten our allies? Apparently so.

We should not be treaty bound to do shit, we are not actually prepared to do.


During the Cold War, I supported the idea that we would fight a war over West Germany.


But now, over ESTONIA?


That is what we are doing and it is insane.


That is not a reasonable policy.


Yet it is our policy.


NATO expansion was a bad idea, and now we have to leave it asap.
Agreed. Trump initially spoke of dismantling NATO, but he eventually expanded it. Further provoking Russia. He continued O’s numerous and onerous sanctions, then expanded economic sanctions on Russia. He allowed multiple war games to occur along Russia’s borders and US war ships plied the wars of the Black and Baltic Seas, further provoking Russia.

None of this is known to Americans who only consume establishment controlled media. It’s dangerous when our media lies and deceives the American people.


IMO, he realized that it was not politically possible to really reduce tensions with Russia and was not prepared to "die" on that hill.
That makes Don a coward. I suppose they told him he could end up like JFK if he pursued peace with Russia, as JFK tried to do.

Watch now as slow Joe ramps up tensions with Russia and the left who used to promote peace, will support him fully.
Letting Putin act with impunity to destroy our sphere of influence is nothing like peace.


So, you think it makes sense to fight wwiii over Estonia?
You think it makes sense to have a policy of automatic appeasement every time Putin acts in a hostile manner? That seems to be what you are suggesting.


I am suggesting that we have a foreign policy that makes sense.


Being treaty bound to fight wwiii over Estonia, does not make sense.


Do you agree?
Seem to remember another time when it was considered too costly to oppose an expansionist power as they took territory that the western powers didn't really care that much about. WW2 lasted way longer than it should have because Germany was by that time surrounded by occupied territory. You simply cannot let them take that first step or you will eventually be fighting them in your front yard. Provocation must have a measured response otherwise there will be more and bigger provocation. The balance must be maintained even if it means protecting places you are too stupid to find on a map.


That is one way that things can spiral out of control.

Another model is WWI.


imo, Putin is no HItler out to crash and burn.

IMO, our situation is far more like the mess of interlocked treaties that led to the blood bath of wwi.


We have still not given any serious thought to our post Cold War foreign policy goals or interests since the end of hte Cold War.
Your "serious thought" probably includes retreating from the territories of the former Soviet Union and doing nothing should Putin decide to take them back under Russian control. Amazing how many right wingers somehow think that would be a very, very good idea.
They all saw tRump submit to Putin in Geneva so they are lining up to do the same.


You talk like a retarded baby.
 
NY Mag makes a good case to the affirmative:


From the source:

Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump’s own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)



Trump returned from Moscow fired up with political ambition. He began the first of a long series of presidential flirtations, which included a flashy trip to New Hampshire. Two months after his Moscow visit, Trump spent almost $100,000 on a series of full-page newspaper ads that published a political manifesto. “An open letter from Donald J. Trump on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves,” as Trump labeled it, launched angry populist charges against the allies that benefited from the umbrella of American military protection. “Why are these nations not paying the United States for the human lives and billions of dollars we are losing to protect their interests?”


Wrong sub forum. Reported. Should be conspiracy theories. RIght next to Bigfoot.
What makes you think thanks a conspiracy theory? It's not like not came from gateway pundit. NY magazine is a pretty solid source.


Because it is insane nonsense.
There are many questions concerning Trump's inexplicable actions concerning Russia with zero political will to answer them. The republicans don't want to know and the democrats don't want to be seen to have used our intelligence services against him. Perhaps when Trump is no longer relevant in any way we may finally find out just how bad it was.


Are you prepared to fight wwiii over Estonia?
Are you prepared to just let Russia walk all over us and threaten our allies? Apparently so.

We should not be treaty bound to do shit, we are not actually prepared to do.


During the Cold War, I supported the idea that we would fight a war over West Germany.


But now, over ESTONIA?


That is what we are doing and it is insane.


That is not a reasonable policy.


Yet it is our policy.


NATO expansion was a bad idea, and now we have to leave it asap.
Agreed. Trump initially spoke of dismantling NATO, but he eventually expanded it. Further provoking Russia. He continued O’s numerous and onerous sanctions, then expanded economic sanctions on Russia. He allowed multiple war games to occur along Russia’s borders and US war ships plied the wars of the Black and Baltic Seas, further provoking Russia.

None of this is known to Americans who only consume establishment controlled media. It’s dangerous when our media lies and deceives the American people.


IMO, he realized that it was not politically possible to really reduce tensions with Russia and was not prepared to "die" on that hill.
That makes Don a coward. I suppose they told him he could end up like JFK if he pursued peace with Russia, as JFK tried to do.

Watch now as slow Joe ramps up tensions with Russia and the left who used to promote peace, will support him fully.
Letting Putin act with impunity to destroy our sphere of influence is nothing like peace.


So, you think it makes sense to fight wwiii over Estonia?
You think it makes sense to have a policy of automatic appeasement every time Putin acts in a hostile manner? That seems to be what you are suggesting.


I am suggesting that we have a foreign policy that makes sense.


Being treaty bound to fight wwiii over Estonia, does not make sense.


Do you agree?
Seem to remember another time when it was considered too costly to oppose an expansionist power as they took territory that the western powers didn't really care that much about. WW2 lasted way longer than it should have because Germany was by that time surrounded by occupied territory. You simply cannot let them take that first step or you will eventually be fighting them in your front yard. Provocation must have a measured response otherwise there will be more and bigger provocation. The balance must be maintained even if it means protecting places you are too stupid to find on a map.


That is one way that things can spiral out of control.

Another model is WWI.


imo, Putin is no HItler out to crash and burn.

IMO, our situation is far more like the mess of interlocked treaties that led to the blood bath of wwi.


We have still not given any serious thought to our post Cold War foreign policy goals or interests since the end of hte Cold War.
Your "serious thought" probably includes retreating from the territories of the former Soviet Union and doing nothing should Putin decide to take them back under Russian control. Amazing how many right wingers somehow think that would be a very, very good idea.
They all saw tRump submit to Putin in Geneva so they are lining up to do the same.


You talk like a retarded baby.
You talk like someone who has never valued democracy in the slightest.
 
NY Mag makes a good case to the affirmative:


From the source:

Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump’s own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)



Trump returned from Moscow fired up with political ambition. He began the first of a long series of presidential flirtations, which included a flashy trip to New Hampshire. Two months after his Moscow visit, Trump spent almost $100,000 on a series of full-page newspaper ads that published a political manifesto. “An open letter from Donald J. Trump on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves,” as Trump labeled it, launched angry populist charges against the allies that benefited from the umbrella of American military protection. “Why are these nations not paying the United States for the human lives and billions of dollars we are losing to protect their interests?”


Wrong sub forum. Reported. Should be conspiracy theories. RIght next to Bigfoot.
What makes you think thanks a conspiracy theory? It's not like not came from gateway pundit. NY magazine is a pretty solid source.


Because it is insane nonsense.
There are many questions concerning Trump's inexplicable actions concerning Russia with zero political will to answer them. The republicans don't want to know and the democrats don't want to be seen to have used our intelligence services against him. Perhaps when Trump is no longer relevant in any way we may finally find out just how bad it was.


Are you prepared to fight wwiii over Estonia?
Are you prepared to just let Russia walk all over us and threaten our allies? Apparently so.

We should not be treaty bound to do shit, we are not actually prepared to do.


During the Cold War, I supported the idea that we would fight a war over West Germany.


But now, over ESTONIA?


That is what we are doing and it is insane.


That is not a reasonable policy.


Yet it is our policy.


NATO expansion was a bad idea, and now we have to leave it asap.
Agreed. Trump initially spoke of dismantling NATO, but he eventually expanded it. Further provoking Russia. He continued O’s numerous and onerous sanctions, then expanded economic sanctions on Russia. He allowed multiple war games to occur along Russia’s borders and US war ships plied the wars of the Black and Baltic Seas, further provoking Russia.

None of this is known to Americans who only consume establishment controlled media. It’s dangerous when our media lies and deceives the American people.


IMO, he realized that it was not politically possible to really reduce tensions with Russia and was not prepared to "die" on that hill.
That makes Don a coward. I suppose they told him he could end up like JFK if he pursued peace with Russia, as JFK tried to do.

Watch now as slow Joe ramps up tensions with Russia and the left who used to promote peace, will support him fully.
Letting Putin act with impunity to destroy our sphere of influence is nothing like peace.


So, you think it makes sense to fight wwiii over Estonia?
You think it makes sense to have a policy of automatic appeasement every time Putin acts in a hostile manner? That seems to be what you are suggesting.


I am suggesting that we have a foreign policy that makes sense.


Being treaty bound to fight wwiii over Estonia, does not make sense.


Do you agree?
Seem to remember another time when it was considered too costly to oppose an expansionist power as they took territory that the western powers didn't really care that much about. WW2 lasted way longer than it should have because Germany was by that time surrounded by occupied territory. You simply cannot let them take that first step or you will eventually be fighting them in your front yard. Provocation must have a measured response otherwise there will be more and bigger provocation. The balance must be maintained even if it means protecting places you are too stupid to find on a map.


That is one way that things can spiral out of control.

Another model is WWI.


imo, Putin is no HItler out to crash and burn.

IMO, our situation is far more like the mess of interlocked treaties that led to the blood bath of wwi.


We have still not given any serious thought to our post Cold War foreign policy goals or interests since the end of hte Cold War.
Your "serious thought" probably includes retreating from the territories of the former Soviet Union and doing nothing should Putin decide to take them back under Russian control. Amazing how many right wingers somehow think that would be a very, very good idea.
They all saw tRump submit to Putin in Geneva so they are lining up to do the same.


You talk like a retarded baby.
You talk like someone who has never valued democracy in the slightest.


If you were serious about your point, you would not want to talk like a retarded baby while making it.


When you do that, you are admitting that your argument is not serious, that what you are really doing it throwing shit at the wall, like a retarded monkey, to see if anything sticks or to create teh illusion of credibility from repetition.


BECAUSE, on some level you know, that your position is complete bullshit.
 
NY Mag makes a good case to the affirmative:


From the source:

Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump’s own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)



Trump returned from Moscow fired up with political ambition. He began the first of a long series of presidential flirtations, which included a flashy trip to New Hampshire. Two months after his Moscow visit, Trump spent almost $100,000 on a series of full-page newspaper ads that published a political manifesto. “An open letter from Donald J. Trump on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves,” as Trump labeled it, launched angry populist charges against the allies that benefited from the umbrella of American military protection. “Why are these nations not paying the United States for the human lives and billions of dollars we are losing to protect their interests?”


Wrong sub forum. Reported. Should be conspiracy theories. RIght next to Bigfoot.
What makes you think thanks a conspiracy theory? It's not like not came from gateway pundit. NY magazine is a pretty solid source.


Because it is insane nonsense.
There are many questions concerning Trump's inexplicable actions concerning Russia with zero political will to answer them. The republicans don't want to know and the democrats don't want to be seen to have used our intelligence services against him. Perhaps when Trump is no longer relevant in any way we may finally find out just how bad it was.


Are you prepared to fight wwiii over Estonia?
Are you prepared to just let Russia walk all over us and threaten our allies? Apparently so.

We should not be treaty bound to do shit, we are not actually prepared to do.


During the Cold War, I supported the idea that we would fight a war over West Germany.


But now, over ESTONIA?


That is what we are doing and it is insane.


That is not a reasonable policy.


Yet it is our policy.


NATO expansion was a bad idea, and now we have to leave it asap.
Agreed. Trump initially spoke of dismantling NATO, but he eventually expanded it. Further provoking Russia. He continued O’s numerous and onerous sanctions, then expanded economic sanctions on Russia. He allowed multiple war games to occur along Russia’s borders and US war ships plied the wars of the Black and Baltic Seas, further provoking Russia.

None of this is known to Americans who only consume establishment controlled media. It’s dangerous when our media lies and deceives the American people.


IMO, he realized that it was not politically possible to really reduce tensions with Russia and was not prepared to "die" on that hill.
That makes Don a coward. I suppose they told him he could end up like JFK if he pursued peace with Russia, as JFK tried to do.

Watch now as slow Joe ramps up tensions with Russia and the left who used to promote peace, will support him fully.
Letting Putin act with impunity to destroy our sphere of influence is nothing like peace.


So, you think it makes sense to fight wwiii over Estonia?
You think it makes sense to have a policy of automatic appeasement every time Putin acts in a hostile manner? That seems to be what you are suggesting.


I am suggesting that we have a foreign policy that makes sense.


Being treaty bound to fight wwiii over Estonia, does not make sense.


Do you agree?
Seem to remember another time when it was considered too costly to oppose an expansionist power as they took territory that the western powers didn't really care that much about. WW2 lasted way longer than it should have because Germany was by that time surrounded by occupied territory. You simply cannot let them take that first step or you will eventually be fighting them in your front yard. Provocation must have a measured response otherwise there will be more and bigger provocation. The balance must be maintained even if it means protecting places you are too stupid to find on a map.


That is one way that things can spiral out of control.

Another model is WWI.


imo, Putin is no HItler out to crash and burn.

IMO, our situation is far more like the mess of interlocked treaties that led to the blood bath of wwi.


We have still not given any serious thought to our post Cold War foreign policy goals or interests since the end of hte Cold War.
Your "serious thought" probably includes retreating from the territories of the former Soviet Union and doing nothing should Putin decide to take them back under Russian control. Amazing how many right wingers somehow think that would be a very, very good idea.
They all saw tRump submit to Putin in Geneva so they are lining up to do the same.


You talk like a retarded baby.
You talk like someone who has never valued democracy in the slightest.


If you were serious about your point, you would not want to talk like a retarded baby while making it.


When you do that, you are admitting that your argument is not serious, that what you are really doing it throwing shit at the wall, like a retarded monkey, to see if anything sticks or to create teh illusion of credibility from repetition.


BECAUSE, on some level you know, that your position is complete bullshit.
My position is the one that beat Russia back behind their borders. Yours is the one that is "coincidentally" the same as Putin's.
 

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