Trump Russian Asset?

gipper

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West Germany has not existed for decades. What the fuck are you even talking about?

Are you seriously pretending that nothing has changed since the Cold War ended, adn the Soviet Union fell, or are you just talking shit?
Crack open a history book and see what happens when you contain Russia instead of emboldening it.

You contain them and they lose power and influence. Is it cheap? No. But it does lead to prosperity and expansion for your businesses.

Now, lets look at what happens when you have the blob in power. They influence our elections in 2016....we do nothing. So then around 2020 they come back for more. Weakness invites more attacks.

The Cold War is still going on. The battlefield is cyber to some degree. They are poisoning internal opposition. Soon they would have been poisoning foreign officials since there is no downside.

Are you pretending that a weakened NATO doesn't help Russia? Of course you are. Why because you're stupid.
Trump strengthen NATO. Yet, you don’t know that. You believe whatever the corrupt establishment tells you to believe.

Silly Americans fear Russia, yet they should fear their own warmongering imperialist government.
 

ESay

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But now, over ESTONIA?
What you dont get is that there wont be a war over Estonia. The Cold War was won not by military means.

So, are you implying it is a bluff, only made because we assume that we will not have to honor it?
I am implying that Russia wont wage a war against Estonia, at least until it is in some Western bloc. Russia wont endure severe economic pressure from the West. Except of that, remember that a significant part (the vast part, I assume) of money and property of Russian high ranked officials and oligarchs is on the West. As well as their children.
 

ESay

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The Soviets taking West Germany was a threat to US.

The Russians taking Estonia, is not
Why? Because Estonia is some hundred miles farther from Washington?
 
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candycorn

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Crack open a history book and see what happens when you contain Russia instead of emboldening it
And we don't need to just make an educated guess. Putin has pretty much expressed his desire to get the old gang back together. He doesn't make any secret of it.
Putin played the blob like a fiddle. There is a reason Russia wanted Trump to remain President.
 

Lysistrata

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The news that trump has been in cahoots with the Russians comes as no surprise. The signs have been there for quite some time. I suspect that this is at least partially behind the right-wing attempts to blame China, and Biden, for just about everything. I'm not siding with China. I'm just saying that the right-wingers always use deflection to take the heat off themselves.
One of tRump's favorite tactics is to accuse other people of the crimes he has already committed.
This is straight out of Goebbel's playbook. It works on the ignorant, as we have seen.
 
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candycorn

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Then there is this:

Here are twelve ways that Putin has received his payout:

1. Putin’s Goal: Weaken and divide the transatlantic alliance. • Putin’s Payout: Trump undermines US relationships with European allies and calls the US’s commitment to NATO into question.

2. Putin’s Goal: Degrade the European Union and foster pro-Russian political movements. • Putin’s Payout: Trump attacks the EU and actively supports anti-EU, Kremlin-backed parties.

3. Putin’s Goal: Disrupt American leadership and dominance of the global economic order. • Putin’s Payout: Trump is eagerly pushing for an all-out trade war with Europe

4. Putin’s Goal: Build global resentment and distrust towards the US and stoke anti-American sentiment. • Putin’s Payout: America’s closest allies are explicitly suspicious and distrusting of the US because of Trump’s rhetoric and actions.

5. Putin’s Goal: Relieve economic and domestic political pressure from US sanctions on Russia. • Putin’s Payout: Trump tries to roll back, impede, and blunt the impact of sanctions at every step.

6. Putin’s Goal: Legitimize his regime in the eyes of the world. • Putin’s Payout: Trump repeatedly praises and defends Putin, lending the credibility of the US presidency to Putin’s standing.

7. Putin’s Goal: Revive Russia’s status as a great power and gain international recognition for its illegal seizure of Crimea. • Putin’s Payout: Trump publicly says that Crimea is part of Russia and calls for Russia to be welcomed back into the international community with no concessions.

8. Putin’s Goal: Continue to sow discord in Western democracies and avoid repercussions for interfering in American and European elections. • Putin’s Payout: Trump dismisses Russian interference and has done nothing to prevent future interference, putting him at odds with his own intelligence community.

9. Putin’s Goal: Soften America’s adversarial stance toward Russia. • Putin’s Payout: Trump is shifting the Republican Party’s generations-long hawkish views on Russia.

10. Putin’s Goal: Destabilize the US from within. • Putin’s Payout: Trump attacks US institutions while driving divisive politics and eroding democratic norms.

11. Putin’s goal: Advance the Kremlin’s narrative to shape global perceptions. • Putin’s payout: Trump has repeatedly, and inexplicably, parroted Kremlin talking points across a range of global issues.

12. Putin’s goal: Undermine international norms and democratic values abroad. • Putin’s payout: Trump has repeatedly failed to respond to human rights violations or support democracy abroad, creating a more permissive environment for autocrats to crack down


More good stuff at the source...
 

Correll

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But now, over ESTONIA?
What you dont get is that there wont be a war over Estonia. The Cold War was won not by military means.

So, are you implying it is a bluff, only made because we assume that we will not have to honor it?
I am implying that Russia wont wage a war against Estonia, at least until it is in some Western bloc. Russia wont endure severe economic pressure from the West. Except of that, remember that a significant part (the vast part, I assume) of money and property of Russian high ranked officials and oligarchs is on the West. As well as their children.

Estonia is part of NATO. That is THE western bloc.


We are treaty bound to fight wwiii over that nation. That is bad policy. It looks like a bluff. Thus it invites conflict.
 

Correll

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The Soviets taking West Germany was a threat to US.

The Russians taking Estonia, is not
Why? Because Estonia is some hundred miles farther from Washington?

Nope. Because estonia is a very small nation and West Germany was a large nation AND closer to France.


Taking West Germany would have put the Soviet Union is a position to dominate the world.


Taking Estonia does nothing to threaten the US.


It is bad policy that we are committed to defend them.
 

gipper

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Then there is this:

Here are twelve ways that Putin has received his payout:

1. Putin’s Goal: Weaken and divide the transatlantic alliance. • Putin’s Payout: Trump undermines US relationships with European allies and calls the US’s commitment to NATO into question.

2. Putin’s Goal: Degrade the European Union and foster pro-Russian political movements. • Putin’s Payout: Trump attacks the EU and actively supports anti-EU, Kremlin-backed parties.

3. Putin’s Goal: Disrupt American leadership and dominance of the global economic order. • Putin’s Payout: Trump is eagerly pushing for an all-out trade war with Europe

4. Putin’s Goal: Build global resentment and distrust towards the US and stoke anti-American sentiment. • Putin’s Payout: America’s closest allies are explicitly suspicious and distrusting of the US because of Trump’s rhetoric and actions.

5. Putin’s Goal: Relieve economic and domestic political pressure from US sanctions on Russia. • Putin’s Payout: Trump tries to roll back, impede, and blunt the impact of sanctions at every step.

6. Putin’s Goal: Legitimize his regime in the eyes of the world. • Putin’s Payout: Trump repeatedly praises and defends Putin, lending the credibility of the US presidency to Putin’s standing.

7. Putin’s Goal: Revive Russia’s status as a great power and gain international recognition for its illegal seizure of Crimea. • Putin’s Payout: Trump publicly says that Crimea is part of Russia and calls for Russia to be welcomed back into the international community with no concessions.

8. Putin’s Goal: Continue to sow discord in Western democracies and avoid repercussions for interfering in American and European elections. • Putin’s Payout: Trump dismisses Russian interference and has done nothing to prevent future interference, putting him at odds with his own intelligence community.

9. Putin’s Goal: Soften America’s adversarial stance toward Russia. • Putin’s Payout: Trump is shifting the Republican Party’s generations-long hawkish views on Russia.

10. Putin’s Goal: Destabilize the US from within. • Putin’s Payout: Trump attacks US institutions while driving divisive politics and eroding democratic norms.

11. Putin’s goal: Advance the Kremlin’s narrative to shape global perceptions. • Putin’s payout: Trump has repeatedly, and inexplicably, parroted Kremlin talking points across a range of global issues.

12. Putin’s goal: Undermine international norms and democratic values abroad. • Putin’s payout: Trump has repeatedly failed to respond to human rights violations or support democracy abroad, creating a more permissive environment for autocrats to crack down


More good stuff at the source...
This crazed delusional hatred for Russia by the left, just might get us all killed.
 

ESay

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The Soviets taking West Germany was a threat to US.

The Russians taking Estonia, is not
Why? Because Estonia is some hundred miles farther from Washington?

Nope. Because estonia is a very small nation and West Germany was a large nation AND closer to France.


Taking West Germany would have put the Soviet Union is a position to dominate the world.


Taking Estonia does nothing to threaten the US.


It is bad policy that we are committed to defend them.
What can you say about Denmark? If the Soviets had attacked Copenhagen, would it be reasonable to defend it?
 

gipper

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The Soviets taking West Germany was a threat to US.

The Russians taking Estonia, is not
Why? Because Estonia is some hundred miles farther from Washington?

Nope. Because estonia is a very small nation and West Germany was a large nation AND closer to France.


Taking West Germany would have put the Soviet Union is a position to dominate the world.


Taking Estonia does nothing to threaten the US.


It is bad policy that we are committed to defend them.
What can you say about Denmark? If the Soviets had attacked Copenhagen, would it be reasonable to defend it?
You should be more concerned about the US government attacking someone. After all, they have a long history of doing so. Russia has attacked no one and threatens no one, unlike the US.
 

gipper

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Russia has attacked no one and threatens no one, unlike the US
I live in Ukraine, dude. So, go tell this heartbreaking story to somebody else.
Then you know first hand how the west is provoking the Bear. The West instigated a coup in your country to overthrow a freely elected president , so they could install one who hates Russia.
 

ESay

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Russia has attacked no one and threatens no one, unlike the US
I live in Ukraine, dude. So, go tell this heartbreaking story to somebody else.
Then you know first hand how the west is provoking the Bear. The West instigated a coup in your country to overthrow a freely elected president , so they could install one who hates Russia.
Well, I dont have a desire to discuss that over again. 5 years ago (more or less) there were heated debates between me and some Russians in the European section about this matter. You can use the search engine to find them, I you wish. It all was discussed up and down.
 

Correll

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The Soviets taking West Germany was a threat to US.

The Russians taking Estonia, is not
Why? Because Estonia is some hundred miles farther from Washington?

Nope. Because estonia is a very small nation and West Germany was a large nation AND closer to France.


Taking West Germany would have put the Soviet Union is a position to dominate the world.


Taking Estonia does nothing to threaten the US.


It is bad policy that we are committed to defend them.
What can you say about Denmark? If the Soviets had attacked Copenhagen, would it be reasonable to defend it?

Yes. Do you need me to explain why?


My point stands. Being Treaty Bound to defend Estonia at the cost of WWIII,

is bad policy.
 

gipper

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Russia has attacked no one and threatens no one, unlike the US
I live in Ukraine, dude. So, go tell this heartbreaking story to somebody else.
Then you know first hand how the west is provoking the Bear. The West instigated a coup in your country to overthrow a freely elected president , so they could install one who hates Russia.
Well, I dont have a desire to discuss that over again. 5 years ago (more or less) there were heated debates between me and some Russians in the European section about this matter. You can use the search engine to find them, I you wish. It all was discussed up and down.
Yes it was, but most Americans believe the lies from their media about the event. It was a coup perpetrated by Obama.

Russia has been under attack by the west since the fallof the USSR. The militarists and imperialists in the west need an enemy.
 

marvin martian

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NY Mag makes a good case to the affirmative:


From the source:

Trump visited Moscow in July 1987. He stayed at the National Hotel, in the Lenin Suite, which certainly would have been bugged. There is not much else in the public record to describe his visit, except Trump’s own recollection in The Art of the Deal that Soviet officials were eager for him to build a hotel there. (It never happened.)



Trump returned from Moscow fired up with political ambition. He began the first of a long series of presidential flirtations, which included a flashy trip to New Hampshire. Two months after his Moscow visit, Trump spent almost $100,000 on a series of full-page newspaper ads that published a political manifesto. “An open letter from Donald J. Trump on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves,” as Trump labeled it, launched angry populist charges against the allies that benefited from the umbrella of American military protection. “Why are these nations not paying the United States for the human lives and billions of dollars we are losing to protect their interests?”
This is the person your president picked for his press secretary. Those are members of Putin's government she's embracing while wearing a symbol of communist Soviet oppression:

 

gipper

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The Soviets taking West Germany was a threat to US.

The Russians taking Estonia, is not
Why? Because Estonia is some hundred miles farther from Washington?

Nope. Because estonia is a very small nation and West Germany was a large nation AND closer to France.


Taking West Germany would have put the Soviet Union is a position to dominate the world.


Taking Estonia does nothing to threaten the US.


It is bad policy that we are committed to defend them.
What can you say about Denmark? If the Soviets had attacked Copenhagen, would it be reasonable to defend it?

Yes. Do you need me to explain why?


My point stands. Being Treaty Bound to defend Estonia at the cost of WWIII,

is bad policy.
Of course it is. Our corrupt government shouldn’t do these things with any nation.
 

22lcidw

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There are many questions concerning Trump's inexplicable actions concerning Russia with zero political will to answer them. The republicans don't want to know and the democrats don't want to be seen to have used our intelligence services against him. Perhaps when Trump is no longer relevant in any way we may finally find out just how bad it was.
What actions? Be specific.
You know all the accusations you just spent 5 years fighting. The off the record conversations with Putin. The undeclared Russian agents in his circle. The flat denials of clear Russian interference in the election. The hair on fire efforts to discredit the Steele dossier. The way he was far more hostile to our allies than Putin. The dirty Trump Moscow deal. The Trump tower meeting with Russian agents. The way he treated Ukraine. The way he shamelessly kissed Putin's ass no matter what. The Russians clearly had some sort of leverage over Trump. Why don't you want to know what it was?
You crazy. Just like a rabid Trumper, but don’t know it.
We are dealing with a hostile state that means us harm. Crazy would be just letting them screw with us without repercussions.
No. The danger we face is from our own government. A government that threatens the entire world with extermination. Your failure to recognize this obvious fact does you no favors.
Are you from Russia? You seem to advocating a course of action for America that would favor Putin's expansionist ambitions in Eastern Europe. His tanks would roll tomorrow if he could be certain America and western Europe would stay out of it.
Yeah the truth now means one is a traitor. Please tell me one nation Putin has invaded? Now tell me how many nations the US has invaded. Who wins?

The left has lost their minds. They use to suspect government and power. Now they believe every lying word. WTF!
If you messiah had not spent four years blowing Putin maybe it would be easier to make the case that Putin is not a threat.
What did Trump do with Putin? Russia is not the Soviet Union. That is why Progs do not like them anymore. They love them some Commies. Putin knows first hand what happened to many of his people under Commie rule. He even was a KGB agent. The transition is not an easy one with a nation that is still hurting from the 60 million people killed during the 1930's and 1940's.
 

ESay

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The Soviets taking West Germany was a threat to US.

The Russians taking Estonia, is not
Why? Because Estonia is some hundred miles farther from Washington?

Nope. Because estonia is a very small nation and West Germany was a large nation AND closer to France.


Taking West Germany would have put the Soviet Union is a position to dominate the world.


Taking Estonia does nothing to threaten the US.


It is bad policy that we are committed to defend them.
What can you say about Denmark? If the Soviets had attacked Copenhagen, would it be reasonable to defend it?

Yes. Do you need me to explain why?


My point stands. Being Treaty Bound to defend Estonia at the cost of WWIII,

is bad policy.
No, I dont. I more or less understand what the explanation will be. It is your point of view, that is okay. From my point, I think if you wont defend Estonia, you will end up with Russia near the German border. It will be the matter of time.
 

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