Trump Russian Asset?

Correll

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The Soviets taking West Germany was a threat to US.

The Russians taking Estonia, is not
Why? Because Estonia is some hundred miles farther from Washington?

Nope. Because estonia is a very small nation and West Germany was a large nation AND closer to France.


Taking West Germany would have put the Soviet Union is a position to dominate the world.


Taking Estonia does nothing to threaten the US.


It is bad policy that we are committed to defend them.
What can you say about Denmark? If the Soviets had attacked Copenhagen, would it be reasonable to defend it?

Yes. Do you need me to explain why?


My point stands. Being Treaty Bound to defend Estonia at the cost of WWIII,

is bad policy.
No, I dont. I more or less understand what the explanation will be. It is your point of view, that is okay. From my point, I think if you wont defend Estonia, you will end up with Russia near the German border. It will be the matter of time.


Russia taking Estonian does not mean that they will attack Poland.
 

ESay

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The Soviets taking West Germany was a threat to US.

The Russians taking Estonia, is not
Why? Because Estonia is some hundred miles farther from Washington?

Nope. Because estonia is a very small nation and West Germany was a large nation AND closer to France.


Taking West Germany would have put the Soviet Union is a position to dominate the world.


Taking Estonia does nothing to threaten the US.


It is bad policy that we are committed to defend them.
What can you say about Denmark? If the Soviets had attacked Copenhagen, would it be reasonable to defend it?

Yes. Do you need me to explain why?


My point stands. Being Treaty Bound to defend Estonia at the cost of WWIII,

is bad policy.
No, I dont. I more or less understand what the explanation will be. It is your point of view, that is okay. From my point, I think if you wont defend Estonia, you will end up with Russia near the German border. It will be the matter of time.


Russia taking Estonian does not mean that they will attack Poland.
How can you be sure about that?
 

Correll

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The Soviets taking West Germany was a threat to US.

The Russians taking Estonia, is not
Why? Because Estonia is some hundred miles farther from Washington?

Nope. Because estonia is a very small nation and West Germany was a large nation AND closer to France.


Taking West Germany would have put the Soviet Union is a position to dominate the world.


Taking Estonia does nothing to threaten the US.


It is bad policy that we are committed to defend them.
What can you say about Denmark? If the Soviets had attacked Copenhagen, would it be reasonable to defend it?

Yes. Do you need me to explain why?


My point stands. Being Treaty Bound to defend Estonia at the cost of WWIII,

is bad policy.
No, I dont. I more or less understand what the explanation will be. It is your point of view, that is okay. From my point, I think if you wont defend Estonia, you will end up with Russia near the German border. It will be the matter of time.


Russia taking Estonian does not mean that they will attack Poland.
How can you be sure about that?

1. They have no ideology requiring or justify world dominate or wars of conquest.

2. They do not have a totalitarian system in place to suppress dissent about the costs of wars of conquest.

3. They do not have an attractive ideology that gives them useful 5th columns inside of enemy nations.

4. They do not have the economic or military or political power to threaten a much stronger, relatively speaking Europe.

5. They have a declining population, not a exploding one to fill the army with nearly unlimited canon fodder.
 

ESay

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They have no ideology requiring or justify world dominate or wars of conquest.

2. They do not have a totalitarian system in place to suppress dissent about the costs of wars of conquest
The idea fix of Russian patriots is gathering the so called Russian land and promoting so called Russian world. What exactly the bounds of this world are depends on the view of a certain 'patriot'. See the boundaries of the Russian empire as the max outreach.


They do not have an attractive ideology that gives them useful 5th columns inside of enemy nations.

4. They do not have the economic or military or political power to threaten a much stronger, relatively speaking Europe.

5. They have a declining population, not a exploding one to fill the army with nearly unlimited canon fodder
Yes, and that is why they wont dare to attack Estonia as long as it remains in the Western bloc.
 

Correll

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They have no ideology requiring or justify world dominate or wars of conquest.

2. They do not have a totalitarian system in place to suppress dissent about the costs of wars of conquest
The idea fix of Russian patriots is gathering the so called Russian land and promoting so called Russian world. What exactly the bounds of this world are depends on the view of a certain 'patriot'. See the boundaries of the Russian empire as the max outreach.


They do not have an attractive ideology that gives them useful 5th columns inside of enemy nations.

4. They do not have the economic or military or political power to threaten a much stronger, relatively speaking Europe.

5. They have a declining population, not a exploding one to fill the army with nearly unlimited canon fodder
Yes, and that is why they wont dare to attack Estonia as long as it remains in the Western bloc.


1. Correct. Russian nationalism is a limited ideology. You run out of territories with large russian minorities to "protect", you piss away enough russian lives in the pursuit of a goal, and that factor rapidly diminishes.

2. Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars.
 

ESay

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Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars.
2. Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars
Not only on that. If you want to have the peace, then be prepare for a war.

You know, I think that Europe as a whole and some countries there in particular should decide for themselves what relations with Russia they want to have. And only after that, the US should elaborate the strategy in European matters.
 

Correll

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Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars.
2. Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars
Not only on that. If you want to have the peace, then be prepare for a war.

You know, I think that Europe as a whole and some countries there in particular should decide for themselves what relations with Russia they want to have. And only after that, the US should elaborate the strategy in European matters.

But partially on that. And that is bad policy.



Having a policy that LOOKS like a bluff, raises the possibility of someone calling it.

It made sense in the cold war, that we would fight them over West Germany. And thus, we never had to.


It does NOT make sense that we would fight the Russians over Estonia. That raises teh possibility that someone someday might think that is a bluff and try calling our bluff.


Depending on who is President, at the time, that could work, or that could lead to WWIII.
 

ESay

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Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars.
2. Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars
Not only on that. If you want to have the peace, then be prepare for a war.

You know, I think that Europe as a whole and some countries there in particular should decide for themselves what relations with Russia they want to have. And only after that, the US should elaborate the strategy in European matters.

But partially on that. And that is bad policy.



Having a policy that LOOKS like a bluff, raises the possibility of someone calling it.

It made sense in the cold war, that we would fight them over West Germany. And thus, we never had to.


It does NOT make sense that we would fight the Russians over Estonia. That raises teh possibility that someone someday might think that is a bluff and try calling our bluff.


Depending on who is President, at the time, that could work, or that could lead to WWIII.
It all depends on the stance of major European countries. If they will stand united to protect Estonia, then I think it won't be just a bluff.

But I can hardly see the US rushing to defend Estonia while some European majors realizing multi billion contracts with Russia.
 

Correll

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Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars.
2. Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars
Not only on that. If you want to have the peace, then be prepare for a war.

You know, I think that Europe as a whole and some countries there in particular should decide for themselves what relations with Russia they want to have. And only after that, the US should elaborate the strategy in European matters.

But partially on that. And that is bad policy.



Having a policy that LOOKS like a bluff, raises the possibility of someone calling it.

It made sense in the cold war, that we would fight them over West Germany. And thus, we never had to.


It does NOT make sense that we would fight the Russians over Estonia. That raises teh possibility that someone someday might think that is a bluff and try calling our bluff.


Depending on who is President, at the time, that could work, or that could lead to WWIII.
It all depends on the stance of major European countries. If they will stand united to protect Estonia, then I think it won't be just a bluff.

But I can hardly see the US rushing to defend Estonia while some European majors realizing multi billion contracts with Russia.


Great. So, Some Putin successor decides it is a bluff because the "eruopean majors are realizing multi billion contracts wtih Russia" and walks into Estonia.


But, the leaders of the European nations decide they can make even more money after regime change, and BOOM, we have a WORLD WAR.
 

ESay

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Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars.
2. Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars
Not only on that. If you want to have the peace, then be prepare for a war.

You know, I think that Europe as a whole and some countries there in particular should decide for themselves what relations with Russia they want to have. And only after that, the US should elaborate the strategy in European matters.

But partially on that. And that is bad policy.



Having a policy that LOOKS like a bluff, raises the possibility of someone calling it.

It made sense in the cold war, that we would fight them over West Germany. And thus, we never had to.


It does NOT make sense that we would fight the Russians over Estonia. That raises teh possibility that someone someday might think that is a bluff and try calling our bluff.


Depending on who is President, at the time, that could work, or that could lead to WWIII.
It all depends on the stance of major European countries. If they will stand united to protect Estonia, then I think it won't be just a bluff.

But I can hardly see the US rushing to defend Estonia while some European majors realizing multi billion contracts with Russia.


Great. So, Some Putin successor decides it is a bluff because the "eruopean majors are realizing multi billion contracts wtih Russia" and walks into Estonia.


But, the leaders of the European nations decide they can make even more money after regime change, and BOOM, we have a WORLD WAR.
Why? These leaders will be cooperating with Russia and the US will just mind their own business. If the Europeans dont want to fight (despite their obligations) why should the Americans then?
 

Correll

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Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars.
2. Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars
Not only on that. If you want to have the peace, then be prepare for a war.

You know, I think that Europe as a whole and some countries there in particular should decide for themselves what relations with Russia they want to have. And only after that, the US should elaborate the strategy in European matters.

But partially on that. And that is bad policy.



Having a policy that LOOKS like a bluff, raises the possibility of someone calling it.

It made sense in the cold war, that we would fight them over West Germany. And thus, we never had to.


It does NOT make sense that we would fight the Russians over Estonia. That raises teh possibility that someone someday might think that is a bluff and try calling our bluff.


Depending on who is President, at the time, that could work, or that could lead to WWIII.
It all depends on the stance of major European countries. If they will stand united to protect Estonia, then I think it won't be just a bluff.

But I can hardly see the US rushing to defend Estonia while some European majors realizing multi billion contracts with Russia.


Great. So, Some Putin successor decides it is a bluff because the "eruopean majors are realizing multi billion contracts wtih Russia" and walks into Estonia.


But, the leaders of the European nations decide they can make even more money after regime change, and BOOM, we have a WORLD WAR.
Why? These leaders will be cooperating with Russia and the US will just mind their own business. If the Europeans dont want to fight (despite their obligations) why should the Americans then?

If Russia invades a nato country, teh US is fighting.

If you don't want to fight over Estonia, then we need to leave nato immediately.
 

ESay

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Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars.
2. Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars
Not only on that. If you want to have the peace, then be prepare for a war.

You know, I think that Europe as a whole and some countries there in particular should decide for themselves what relations with Russia they want to have. And only after that, the US should elaborate the strategy in European matters.

But partially on that. And that is bad policy.



Having a policy that LOOKS like a bluff, raises the possibility of someone calling it.

It made sense in the cold war, that we would fight them over West Germany. And thus, we never had to.


It does NOT make sense that we would fight the Russians over Estonia. That raises teh possibility that someone someday might think that is a bluff and try calling our bluff.


Depending on who is President, at the time, that could work, or that could lead to WWIII.
It all depends on the stance of major European countries. If they will stand united to protect Estonia, then I think it won't be just a bluff.

But I can hardly see the US rushing to defend Estonia while some European majors realizing multi billion contracts with Russia.


Great. So, Some Putin successor decides it is a bluff because the "eruopean majors are realizing multi billion contracts wtih Russia" and walks into Estonia.


But, the leaders of the European nations decide they can make even more money after regime change, and BOOM, we have a WORLD WAR.
Why? These leaders will be cooperating with Russia and the US will just mind their own business. If the Europeans dont want to fight (despite their obligations) why should the Americans then?

If Russia invades a nato country, teh US is fighting.

If you don't want to fight over Estonia, then we need to leave nato immediately.
The US should be fighting alongside with their European allies. The European are also obliged to defend a NATO member, arent they?

I am not an American citizen, so it isnt up for me to decide. But if I were, I would want to hear an explanation why the Americans should fight while some Europeans are counting money from Russia.
 

Correll

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Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars.
2. Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars
Not only on that. If you want to have the peace, then be prepare for a war.

You know, I think that Europe as a whole and some countries there in particular should decide for themselves what relations with Russia they want to have. And only after that, the US should elaborate the strategy in European matters.

But partially on that. And that is bad policy.



Having a policy that LOOKS like a bluff, raises the possibility of someone calling it.

It made sense in the cold war, that we would fight them over West Germany. And thus, we never had to.


It does NOT make sense that we would fight the Russians over Estonia. That raises teh possibility that someone someday might think that is a bluff and try calling our bluff.


Depending on who is President, at the time, that could work, or that could lead to WWIII.
It all depends on the stance of major European countries. If they will stand united to protect Estonia, then I think it won't be just a bluff.

But I can hardly see the US rushing to defend Estonia while some European majors realizing multi billion contracts with Russia.


Great. So, Some Putin successor decides it is a bluff because the "eruopean majors are realizing multi billion contracts wtih Russia" and walks into Estonia.


But, the leaders of the European nations decide they can make even more money after regime change, and BOOM, we have a WORLD WAR.
Why? These leaders will be cooperating with Russia and the US will just mind their own business. If the Europeans dont want to fight (despite their obligations) why should the Americans then?

If Russia invades a nato country, teh US is fighting.

If you don't want to fight over Estonia, then we need to leave nato immediately.
The US should be fighting alongside with their European allies. The European are also obliged to defend a NATO member, arent they?

I am not an American citizen, so it isnt up for me to decide. But if I were, I would want to hear an explanation why the Americans should fight while some Europeans are counting money from Russia.


I'm sure that the european nations would fight too, in this scenario. But I don't want to fight a war with Russia.


We have no conflict of interests with Russia. Russia is not a threat to US.


The Cold War is over. Let's have peace.
 

ESay

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Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars.
2. Sounds like you are counting on that. That makes the promise a bluff. Bluffs are dangerous. They can lead to wars
Not only on that. If you want to have the peace, then be prepare for a war.

You know, I think that Europe as a whole and some countries there in particular should decide for themselves what relations with Russia they want to have. And only after that, the US should elaborate the strategy in European matters.

But partially on that. And that is bad policy.



Having a policy that LOOKS like a bluff, raises the possibility of someone calling it.

It made sense in the cold war, that we would fight them over West Germany. And thus, we never had to.


It does NOT make sense that we would fight the Russians over Estonia. That raises teh possibility that someone someday might think that is a bluff and try calling our bluff.


Depending on who is President, at the time, that could work, or that could lead to WWIII.
It all depends on the stance of major European countries. If they will stand united to protect Estonia, then I think it won't be just a bluff.

But I can hardly see the US rushing to defend Estonia while some European majors realizing multi billion contracts with Russia.


Great. So, Some Putin successor decides it is a bluff because the "eruopean majors are realizing multi billion contracts wtih Russia" and walks into Estonia.


But, the leaders of the European nations decide they can make even more money after regime change, and BOOM, we have a WORLD WAR.
Why? These leaders will be cooperating with Russia and the US will just mind their own business. If the Europeans dont want to fight (despite their obligations) why should the Americans then?

If Russia invades a nato country, teh US is fighting.

If you don't want to fight over Estonia, then we need to leave nato immediately.
The US should be fighting alongside with their European allies. The European are also obliged to defend a NATO member, arent they?

I am not an American citizen, so it isnt up for me to decide. But if I were, I would want to hear an explanation why the Americans should fight while some Europeans are counting money from Russia.


I'm sure that the european nations would fight too, in this scenario. But I don't want to fight a war with Russia.


We have no conflict of interests with Russia. Russia is not a threat to US.


The Cold War is over. Let's have peace.
Okay. That is your point of view. I respect it.
 

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