Trump is correct in Trump v. Barbara

[johnwk]

Under common law, which we were following prior to the 14th for the most part, anyone other than diplomats and enemies born on British or American soil, were subjects to the king.... we as the USA continued this practice ...only anyone born here subject to our laws (under our jurisdiction)....were citizens....with the exceptions of diplomats and enemies....and slaves.

The 14th just added slaves.... to the....
everyone else born by foreigners on our soil as citizens....

As you said, there was not the concept of being an illegal....at the time of the 14th.
And this is why you can not change the meaning of ALL PERSONS to not include illegal immigrants, and need an amendment to change it.

Did you intentionally avoid the qualifier ". . . and subject to the jurisdiction thereof . . . "?

 

[EdwinAMartin]

The fact is, no S.C. opinion, nor have the American people or their representatives, knowingly, willing and intentionally, have granted U.S. birthright citizenship to offspring of illegal entrant foreign nationals born on American soil.

^^^This.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Can't show you something that does not exist. But, if it does exist, feel free to post your documentation.

Sure it should exist, if it's real. They'd have said "these people aren't included in this."

If it DOESN'T EXIST, then your argument has just DIED because then there's nothing to say these people are excluded.

We know who is excluded, BECAUSE THEY WROTE WHO IS EXCLUDED.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Did you intentionally avoid the qualifier ". . . and subject to the jurisdiction thereof . . . "?

Well....

"and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" means:

" being bound by U.S. law and owing allegiance to the United States."

What Does Subject to the Jurisdiction Thereof Mean?

The 14th Amendment’s jurisdiction clause determines who qualifies for birthright citizenship — and courts have been interpreting it since 1898.

legalclarity.org

What does "owning allegiance to" mean?

owe-allegiance - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms - Vocab Dictionary

owe-allegiance Definition, Meaning & Synonyms

vocabdictionary.com

"To owe allegiance means to be loyal or committed to a particular group, country, or authority."

So, if an American citizen isn't loyal to the US, or isn't committed to the US, does that mean their child isn't an American citizen?

What does being "committed to the US" mean?

It's rather wishy washy.

An illegal immigrant can be more committed to the US than a US citizen.

Being bound by US law.... that's basically anyone who is in the US except foreign diplomats. Any illegal immigrant is subject to US law.

In Dred Scott, the Supreme Court said that black people COULD NOT become citizens of the US because of the very arguments you are using.

"The question is simply this: Can a negro, whose ancestors were imported into this country, and sold as slaves, become a member of the political community formed and brought into existence by the Constitution of the United States, and as such become entitled to all of the rights, and privileges, and immunities, guarantied [sic] by that instrument to the citizen?"

Argument 1 is that the Constitution was never designed to give black people citizenship, so it can never give them citizenship. The INTENT is the most important thing.

Argument 2 is that they were not recognized as US citizens, so their children CANNOT be considered US citizens.

Your arguments seem to be that the intent of the 14th Amendment does not include those who are illegal immigrants and that they were not recognized as US citizens (as they're illegal) therefore their children CANNOT be considered US citizens.

So, by using the very arguments (more or less) of a case that literally caused the US to make the 14th Amendment, you're literally digging yourself a hole.

The 14th Amendment is contrary to Dred Scott. Dred Scott says this, therefore the 14th Amendment says the opposite.

 

[johnwk]

^^^This.

It is really disturbing that there are those in the thread who are trying to shoehorn into the meaning of the 14th Amendment the priceless privilege of birthright citizenship being granted to the offspring of illegal entrant foreign nationals who are born on American soil. And the reason why this is so disturbing is, our system of law requires consent of the governed, and yet, there is not a shred of evidence to be found during the crafting of the 14th Amendment to confirm or reject the people knowingly, willingly and intentionally sought to bestow natural-born citizenship upon the offspring of foreign nationals who have shown their hostility toward the United States and its laws upon their illegal entry into the United States.

The bottom line is, if a majority of our unelected Supreme Court members hand down an opinion in Trump vs Barbara which effectively creates a new identifiable group of persons as natural born U. S. citizens, they will have unlawfully exercised a legislative policy making power which is, by the terms of our Constitution, placed in the people's hands under Article V, or in their elected representatives hands, namely Congress or their elected President.

And, in regard to such an attempt by our unelected Supreme Court members exercising policy making authority, Chief Justice Warren Burger, wrote in 1982:


"The Constitution does not constitute us as ‘Platonic Guardians’ nor does it vest in this Court the authority to strike down laws because they do not meet our standards of desirable social policy, ‘wisdom,’ or ‘common sense.’ ... We trespass on the assigned function of the political branches under our structure of limited and separated powers when we assume a policymaking role".