Trump Deal - details, reactions and development on the ground

[Coyote]

Coyote

Thoughts? This deal *should* meet your objectives for solving the conflict, no?

I see positives but have not read it yet.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Trump's fake 'peace plan' is permanent apartheid for Palestine

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Trump's fake 'peace plan' is permanent apartheid for Palestine

The deals will just keep getting worse and worse for the Palestinian Arabs as the years go on. So they should grab this one very quickly.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Trump's fake 'peace plan' is permanent apartheid for Palestine

The deals will just keep getting worse and worse for the Palestinian Arabs as the years go on. So they should grab this one very quickly.

Get your apartheid now. Limited time offer.

 

[Hollie]

Get your apartheid now. Limited time offer.

The usual pointless spam.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Get your apartheid now. Limited time offer.

The usual pointless spam.

Fight pointless with pointless.

 

[Shusha]

Coyote

Thoughts? This deal *should* meet your objectives for solving the conflict, no?

I am conflicted. The devil is in the details and this was put together by Israel and the US excluding the palestinians. Israel seems to get everything they want. What exactly are the pals getting in terms of what they want? I was listening to an informative set of interviews on this morning on BBC world. I am on my phone and can't download it at the moment, but will later.

One point made was Israel can annex Arab villages to Palestine. What exactly does that mean? Arab Israeli's by far prefer their Israeli citizenship. They chose, they are well integrated. Does this mean forcing people to lose their citizenship? Shouldn't the people affected have some say?

There are some very, very good details for the Palestinians in this Vision. They get everything they want except the ability to destroy Israel, IMO.

I've read the entire document. I'm not sure what you mean by "Israel can annex Arab villages to Palestine". The Vision states that 97% of Israelis will be in Israeli territory. And 97% of Arab Palestinians will be in Palestinian territory.

The remaining Arab Palestinians will be in enclaves surrounded by Israeli territory, but will be able to choose to remain in place or to move if they so wish. They will be citizens of Palestine and fully subject to Palestinian sovereignty, including zoning, planning, and infrastructure within their enclaves. They will have direct access to the State of Palestine.

The remaining Israelis will be in enclaves surrounded by Palestine territory, but will be able to choose to remain in place or move if they so wish. They will be citizens of Israel and fully subject to Israeli sovereignty, including zoning, planning and infrastructure within their enclaves. They will have direct access to the State of Israel.

There is specific language that neither group will be discriminated against.

The Vision is very clear, in all areas, that the individuals will have choice. Good details.


(Page 12 for those wanting to look it up.)

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Get your apartheid now. Limited time offer.

The usual pointless spam.

Fight pointless with pointless.

My point wasn't pointless. The Palestinians are looking for a utopian deal that just doesn't exist. In the language of Arabic, there is no word corresponding to the English "compromise" or the Hebrew "peshara." The world is moving along without them. Several Gulf Arab states are already normalizing relations with Israel. Israel has become a high-tech start-up nation. The Palestinians still herd sheep and donkeys. If they can't get their act together soon, they will eventually lose everything.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Coyote

Thoughts? This deal *should* meet your objectives for solving the conflict, no?

I am conflicted. The devil is in the details and this was put together by Israel and the US excluding the palestinians. Israel seems to get everything they want. What exactly are the pals getting in terms of what they want? I was listening to an informative set of interviews on this morning on BBC world. I am on my phone and can't download it at the moment, but will later.

One point made was Israel can annex Arab villages to Palestine. What exactly does that mean? Arab Israeli's by far prefer their Israeli citizenship. They chose, they are well integrated. Does this mean forcing people to lose their citizenship? Shouldn't the people affected have some say?

There are some very, very good details for the Palestinians in this Vision. They get everything they want except the ability to destroy Israel, IMO.

I've read the entire document. I'm not sure what you mean by "Israel can annex Arab villages to Palestine". The Vision states that 97% of Israelis will be in Israeli territory. And 97% of Arab Palestinians will be in Palestinian territory.

The remaining Arab Palestinians will be in enclaves surrounded by Israeli territory, but will be able to choose to remain in place or to move if they so wish. They will be citizens of Palestine and fully subject to Palestinian sovereignty, including zoning, planning, and infrastructure within their enclaves. They will have direct access to the State of Palestine.

The remaining Israelis will be in enclaves surrounded by Palestine territory, but will be able to choose to remain in place or move if they so wish. They will be citizens of Israel and fully subject to Israeli sovereignty, including zoning, planning and infrastructure within their enclaves. They will have direct access to the State of Israel.

There is specific language that neither group will be discriminated against.

The Vision is very clear, in all areas, that the individuals will have choice. Good details.


(Page 12 for those wanting to look it up.)

What about the holy sites (like the Western Wall and the Tombs of Abraham, Rachel and Joseph)?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

With a big barbed wire fence around it and guard observation towers.

Another fence/wall that we will be paying for too....

Since part of this deal is us sending over 50 billion to Palestine....sending 50 billion to terrorists?? why?? for some peace deal....how unamerican!!!

Remember when Trumpers were so triggered by Obama sending not even 1% of that amount to Iran for AN ACTUAL PEACE DEAL THAT WAS WORKING??

Now...I hope folks can put their partisan hackery to the side and get a 2-state solution done....hope people would have done this sooner -- back when it was a dem trying to get a 2-state solution done instead of demonizing it...

and you will find more dems on board with Trump getting a real 2-state solution done as long as it is not a repeat of the North Korea debacle...

Most, if not all, of that proposed 50 billion dollars will be coming from the oil rich Arab Gulf states.

 

[Hollie]

With a big barbed wire fence around it and guard observation towers.

Another fence/wall that we will be paying for too....

Since part of this deal is us sending over 50 billion to Palestine....sending 50 billion to terrorists?? why?? for some peace deal....how unamerican!!!

Remember when Trumpers were so triggered by Obama sending not even 1% of that amount to Iran for AN ACTUAL PEACE DEAL THAT WAS WORKING??

Now...I hope folks can put their partisan hackery to the side and get a 2-state solution done....hope people would have done this sooner -- back when it was a dem trying to get a 2-state solution done instead of demonizing it...

and you will find more dems on board with Trump getting a real 2-state solution done as long as it is not a repeat of the North Korea debacle...

Most, if not all, of that proposed 50 billion dollars will be coming from the oil rich Arab Gulf states.

While that may be the plan, I have real doubts that Gulf Arabs will dig deep for the Pals. They havent done so historically and with Hamas aligning so closely with Iran, there seems to be real resentment by the Gulf states toward the Pal leadership.

 

[2aguy]

So.......the Arab States like the Peace plan...the Peace plan gives the Palestinians just about everything they want.....

And they say no.

For those to silly to understand...do you finally see that the Palestinians are the problem, not Israel?

HISTORIC: Arab States Welcome Trump’s Israeli-Palestinian Peace Plan

 

[USAF 2023]

Get your apartheid now. Limited time offer.

The usual pointless spam.

That’s all he has. Let the Palestinians act like human beings and in time those barriers will come down
However he has actually admitted that the long term goal is the Destruction of Israel yet he spouts “ International Law”

 

[USAF 2023]

Coyote

Thoughts? This deal *should* meet your objectives for solving the conflict, no?

I am conflicted. The devil is in the details and this was put together by Israel and the US excluding the palestinians. Israel seems to get everything they want. What exactly are the pals getting in terms of what they want? I was listening to an informative set of interviews on this morning on BBC world. I am on my phone and can't download it at the moment, but will later.

One point made was Israel can annex Arab villages to Palestine. What exactly does that mean? Arab Israeli's by far prefer their Israeli citizenship. They chose, they are well integrated. Does this mean forcing people to lose their citizenship? Shouldn't the people affected have some say?

There are some very, very good details for the Palestinians in this Vision. They get everything they want except the ability to destroy Israel, IMO.

I've read the entire document. I'm not sure what you mean by "Israel can annex Arab villages to Palestine". The Vision states that 97% of Israelis will be in Israeli territory. And 97% of Arab Palestinians will be in Palestinian territory.

The remaining Arab Palestinians will be in enclaves surrounded by Israeli territory, but will be able to choose to remain in place or to move if they so wish. They will be citizens of Palestine and fully subject to Palestinian sovereignty, including zoning, planning, and infrastructure within their enclaves. They will have direct access to the State of Palestine.

The remaining Israelis will be in enclaves surrounded by Palestine territory, but will be able to choose to remain in place or move if they so wish. They will be citizens of Israel and fully subject to Israeli sovereignty, including zoning, planning and infrastructure within their enclaves. They will have direct access to the State of Israel.

There is specific language that neither group will be discriminated against.

The Vision is very clear, in all areas, that the individuals will have choice. Good details.


(Page 12 for those wanting to look it up.)

What about the holy sites (like the Western Wall and the Tombs of Abraham, Rachel and Joseph)?

If the Palestinians had their way the Israelis would have no rights to any of them. To that I say”. NEVER AGAIN “

 

[Shusha]

What about the holy sites (like the Western Wall and the Tombs of Abraham, Rachel and Joseph)?

All of the Old City and the Tomb of the Patriarchs remain under Israeli sovereignty. (Not sure about other sites).

The Jordan/Israel status quo for the Temple Mount remains in place.

Freedom of access and prayer (!) to be guaranteed at all holy sites for all peoples, with consideration to special holidays and celebrations for each faith.

Specific language stating that all people be permitted to pray on the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif.

A "world-class" Muslim Tourist Zone outside Jerusalem with fast-track, easy access to the Muslim shrines and the Old City.

A joint tourism development agency.


(pages 14 and 16, mostly)

 

[USAF 2023]

What about the holy sites (like the Western Wall and the Tombs of Abraham, Rachel and Joseph)?

All of the Old City and the Tomb of the Patriarchs remain under Israeli sovereignty. (Not sure about other sites).

The Jordan/Israel status quo for the Temple Mount remains in place.

Freedom of access and prayer (!) to be guaranteed at all holy sites for all peoples, with consideration to special holidays and celebrations for each faith.

Specific language stating that all people be permitted to pray on the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif.

A "world-class" Muslim Tourist Zone outside Jerusalem with fast-track, easy access to the Muslim shrines and the Old City.

A joint tourism development agency.


(pages 14 and 16, mostly)

Unlike their Savage Neighbors

Muslims chant about killing Jews outside Jerusalem’s Temple Mount

 

[Litwin]

A great move by the President. When the Palestinians reject the plan, it will demonstrate to the world they have no intention of ever living peacefully with Jews.

"When the Palestinians reject the plan, it will demonstrate to the world they have no intention of ever living peacefully with Jews"

we have it already :

World leaders react to Trump's Middle East plan

Pakistan
Pakistan's foreign ministry said the country consistently backs a two-state solution, as enshrined in the relevant Security Council and General Assembly Resolutions.

"Pakistan continues to support a just and lasting solution of the Palestinian issue, through dialogue and negotiations, that leads to the realization of the legitimate rights of the Palestinians, including the right of self-determination," it said in a statement.

"We renew our call for the establishment of a viable, independent and contiguous State of Palestine, on the basis of internationally-agreed parameters, the pre-1967 borders, and with Al-Quds Al-Sharif [Jerusalem] as its capital."

Turkey
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the proposal "will not serve peace and resolution" in the region, calling it "a plan to ignore the rights of the Palestinians and legitimise Israel's occupation".

"Jerusalem is sacred to Muslims. The plan to give Jerusalem to Israel can never be accepted," he told reporters on Wednesday, while returning from a plane trip to Senegal.

Earlier, Turkey's foreign ministry described it as an "annexation plan that aims to kill the two-state solution and seize Palestinian lands", calling it "stillborn".

The Palestinian people and their lands "cannot be bought," the ministry said in a statement.

Qatar
Qatar said it welcomed efforts to broker peace but warned that was unattainable without concessions to the Palestinians.

A statement carried by state-run Qatar News Agency said the country "welcomes all efforts aiming towards a longstanding and just peace in the occupied Palestinian territories". It said Qatar "appreciates the endeavours of President Trump and the current US administration to find solutions for the Palestinian-Israeli conflict", but added that "all solutions should be consistent with international law and the relevant UN resolutions".

"All Arab states, through the Arab League, have adopted in 2002 the Arab Peace Initiative, which articulated a set of principles conducive to a just peace," the statement said.

"The State of Qatar notes in this context that peace cannot be sustainable if Palestinians' rights in their sovereign state within the 1967 borders, including East Jerusalem, and the right of return are not preserved."

UAE
Yousef al-Otaiba, the United Arab Emirates' ambassador to Washington, said the plan "offers an important starting point for a return to negotiations within a US-led international framework".

"The only way to guarantee a lasting solution is to reach an agreement between all concerned parties," al-Otaiba said in a statement on Tuesday.

"The UAE believes that Palestinians and Israelis can achieve lasting peace and genuine coexistence with the support of the international community."

Jordan
Jordan warned against "annexation of Palestinian lands" with the kingdom's foreign minister warning against the "dangerous consequences of unilateral Israeli measures that aim to impose new realities on the ground".

Ayman Safadi called for direct negotiations that solve all final status issues in a comprehensive solution under established terms of reference, the Arab peace initiative and international law.

Establishment of a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, based on a two-state solution, is the only path to comprehensive and lasting peace, Safadi said in a statement.

"Jordan supports every genuine effort aimed at achieving just and comprehensive peace that people will accept," he said.

Dozens of protesters gathered outside the US embassy in Amman to protest Trump's plan, shouting slogans including "No to normalisation" and "We will not recognise Israel".

United Nations
United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, according to his spokesperson Stephane Dujarric, said the UN supports two states living in peace and security within recognised borders, based on the pre-1967 borders.

"The United Nations remains committed to supporting Palestinians and Israelis to resolve the conflict on the basis of United Nations resolutions, international law and bilateral agreements and realizing the vision of two States - Israel and Palestine - living side by side in peace and security within recognized borders, on the basis of the pre-1967 lines."

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Trump is the problem.The next pres will have to come in and clear up this mess.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Trump is the problem.

In what way?

 

[M14 Shooter]

United Nations
United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, according to his spokesperson Stephane Dujarric, said the UN supports two states living in peace and security within recognised borders, based on the pre-1967 borders.

"The United Nations remains committed to supporting Palestinians and Israelis to resolve the conflict on the basis of United Nations resolutions, international law and bilateral agreements and realizing the vision of two States - Israel and Palestine - living side by side in peace and security within recognized borders, on the basis of the pre-1967 lines."

As the parties in question resolved the controversy under international law in 1994, the UN has no relevance here.