Trinity, there is not one that is all 3

[AmericanFirst]

Irrelevant. The point is that in saying one must either accept or reject the entire thing, you have presented an irrational argument without foundation.

Talking about Gods words and the bible being Gods word is irrelevant? That is a load of BS.

Talking about why the Bible is considered by some to be God's word is irrelevant to your claim that it is all or nothing. That claim could be false. If it is, then some parts of the Bible could still be true -- just as many purely human statements are true. One is under no obligation whatever to accept or reject the entire thing.

The whole Bible is truth. If you believe otherwise you need to reexamine your faith, if you have any.

 

[AmericanFirst]

God gave him a brain and he is using it.

No, he quite obviously isn't. Neither are you.

Yes I am, problem is you think too highly of yourself thinking you know better than God, you do not.

 

[Dragon]

God gave him a brain and he is using it.

No, he quite obviously isn't. Neither are you.

Yes I am, problem is you think too highly of yourself thinking you know better than God, you do not.

As I said before, I don't think I'm smarter than God. I just think I'm smarter than you. For that reason, I refuse to take your word for it as to what God is. For the same reason, I refuse to take the word of any authority you point me to. I am better able than you are to answer these questions, both as to what God is, and as to what is a proper authority to consult.

God is certainly smarter than I am and he -- NOT you -- may correct any errors that I make. Indeed, he has often done so. That is one reason you and I disagree.

 

[AmericanFirst]

No, he quite obviously isn't. Neither are you.

Yes I am, problem is you think too highly of yourself thinking you know better than God, you do not.

As I said before, I don't think I'm smarter than God. I just think I'm smarter than you. For that reason, I refuse to take your word for it as to what God is. For the same reason, I refuse to take the word of any authority you point me to. I am better able than you are to answer these questions, both as to what God is, and as to what is a proper authority to consult.

God is certainly smarter than I am and he -- NOT you -- may correct any errors that I make. Indeed, he has often done so. That is one reason you and I disagree.

I think God is what the Bible, his word, says he is. If you do not believe the Bible you are refusing God's authoritative word. You don't have to take my word for it, or God's for that matter, but you will be judged on God's word not mine. Good luck.

 

[Dragon]

I think God is what the Bible, his word, says he is. If you do not believe the Bible you are refusing God's authoritative word.

No, I'm rejecting YOUR word as to what IS God's authoritative word. I believe you are wrong. I believe, further, that you have never seriously given the matter any thought, but are merely believing what you have been told without question.

It isn't God's word I'm questioning here. It's yours.

You don't have to take my word for it, or God's for that matter

I don't have to take your word, true. I do, however, have to take God's. In fact, that's a good test of whether it really is God's word: if it is, it cannot be disbelieved.

 

[AmericanFirst]

I think God is what the Bible, his word, says he is. If you do not believe the Bible you are refusing God's authoritative word.

No, I'm rejecting YOUR word as to what IS God's authoritative word. I believe you are wrong. I believe, further, that you have never seriously given the matter any thought, but are merely believing what you have been told without question.

It isn't God's word I'm questioning here. It's yours.

You don't have to take my word for it, or God's for that matter

I don't have to take your word, true. I do, however, have to take God's. In fact, that's a good test of whether it really is God's word: if it is, it cannot be disbelieved.

Then you do believe the Bible is God's word? Good. We can disagree then as long as you believe that.

 

[tyroneweaver]

The belief that there is a Holy Trinity, that encompasses God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit as one single being is NOT in the Bible. This is a false teaching.

Read John in any version you wish ( I use the King James Version). Through out John Jesus himself repeatedly describes himself as the SON of God, as NOT God, and that God uses the Holy Spirit. He states he is NOT God, but rather his Son. That everything he does he does because his father lets him do it. He says it in NUMEROUS passages in John, in his own words.

Wrong. The Bible does support, and say, there is a Holy Trinity. You need to read the whole Bible. But then the book of John, contrary to your statement, supports the Holy Trinity. Try again.

I read the New Testament regularly I have yet to find this doctrine of the trinity as defined in the creeds of nicea, or anthanasia. That you filter John through.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The belief that there is a Holy Trinity, that encompasses God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit as one single being is NOT in the Bible. This is a false teaching.

Read John in any version you wish ( I use the King James Version). Through out John Jesus himself repeatedly describes himself as the SON of God, as NOT God, and that God uses the Holy Spirit. He states he is NOT God, but rather his Son. That everything he does he does because his father lets him do it. He says it in NUMEROUS passages in John, in his own words.

Wrong. The Bible does support, and say, there is a Holy Trinity. You need to read the whole Bible. But then the book of John, contrary to your statement, supports the Holy Trinity. Try again.

I read the New Testament regularly I have yet to find this doctrine of the trinity as defined in the creeds of nicea, or anthanasia. That you filter John through.

John 1:1 and John 1:14 doesn't get anymore clear'er about the subject.

 

[The Professor]

The belief that there is a Holy Trinity, that encompasses God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit as one single being is NOT in the Bible. This is a false teaching.

Read John in any version you wish ( I use the King James Version). Through out John Jesus himself repeatedly describes himself as the SON of God, as NOT God, and that God uses the Holy Spirit. He states he is NOT God, but rather his Son. That everything he does he does because his father lets him do it. He says it in NUMEROUS passages in John, in his own words.

Wrong. The Bible does support, and say, there is a Holy Trinity. You need to read the whole Bible. But then the book of John, contrary to your statement, supports the Holy Trinity. Try again.

I read the New Testament regularly I have yet to find this doctrine of the trinity as defined in the creeds of nicea, or anthanasia. That you filter John through.

Christians who believe in the Doctrine of the Trinity cite 1 John 5:7 as it appears in some – but not all - versions of the Bible. Here are several Biblical interpretations which tend to support the doctrine:

“7. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one” (KJV, emphasis my own).

“7. So there are three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One; 8. and there are three witnesses on the earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree [are in unison; their testimony coincides]” (Amplified Bible, emphasis my own).

However, other versions of the Bible eliminate that part of verse 7 which says “these three are one” thus changing the entire meaning of the Passage. Here are just a few examples:

“7. There are three witnesses: 8. the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and all three give the same testimony” (Good News Translation).

“7. So there are three witnesses that tell us about Jesus: 8. the Spirit, the water, and the blood. These three witnesses agree” (Easy-to-Read Version).

“7. For there are three that testify: 8. the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement” (NIV).

“7. So we have these three witnesses— 8. the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and all three agree” (New Living Translation).

“7. For there are three that testify: 8. the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement” (New American Standard Bible).

Christians may disagree on what the Bible says; however, they totally believe in the Bible as they interpret it. It is undeniable that there is a verse in the KJV which, if taken literally, supports the concept of the Divine Trinity. Now, if the verse is taken in context of the entire Bible, I don't believe it establishes that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one, or even equal in any way. However, that is my personal belief and others will have a different opinion. When it comes to the Bible, opinions are clouded by (some would say illuminated by) that passionate and dominating thing called faith.

 

[Dragon]

Then you do believe the Bible is God's word? Good. We can disagree then as long as you believe that.

No, I absolutely and emphatically do NOT believe that.

God speaks in the still, small voice in the heart. He has no other word than that.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Then you do believe the Bible is God's word? Good. We can disagree then as long as you believe that.

No, I absolutely and emphatically do NOT believe that.

God speaks in the still, small voice in the heart. He has no other word than that.

Your avi suits your very well.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Then you do believe the Bible is God's word? Good. We can disagree then as long as you believe that.

No, I absolutely and emphatically do NOT believe that.

God speaks in the still, small voice in the heart. He has no other word than that.

If God speaks through the small voice in the heart, would it be feasible that he also spoke to the heart of the ones who scribe the bible? What God wanted had to be put down on paper for future generations to decide for themselves if they were to believe him him or not.

 

[Dragon]

Then you do believe the Bible is God's word? Good. We can disagree then as long as you believe that.

No, I absolutely and emphatically do NOT believe that.

God speaks in the still, small voice in the heart. He has no other word than that.

Your avi suits your very well.

Oh, I agree.

Dragon, Power Animal, Symbol of Transformation, Infinity, Wisdom

"The dragons medicine includes change and transformation, wisodm, infinity, longevity and movement through space, supernatural. . . . Dragon's power is that of shedding its skin and coming out as a new, transformed being. The dragon gives provides us with fierce protection and possesses inherent magic, adding extra power to any magic you may perform. Dragon represents the supernatural and infinite self."

Or see my poem, Hymn to the Dragon Spirit, posted over on Sky Dancer's non-Christian religions thread.

That some Christians like yourself have turned the dragon into a symbol of evil merely shows forth yet again Christian fear of wisdom and insight, and terror of using their own minds.

 

[AmericanFirst]

No, I absolutely and emphatically do NOT believe that.

God speaks in the still, small voice in the heart. He has no other word than that.

Your avi suits your very well.

Oh, I agree.

Dragon, Power Animal, Symbol of Transformation, Infinity, Wisdom

"The dragons medicine includes change and transformation, wisodm, infinity, longevity and movement through space, supernatural. . . . Dragon's power is that of shedding its skin and coming out as a new, transformed being. The dragon gives provides us with fierce protection and possesses inherent magic, adding extra power to any magic you may perform. Dragon represents the supernatural and infinite self."

Or see my poem, Hymn to the Dragon Spirit, posted over on Sky Dancer's non-Christian religions thread.

That some Christians like yourself have turned the dragon into a symbol of evil merely shows forth yet again Christian fear of wisdom and insight, and terror of using their own minds.

The Bible identifies satan as the dragon of old.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The belief that there is a Holy Trinity, that encompasses God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit as one single being is NOT in the Bible. This is a false teaching.

Read John in any version you wish ( I use the King James Version). Through out John Jesus himself repeatedly describes himself as the SON of God, as NOT God, and that God uses the Holy Spirit. He states he is NOT God, but rather his Son. That everything he does he does because his father lets him do it. He says it in NUMEROUS passages in John, in his own words.

You see the word

John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

and who is the word?

John 1:14
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The word is the Angel of The Lord or the one who speaks in behalf of the Almighty,could be Michael.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The belief that there is a Holy Trinity, that encompasses God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit as one single being is NOT in the Bible. This is a false teaching.

Read John in any version you wish ( I use the King James Version). Through out John Jesus himself repeatedly describes himself as the SON of God, as NOT God, and that God uses the Holy Spirit. He states he is NOT God, but rather his Son. That everything he does he does because his father lets him do it. He says it in NUMEROUS passages in John, in his own words.

Wrong. The Bible does support, and say, there is a Holy Trinity. You need to read the whole Bible. But then the book of John, contrary to your statement, supports the Holy Trinity. Try again.

I'm not so sure there is a trinity. It seems there are several different persons God use to reveal himself to man because no one can see God in his full glory and live.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The belief that there is a Holy Trinity, that encompasses God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit as one single being is NOT in the Bible. This is a false teaching.

Read John in any version you wish ( I use the King James Version). Through out John Jesus himself repeatedly describes himself as the SON of God, as NOT God, and that God uses the Holy Spirit. He states he is NOT God, but rather his Son. That everything he does he does because his father lets him do it. He says it in NUMEROUS passages in John, in his own words.

This gets interesting a bit when talking of the Trinity. May I please ask, Sgt.. do you call Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior?

If you say yes, then what you said can only be false. Because how can you call Jesus Christ your Lord, when God has said repeatedly throughout His Word - there is only ONE God?

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. Deuteronomy 6:4

Jesus and God are one.....

I and my Father are one. John 10:30

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by him...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us John 1:1, 3, 10, 14
Jesus saith...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

God is 'I am'.
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. (Exodus 3:14)

Jesus is 'I am'.
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(John 8:58)

op

This verse in particular shows Father, Son, and Holy Spirit:

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, BELIEVED ON in the world, RECEIVED UP into glory."
--1 Timothy 3:16

However, if you say no, that Jesus Christ is not the Lord; then it is understandable what you said above, but it is still false and/or as per His Word.

The whole point of the "Revelation" of Jesus Christ, is that we KNOW He is the Lord.
Not God, the Father, but God, the Son. Fully man, and Fully God. And this is not revealed by "man" but by through the Spirit.

Just because we do not fully understand something; doesn't mean it isn't true.

Jesus is also referred to as the creator of everything that has been created so Christ was definitely not a created being.

And God also said,he alone created.

 

[Youwerecreated]

This gets interesting a bit when talking of the Trinity. May I please ask, Sgt.. do you call Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior?

If you say yes, then what you said can only be false. Because how can you call Jesus Christ your Lord, when God has said repeatedly throughout His Word - there is only ONE God?

If he says yes to your question that makes his post blasphemy against the Holy Spirit; the one and only sin that God does not forgive.

I would be careful of a comment like this we are to help others and not judge them.

The scriptures are clear on this matter Jesus is God.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Which part of the new testament displays this information?
Not that I agree with it, just want to know where.

John 1:1 and John 1:14

"John 1:1
The Word Became Flesh
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Yep it most certainty says that,
but I do not feel that it's true I feel that this is one mans opinion of a great man who was not God but just his son and greatest prophet.

To get to the bottom of this you need to consult the OT,you need to find out who Jesus was before he took the name Jesus.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I can cite passage after passage where John and Jesus sate that Jesus is the Son, that Jesus has only the power give n him by his Father God. Passages where Jesus states he is NOT God, he is his son.

And the Bible talks of other Gods. Only one God is supreme. Jesus was God's first creation. He is as one with God, they think and act alike but they are not one being. God gave to Jesus the power to help him create everything after Jesus.

John 1:33 tells us that God commanded John to baptize Jesus with the holy Ghost, 3 separate entities, 2 visible to John at the same time.

John 1:34 states that this is Jesus the SON of God.

In Jesus own words he states he is not God but his son. In John 2:16 he reprimands those selling in the temple and warns them not to make HIS FATHER'S Hoses a store.

John 3:16 through 19 Jesus informs that he, THE SON of GOD was sent to save the world.

I can go on and on with JUST John.

Would you admit Jesus is a lesser form of the Almighty ?