Zone1 Things that block people from God

[Frankenstein]

So because a work of fiction contains some historical facts that makes all the made up parts true?

I've read great works of fiction set in Europe but I don't believe hobbits, elves, dwarves and wizards exist.

The New Testament is constantly under attack, and its reliability and accuracy are often contested by critics. But, there is ample manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability over all other ancient documents. If the critics want to disregard the New Testament, then they must also disregard other ancient writings by Plato, Aristotle, and Homer. This is because the New Testament documents are better preserved and more numerous than any other ancient writings. Because they are so numerous, they can be cross-checked for accuracy . . . and they are very consistent.


There are presently 5,686 Greek manuscripts in existence today for the New Testament.1 If we were to compare the number of New Testament manuscripts to other ancient writings, we find that the New Testament manuscripts far outweigh the others in quantity.2

 

[Frankenstein]

And you have evidence of evil spirits possessing people? Hah

The bible speaks of it frequently. Their is evidence of people displaying those traits yes. possession doesn't mimic what you see in the movies

 

[Blues Man]

The New Testament is constantly under attack, and its reliability and accuracy are often contested by critics. But, there is ample manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability over all other ancient documents. If the critics want to disregard the New Testament, then they must also disregard other ancient writings by Plato, Aristotle, and Homer. This is because the New Testament documents are better preserved and more numerous than any other ancient writings. Because they are so numerous, they can be cross-checked for accuracy . . . and they are very consistent.


There are presently 5,686 Greek manuscripts in existence today for the New Testament.1 If we were to compare the number of New Testament manuscripts to other ancient writings, we find that the New Testament manuscripts far outweigh the others in quantity.2

Reliability and accuracy of what?

Historical events or civilizations or geography?

That has nothing do with the accuracy of the fictional god parts.

A work of fiction can contain factual elements that usually makes it a more interesting work of fiction.

And you only know that the RCC wants you to know. How many of these writings were left out of the bible? How many of those that were left out do you have access to?

 

[Blues Man]

The bible speaks of it frequently. Their is evidence of people displaying those traits yes. possession doesn't mimic what you see in the movies

That ain't evidence that's a fiction you happen to believe is true.

You might as well say you saw The Exorcist in the theater and use that as proof.

 

[Frankenstein]

Reliability and accuracy of what?

Historical events or civilizations or geography?

That has nothing do with the accuracy of the fictional god parts.

A work of fiction can contain factual elements that usually makes it a more interesting work of fiction.

And you only know that the RCC wants you to know. How many of these writings were left out of the bible? How many of those that were left out do you have access to?

What you call fictional god parts are eye witness accounts! I am not Roman Catholic.

 

[Frankenstein]

That ain't evidence that's a fiction you happen to believe is true.

You might as well say you saw The Exorcist in the theater and use that as proof.

Can you even read, I said possession can be subtle, it most likely does not mimic what you see in the movies, and you may not even realize it but you are a pawn of Satan yourself.

 

[Blues Man]

What you call fictional god parts are eye witness accounts! I am not Roman Catholic.

Eyewitness accounts are the most unreliable just ask any prosecutor.

 

[Frankenstein]

Eyewitness accounts are the most unreliable just ask any prosecutor.

Keep moving the goal posts!

As you can see, there are thousands more New Testament Greek manuscripts than any other ancient writing. The internal consistency of the New Testament documents is about 99.5% textually pure. That is an amazing accuracy. In addition, there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages. The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000.


Almost all biblical scholars agree that the New Testament documents were all written before the close of the First Century. If Jesus was crucified in A.D. 30., then that means the entire New Testament was completed within 70 years. This is important because it means there were plenty of people around when the New Testament documents were penned–people who could have contested the writings. In other words, those who wrote the documents knew that if they were inaccurate, plenty of people would have pointed it out. But, we have absolutely no ancient documents contemporary with the First Century that contest the New Testament texts.

 

[Blues Man]

Can you even read, I said possession can be subtle, it most likely does not mimic what you see in the movies, and you may not even realize it but you are a pawn of Satan yourself.

Possession does not exist. It's more made up shit to describe behavior people either do not understand or do not agree with or it's a way for the religious to denigrate people who don't bend the knee.

 

[Frankenstein]

Possession does not exist. It's more made up shit to describe behavior people either do not understand or do not agree with or it's a way for the religious to denigrate people who don't bend the knee.

Furthermore, another important aspect of this discussion is the fact that we have a fragment of the gospel of John that dates back to around 29 years from the original writing (John Rylands Papyri A.D. 125). This is extremely close to the original writing date. This is simply unheard of in any other ancient writing, and it demonstrates that the Gospel of John is a First Century document.

 

[Blues Man]

Keep moving the goal posts!

As you can see, there are thousands more New Testament Greek manuscripts than any other ancient writing. The internal consistency of the New Testament documents is about 99.5% textually pure. That is an amazing accuracy. In addition, there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages. The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000.


Almost all biblical scholars agree that the New Testament documents were all written before the close of the First Century. If Jesus was crucified in A.D. 30., then that means the entire New Testament was completed within 70 years. This is important because it means there were plenty of people around when the New Testament documents were penned–people who could have contested the writings. In other words, those who wrote the documents knew that if they were inaccurate, plenty of people would have pointed it out. But, we have absolutely no ancient documents contemporary with the First Century that contest the New Testament texts.

So what?

Just because there are a lot of writings in no way means those writings are actually true.

There is no proof that the god of the New Testament exists outside of the bible itself. The bible was put together by the RCC and it was the RCC that decided what would and would not be included and then named itself as interpretive authority of all things biblical

The bible is a propaganda tool that is all it is. In fact the RCC executed the first person to ever translate the bible from Latin so that the common man could read it because the RCC wanted to maintain its power over the message

 

[Blues Man]

Furthermore, another important aspect of this discussion is the fact that we have a fragment of the gospel of John that dates back to around 29 years from the original writing (John Rylands Papyri A.D. 125). This is extremely close to the original writing date. This is simply unheard of in any other ancient writing, and it demonstrates that the Gospel of John is a First Century document.

So what?

everyone knows Christianity was invented in the first century of the Common Era

 

[Frankenstein]

So what?

Just because there are a lot of writings in no way means those writings are actually true.

There is no proof that the god of the New Testament exists outside of the bible itself. The bible was put together by the RCC and it was the RCC that decided what would and would not be included and then named itself as interpretive authority of all things biblical

The bible is a propaganda tool that is all it is. In fact the RCC executed the first person to ever translate the bible from Latin so that the common man could read it because the RCC wanted to maintain its power over the message

So don't believe, but also do not pretend that those are the things that block you from God. For no amount of ABSOLUTE evidence which there is plenty of historically and archeologically, would ever convince you. You still believe in the writings of people like Homer and Aristotle and even that Alexander the great was a real person with no more evidence than I have shown you!

 

[Frankenstein]

So what?

everyone knows Christianity was invented in the first century of the Common Era

Invented for what purpose those people were killed eventually for what they were doing!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Why is it you can't believe that? I mean I know but do you?

Because it's absurd and violates physical laws. Just as I don't think Indian shamans can actually levitate. And no, Uri Geller cannot bend spoons with his mind.

All of these goofy magical claims go on the same shelf.

 

[Blues Man]

So don't believe, but also do not pretend that those are the things that block you from God. For no amount of ABSOLUTE evidence which there is plenty of historically and archeologically, would ever convince you. You still believe in the writings of people like Homer and Aristotle and even that Alexander the great was a real person with no more evidence than I have shown you!

Here we go again with you telling me what I have to believe.

Just because people in the Iron Age believed something is not a good enough reason to keep believing it.

And I never said JC wasn't a real person so there you go again making shit up.

 

[Blues Man]

Invented for what purpose those people were killed eventually for what they were doing!

People were killed because the powers that be thought they were a threat to their power.

Then those same powers that be actually took control over the religion ands used it a a club to keep people in line

 

[buttercup]

(1) I envy you, Buttercup, for your faith. It no doubt gives you a strength that I certainly do not have.

(2) But in my 86 years, I have experienced too much personal suffering and have read too much about the horrific suffering of others to believe in God (or an afterlife).

(3) I believe that some people feel that the idea of God definitely died after the Holocaust was revealed to the world.

(4) Nevertheless, I pray each morning -- just in case!


I wish you (and every member and guest) a Healthy New Year.

Thanks for your thoughts. Since you brought it up… IYAM, your reason # 2 is actually something that supports the existence of God, not the other way around. Let me explain.

The fact that there is evil and suffering in this world, and that people recognize that evil, points toward the existence of an objective good. What I mean by that is, you cannot have evil without something to measure it against, and what are we measuring it against? A true GOOD. And that objective good is rooted in God. The very nature of God is love, truth, goodness, kindness, justice, wisdom, beauty, etc.

The problem of course is that this is a fallen world, and so many people are in rebellion to God (even if they don't consciously realize that.) So, when people go against God's basic rules, that is when evil happens... which causes suffering in this world.

I know this is not going to happen, but in theory, if people would simply follow God's basic rules and principles, and live by the Golden Rule, most of the problems in this world would be gone and this world would be significantly better, overnight.

Here's a quote by C.S Lewis saying basically the same thing, in his words:

Btw, I think it's good that you pray. But believe! I promise you, there is a God, and surrendering to God is the best thing one can ever do. I wish you a Happy and Healthy New Year too!

 

[onefour1]

Thanks for your thoughts. Since you brought it up… IYAM, your reason # 2 is actually something that supports the existence of God, not the other way around. Let me explain.

The fact that there is evil and suffering in this world, and that people recognize that evil, points toward the existence of an objective good. What I mean by that is, you cannot have evil without something to measure it against, and what are we measuring it against? A true GOOD. And that objective good is rooted in God. The very nature of God is love, truth, goodness, kindness, justice, wisdom, beauty, etc.

The problem of course is that this is a fallen world, and so many people are in rebellion to God (even if they don't consciously realize that.) So, when people go against God's basic rules, that is when evil happens... which causes suffering in this world.

I know this is not going to happen, but in theory, if people would simply follow God's basic rules and principles, and live by the Golden Rule, most of the problems in this world would be gone and this world would be significantly better, overnight.

Here's a quote by C.S Lewis saying basically the same thing, in his words:

Btw, I think it's good that you pray. But believe! I promise you, there is a God, and surrendering to God is the best thing one can ever do. I wish you a Happy and Healthy New Year too!

This discussion reminds me of a chapter from the Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 2.

 

[hobelim]

And you have evidence of evil spirits possessing people? Hah

Hah? Frankenstein and his delusions are evidence that demonic possession is a fact of life.

How else do you explain the mindless droves of useful idiots who actually fell for the specious lie that trump is going to save democracy with fascism by terrifying the uneducated about losing their constitutional rights and convincing them that democrats, the free press, truth, liberty, justice, the balance of powers, and the constitution are the real enemy, and its their religious obligation and patriotic duty to support tyranny and deny others their constitutional rights? WTF

In bible speak trump is a 21st century demon, his followers are just disposable possessions that he has beguiled into advancing his megalomaniacal ambitions to become a tyrannical MADMAN.

How is it even possible that you don't believe in evil spirits and demonic possession? Hah? Don't you believe in what you have seen with your own eyes and heard with your own ears for years?

Seriously, what more evidence do you really need? Pay attention! To be aware is to be alive.