Theocracies

[Tommy Tainant]

Are there any examples from history where these were a success ?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Not that I can think of. Why? Many people interpret their various holy books far different from others that use the same book.

Some good examples.............................

Catholics vs. Protestants in the UK. Now, I realize that the UK itself isn't a theocracy, but they do let a lot of religion into how they govern themselves. And, because the 2 groups couldn't agree on how to interpret the same book, they were at war with each other for a long time.

Sunni vs. Shia. Now, in some ME countries, they do have theocracies, but the leading version of the religion spends a great deal of time stomping down those who aren't the leading sect of the religion, and they use politics to try to eradicate the other belief structures.

No, one of the reasons that this country is so great is that we (supposedly) have separation of church and state. That way, we can have a set of laws that can work for all citizens, without stomping on their belief systems. That is also one of the reasons that I believe Sharia law will never be the way this country runs. We have too many different belief systems that are cool with the secular laws, but would immediately revolt if forced to live under religious laws of another religion.

The US doesn't really have religious laws, which is probably why our democracy has survived as long as it has.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Are there any examples from history where these were a success ?

Vatican city

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Are there any examples from history where these were a success ?

Vatican
The caravan is waiting for the money tommy

 

[ABikerSailor]

Are there any examples from history where these were a success ?

Vatican city

How is the Vatican a "success" at being a theocracy? They are heavily dependent on Italy for a lot of their stuff. They don't have a separate economy, nor do they print their own money. No, the Vatican isn't an example of a successful country being a theocracy.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Are there any examples from history where these were a success ?

Vatican city

How is the Vatican a success ? Its full of sex offenders on the run.

 

[Sunni Man]

Saudi Arabia is a successful theocracy.

So is Iran, Qatar, Oman, Malaysia, Indonesia, Sudan, Mauritania, and several other muslim majority countries. ...

 

[Frankeneinstein]

How is the Vatican a "success" at being a theocracy? They are heavily dependent on Italy for a lot of their stuff. They don't have a separate economy, nor do they print their own money. No, the Vatican isn't an example of a successful country being a theocracy.

You are just so so bad at this

 

[Frankeneinstein]

How is the Vatican a success ? Its full of sex offenders on the run.

Does your country have any of them running around tommy?[you may wanna feign ignorance on this point, perhaps make an excuse, or go to the dictionary]...now cough up the money you promised those poor folks in the caravan

 

[ABikerSailor]

Saudi Arabia is a successful theocracy.

So is Iran, Qatar, Oman, Malaysia, Indonesia, Sudan, Mauritania, and several other muslim majority countries. ...

The only reason Saudi Arabia is a "successful theocracy" is because of the brutal way they put down any dissent.

Same with the other Muslim countries.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

The only reason Saudi Arabia is a "successful theocracy" is because of the brutal way they put down any dissent.

Same with the other Muslim countries.

That is called islamaphobia-xenophobia

 

[Sunni Man]

The only reason Saudi Arabia is a "successful theocracy" is because of the brutal way they put down any dissent. Same with the other Muslim countries.

Dissent is highly overrated. ....

 

[oldsoul]

Are there any examples from history where these were a success ?

Depends on your definition of "success".

 

[DGS49]

You may have to go one step further and clarify what YOU mean by theocracy. I consider Iran a "theocracy" because although it has the rubrics of representative government, the Mullahs have the power to override any governmental act that they find un-Islamic.

Many countries formally recognize a particular religion as their state religion, but I don't think that makes them theocracies.

 

[Mike Dwight]

"
a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God or a god.

• the commonwealth of Israel from the time of Moses until the election of Saul as King.

"
Moses running around the desert, to taking the land back and before they established a King of Israel?
I like definitions.Why? Because everyone runs around shouting the 20th century invented phrase Racism. The belief in the superiority of races, not even useful until Nazis and after World War 2, and people comparing themselves to the Jewish "ghetto". Looks like theocracy itself became popular mid 1850s, sounds like an epitaph on US people ever actually having any theocracies, if you ask me.

So anyway, I suppose Iran qualifies? Does Iran qualify? People look around at the decolonized states in the Middle East by Europeans, they are a Muslim Empire in one big Muslim Empire for most of their years, 1200 years. The Shias, The Iranian revolution is religious extremism with a funny caveat that there's a Democratic President, ministers, but just put an Imam Supreme Leader on top, funny that an Imam gets reported to by a President. Isn't that supposed to be a Napoleonic Republican tradition?
Successful might mean that people are living with the religion police alright.
What about the inward looking Puritan communities of America? The Scarlet Letter? The Covenanters of Scotland , the Church of Scotland didn't need to run the post office in 1600, or anything like that. So, I'm totally with the last poster on the difference between Established religions and Theocracies. Its like the Church of Scotland went to America and took out from the Church confession about obeying the magistrates as a Church Belief, I guess its not their police anymore right? The Catholic Church of France was in horrible corrupt shape for the French Revolution. The disestablishment there seems to have cost anybody else in that market. I guess they had the Avignon Papacy in a French Theocracy example.

People are plenty religious without Establishment verging on Theocracy. People hardly notice when Southern Baptists have a strong statement With the US government in respecting non-establishment and the use of government by religion. It was already over, I think, when you elect the top President every 4 years. Early America is like, yay for me, you elected an Episcopalian, yay for me you elected Presbyterian, good luck on that Establishing a Church.

Don't they all want to be little cult theocracies, Napoleon is the true Christian, the true Roman Emperor, the True Muslim when he gets to Egypt, by the measure of THIS definition, I have the same problem with Racism definitions, THEY ALL WANT to be theocracies. Maybe Communists aren't throwing in God Smiled Down Upon etc. etc. Does anyone read George Washington or the God-Worship we directed to George Washington in his holy District of Columbia, the womanly Personification of a land made happy by his inhabitance, with this smiling God-figure in the capitol building on the ceiling. Not only that, he really is just an Anglican if you read him enough, an early 18th Century or Reformational-driven Anglican Protestant with those troops to command, and whats all this Dieism cover they put on him from nowhere, are they reading the same guy? All I can figure is you're in a war where all the Anglican Priests fled back to Mother England and good luck to them to, if its 100 curse-bringers to 1 blessing cleric I say to, we can check nature to know God too, that's a war measure. Nobody in the USA is that far from "religious control", I mean the first Corporation Standard Oil Monopoly, Rockefeller kept his image as a Famous Tither, "I gave my first million only because I could give my first 1.50 from my first paycheck". They can win from popularity, you know, what's business really have to do with religion, or oil?

Who says America doesn't have any Religious Laws? We're just all under Pastor Abraham Lincoln. I mean look, Muslims do Not want a different word for wives and husbands when they get 8 wives under Mohammad and help with their chores, how nice of him. However, Lincoln had a little stand-off ending polygamy over in Utah ending the campaign's Two Evils of polygamy and Slavery, so as the farthest leftist left liberal puts in getting gay with two people, Conservative still starts at Abraham Lincoln's Christian liberalism. I had moments "of silence" I could do without, while getting a public education. We pledge of Allegiance "under God" because its Lincoln's , Under God, a New Birth of Freedom. We In God We Trust, because, its the Star Spangled Banner names it our Motto. Basically, we're lucky Lincoln wasn't pledged minister of a Church of denominational rather than ecumenical leanings.

 

[sparky]

 

[sparky]

thread tune (goosebumps!)



~S~

 

[Mike Dwight]

I don't think I've ever read any Sinclair Lewis. Any background that made you interested in Sinclair Lewis? I checked all his literature. 1930's influential American writer? Clearly a quote about emerging European fascism? Go East Young Man, funny take-off on Go West Young Man, that's all I got.
Benito Mussolini of Italy Fascism first used the word. You Know, I'm probably more read on Mussolini than the Average person, think the Big Man that can replace the King of Italy and invade the Pope to make the trains run on time and stare down challengers, and some arm-salute he had going with Hitler to remake a new Roman Empire, am I right? The Roman arm salute from "Oath of the Horatii" painting and offshoot works. Little did he Know the Pope was working on his own Rome, I think we all know Rome is in Italy, they are pointing this out to us.

 

[sparky]

Any background that made you interested in Sinclair Lewis?

simply that he was first in a long line of those who contorted his quote Mike

theocacies are such an insidious thing , myself i truly believe we've been on the path to one in America for generations.

it's all about control you know, 'religion' has always been about bottling something celestial to sell for that.

one can have faith w/o religion too, the more the extreemist KKKristians push their weight around, the more they create a mutually exclusive divide between the two concepts

~S~

 

[Mike Dwight]

So wait, Theocracy straight to Fascism? Ha! I mean, speaking of Christians anyway, they seem pretty nice organizations, they're Sanctuaries first. You aren't supposed to be subject to penalty in a Church Sanctuary. Hitler hated Christianity "From the Jews", Christianity made an alright Europe and America, Fascism-wise. I guess if somebody told You they're KKK even you'd have something to talk about, right? That stuff's like 99% knowledge-gaining.