Theism/Atheism/Agnosticsm?

[eagleseven]

It's not opinion, you twit.

You're an idiot. That's a fact.

It seems you didn't read my "poorly-worded" OP.

Where do you fall, and why? Please, keep your responses short and respectful (this means you, JB).

You got the short part right, at least...

 

[JBeukema]

It seems you didn't read my "poorly-worded" OP.

Because I point out the obvious?

 

[Montrovant]

Using the definitions you provided, I am agnostic. I don't believe in any god, I don't feel there is evidence to support such a belief, but I'm not prepared to completely deny the possibility.

 

[DV8]

Using the definitions you provided, I am agnostic. I don't believe in any god, I don't feel there is evidence to support such a belief, but I'm not prepared to completely deny the possibility.

You mean like this?
Agnostic atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Old Rocks]

Agnostic. I do not know if there is a diety. And the Dieties presented by most religions are created in the image of man, I find that unacceptable.

 

[N4mddissent]

I was going to say, Bertrand Russell would agree with you. Then I noticed your sig

While I do not dispute what you are saying, I formed this thread using Occam's razor. I stand by my decision to use the simplest, most direct definitions of the above words.

Those being:

Theist = one who is certain there are no Gods or God
Atheist = one who is certain there are no Gods or God
Agnostic = one who does not know if there are Gods or God

As these are the most commonly accepted uses of the words, I chose these words for the poll, in order to reach the broadest range of people. The more options I offer, the more people will blow off this poll.

In that case, I would be agnostic.

 

[tigerbob]

Theist, and broadly Anglican, though I tend to pick and choose what I believe.

The bible was written by man. Unlike those who believe the bible to be infallible, I believe men make mistakes, some of them deliberate.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Theist, and broadly Anglican, though I tend to pick and choose what I believe.

The bible was written by man. Unlike those who believe the bible to be infallible, I believe men make mistakes, some of them deliberate.

I don't understand something, tigerbob, about your religious beliefs, and maybe you could shed some light on the subject for me. Maybe I should say, I'm confused.

You believe in God, the God of the Bible, and that Jesus Christ died to cleanse humankind of sin? Is that right (obviously I'm assuming here)? I don't know much about Anglican (outside of a historical sense - I love British history, very interesting stuff), so I can't assume you attend church regularly, but do you? I guess what I'm getting at is just HOW religious are you and how strongly do you hold your religious beliefs? Are you more spiritual than religious or very strict in religious practice as is defined by the doctrine of your particular church?

This is why I ask: for you to believe in God, specifically the God of the Christian religion, and attend a Christian church, how do you reconcile that with the belief that the Bible is possibly fallible and some of it even outright deception? I'm not finding fault here, its more that I'm interested in this. There are some who believe in "god" who manifests itself in all of the religions of the world and that "god" is reflected differently based on culture, etc. In other words, God is Yaweh is Allah is Sri Krsna is...so on and so forth.

Is that kinda where your beliefs fall?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

So far, we've 3 theists, 1 atheist, and 3 illiterate

which one was I?

 

[tigerbob]

Theist, and broadly Anglican, though I tend to pick and choose what I believe.

The bible was written by man. Unlike those who believe the bible to be infallible, I believe men make mistakes, some of them deliberate.

I don't understand something, tigerbob, about your religious beliefs, and maybe you could shed some light on the subject for me. Maybe I should say, I'm confused.

You believe in God, the God of the Bible, and that Jesus Christ died to cleanse humankind of sin? Is that right (obviously I'm assuming here)? I don't know much about Anglican (outside of a historical sense - I love British history, very interesting stuff), so I can't assume you attend church regularly, but do you? I guess what I'm getting at is just HOW religious are you and how strongly do you hold your religious beliefs? Are you more spiritual than religious or very strict in religious practice as is defined by the doctrine of your particular church?

This is why I ask: for you to believe in God, specifically the God of the Christian religion, and attend a Christian church, how do you reconcile that with the belief that the Bible is possibly fallible and some of it even outright deception? I'm not finding fault here, its more that I'm interested in this. There are some who believe in "god" who manifests itself in all of the religions of the world and that "god" is reflected differently based on culture, etc. In other words, God is Yaweh is Allah is Sri Krsna is...so on and so forth.

Is that kinda where your beliefs fall?

I try not to go into too much detail about what I believe, as a lot of people heere just love to pick stuff apart. On thr other hand you've always been genuine when we've discussed this so I'll answer.

You believe in God, the God of the Bible, and that Jesus Christ died to cleanse humankind of sin? Is that right (obviously I'm assuming here)? I don't know much about Anglican (outside of a historical sense - I love British history, very interesting stuff), so I can't assume you attend church regularly, but do you?

Yes, basically. I believe JC was the son of God, he took our sins onto his shoulders when he died and gave us a new start. I believe that so long as you "love your neighbor" and "love god above all others" then you're doing the 2 most important things right. I don't go to church as regularly as I should, but that's more an issue of needing to find a church with which I'm comfortable. I pray quite often, and believe God values us keeping him in our hearts more than he values us going to a church.

I guess what I'm getting at is just HOW religious are you and how strongly do you hold your religious beliefs? Are you more spiritual than religious or very strict in religious practice as is defined by the doctrine of your particular church?

I hold my beliefs strongly, but they are my beliefs and I would not presume to force them on anyone else. I'm not a big fan or dogma / doctrine or theological debate, call it what you will. If something is ambiguous then I have a hard time being interested in it. I believe that God is sufficiently smart to help me get what he means without needing a bunch of theologians to translate it for me.

This is why I ask: for you to believe in God, specifically the God of the Christian religion, and attend a Christian church, how do you reconcile that with the belief that the Bible is possibly fallible and some of it even outright deception?

I don't reconcile it. I have never audited my personal faith. I believe what I believe and that's good enough for me. I know that's not really a satisfactory answer for a message board, since USMB folks tend to want something they can get their teeth into. All I can say to that is....sorry about that. My faith is my faith, nobody else's. I believe what I believe and if someone can't deal with that it's fine with me.

I'm not finding fault here, its more that I'm interested in this. There are some who believe in "god" who manifests itself in all of the religions of the world and that "god" is reflected differently based on culture, etc. In other words, God is Yaweh is Allah is Sri Krsna is...so on and so forth.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what that means. It sound like very interesting and complex theological stuff and as such has gone straight over my head. Either way I try not to make comparisons across religions. I find that doing so is usually likely to provoke a fight with someone I had no desire to fight.

Oh, hand on. I've just got it.

But I still have no idea how to answer since I don't know enough about the other religions to make the comparison that would be required. Bummer!

 

[Gudrid]

Where do you put someone who has a strong faith in a higher power yet totally is disgusted by every religious organization in the world?

Don't know, but I'll be there with you.

 

[SWGAFire]

Yea, what the rest of you said. No need to rehash the same ole' philosophies. I guess I'm Agnostic.

But I'm pretty Mulder on the topic...I Want to believe. Just can't make myself go blindly after Santa for adults. IF there is something out there, I tend to doubt that it/they give two shakes about us.

 

[Avatar4321]

Obviously theistic. Ive had too many experiences with the Lord to believe otherwise now.

 

[The Illusion]

Okay, I feel the compulsion to smack the hell outta you. theism/atheism and gnosticism/agnosticism addresstwo different issues. The options should be

gnostic theist
agnostic theist
gnostic atheist
agnostic atheist

I didnt fit into any of the original categories. If I were to decide using yours, Id have to say none.

Jamie

 

[Avatar4321]

I didnt fit into any of the original categories. If I were to decide using yours, Id have to say none.

Jamie

what category do you fit into if it's none of those mentioned?

 

[JBeukema]

Okay, I feel the compulsion to smack the hell outta you. theism/atheism and gnosticism/agnosticism addresstwo different issues. The options should be

gnostic theist
agnostic theist
gnostic atheist
agnostic atheist

I didnt fit into any of the original categories. If I were to decide using yours, Id have to say none.

Jamie

Either you believe in a deity or not. Either you claim ultimate knowledge or you do not. There are no other possibilities.

 

[mattskramer]

Where do you fall, and why? Please, keep your responses short and respectful (this means you, JB).

I'm not sure where I fall. Where do you put someone who has a strong faith in a higher power yet totally is disgusted by every religious organization in the world?

I believe in a higher power, which many call God or Allah, but have no faith in any organized religion.

If I had to classify myself i'd be a Jewish Buddhist as I believe that worshiping any idols is wrong and that karma is a real force not to be trifled with.

Let me help you by defining terms.

A theist is simply one who believes in the existence of a god or gods.

God is defined as a being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions. It is also defied as the force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.

An atheist is one who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

An agnostic is defied as one who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. It is one who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism. It is also defied as one who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

Based on these definitions, I think that you fall under the category of “theist”.

 

[JBeukema]

God is defined as a being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions . It is also defied as the force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.

*facepalm*

Care to include the other definition?

from Princeton

• S: (n) deity, divinity, god, immortal (any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force)

More accurately, theists believe at least one deity exists

S: (n) deity, divinity, god, immortal (any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force)

An agnostic is defied as one who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. It is one who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism. It is also defied as one who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

Wrong.

agnosticism means one does not claim ultimate knowledge regarding a thing. It literally means without (a-) knowledge (gnostos).

This can be broken into weak agnosticism, which basically means 'I don't claim ton know absolutely' and strong agnosticism, which basically translates to 'it is unknown or unknowable absolutely)


Strong theism: i know there is at least one deity or god

agnostic theism: I believe ion at least one god or deity

agnostic atheism: IO do not believe any deity exists

gnostic atheism: I know absolutely that no deity exists.


The last is widely considered logically fallacious, as one can never be omniscient and can therefore never know absolutely that a thing does not exist.

 

[mattskramer]

God is defined as a being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions . It is also defied as the force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.

*facepalm*

Care to include the other definition?

from Princeton

• S: (n) deity, divinity, god, immortal (any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force)

More accurately, theists believe at least one deity exists

S: (n) deity, divinity, god, immortal (any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force)

An agnostic is defied as one who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. It is one who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism. It is also defied as one who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

Wrong.

agnosticism means one does not claim ultimate knowledge regarding a thing. It literally means without (a-) knowledge (gnostos).

This can be broken into weak agnosticism, which basically means 'I don't claim ton know absolutely' and strong agnosticism, which basically translates to 'it is unknown or unknowable absolutely)


Strong theism: i know there is at least one deity or god

agnostic theism: I believe ion at least one god or deity

agnostic atheism: IO do not believe any deity exists

gnostic atheism: I know absolutely that no deity exists.


The last is widely considered logically fallacious, as one can never be omniscient and can therefore never know absolutely that a thing does not exist.

Uh. Okay. You must have used a different dictionary. The definitions that I used came straight from Dictionary, Encyclopedia and Thesaurus - The Free Dictionary

Merriam – Webster at Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online defines them similarly:

Theist:
belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world

Atheist:
one who believes that there is no deity

Agnostic:
1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2 : a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something <political agnostics>

 

[JBeukema]

M-W is crap, especially if you need accurate definitions for specified discussions. Princeton rarely fails me.