The Universe: Eternal or no?

[Shogun]

I prefer the term "Dogma Junkie"

 

[sky dancer]

Rob-

What is it that 'does not perish'? Certainly, God was not talking about the material, was he?

What does not perish? That's an interesting topic, and one that I think we may find common ground on---at least those of us who have a spiritual path. Zealots and non-zealots alike.

Are all atheists nihilists?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Rob-

What is it that 'does not perish'? Certainly, God was not talking about the material, was he?

What does not perish? That's an interesting topic, and one that I think we may find common ground on---at least those of us who have a spiritual path. Zealots and non-zealots alike.

Are all atheists nihilists?

Think of it in Buddhist terms of rebirth. The old body dies, and the soul travels to a new one, but, the soul is still the individual, not the body.

Are all atheists nihilists? Nope. The reason that I say that, is because in order for a person (generally) to become an atheist, they generally have a decent intelligence, as well as a fair knowledge of science, which is why they think that they are "better" than the ones that go by faith, as they know how things work, therefore shutting off the need for faith.

Scientists are well organized, and most are looking for a way to make a buck by bringing something good to the world. More importantly, they understand order, structure, and method, therefore not being able to be disorganized makes them unable to become nihilists.

Although......some may.

 

[sky dancer]

In your understanding, as a 'Christian Taoist with Judaism knowledge' what is the 'soul'? Is it endowed with personality? Is it 'the real you'? Is it consciousness or awareness itself?

 

[Truthspeaker]

That is precisely what is being said. Belief in something you cannot demonstrate a reason for believing doesn't require critical thinking. Visit a loon asylum to get a grasp of the stupidity involved in baseless beliefs.

Those lunatics will swear to you that they and only they know the truth. They can't demonstrate how or why they know what they know, just tell you that they know and you do not. And we all know why they can't demonstrate their beliefs, because they in fact know absolutely nothing. They are mentally deranged. They believe they know, but they don't know; it is an the highest order of irrationality and insanity.


I am quite capable of comprehending that fact that you made a completely idiotic statement and now that you have been called on it, you are backpeddling and attempting to save face by implying you meant something completely opposite of what you said


Just as you do not believe the intellectuals, yes - there were a lot of fools then and there are a lot of fools like you now.


Yes, the rise of Christianity and fall of Rome certainly was a huge step back in knowledge.


You have not demonstrated any use of reason or logic. Belief in something that was indoctrinated into your brain but you cannot demonstrate is using neither reason nor logic. You must be able to demonstrate the facts whether those facts be repeatable experiments that produce the same results, or mountains of archival data, or observation of recurrent phenomenon, etc, that support your argument and clearly articulate the logic that results from said facts. You have no facts to work with so any insistence that you are using reason or logic is a nonstarter.

I will demonstrate to you an example of a loony argument. Someone puts forward to the scientific community that they have solved the mechanism behind gravity. This someone says that they have been revealed the truth and you must trust that they know what they are talking about. They explain that it is in fact a force driven by invisible undetectable strings manipulated by countless undetectable gremlins that in fact rule the universe. They go on to further explain that they know this because one of the gremlins revealed himself only to his mind.

Are you going to take this loon with any ounce of seriousness?


Thanks for your opinion, but I am not bitter nor confused. I in fact get along quite well with religious people, including my family.


I am not sure why you think my avatar has anything to do with final fantasy. But you are the only one that is trying to pass off knowledge that you clearly do not have. You no doubt believe you have such knowledge, but that is only because you are insane. See the top of this post.

I am quite sure you told all of your family that they are loons and that went over well
You mentioned evidence and repeating phenomena, those are the exact things that cause a person to be religious, they see evidence of the things they hope to be true and repeating phenomena that others may not consider to be phenomena. Like a prophecy coming true, or someones life being enhanced by their religion or archaelogical evidence that supports a claim from scripture that for a long time was mocked.
There is plethora of such examples. You can try and explain them away but that is your interpretation and doesn't have to be ours. The fact that you are not open to the idea show ignorance on your part.
And if I am so insane, and it is so obvious that everyone can see it, Why do you feel the need to reply to my baseless posts. Why don't you just block me out or ignore me? I don't think you are taking time to go to the assylum and argue with the real loons. Well I have a theory on that too.
The truth has a certain ring to it and has a phenomenal power to draw the attention of those who do and dont like it. it has to be commented on either for or against it, it is impossible to be neutral, either one tries to discredit it with Socratic arguments or wants to know more and at least gives it a chance.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Anywhoo, I think we are off topic, I think the universe is eternal. I think elements have always been but are indefinitely molded and shaped througout eternity. Life never truly ends, and there is always progression of intelligences, meaning animals, humans and interstellar species. Even if you don't agree with me you have to agree that it is a cool thing to believe in if it were true.

 

[ABikerSailor]

In your understanding, as a 'Christian Taoist with Judaism knowledge' what is the 'soul'? Is it endowed with personality? Is it 'the real you'? Is it consciousness or awareness itself?

What is the Soul? A small piece of God that He carved out from under his Throne with the blade of Self Will.

Is it endowed with personality? Yep. What part of it's a small piece of God do people miss?

Is it the "real" You? Also true. God gives us a piece of Himself as a way to help guard and care for Gaia.

Conciousness and Awareness are two different things dear. You can be concious of something, but unaware of it. You can be aware of something, but you can't stay unconscious of it.

 

[XVZ]

I am quite sure you told all of your family that they are loons and that went over well
You mentioned evidence and repeating phenomena, those are the exact things that cause a person to be religious, they see evidence of the things they hope to be true and repeating phenomena that others may not consider to be phenomena. Like a prophecy coming true,

What is an example of a prophecy that you think has been predicted and then came true?

or someones life being enhanced by their religion

You think that is evidence to support a mythology dreamed up by men with the mere knowledge of cavemen?

or archaelogical evidence that supports a claim from scripture that for a long time was mocked.

What claims have been backed up by archaeological evidence? Does Anything support the absurd mythological claims? Or is it just evidence to support that there was a real and mundane event from which the mythology was dreamed up?

There is plethora of such examples. You can try and explain them away but that is your interpretation and doesn't have to be ours. The fact that you are not open to the idea show ignorance on your part.

You believe Jesus was born of a virgin, walked on water, and all the other mythological bullshit in the Bible without evidence and you want to say that I am ignorant for not believing it? You are completely deranged.

And if I am so insane, and it is so obvious that everyone can see it, Why do you feel the need to reply to my baseless posts. Why don't you just block me out or ignore me? I don't think you are taking time to go to the assylum and argue with the real loons. Well I have a theory on that too.

Sounds to me like you wish to have free reign to spread your bullshit!

I never said your insanity is obvious and that everyone can see it. In fact, if you had been paying attention, you would know that I said the exact opposite. Can you guess where? Test yourself, see how smart you are. I'll even encourage you to cheat since I am completely convinced you'll be required to... here I'll even help you out, reread this post.

The truth has a certain ring to it and has a phenomenal power to draw the attention of those who do and dont like it. it has to be commented on either for or against it, it is impossible to be neutral, either one tries to discredit it with Socratic arguments or wants to know more and at least gives it a chance.

The only truths we can know about our world come from scientific understanding, so I suppose you are correct in that religious zealots come up with all kinds of mindlessly stupid arguments in an attempt to discredit science and pass off fairy tale conjecture as "truth".

 

[Truthspeaker]

What is an example of a prophecy that you think has been predicted and then came true? Joseph Smith's prophecy on the civil war over 30 years in advancehttp://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/people/joseph_smith/civil_war.html


You think that is evidence to support a mythology dreamed up by men with the mere knowledge of cavemen?I should think so. Cavemen weren't that stupid.


What claims have been backed up by archaeological evidence? Does Anything support the absurd mythological claims? Or is it just evidence to support that there was a real and mundane event from which the mythology was dreamed up? Mormon Truth and Book of Mormon Evidences: Not Proof, But Indications of Plausibility have fun with this site, you could be on it all day.


You believe Jesus was born of a virgin, walked on water, and all the other mythological bullshit in the Bible without evidence and you want to say that I am ignorant for not believing it? You are completely deranged. I didn't say you are ignorant for not believing it, I said you were ignorant because you aren't open for the idea of it being possible just because you don't get it and we do.


Sounds to me like you wish to have free reign to spread your bullshit!

I never said your insanity is obvious and that everyone can see it. In fact, if you had been paying attention, you would know that I said the exact opposite. Can you guess where? Test yourself, see how smart you are. I'll even encourage you to cheat since I am completely convinced you'll be required to... here I'll even help you out, reread this post.

Thanks for the cheat sheet, but I didn't really need it. You actually said there are no such thing as christian scientists by saying they are anything but. Your post makes it clear that you think religious people are deranged, I don't know why you showed the post. It's not even an argument

 

[Truthspeaker]

Oh yeah anybody see that special on The History Channel Sodom and Gomorrah and the archaelogical evidence of a meteor shower and meteor that crash landed and destroyed the city? I watched it last week and the astrologers were pretty amazing how accurate they were. I'll do some surfing and find a link to it.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Anywhoo, I don't think this thread is about who is right and who is wrong, I thought it was just to share opinions and respect others. I think the universe is eternal.

 

[sky dancer]

All things in this Universe – and the Universe itself, will come to an end one day.

 

[Truthspeaker]

All things in this Universe – and the Universe itself, will come to an end one day.

Even if you are right about that, no matter what happens after we die, the important thing is to be a good person and remembered as such.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Anywhoo, I think we are off topic, I think the universe is eternal. I think elements have always been but are indefinitely molded and shaped througout eternity. Life never truly ends, and there is always progression of intelligences, meaning animals, humans and interstellar species. Even if you don't agree with me you have to agree that it is a cool thing to believe in if it were true.

Even if you don't agree with me you have to agree that it is a cool thing to believe in if it were true...just like the Easter Bunny, Santa, the Tooth Fairy (did he marry tom thumb?),..

yeah, it would all be cool

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Even if you are right about that, no matter what happens after we die, the important thing is to be a good person and remembered as such.

agree. do you think it is possible do do this without religion?

 

[Truthspeaker]

agree. do you think it is possible do do this without religion?

Yes of course. Religion was never required to show the quality of a person's character.
But I do think the universe is eternal. I would think proof of this would be found in that no scientist has found the true destruction of an element yet. If they were destructable, then periodically we would find some truly disappear from existence wouldn't we? I think it is illogical to suppose the elimination of an element. They always have been and they always will be. Things that have beginnings have ends. I think the elements never had either. There have to be some constants in the universe right?

 

[midcan5]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/50677-life-chance-eternity.html

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yes of course. Religion was never required to show the quality of a person's character.
But I do think the universe is eternal. I would think proof of this would be found in that no scientist has found the true destruction of an element yet. If they were destructable, then periodically we would find some truly disappear from existence wouldn't we? I think it is illogical to suppose the elimination of an element. They always have been and they always will be. Things that have beginnings have ends. I think the elements never had either. There have to be some constants in the universe right?

If religion was never required to show the quality of a person's character, then can you please explain to me why so many religious people determine the quality of a persons character by their religion?

 

[Truthspeaker]

If religion was never required to show the quality of a person's character, then can you please explain to me why so many religious people determine the quality of a persons character by their religion?

It may be considered necessary to some religions to be religious in order to have good character but not in my religion.

It's easy to see that religion is not needed to be a good person.

 

[hansom]

Believing the universe has a beginning, i would posit that without the introduction of additional energy/information, it will eventually end