The Ugly, Nasty, Disgusting Truth About The V.A. Scandal.

[strollingbones]

when the pows returned to ft bragg...womack army hospital received them.....it was the last large group and some had been held for years and were given up for dead...they shut the place down and got all this help for the pows....many had wives who had remarried and counseling was given to everyone involved...including the new husband of the not widowed. there seemed to be a lot of compassion shown to everyone....now its you are booted out...granted we do not have the pows like that but many of the ones now are condemned to a mental prison which they may never get out of ....we owe them the help they need...we owe them so much and i wonder sometimes who has won these wars? we claim these victories but they do seem hollow in the long run.

 

[martybegan]

drop the party crap and discuss the problem....and the problem is simply this...we cannot afford the large military budget we have now....military spending is dead end spending in that a dollar allotted in the military sector does not return the same amount as a dollar spend in the private sector....we have fooled ourselves into believing that a large army is good for the economy and the country...and no one addresses the problems that the wars have created...the men/women returning home with visible and invisible wounds....we ask them to go and now we thank them how? no jobs...no medical help...and we are the 'greatest' country in the world....really?

How is military spending a dead end compared to the private sector? People get paid for a service, contractors get paid to provide a product, etc.

 

[strollingbones]

marty it has to do with generation of spending....you spend x amount in military and it generates x amount...you spend x amount in the private sector and it will generate 2(x)

let me try to find an article that explains this.....it is return for the money concept...

 

[strollingbones]

here is an article addressing government spending in general

The Impact of Government Spending on Economic Growth

 

[candycorn]

Republicans block Senate bill to boost veterans' benefits - CSMonitor.com.

Senate Republicans BLOCKED $24 Billion Dollar Spend Bill for Veteran's Health Care and Education on February 27, 2014. The vote was 54 Democrats in favor, 41 Republicans opposed. Even with a majority vote the bill was defeated by the Republicans.

41 Republicans refused to vote for money that would benefit the Health Care and Education of our Veterans.

Next.

The fact that if there had been no Illegal, Immoral and Unconstitutional War(s) in Afghanistan and Iraq, there would be no scandal in Veteran's Administration.

But because the shrub and dead-eye dick(less) lied this country into those wars, with strong ConJob, NeoNut, RePug and TeaHadist support.

Every fucking Conservative at this forum wanted these wars and supported these wars.

Do not blame Secretary Shinseki for YOUR blind absolute, unconditional support for two wars that should never have been fought. If those wars had not been fought, the current crisis would not be happening.

You people wanted those fucking wars.

The blame is in fact yours.

Nonsense...the VA scandal has little to do with the volume of patients. If these officials who perpetrated this criminal act actually did this, they would have done it given any volume of patients.

Whomever was involved needs to spend a very long time in a very small cell. Hopefully in a military stockade guarded by the brethren of those they did this almost unthinkable dis-service to.

Work-load is no excuse for sloppy work.

 

[strollingbones]

Robert Barro reviewed the experience of World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, and came up with a multiplier of 0.8, which means that government outlays actually “lowered components of GDP aside from military purchases.” He and Charles Redlick figured that military spending generated a multiplier greater than one only with very high levels of unemployment, well above current levels.

Federal Spending: Killing the Economy With Government Stimulus - Forbes

you will enjoy that one it trashes obama pretty badly

 

[Edgetho]

Here to give your butt-buddy a reach-around, huh?

Look, you stupid fucks.

1) Every dimocrap scumbag in Congress voted for the Afghanistan War except one, and that fucking douche is gone now. Even dimocrap scum told heer to piss off.

Meaningless. If we only had the Afghan vets to worry about, we wouldn't have the issues.

2) Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans comprise only 7% of the Veterans seen by the VA and only 4% of the money spent.

Link?

Poll: Majority of Iraq, Afghan war vets struggle with physical and mental problems ? Health ? Bangor Daily News ? BDN Maine

Iraq and Afghanistan vets are making unprecedented use of the Department of Veterans Affairs, largely because of an Obama administration decision to provide five years of free VA health care to all of them. Of the 1.7 million who are no longer serving in the active, reserve or National Guard forces, more than 1 million have obtained health-care services at least once from the VA since 2002 and about 45 percent of them have sought compensation for service-related disabilities. By comparison, about 21 percent of those who fought in the 1990-91 Persian Gulf War filed similar claims.

3) You two are some seriously stupid fucks.

I mean mouth-breathing, drool-cup stupid.

Do you ever read your own posts to see how irrational you sound most of the time?

I don't know why I bother with a serial liar like you, but I will this one last time....

The VA's budget has been exploding, even as the number of veterans steadily declines. From 2000 to 2013, outlays nearly tripled, while the population of veterans declined by 4.3 million.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: VA Health Spending Per Patient Exploded Amid Chronic Treatment Delays - Investors.com
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

Some will argue that the increase in health spending was the direct result of all those wounded warriors coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan.
But these vets aren't driving VA costs higher.

A Congressional Budget Office report found that they cost $4,800, on average, in 2010 compared with $8,800 for other veterans who used the system.

It also found that while these Iraq and Afghan vets account for 7% of those treated, they were responsible for only 4% of its health costs.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: VA Health Spending Per Patient Exploded Amid Chronic Treatment Delays - Investors.com
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

This information has been out there for days. Weeks, maybe. It's been posted in here several times.

But that's not the problem

You're a scumbag. All of you are.

That's the problem.

The problem isn't that we don't agree on policy, the problem is that you're scumbags.

The problem isn't that we both want what's best for America and Americans but through different approaches, the problem is you're scumbags and don't even like America or Americans.

The problem isn't that you're a democrat and I'm a Republican, the problem is that you're a scumbag.

The problem isn't that some people have been left out of the American Dream and want in, the problem is that you're scumbags.

Lying, dishonest, corrupt, diseased scumbags.

And I'll tell you why? Faced with all these facts, with all this evidence, you'll still never admit to being wrong...... About anything.

Right is right and wrong is wrong. Except to you. Because you're a scumbag.

 

[tinydancer]

Oh just fuck off. I've put up the budgets and they've been going up steadily.

Not just steadily. Their budget is at an all time high. FFS you Leftytoons and your definitions. Not increasing something more is not a cut.

Has it increased enough to cover the 15 fold increase in disabled veterans?

What makes you claim more money isn't needed for more doctors and facilities to handle the huge increase? Just because Democrats already increased the VA budget? Doesn't mean it is funded adequately yet imo.....and never has been funded adequately.....

And here you go again....not supporting the increased funding for the VA to cover the increased demand.....sheesh Politico.....

Give me a break. This has nothing at all with funding. Nothing. Nada. It is a matter of staff hiding wait times.

Oh and getting mega bonuses for meeting strategic goals by lying.

 

[Care4all]

Not just steadily. Their budget is at an all time high. FFS you Leftytoons and your definitions. Not increasing something more is not a cut.

Has it increased enough to cover the 15 fold increase in disabled veterans?

What makes you claim more money isn't needed for more doctors and facilities to handle the huge increase? Just because Democrats already increased the VA budget? Doesn't mean it is funded adequately yet imo.....and never has been funded adequately.....

And here you go again....not supporting the increased funding for the VA to cover the increased demand.....sheesh Politico.....

Where did you get the "15 fold" increase number?

And why I am I not surprised at the typical progressive response, "throw money at the problem" even though there is already a ton of money being thrown into it.

I should not have used the term disabled vets Marty, I should have said Veterans.....

In a recent change, we are allowing all Veterans from the Iraq war and the Afghanistan war, Use the VA for 5 years after their return....

Obamacare came in to effect requiring all citizens to have health insurance....notices were sent to all Veterans telling them that they can use the VA as their insurance and will not be penalized for not having private health insurance....

We just got a note in the mail from the VA requesting that Matt register with the VA system if he is going to be using it, just this past week, with a website to register....he is already registered with them because he is a Disabled vet and has been using the VA medical system so it seemed weird that we would get this notification from the VA....but it looks like this was a mass mailing to all VEts, not just those who have used the system already, but so that these people can get some sort of exemption code or something so that they will not be fined for not having health insurance if they don't have it? I dunno?

They could be trying to get a handle on how many iraq and afghan vets are going to be using the system as their health care provider under Obamacare....

THIS is why I KNOW, there is not enough money...because these Vets that are not disabled, will be using the VA as their form of health care if they do not have private insurance.....

Anyway, this will take away the Docs and nurses away from those vets who are disabled once these folks hit the system....it is in anticipation of this, the foresight to acknowledge this, that needs to be taken in to consideration when funding the VA....

And also, the fact that injuries from war are so much more costly than one would expect....

THIS DOES NOT NEGATE or excuse the pieces of crud people that doctored their waiting lists to cover their lacking response times in medical help...the admins part of these schemes should be fired and then tried for neglect of their responsibilities... causing the death of other human beings. And we need to look for a VISIONAIRY to run the VA, that can foersee future problems, and can figure out a way to improve the efficiency of the VA and their handling of patients.

We also need to consider paying Doctors more money who work for the VA, so more can be recruited or held on to...retained.

We also need to get Vets returning from war, working again, in the Private sector, with private health care insurance coverage so they won't stress the VA even more than what is necessary...

 

[tinydancer]

Well about that lack of funding......

How can the VA be carrying over a lack of funding kind of surplus for the past 5 years?

But the VA did have money for medical care. Unlike the rest of the government, it was running a surplus.

The Obama administration’s Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) expects to have more money for medical care than it can spend for the fifth fiscal year in a row, The Daily Caller has learned.

VA expects to carry over $450 million in medical-care funding from fiscal year 2014 to fiscal year 2015. VA received its full requested medical care appropriation of $54.6 billion this fiscal year, which is more than $10 billion more than it received four years ago.

This is part of an ongoing trend.

VA carried over $1.449 billion in medical-care funding from fiscal year 2010 to 2011, $1.163 billion from fiscal year 2011 to fiscal year 2012, $637 million from fiscal year 2012 to 2013, and $543 million from fiscal year 2013 to 2014.

VA Nickel and Dimed Vets to Death While Running a Surplus for 5 Years | FrontPage Magazine

 

[Care4all]

Not just steadily. Their budget is at an all time high. FFS you Leftytoons and your definitions. Not increasing something more is not a cut.

Has it increased enough to cover the 15 fold increase in disabled veterans?

What makes you claim more money isn't needed for more doctors and facilities to handle the huge increase? Just because Democrats already increased the VA budget? Doesn't mean it is funded adequately yet imo.....and never has been funded adequately.....

And here you go again....not supporting the increased funding for the VA to cover the increased demand.....sheesh Politico.....

Give me a break. This has nothing at all with funding. Nothing. Nada. It is a matter of staff hiding wait times.

Oh and getting mega bonuses for meeting strategic goals by lying.

WHY were these admins HIDING WAIT times, why were the wait times so LONG? Years in some cases?

Do you know?


....this goes much deeper than pastry Tiny D.... you are not even coming close to addressing the problem with wait times and service if you are only concerned with the people lying about the wait times with secret lists....

Sure, those people are criminals in my book,

BUT THE REAL PROBLEM, the ROOT of the problem is NOT them, but the wait times themselves.

 

[Edgetho]

Has it increased enough to cover the 15 fold increase in disabled veterans?

What makes you claim more money isn't needed for more doctors and facilities to handle the huge increase? Just because Democrats already increased the VA budget? Doesn't mean it is funded adequately yet imo.....and never has been funded adequately.....

And here you go again....not supporting the increased funding for the VA to cover the increased demand.....sheesh Politico.....

Give me a break. This has nothing at all with funding. Nothing. Nada. It is a matter of staff hiding wait times.

Oh and getting mega bonuses for meeting strategic goals by lying.

WHY were these admins HIDING WAIT times, why were the wait times so LONG? Years in some cases?

Do you know?


....this goes much deeper than pastry Tiny D.... you are not even coming close to addressing the problem with wait times and service if you are only concerned with the people lying about the wait times with secret lists....

Sure, those people are criminals in my book,

BUT THE REAL PROBLEM, the ROOT of the problem is NOT them, but the wait times themselves.

They were hiding the wait times so they could get bonuses based on goals set down by the obama administration and the VA.

They were gaming the system.

They need to go to prison. For a long, long time. And I mean a LOT of them need to go to prison. Not just some poor schmuck whose turn it is in the barrel. A LOT of them

 

[tinydancer]

Please note that the VA has received it's full requested medical care budget.

 

[Care4all]

Give me a break. This has nothing at all with funding. Nothing. Nada. It is a matter of staff hiding wait times.

Oh and getting mega bonuses for meeting strategic goals by lying.

WHY were these admins HIDING WAIT times, why were the wait times so LONG? Years in some cases?

Do you know?


....this goes much deeper than pastry Tiny D.... you are not even coming close to addressing the problem with wait times and service if you are only concerned with the people lying about the wait times with secret lists....

Sure, those people are criminals in my book,

BUT THE REAL PROBLEM, the ROOT of the problem is NOT them, but the wait times themselves.

They were hiding the wait times so they could get bonuses based on goals set down by the obama administration and the VA.

They were gaming the system.

They need to go to prison. For a long, long time. And I mean a LOT of them need to go to prison. Not just some poor schmuck whose turn it is in the barrel. A LOT of them

WHY WERE THERE WAIT TIMES in the first place Ed?

THAT is the $64000 question and HOW can these wait times be reduced?

Are we unable to hire more doctors, or retain doctors at the salary the VA pays them? Or is it total incompetence in near every VA that is reporting long wait times? What is making the wait times so long???

 

[Care4all]

Please note that the VA has received it's full requested medical care budget.

In your opinion, what has caused the WAIT TIMES to be so long in nearly every VA?

 

[Darkwind]

Republicans block Senate bill to boost veterans' benefits - CSMonitor.com.

Senate Republicans BLOCKED $24 Billion Dollar Spend Bill for Veteran's Health Care and Education on February 27, 2014. The vote was 54 Democrats in favor, 41 Republicans opposed. Even with a majority vote the bill was defeated by the Republicans.

41 Republicans refused to vote for money that would benefit the Health Care and Education of our Veterans.

Next.

The fact that if there had been no Illegal, Immoral and Unconstitutional War(s) in Afghanistan and Iraq, there would be no scandal in Veteran's Administration.

But because the shrub and dead-eye dick(less) lied this country into those wars, with strong ConJob, NeoNut, RePug and TeaHadist support.

Every fucking Conservative at this forum wanted these wars and supported these wars.

Do not blame Secretary Shinseki for YOUR blind absolute, unconditional support for two wars that should never have been fought. If those wars had not been fought, the current crisis would not be happening.

You people wanted those fucking wars.

The blame is in fact yours.

So, can you name the poison pill the Democrats placed in the bill so that the GOP would vote against it which then gave them the optic that the GOP was against veterans?

That happens 99% of the time, do you realize that?

 

[tinydancer]

Give me a break. This has nothing at all with funding. Nothing. Nada. It is a matter of staff hiding wait times.

Oh and getting mega bonuses for meeting strategic goals by lying.

WHY were these admins HIDING WAIT times, why were the wait times so LONG? Years in some cases?

Do you know?


....this goes much deeper than pastry Tiny D.... you are not even coming close to addressing the problem with wait times and service if you are only concerned with the people lying about the wait times with secret lists....

Sure, those people are criminals in my book,

BUT THE REAL PROBLEM, the ROOT of the problem is NOT them, but the wait times themselves.

They were hiding the wait times so they could get bonuses based on goals set down by the obama administration and the VA.

They were gaming the system.

They need to go to prison. For a long, long time. And I mean a LOT of them need to go to prison. Not just some poor schmuck whose turn it is in the barrel. A LOT of them

This is turning into one hell of a sick joke. To claim there is not enough funding but the sons of bitches are carrying over surpluses is plain flat out looney tunes.

They have received what they have requested and the one article has them at 10 billion more than four years ago.

For crying out loud are the left wing that nuts that despite all the proof to the contrary they are still going to cry poor for the VA?

 

[Care4all]

WHY were these admins HIDING WAIT times, why were the wait times so LONG? Years in some cases?

Do you know?


....this goes much deeper than pastry Tiny D.... you are not even coming close to addressing the problem with wait times and service if you are only concerned with the people lying about the wait times with secret lists....

Sure, those people are criminals in my book,

BUT THE REAL PROBLEM, the ROOT of the problem is NOT them, but the wait times themselves.

They were hiding the wait times so they could get bonuses based on goals set down by the obama administration and the VA.

They were gaming the system.

They need to go to prison. For a long, long time. And I mean a LOT of them need to go to prison. Not just some poor schmuck whose turn it is in the barrel. A LOT of them

This is turning into one hell of a sick joke. To claim there is not enough funding but the sons of bitches are carrying over surpluses is plain flat out looney tunes.

They have received what they have requested and the one article has them at 10 billion more than four years ago.

For crying out loud are the left wing that nuts that despite all the proof to the contrary they are still going to cry poor for the VA?

the carry over, was this money for hiring medical doctors and nurses? Are we having a hard time hiring Doctors and nurses due to the amount of money the gvt pays them vs what they can make in the Private sector and this is the surplus carry over money?

Aren't you even the least bit curious as to what is actually causing the "wait time" problem with the VA? Or is this ALL ABOUT POLITICS to you TD?

I don't know how much more money the VA will need or not need...

to me, we need to find out what is CAUSING their wait time lag problems first, then we can address whether we need more money or not....I won't rule out either, we could need more money to solve the problem or we could just need some heavy duty revamping the system with no money involved....ONLY finding out what is CAUSING our wait time problems, can give us an answer to the money issue....

 

[tinydancer]

They were hiding the wait times so they could get bonuses based on goals set down by the obama administration and the VA.

They were gaming the system.

They need to go to prison. For a long, long time. And I mean a LOT of them need to go to prison. Not just some poor schmuck whose turn it is in the barrel. A LOT of them

This is turning into one hell of a sick joke. To claim there is not enough funding but the sons of bitches are carrying over surpluses is plain flat out looney tunes.

They have received what they have requested and the one article has them at 10 billion more than four years ago.

For crying out loud are the left wing that nuts that despite all the proof to the contrary they are still going to cry poor for the VA?

the carry over, was this money for hiring medical doctors and nurses? Are we having a hard time hiring Doctors and nurses due to the amount of money the gvt pays them vs what they can make in the Private sector and this is the surplus carry over money?

Aren't you even the least bit curious as to what is actually causing the "wait time" problem with the VA? Or is this ALL ABOUT POLITICS to you TD?

I don't know how much more money the VA will need or not need...

to me, we need to find out what is CAUSING their wait time lag problems first, then we can address whether we need more money or not....I won't rule out either, we could need more money to solve the problem or we could just need some heavy duty revamping the system with no money involved....ONLY finding out what is CAUSING our wait time problems, can give us an answer to the money issue....

The VA has asked and received the money they said they needed. They have surpluses.

Hiding the wait times is the key here. And they did it on a grand scale. It is criminal behavior period full stop because veterans have died.

How on earth can I tell you who screwed up on presenting the budgets to Congress? Or how can I determine why they were hiding wait times and getting bonuses for running " smooth "operations.

They've gotten every dime they've asked for. This is why an IG is on the case.

 

[asterism]

If the VA debacle is a result of not enough money, where did the funds for the fraudulent bonuses come from?