The truth on being saved.

[Avatar4321]

"You were born guilty, Vandal. "

Sorry, Jere. I'm not buying it. It goes against my concept of justice to be found guilty before I was born because of something Adam did (who I don't believe existed anyway).

Nor I. You will be punished for your own sins. Not Adams Transgression

 

[Avatar4321]

I never suggested he leave. Just that it seems imprudent to complain about proselyting when you voluntarily enter a religious forum.

BTW daws. My ass doesn't talk. If it did, I'd probably smell really bad. And your cut and paste job really didn't address anything I said about faith.

Faith has and does change the lives of countless individuals.

dodge....it was a direct answer to your question...also I knew what your answer would be...denial..

Colonialism has absolutely nothing to do with faith changing lives. Which is what we are talking about.

Try talking for yourself instead of cutting and pasting irrelevant nonsense.

Faith changes lives for the better. You claim it doesn't.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I agree with you in this statement here, Emily - but I would make some clarifications on that and also the bible is clear many will not accept the salvation of the Lord Jesus Christ. First our Spirit must be "born again." The Word renews and transforms our mind. We present our body as a living sacrifice unto God holy and acceptable unto God which is our reasonable service. What you wrote above in your reply to myself and someone else I didn't see earlier but I cannot agree with that part.... Also in your other reply you said that forgiveness is the healer but that is not true. Jesus Christ is the healer and only he can heal. It is not forgiveness that heals but Jesus Christ. It is written, By his stripes we were healed. 1 Peter 2:24. - Jeri

Emily wrote:
it starts in the SPIRIT
then transforms the MIND
then manifests in the BODY

thoughts, words, actions
spiritual, mental, physical[/QUOTE]

 

[daws101]

I never suggested he leave. Just that it seems imprudent to complain about proselyting when you voluntarily enter a religious forum.

BTW daws. My ass doesn't talk. If it did, I'd probably smell really bad. And your cut and paste job really didn't address anything I said about faith.

Faith has and does change the lives of countless individuals.

dodge....it was a direct answer to your question...also I knew what your answer would be...denial..

Colonialism has absolutely nothing to do with faith changing lives. Which is what we are talking about.

Try talking for yourself instead of cutting and pasting irrelevant nonsense.

Faith changes lives for the better. You claim it doesn't.

still dodging..

"Bold claim. Of course you can't support it.

I know of people who didn't murder themselves because of faith. When they were at their lowest point, so much so that they had the gun in their hands, they stopped because of faith and divine intervention.

I know people who have been healed miraculously through faith.

How many wars haven't happened? Countless im sure but wars that don't happen rarely make history.

Read the story of Alma Smith who was shot at the Haun's Mill Massacre sometime. Then tell me faith doesn't save people."-Avatar
YOU DO REMEMBER POSTING THE ABOVE?
MY ANSWER PROVED YOUR STATEMENT FALSE..

CHRISTIAN COLONIALISM DESTROYED THE FAITH OF COUNTLESS INDIGENOUS PEOPLE..
To deny that is not just dishonest ,it's willful ignorance at it's finest...

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

"You were born guilty, Vandal. "

Sorry, Jere. I'm not buying it. It goes against my concept of justice to be found guilty before I was born because of something Adam did (who I don't believe existed anyway).

Nor I. You will be punished for your own sins. Not Adams Transgression

This is the exact point where the Mormons miss it, Avatar. Jesus Christ is identified as the second Adam because you were indeed born into this world with the sin of Adam upon your soul. All mankind was born into this world with Adams sin. It was inherited just as you inherited things from your own parents . . . You were born spiritually "dead".. which is why Jesus said, Ye must be born again.

Once you are born again you are to come out from among them and be ye separated which for you will mean coming out from the false teachers & the Mormon Church. I will return later - God willing - I have some things to do..

 

[daws101]

"You were born guilty, Vandal. "

Sorry, Jere. I'm not buying it. It goes against my concept of justice to be found guilty before I was born because of something Adam did (who I don't believe existed anyway).

Nor I. You will be punished for your own sins. Not Adams Transgression

This is the exact point where the Mormons miss it, Avatar. Jesus Christ is identified as the second Adam because you were indeed born into this world with the sin of Adam upon your soul. All mankind was born into this world with Adams sin. It was inherited just as you inherited things from your own parents . . . You were born spiritually "dead".. which is why Jesus said, Ye must be born again.

Once you are born again you are to come out from among them and be ye separated which for you will mean coming out from the false teachers & the Mormon Church. I will return later - God willing - I have some things to do..

FALSE, I DID NOT INHERIT MY FATHER OR MOTHERS "SINS" OR MISTAKES..
IF by your belief adam & eve had not "sinned" we would not exist ..that whole concept is nonsense..

 

[Vandalshandle]

"You were born guilty, Vandal. "

Sorry, Jere. I'm not buying it. It goes against my concept of justice to be found guilty before I was born because of something Adam did (who I don't believe existed anyway).

Okay. I believe you are being sincere about that, Vandal. Something I have always admired about you is your honesty. You are more honest than some people who tell me they're saved. I admire that about you. I think I should go and if Daws wants to discuss something I will find it later. I hope you have a good day today, Vandal. - Jere

..and my best wishes to you, too, Jere.

 

[kjw47]

Dear KJW and Jeremiah:
I believe that Jesus is Justice for all, as the Messiah or Message for all humanity.
thus I believe in Universal Salvation but on God's level not in the way we think so limited.

We think in linear time and space, while God's mercy and love transcends all that.

I know what keeps us FROM God's grace and salvation is
UNFORGIVENESS the one blasphemy, against the Holy Spirit, God cannot overcome.
We must FREELY choose to ASK God's help with forgiveness before his will can be done.
Otherwise God will not override our free will if we do not ask help to forgive.

I believe all humanity will eventually submit and admit we need God's/divine help
to forgive that which we cannot let go on our own. Our minds are too conditioned
to remember and hold grudges or biases, forgiving one thing but hating another.
We will ALWAYS have our biases toward one person/group more or against another.
Only God through Christ can express love equally and inclusively for all people without
these biases we have as humans. So our love is not perfect, but together, joined in Christ, collectively God's will and love can cover and include all humanity. Just not by ourselves.

As for the steps of salvation, each of these require letting go and forgiving in order to receive, but at three different levels:

1. first is to receive a child of God who represents God's love and forgiveness

all people I know who have any knowledge of God laws and love have started out
by receiving others. especially since this is about RELATIONS with God that are reflected in our RELATIONS with others. if we forgive, God forgives us. Where we do not let others in but cut them out, God cuts us out. We learn that we get what we give in RELATION with others, thus we learn about our RELAtIONSHIP with God through Christ

2. second is that once we receive a child of God we also receive Jesus

secondly to make the commitment ourselves to embrace responsibility for Jesus or Justice by conscience, where we live by the laws ourselves, where we agree to follow this

3. finally we call upon the name of the Lord in order to be save

through this relationship then when we ask forgiveness and mercy we receive it

Since humanity is body mind and spirit. We receive in spirit, then we commit our minds, and then it becomes manifested throughout the body. Collectively all humanity as body/mind/spirit becomes one in harmony as represented by God/Christ/HolySpirit

===================================================

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( 2 Corinthians 11:12-15)

FORGIVENESS
that is the key to receiving SALVATION by GRACE

it starts in the SPIRIT
then transforms the MIND
then manifests in the BODY

thoughts, words, actions
spiritual, mental, physical

Learning Jesus' truths and applying Jesus' truths is Gods will--afterall God commanded--- This is my son the beloved whom I have approved--listen to him-- 99% claiming to be Christian do not know Jesus' truths. thus have failed to do Gods will--you think its handed on a silver platter from grace---Jesus taught--- those who do the will of my Father in heaven will enter his kingdom( receive grace to eternal life) Matt 7:21--- the key to all is to learn Jesus' truths and apply Jesus' truths--- do you know Jesus' truths?

 

[kjw47]

My reading of the Bible is different. Only one of the thieves was saved. Rather then give my analysis of the various biblical passages, I offer the following from a Christian website:

“Remember this story of the two thieves when considering what path you are on. Both were guilty, both sinners deserving punishment, however only one ended up with Christ in Heaven when he died. Ultimately, there is only one choice we can make that matters in this life. Do we believe or do we not? We are all sinners, all guilty, all deserving punishment. Do we believe in Jesus or do we not? So I ask you, which one are you?”

No the thief did not go to heaven on that day--trinity translations erred in the placement of the comma--it reads-- Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.--
Jesus went to hell( grave) for 3 days and entered heaven 40 days later. Jesus was the first from the earth to enter heaven. So the thief did not enter heaven on that day-proving the comma belongs where I have shown it to belong.

No. It is accurate. The comma is in the right place. The Scriptures are not mistaken. You are. Paradise was inside the earth ( where hell is also located - the center of the earth ) and there was a gulf between hell and paradise no one could cross over from one side to the other.

This is why the rich man in hell could see Lazarus and Abraham. They were in Paradise - not heaven. This was before the resurrection.. that very day the man went to Paradise where Jesus did go below to minister and those were then taken up into heaven on the third day.. when he took the keys to hell and on the third day ascended into heaven as did those in Paradise go to heaven - all those he redeemed - I will give you scriptures for it. Hold on.

Hebrew = sheol= greek = hades=English=hell-- the first two translate-- the common grave of mankind thus so does hell.
Paradise will be on earth after Harmageddon when Gods kingdom is in full control of all creation.
If the rich man and Lazarus was literal--anyone in heaven looking down and seeing their loved ones suffering like that would not find happiness--they would find pain--and Gods word clearly teaches that mourning, outcry or pain will be no more in Gods kingdom. proving it is not literal but symbolic--and besides anyone who actually knows God knows the teaching of a place of eternal torment is a sadistic lie by teachers of darkness that do not in reality know God or his son.
Its an impossibility for the thief to enter heaven on that day he died--Jesus was the first to enter heaven and it was 43 days after that day--the trinity translations are filled with errors.

 

[Chuckt]

Its an impossibility for the thief to enter heaven on that day he died--Jesus was the first to enter heaven and it was 43 days after that day--the trinity translations are filled with errors.

Do you believe in hell and or the trinity?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( 2 Corinthians 11:12-15)

You can know a man is saved if the Holy Spirit has a reason for letting you know. I led a dying man to the Lord via telephone call Long distance some years ago. He was a Catholic man who had unforgiveness in his heart unbeknownst to me. He was on his death bed. He said the sinners prayer, accepted Christ as a free gift - not works based - he understood - I hung and thought he was saved. That night I am praying the Holy Ghost says to me, He is not saved. I said, I went over everything with him, he accepted Christ - ( Romans 10:8 ) how can he not be saved? The Holy Spirit tells me he has unforgiveness. I call him back the next day. I say to him this isn't finished yet. The Lord says you have unforgiveness in your heart, is it your mother? Is it your ex wife? He says Ex - wife! The Whore! He tells me everything the woman did to grieve him to the core - I tell him that I understand how difficult it is to forgive some people - it is even what would seem impossible but would he be willing to say Lord, I am willing to let you forgive her through me? He said, Sure! The moment he said, Sure! I said to him, God is writing your name in the lambs book of life right now. He cried out, I know! I see his hand engraving my name. On a tablet of granite. He is writing Andrew! I tell you the truth. It was one of the most dramatic conversions I have ever been a part of. I can feel that moment to this day. He died shortly afterwards and went straight to heaven.

As for Joel Osteen? He is a false teacher. He will be in hell if he doesn't repent. Don't listen to anything he says. Have a nice evening. - Jeri

Only those who do Gods will will enter his kingdom-Matt 7:21--- these lived daily by every utterance of God. Just as Jesus taught one to do--unfortunately for the majority--they do not listen to Jesus. That is why Jesus knew---FEW will find the road that leads to life( eternal)----- so speaking words on a death bed does not get ones name written in the book of life.

The thief on the cross would beg to differ. He had about a breath left to say, "Remember me....." and was in Paradise that day. As long as you think your salvation is based on your life and not Christ's life, you'll struggle to get to Heaven every day till you die. Peace will elude you.

God's will is for His children to have eternal life, and He will do anything it make it so. That includes being slow to anger, rapid to forgive, erasing your sins with the blood of His Son, and giving us a perfect righteousness under which to be judged.
And thank God. Look at your first sentence. I failed already. I did not utter His words today while I cooked breakfast, I did later, then I didn't, but then I did again.............
If you were God, I'd be screwed.

The laws God gave specifically to the Jews are not bad laws. Think of what the world would be like if we all kept just the Big 10. The bad part was the punishment.
Today there are not enough rocks on earth to stone adulterers with. If adulterers were given death sentences like they were under the Law, not so many would be so flippant about doing it. But those who did were shown no mercy. Death was the sentence.

It was the punishment Christ took in our place (after a flawless performance of His own) so we wouldn't have to be punished even though we are the ones that deserved it. How much more could you be loved? It is still wrong to commit theft or murder, or envy, but the offense that you will commit next Saturday, was scrutinized, and forgiven and erased on the cross. And then He died. Because that was the penalty we would have received under the law. Our covenant exists of being covered in Christ's blood as a blemish remover. Your Father doesn't accuse. Satan does. Write your sins down on a piece of paper. Now pour a can of red paint on the paper. Now hand it to Satan. Judge this......

And then Jesus rose. Because death has no power over the righteous. And He has people to forgive and little lambs to care for. You are the little lamb.
Accept what He did for you and what a bright future you have in store for you all because of the love He showed you first.

Then go and love each other. That is the will of God. Start with that rule. The rest will fall into place as fruit, not legalities.

 

[HUGGY]

With all the nonsense Christians think and speak how do you mofo's decide who is crazy?

Or does just any bullshit go? Is ANY hallucination too wack for you people to buy into?

A day does not go by that I don't thank my lucky stars that I don't think like you idiots.

Why are there any laws against fraud at all?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( 2 Corinthians 11:12-15)

Agreed. But why single out Joel Osteen? Seems to me most evangelical or fundamental faiths preach the same thing? That is, "say these words" are you are written in the Lamb's Book of Life or something to that effect? Now it is true, some say you can backslide and be lost (again) but they still appear to offer this "blessed assurance."

The Catholic Church says nothing of the sort. They emphasize charity over faith, not to diminish faith of course because it too has immeasurable importance. But what the Catholic Church is saying is that one can be saved even if he has no knowledge of Jesus Christ. That is how merciful and loving and just is our God.

Note: The first shall be last... and the last shall be first. And most will be in purgatory long before they see heaven.

I agree with you, Turzovka, that many in the evangelical churches are teaching a wide road gospel message and it is not found in the bible. But the truth is Romans 10: 8 - 13 is still Romans 10: 8 -15 whether they obey the rest of the Word of God or not. What does Romans 10:8 - 15 say?

It is written:

But what does it say? The Word is near you, it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That is that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scriptures says, Anyone who trusts in him shall never be put to shame. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile - the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring the good news! - Romans 10: 8 - 15

So rather than following a false teacher / doctrine of devils which tells you there is some other way to heaven other than believing Jesus Christ we must believe the Bible and accept what Paul said - that though an angel appeared to you bringing some other gospel it should be rejected - it is accursed as is the one who sends it, Turzovka. . . but know that the false teachers abound and not just those who of the Roman Catholic Church but also of the evangelical as you so well point out and also the other denominations - truly the tares are among the wheat in every congregation and no where more prominent than in the leadership of the churches. ( of every denomination including your own )

I see you realize that without holiness no one shall see the Lord so believe that and live holy every day of your life Turzkova and God shall not fail you either. Just do not deny Jesus Christ before men nor depart from His Word because Jesus said any man who denies me before men I shall deny before the Father. ( It is written )

To be clear your fear that someone would not hear the gospel of Jesus Christ is unfounded as the bible says that this gospel shall be preached to all nations before the end comes. May the Lord bless you as you seek to do his will, Turzkova. He alone is worthy of your devotion. * Augustine deeply loved God you know.. so did Guyon, Molinos, Savonarolla, Theresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Thomas Aquinas, Thomas A Kempis - Therese of Liseaux - the priest she discipled "Maurice "... this was never about an indictment against individuals - Helena Kowalska was so pure in her heart that she felt convicted of going to a school dance at the age of 14 she went into the convent. Okay? She was also cruelly tormented by the nuns around her who envied her spirituality which isn't an exclusive to the RCC either - evangelicals do it too - still she layed herself out on her face in the sign of the cross to pray for their souls - You don't know her by her real name probably - the name you know her by is Faustina - that was your Apostle of mercy - so the RCC appointed her but truly her relationship with Christ was in spite of her overseers not because of them... it is has been that way through the ages - Turzkova - the question always comes down to one - shall I do what is pleasing to God or pleasing to man? Because there are plenty of religious devils about that would put you on a pedestal if only you did it "their way"!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

"You were born guilty, Vandal. "

Sorry, Jere. I'm not buying it. It goes against my concept of justice to be found guilty before I was born because of something Adam did (who I don't believe existed anyway).

Okay. I believe you are being sincere about that, Vandal. Something I have always admired about you is your honesty. You are more honest than some people who tell me they're saved. I admire that about you. I think I should go and if Daws wants to discuss something I will find it later. I hope you have a good day today, Vandal. - Jere

..and my best wishes to you, too, Jere.

Thank you, Vandal. You are one precious guy.

 

[hobelim]

With all the nonsense Christians think and speak how do you mofo's decide who is crazy?

Or does just any bullshit go? Is ANY hallucination too wack for you people to buy into?

A day does not go by that I don't thank my lucky stars that I don't think like you idiots.

Why are there any laws against fraud at all?

If such believers hadn't fucked up the lives of billions of people for thousands of years it would be kind of funny.

The people who claim to have such great faith as to believe that God diddled a virgin to father himself so he could be born without a human father to save mankind by being scorned ridiculed and crucified before he floated up into the sky find it too hard to believe that they might be wrong...

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Nor I. You will be punished for your own sins. Not Adams Transgression

This is the exact point where the Mormons miss it, Avatar. Jesus Christ is identified as the second Adam because you were indeed born into this world with the sin of Adam upon your soul. All mankind was born into this world with Adams sin. It was inherited just as you inherited things from your own parents . . . You were born spiritually "dead".. which is why Jesus said, Ye must be born again.

Once you are born again you are to come out from among them and be ye separated which for you will mean coming out from the false teachers & the Mormon Church. I will return later - God willing - I have some things to do..

FALSE, I DID NOT INHERIT MY FATHER OR MOTHERS "SINS" OR MISTAKES..
IF by your belief adam & eve had not "sinned" we would not exist ..that whole concept is nonsense..

Yes, you did. Do you know what a generational curse is, Daws? It comes from the generations before you. How did you get here?

Next you say that I am stating if Adam and Eve had not sinned we would not exist. That is not true either. What did God desire for Adam and Eve to do? Be fruitful and multiply. You'd still be here alright. So would I.

So your third claim - "that the whole concept is nonsense" isn't true either. Next?

 

[Chuckt]

Yes, you did. Do you know what a generational curse is, Daws? It comes from the generations before you. How did you get here?

Next you say that I am stating if Adam and Eve had not sinned we would not exist. That is not true either. What did God desire for Adam and Eve to do? Be fruitful and multiply. You'd still be here alright. So would I.

So your third claim - "that the whole concept is nonsense" isn't true either. Next?

Generational curses only affect non-christians. I don't want this to become a gotcha moment but I have already proved generational curses wrong.

It is more correctly called inherited sin.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I would prefer daws101 stay, Avatar. The Love of Christ compels me to say that because truly these are the ones Christ came for. I will tell you another thing I have noticed about some people who have been the most difficult cases - they make the most glorious saints. I think about Paul. I think about Augustine who had a son out of wedlock with a woman he was living with before he gave his life to Christ and had a true conversion of his soul. The list is endless and the worse they are the more I feel the love of God compelling me towards them. I didn't always feel that way. Now I do.

THE DIFFERENCE IS i NOT ONE OF THOSE CHARACTERS.....A LEAST YOUR DELUSION IS A GENTLE ONE....
I expect if god existed he would accept me for who I am, if for no other reasons than I gained a wisdom in life that conformists like yourselves could never hope to gain..and to shake up your religious complacency by questioning it..

You are correct in that you are not Augustine, Daws. You are a unique individual, fearfully and wonderfully made in the image of God. As you say you expect God would accept you for who you are I have very good news for you. He does.

Daws, I can also assure you when it comes to my faith in God I am not complacent in the least about it. Now tell me about this wisdom of life you have gained and I will tell you about a King who was given more wealth, more land, by God than any other King who has ever lived - even to this very day and all because he asked God for wisdom in how to lead such a vast kingdom which he had inherited from his father, King David. 1 Kings 3: 9 - Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Yes, you did. Do you know what a generational curse is, Daws? It comes from the generations before you. How did you get here?

Next you say that I am stating if Adam and Eve had not sinned we would not exist. That is not true either. What did God desire for Adam and Eve to do? Be fruitful and multiply. You'd still be here alright. So would I.

So your third claim - "that the whole concept is nonsense" isn't true either. Next?

Generational curses only affect non-christians. I don't want this to become a gotcha moment but I have already proved generational curses wrong.

It is more correctly called inherited sin.

No baby is born saved, Chuck. Therein generational curses do factor in and with that I was giving him an example of things "inherited" of which our inheriting Adams sin would be another. I hope that clarifies what I am doing concerning my reply to Daws.

- Jeri

 

[Chuckt]

Yes, you did. Do you know what a generational curse is, Daws? It comes from the generations before you. How did you get here?

Next you say that I am stating if Adam and Eve had not sinned we would not exist. That is not true either. What did God desire for Adam and Eve to do? Be fruitful and multiply. You'd still be here alright. So would I.

So your third claim - "that the whole concept is nonsense" isn't true either. Next?

Generational curses only affect non-christians. I don't want this to become a gotcha moment but I have already proved generational curses wrong.

It is more correctly called inherited sin.

No baby is born saved, Chuck. Therein generational curses do factor in and with that I was giving him an example of things "inherited" of which our inheriting Adams sin would be another. I hope that clarifies what I am doing concerning my reply to Daws.

- Jeri

Maybe I'm splitting hairs but maybe you mean something different than what I hear being referred to as generational curses.