The truth on being saved.

[turzovka]

There is no purgatory; just sheep and goats.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Yes, thanks. You so wise, you who had to wait 1500 for God to tell the right story to Martin. You who cherry picks the verses to keep your story going. You who thinks "saved" means more than it does. You who is sure when Revelations says "nothing defiled shall enter the kingdom" thinks it is speaking to those in hell. Which makes no sense.

I have "The Creeds of Christiandom" and the Church's first creeds were the Bible.
The Catholic church refused to let the common man read the Bible and the monks were destroying the Bible.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1,14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin, or sins committed before salvation, is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must in any sense pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins – that indicates Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.

What does the Bible say about Purgatory?

Luke 23:34 "Father forgive them, they know not what they do."

Later...

 

[Chuckt]

Yes, thanks. You so wise, you who had to wait 1500 for God to tell the right story to Martin. You who cherry picks the verses to keep your story going. You who thinks "saved" means more than it does. You who is sure when Revelations says "nothing defiled shall enter the kingdom" thinks it is speaking to those in hell. Which makes no sense.

If your church forbids the common man to read the Bible then God has to talk to somebody.
You say it as if you don't believe it but since your church had a lot to do with the common man not being allowed to read the Bible, it isn't unbelievable because the information is there in the text that was suppressed and there is a lot of motivation behind it.

 

[Chuckt]

Yes, thanks. You so wise, you who had to wait 1500 for God to tell the right story to Martin. You who cherry picks the verses to keep your story going. You who thinks "saved" means more than it does. You who is sure when Revelations says "nothing defiled shall enter the kingdom" thinks it is speaking to those in hell. Which makes no sense.

I have "The Creeds of Christiandom" and the Church's first creeds were the Bible.
The Catholic church refused to let the common man read the Bible and the monks were destroying the Bible.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1,14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin, or sins committed before salvation, is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must in any sense pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins – that indicates Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.

What does the Bible say about Purgatory?

Luke 23:34 "Father forgive them, they know not what they do."

Later...

I know what I'm doing and I can defend what I'm doing if you care to face me instead of say, "later".

 

[turzovka]

I have "The Creeds of Christiandom" and the Church's first creeds were the Bible.
The Catholic church refused to let the common man read the Bible and the monks were destroying the Bible.



What does the Bible say about Purgatory?

Luke 23:34 "Father forgive them, they know not what they do."

Later...

I know what I'm doing and I can defend what I'm doing if you care to face me instead of say, "later".

If I did not care to face you I would not have said "later."

Two points: 1. I currently have to do my job and so I better put that ahead of these discussions. 2. I would respect you and your time if you were in the same kind of situation.

 

[Chuckt]

Luke 23:34 "Father forgive them, they know not what they do."

Later...

I know what I'm doing and I can defend what I'm doing if you care to face me instead of say, "later".

If I did not care to face you I would not have said "later."

Two points: 1. I currently have to do my job and so I better put that ahead of these discussions. 2. I would respect you and your time if you were in the same kind of situation.

Now I understand.
Fair enough.

 

[The Professor]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( 2 Corinthians 11:12-15)

And Jesus saved two men dying on a cross with him that he did not know.

My reading of the Bible is different. Only one of the thieves was saved. Rather then give my analysis of the various biblical passages, I offer the following from a Christian website:

“Remember this story of the two thieves when considering what path you are on. Both were guilty, both sinners deserving punishment, however only one ended up with Christ in Heaven when he died. Ultimately, there is only one choice we can make that matters in this life. Do we believe or do we not? We are all sinners, all guilty, all deserving punishment. Do we believe in Jesus or do we not? So I ask you, which one are you?”

The Two Thieves - Which One Are You? | Christian Sentry

 

[Avatar4321]

Christians are amusing little self absorbed creatures..

Perhaps, but I dont think you are in a position to talk there.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

"God's word"?

Which God?​

Its very sad if one needs to ask which God---There is but one in reality--YHWH(Jehovah)

Ahhhhh... The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran.

Good to know. When discussing 'God' these days it helps to be specific. There are SO many Gods from which to choose.

 

[Avatar4321]

The Spirit can tell us if we are saved. We can recieve the More Sure Word of Prophecy.

We shouldn't judge the salvation of others though. We can encourage them to walk with Christ, but we can never know their heart save by the power of God.

 

[Avatar4321]

There is no purgatory; just sheep and goats.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Yes, thanks. You so wise, you who had to wait 1500 for God to tell the right story to Martin. You who cherry picks the verses to keep your story going. You who thinks "saved" means more than it does. You who is sure when Revelations says "nothing defiled shall enter the kingdom" thinks it is speaking to those in hell. Which makes no sense.

I have "The Creeds of Christiandom" and the Church's first creeds were the Bible.
The Catholic church refused to let the common man read the Bible and the monks were destroying the Bible.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1,14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin, or sins committed before salvation, is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must in any sense pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins – that indicates Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.

What does the Bible say about Purgatory?

So where did Christ go between His death and Resurrection? And why did Paul use Proxy Baptism on behalf of the dead to argue for the reality of the resurrection?

 

[Chuckt]

Yes, thanks. You so wise, you who had to wait 1500 for God to tell the right story to Martin. You who cherry picks the verses to keep your story going. You who thinks "saved" means more than it does. You who is sure when Revelations says "nothing defiled shall enter the kingdom" thinks it is speaking to those in hell. Which makes no sense.

I have "The Creeds of Christiandom" and the Church's first creeds were the Bible.
The Catholic church refused to let the common man read the Bible and the monks were destroying the Bible.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1,14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin, or sins committed before salvation, is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must in any sense pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins – that indicates Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.

What does the Bible say about Purgatory?

So where did Christ go between His death and Resurrection? And why did Paul use Proxy Baptism on behalf of the dead to argue for the reality of the resurrection?

There were two compartments. The dead went to hell and the righteous went to Abraham's bosom until Jesus led captivity captive but they had salvation and were already waiting for Jesus to take the righteous.

The Mormon explanation about baptism for the dead is wrong:

Paul used this example from the pagans in 1 Cor. 15:29, when he said, "...if the dead are not raised, then why are they baptized for the dead?" Paul did not say we.2

This is significant because the Christian church was not practicing baptism for the dead, but the pagans were.

What is baptism for the dead mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:29?|Christian church was not practicing baptism for the dead | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( 2 Corinthians 11:12-15)

You can know a man is saved if the Holy Spirit has a reason for letting you know. I led a dying man to the Lord via telephone call Long distance some years ago. He was a Catholic man who had unforgiveness in his heart unbeknownst to me. He was on his death bed. He said the sinners prayer, accepted Christ as a free gift - not works based - he understood - I hung and thought he was saved. That night I am praying the Holy Ghost says to me, He is not saved. I said, I went over everything with him, he accepted Christ - ( Romans 10:8 ) how can he not be saved? The Holy Spirit tells me he has unforgiveness. I call him back the next day. I say to him this isn't finished yet. The Lord says you have unforgiveness in your heart, is it your mother? Is it your ex wife? He says Ex - wife! The Whore! He tells me everything the woman did to grieve him to the core - I tell him that I understand how difficult it is to forgive some people - it is even what would seem impossible but would he be willing to say Lord, I am willing to let you forgive her through me? He said, Sure! The moment he said, Sure! I said to him, God is writing your name in the lambs book of life right now. He cried out, I know! I see his hand engraving my name. On a tablet of granite. He is writing Andrew! I tell you the truth. It was one of the most dramatic conversions I have ever been a part of. I can feel that moment to this day. He died shortly afterwards and went straight to heaven.

As for Joel Osteen? He is a false teacher. He will be in hell if he doesn't repent. Don't listen to anything he says. Have a nice evening. - Jeri

Only those who do Gods will will enter his kingdom-Matt 7:21--- these lived daily by every utterance of God. Just as Jesus taught one to do--unfortunately for the majority--they do not listen to Jesus. That is why Jesus knew---FEW will find the road that leads to life( eternal)----- so speaking words on a death bed does not get ones name written in the book of life.

You are partly right and partly wrong, Ksj. I agree with you on the first part. You are right. Only those who walk as Jesus did and obey Him will enter the kingdom of heaven. The bible is clear that no liars, no homosexuals, no idolaters, no drunkards, no fornicators, no greedy persons, no extortioners no cowardly or unbelieving persons - these such persons will not enter the Kingdom of heaven whether they are christians or not. Without holiness no one will see the Lord. The Lord said FEW would find the narrow path. Yet you surprise me as one who walks the narrow path should know what Jesus said, and Jesus did not take both thieves to paradise. Let us look the story:

It is written:

And "set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS KING OF THE JEWS.

Then there were two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left. And they passed by reviled him, wagging their heads. And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself, If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Likewise, also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said, He saved others, himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. He trusted in God let him deliver him now, if he will have him, for he said, I am the Son of God.

The thieves also, cast the same in his teeth. - Matthew 27: 44

In this story it appears both thieves were agreeing with those mocking him. According to the account of Matthew. But listen to Luke's account. Watch this.

It is written:

And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other one answering rebuked him, Saying Dost thou not fear God, seeing thou are in the same condemnation?

And we indeed justly, for we receive our due rewards of our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong.

And he said unto Jesus, Lord remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And said said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, today thou shalt be with me in paradise.
- Luke 23: 39,38,40,41, 42, 43

Now why did one thief go to heaven whereas the other thief went to hell? One repented and the other did not. Right before he died too. Just like the Catholic man who repented of his sins, accepted Christ and was willing to forgive his ex wife. He is in heaven just as the thief next to Jesus who repented is in heaven. Now listen to this:

One said, in so many words . . . ------------->If you are the Son of God, come down off of that cross, save yourself and get me out of my trouble here and get me off of this cross too! He completely overlooks he deserves this death. He refuses to even admit he deserves this death or that he is guilty of anything! ( He says "us" but truly this man is interested in saving no one but himself - he is probably the one who got the other thief to steal! )

Now look at the response of the other thief who realizes this is the Son of God and that he has done nothing wrong in claiming to be the Son of God because he "is" the Son of God. His eyes have been opened to the truth.

What does he tell the other thief hanging there? In modern language . . . Be quiet! We deserve this death! This man has done nothing wrong! Do you not fear God as you are right now about to die on a cross the same as I am? He turns to Jesus knowing this other thief is not right in his own heart - yes, he comes to his senses and says, Jesus, Lord, remember "me" when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus recognizing this man has just repented in his heart for his sins and acknowledged him as His Savior, says to him, I accept you. Today you will be with me in paradise.

What mercy! What love!

_____________________

Here is the bottom line, Ksj. The story of the thief at the cross proves that one can be saved on their death bed, at the time of their execution in a prison, at the hour of their last breath in a car accident.... at the very last moment of their life. They can call upon the name of the LORD and be saved and enter into heaven. But why wait? Why not repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ today and live holy unto him, serving him and allowing him to use you for his Kingdom?

While you are 100% correct that without holiness no one will see the Lord you are wrong that someone could not be saved at the hour of their death. It happens all the time.

It cost God everything to send his Only Begotten Son to the cross for you and I. It is our reasonable service to present our bodies as a living sacrifice unto him and to live holy unto him every single day of our lives. Those who have cheapened the grace of God into a lie ( sin all you want and get heaven in the end ) are not only going to find themselves in hell one day but they are also going to be responsible for having misled others into believing you can have this world and its pleasures with heaven at the end of it all. It isn't true and I am glad you pointed that out. ( by their teaching these lies they are leading others to hell ) The Truth: Without holiness no one will see the Lord. Get on the narrow path and follow Jesus. Have a blessed day. - Jeri p.s. I need to tell you that while I have discerned in my spirit before someone was saved at the time - I cannot possibly tell you whether that person would be in heaven or hell later on. It depends on whether they continue to live a holy life and endure until the end obeying Jesus. If they turn back into sin - and die in that state - they will be in hell. So on that account I would say that no man or woman knows who will be in heaven and who will not be in heaven. * also someone who could have been out there for a long time sinning could repent, return to Christ, die shortly thereafter and you would not know of that either. One might assume the person went to hell when in fact that one went to heaven.

 

[kjw47]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( 2 Corinthians 11:12-15)

Agreed. But why single out Joel Osteen? Seems to me most evangelical or fundamental faiths preach the same thing? That is, "say these words" are you are written in the Lamb's Book of Life or something to that effect? Now it is true, some say you can backslide and be lost (again) but they still appear to offer this "blessed assurance."

The Catholic Church says nothing of the sort. They emphasize charity over faith, not to diminish faith of course because it too has immeasurable importance. But what the Catholic Church is saying is that one can be saved even if he has no knowledge of Jesus Christ. That is how merciful and loving and just is our God.

Note: The first shall be last... and the last shall be first. And most will be in purgatory long before they see heaven.

Catholicism is very wrong---- Jesus taught--Matt 7:21--- those who do the will of my Father in heaven will enter his kingdom( receive eternal life)----- Gods will = this is my son the beloved whom I have approved--listen to him--- one had better know Jesus and his truths if they expect to enter Gods kingdom---Jesus even taught this at John 17:1-6-- to get eternal life--one must know( Father--the one who sent Jesus) and know Jesus--Jesus taught that the one who sent him= Father= THE ONLY TRUE GOD-- verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah)

 

[kjw47]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( 2 Corinthians 11:12-15)

And Jesus saved two men dying on a cross with him that he did not know.

My reading of the Bible is different. Only one of the thieves was saved. Rather then give my analysis of the various biblical passages, I offer the following from a Christian website:

“Remember this story of the two thieves when considering what path you are on. Both were guilty, both sinners deserving punishment, however only one ended up with Christ in Heaven when he died. Ultimately, there is only one choice we can make that matters in this life. Do we believe or do we not? We are all sinners, all guilty, all deserving punishment. Do we believe in Jesus or do we not? So I ask you, which one are you?”

No the thief did not go to heaven on that day--trinity translations erred in the placement of the comma--it reads-- Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.--
Jesus went to hell( grave) for 3 days and entered heaven 40 days later. Jesus was the first from the earth to enter heaven. So the thief did not enter heaven on that day-proving the comma belongs where I have shown it to belong.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

kjw, I apologise I thought your s/n was kjs. On the matter of Catholics, I remember meeting a born again Catholic who became a client of mine years ago. He was indeed saved and the Lord led him to stay with the Roman Catholic church to lead others to accept Christ on the basis of Jesus Christ death at the cross - his shed blood being the reason their sins were forgiven and that they could not save themselves by charitable works.

Still faith without works is dead so if the Catholic person has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior, has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ in the heart and confessed him with their mouth and is living holy unto the Lord they are as saved as any other person is. It is not the church you are attending but the matter of your own heart and have you accepted Christ? Are you living holy unto the Lord or giving him lip service?

I tell you the truth, I believe there will be catholic believers in heaven. Why not? Was Jeanne Guyon Catholic? Yes. I believe she is in heaven as I cannot imagine she turned back from the Lord after the things she suffered. I cannot know it for certain but in my heart I'd like to believe she is enjoying heaven and all who are there. Please read the life of Jeanne Guyon before lumping all Catholics together. I don't believe you can possibly do that with any church and that would most certainly include the evangelical church, non denominational churches, lutheran, methodist, any.. name any and you shall have your tares growing among the wheat.. I believe I have the heart of God on that matter. If not he will surely correct me. p.s. on not agreeing with RCC leadership & doctrines - pray for them.

 

[Avatar4321]

Or it simply proves that heaven and paradise where the righteous dead await the resurrection are not the same place.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

And Jesus saved two men dying on a cross with him that he did not know.

My reading of the Bible is different. Only one of the thieves was saved. Rather then give my analysis of the various biblical passages, I offer the following from a Christian website:

“Remember this story of the two thieves when considering what path you are on. Both were guilty, both sinners deserving punishment, however only one ended up with Christ in Heaven when he died. Ultimately, there is only one choice we can make that matters in this life. Do we believe or do we not? We are all sinners, all guilty, all deserving punishment. Do we believe in Jesus or do we not? So I ask you, which one are you?”

No the thief did not go to heaven on that day--trinity translations erred in the placement of the comma--it reads-- Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.--
Jesus went to hell( grave) for 3 days and entered heaven 40 days later. Jesus was the first from the earth to enter heaven. So the thief did not enter heaven on that day-proving the comma belongs where I have shown it to belong.

No. It is accurate. The comma is in the right place. The Scriptures are not mistaken. You are. Paradise was inside the earth ( where hell is also located - the center of the earth ) and there was a gulf between hell and paradise no one could cross over from one side to the other.

This is why the rich man in hell could see Lazarus and Abraham. They were in Paradise - not heaven. This was before the resurrection.. that very day the man went to Paradise where Jesus did go below to minister and those were then taken up into heaven on the third day.. when he took the keys to hell and on the third day ascended into heaven as did those in Paradise go to heaven - all those he redeemed - I will give you scriptures for it. Hold on.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Saved from what? Sounds like I was born guilty. Sounds more like God's fault than mine. Maybe he should either lighten up, or stop being so judgmental.

 

[daws101]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( 2 Corinthians 11:12-15)

And Jesus saved two men dying on a cross with him that he did not know.

did he?

 

[daws101]

He also said:

John 6:47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
John 5:24 I can guarantee this truth: Every believer has eternal life.
John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,

^ How I rest assured of my future.
And you can tell if a man is saved by the fruit he produces through the Holy Spirit. And if his beliefs are rooted in Christ.

Hi Jeri.

belief never saved anybody ..