The Truth about Mormons

[chloe]

Yeshua (Jesus) did have a religion. He was Jewish. Matter of fact, that is the reason He was in Jerusalem when He was crucified, He was there to celebrate Passover.

He debated with rabbis in the Temple, He did a lot of things, and was pretty observant also.

So why didnt people just become Jewish like Jesus?

 

[chloe]

God organized all the intelligences into their original forms. Some chose to disobey him and others to follow, but yes God did make Satan. He did not make him into what he is though.

So satan was like a disobediant child of God?

 

[Truthspeaker]

So satan was like a disobediant child of God?

precisely

 

[Truthspeaker]

So why didnt people just become Jewish like Jesus?

WEll everybody already was jewish already. It was a matter of believing the new and challenging doctrine that christ was putting forth. that he was the messiah they were waiting for, not some general announcing himself in a blaze of fire and glory. He won't do that until his second coming.

 

[chloe]

I liked hinkley better, I cried when he died. Ok I get everything you & abikersailor said the last two pages thanks.

 

[ABikerSailor]

WEll everybody already was jewish already. It was a matter of believing the new and challenging doctrine that christ was putting forth. that he was the messiah they were waiting for, not some general announcing himself in a blaze of fire and glory. He won't do that until his second coming.

Ummmm.......no. Everyone WAS NOT Jewish as you claim, as there were the Jews, and there were the Nations of the World, which is to say, everyone else.

Jesus didn't come for the Jews, he came for everyone else, as those were the ones that didn't understand God, as there was pagan worship and idolatry. Jesus even said it repeatedly in the Gospels that He came for the nations, not Israel.

And, it wasn't a "new and challenging doctrine" as you claim, as Jesus was a good Jewish boy.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I liked hinkley better, I cried when he died. Ok I get everything you & abikersailor said the last two pages thanks.

I really loved President Hinckley. He was the nicest guy ever.

 

[Eightball]

You didn't read my posts because I know you couldn't have read through all the pages that fast. Therefore you remain in your ignorance of our faith. Please if you read my posts, prove it and tell me where I didn't address any of your questions.

Your spouting typical "Mormon Speak" taught to you by your elders........"Non Mormons don't know the truth, though they may rely on the bible, they don't have the full truth and that is only from the LDS Prophets, and the BOM, and your discourses, and articles.".

Your BOM has had 4,000+ alterations, yet you have the truth?

Why did your church remove "Article 11"?

Many parts of the BOM are direct plagureistic writings from the bible.

Also your BOM uses King James 1611 language, which wasn't the language of the early church.

There are so many "holes" in your belief system, but you just pridefully smirk and really don't see yourselves as persecuted, but as holders of the "truth" handed down from a man who totally failed the tests of a true prophet of God.

Some day, you'll have to really ponder what you've been promoting, and how real and validated what you espouse trully is.

Mormons need to repent of their sins just like any other human being, and totally fall on the mercy and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Christ who is of the Triune Godhead, not the Christ that once was a mere man like yourself, and became a god or saviour.

The Blasphemy of your religion to teach that we humans can become gods of our own planets.

God said their can and will not be any other gods before me! Mormons have totally disregared that command.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Ummmm.......no. Everyone WAS NOT Jewish as you claim, as there were the Jews, and there were the Nations of the World, which is to say, everyone else.

Jesus didn't come for the Jews, he came for everyone else, as those were the ones that didn't understand God, as there was pagan worship and idolatry. Jesus even said it repeatedly in the Gospels that He came for the nations, not Israel.

And, it wasn't a "new and challenging doctrine" as you claim, as Jesus was a good Jewish boy.

I am certainly not claiming everyone in the world was jewish at the time of christ. You can't possibly assume that I meant it that way. However Jesus did his preaching among the Jews and the vast majority of the people he taught were jews. That is what I was saying.
I would stand by my statement as well that he was preaching challenging new doctrine. That is what got the Parisees and Saducees all riled up and eventually got Jesus killed. No one else was preaching new doctrines. Except oh yeah John the Baptist, and he got 86'd as well. Yes I would venture to say that he rocked the boat a little with some new teachings which would explain why the Jews were "astonished at his doctrine."

 

[ABikerSailor]

I am certainly not claiming everyone in the world was jewish at the time of christ. You can't possibly assume that I meant it that way. However Jesus did his preaching among the Jews and the vast majority of the people he taught were jews. That is what I was saying.
I would stand by my statement as well that he was preaching challenging new doctrine. That is what got the Parisees and Saducees all riled up and eventually got Jesus killed. No one else was preaching new doctrines. Except oh yeah John the Baptist, and he got 86'd as well. Yes I would venture to say that he rocked the boat a little with some new teachings which would explain why the Jews were "astonished at his doctrine."

No, I didn't assume that you thought everyone was Jewish. I said there were Jews and there were the Nations (everyone OTHER THAN Jews), which is whom Jesus came for.

No, the vast majority of people that Jesus taught were not Jews. They were people from the Nations, and, one of the reasons that the High Priest wanted Jesus turned over to the Romans was because He was teaching the Nations the same thing that the Jews knew. And, when He said that "no man gets to the Father except by Me", he was telling them that they needed to pay attention to Him, so that they could approach Father in the right way.

Matter of fact, Judas was the treasurer of the group, as well as was Jesus' best friend, and Jesus chose him to turn Him over to the priests, who in turn, after they'd had their say with Him, turned Him over to the Romans. The reason that had to happen was because Jesus had to get a face to face with the High Priest. Once the High Priest was done with Him, he turned Jesus over to the Romans for execution.

I find it interesting that it took the combined force of 2 different civilizations to bring Him down.

Might wanna bounce the Book of Mormon Myths against the Torah dude. Your belief system needs a tune up.

 

[B94]

It is interesting to compare the death of Joseph Smith with that of Jesus. In Isaiah 53:7 we read: "He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth." In the New Testament it is claimed that Christ fulfilled this prophecy (see Acts 8:32). He died without resistance. In 1 Peter 2:23 we read: "Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously."
When Peter tried to defend Jesus with the sword, Jesus told him to "put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?" (John 18:11).
It is claimed that before Joseph Smith was murdered in the Carthage jail he stated: "I am going like a lamb to the slaughter"... (Doctrine and Covenants, 135:4).
Most Mormons believe that Joseph Smith died without putting up a struggle, but the actual truth is that he died in a gunfight. In the History of the Church the following account is given concerning Joseph Smith's death:
Immediately there was a little rustling at the outer door of the jail, and a cry of surrender, and also a discharge of three or four firearms followed instantly... Joseph sprang to his coat for his six-shooter, Hyrum for his single barrel....
When Hyrum fell, Joseph exclaimed, "Oh dear, brother Hyrum!" and opening the door a few inches he discharged his six shooter in the stairway (as stated before), two or three barrels of which missed fire.Joseph, seeing there was no safety in the room, and no doubt
thinking that it would save the lives of his brethren in the room if he could get out, turned calmly from the door, dropped his pistol on the floor, and sprang into the window ... and he fell outward into the hands of his murderers...
In the introduction to volume 6 of the History of the Church, page XLI, Joseph Smith is praised for his part in the gunfight: "... the Prophet turned from the prostrate form of his murdered brother to face death-dealing guns and bravely returned the fire of his assailants, 'bringing his man down everytime,' and compelling even John Hay, who but reluctantly accords the Prophet any quality of virtue, to confess that he 'made a handsome fight.'..."
From the preceding information it can be seen that the death of Joseph Smith can in no way be compared to the death of Jesus. Jesus did go like a "lamb to the slaughter," but Joseph Smith died like a raging lion.
Today the Joseph Smith of Mormon adoration is a highly romanticized version of the real Joseph Smith. While possessing natural abilities and talents, his personal character was far from the saintly image his followers mold him into. His strong egotism and drive for power, together with his deceptive practices led ultimately to his destruction.

The above was taken from here -

Changing World Chapter 17

Which was at this link -

The Changing World of Mormonism Contents

 

[Truthspeaker]

Your spouting typical "Mormon Speak" taught to you by your elders........"Non Mormons don't know the truth, though they may rely on the bible, they don't have the full truth and that is only from the LDS Prophets, and the BOM, and your discourses, and articles.".

Your BOM has had 4,000+ alterations, yet you have the truth?

Why did your church remove "Article 11"?

Many parts of the BOM are direct plagureistic writings from the bible.

Also your BOM uses King James 1611 language, which wasn't the language of the early church.

There are so many "holes" in your belief system, but you just pridefully smirk and really don't see yourselves as persecuted, but as holders of the "truth" handed down from a man who totally failed the tests of a true prophet of God.

Some day, you'll have to really ponder what you've been promoting, and how real and validated what you espouse trully is.

Mormons need to repent of their sins just like any other human being, and totally fall on the mercy and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Christ who is of the Triune Godhead, not the Christ that once was a mere man like yourself, and became a god or saviour.

The Blasphemy of your religion to teach that we humans can become gods of our own planets.

God said their can and will not be any other gods before me! Mormons have totally disregared that command.

Now I REALLY know that you didn't read the link that i posted for your enjoyment because I address the changes made to the book of mormon. I told you it was a lengthy article so you obviously just lost patience with the idea of reading it.
As for "gods before me" you don't even know the context of the scripture. God was talking to Moses about IDOL WORSHIP.
You didn't read 1 Corinthians 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, as there be gods many, and lords many.
Just because He wants to make his children gods in the eternities doesn't mean they are "Before Me". We will still worship him forever and ever. We will all be unified and Christ made it all possible.

By the way I don't know where you think we removed article 11 but we didn't and here it goes:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Your accusations regarding plagiarism are vague. What was plagiarized? You give no specifics. And wouldn't you think because the Book of Mormon was claimed to be written primarily by descendants of the Jews that they would have similar mannerisms in their speech? Old English certainly wasn't the language of the early church in Israel, but it was the language used in the time of King James' England when the Bible was translated. People of upstate new york would always speak in a more reverent way which was closer to Old English when referring to spiritual issues. We still do it today. Read the declaration of independance, read the letters of George Washington or Benjamin Franklin, they weren't that far off from old english. Joseph Smith in roughly the same time period after those men. Should they speak Ebonics?

Back in the 1800's when people read scriptures, older English was the respectable way to discuss matters of God. The language was not as archaic as King James times but was certainly more formal than todays jargon. Therefore Book of Mormon uses purer English than todays common speech but is easier to understand than King James language. It resembles King James speech and uses many of the phrases like, "and it came to pass"
but it doesn't even matter. What does your argument prove?

I have pondered my religion. I really have put years and hours and days and months into my views. I am certain of what I believe.BUT..... I am not promoting it. I have nothing to gain, no money, no fame, no power by clarifying the truth about what we believe. What would you think then is my motivation? I can't get converts here on the web. I am not trying to get them. I just don't like people misunderstanding us.and no one misunderstands us like you.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Now I REALLY know that you didn't read the link that i posted for your enjoyment because I address the changes made to the book of mormon. I told you it was a lengthy article so you obviously just lost patience with the idea of reading it.
As for "gods before me" you don't even know the context of the scripture. God was talking to Moses about IDOL WORSHIP.
You didn't read 1 Corinthians 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, as there be gods many, and lords many.
Just because He wants to make his children gods in the eternities doesn't mean they are "Before Me". We will still worship him forever and ever. We will all be unified and Christ made it all possible.

By the way I don't know where you think we removed article 11 but we didn't and here it goes:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Your accusations regarding plagiarism are vague. What was plagiarized? You give no specifics. And wouldn't you think because the Book of Mormon was claimed to be written primarily by descendants of the Jews that they would have similar mannerisms in their speech? Old English certainly wasn't the language of the early church in Israel, but it was the language used in the time of King James' England when the Bible was translated. People of upstate new york would always speak in a more reverent way which was closer to Old English when referring to spiritual issues. We still do it today. Read the declaration of independance, read the letters of George Washington or Benjamin Franklin, they weren't that far off from old english. Joseph Smith in roughly the same time period after those men. Should they speak Ebonics?

Back in the 1800's when people read scriptures, older English was the respectable way to discuss matters of God. The language was not as archaic as King James times but was certainly more formal than todays jargon. Therefore Book of Mormon uses purer English than todays common speech but is easier to understand than King James language. It resembles King James speech and uses many of the phrases like, "and it came to pass"
but it doesn't even matter. What does your argument prove?

I have pondered my religion. I really have put years and hours and days and months into my views. I am certain of what I believe.BUT..... I am not promoting it. I have nothing to gain, no money, no fame, no power by clarifying the truth about what we believe. What would you think then is my motivation? I can't get converts here on the web. I am not trying to get them. I just don't like people misunderstanding us.and no one misunderstands us like you.

In your first paragraph, talking about many gods and lords, it kinda sounds a little like it was taken from Buddhism, as they believe that every man and woman can become a Buddha, and that there is nothing higher than a Buddha. However......that theory of each and every one of you getting to become rulers of your own planet? Pure crap.

As far as Jews translating their Bible? Might wanna check again, because the Bible was translated from Hebrew into Greek, and from Greek into Latin and English, so no, unless you speak Hebrew, you can't say that you are using "the language of your ancestors". ESPECIALLY if you claim to be a lost tribe of Israel.

Hate to see that you're pondering a lie though...........

 

[chloe]

I really loved President Hinckley. He was the nicest guy ever.

I like hinkley better then monson

 

[RetiredGySgt]

In your first paragraph, talking about many gods and lords, it kinda sounds a little like it was taken from Buddhism, as they believe that every man and woman can become a Buddha, and that there is nothing higher than a Buddha. However......that theory of each and every one of you getting to become rulers of your own planet? Pure crap.

As far as Jews translating their Bible? Might wanna check again, because the Bible was translated from Hebrew into Greek, and from Greek into Latin and English, so no, unless you speak Hebrew, you can't say that you are using "the language of your ancestors". ESPECIALLY if you claim to be a lost tribe of Israel.

Hate to see that you're pondering a lie though...........

The tablets were not written in English. Joseph Smith had to translate them after being given the gift to do so. You may want to check your facts. Joseph Smith translated the tablets INTO the language used in the Book of Mormon. As to the tablets, I believe there were 6? Witnesses that they existed. And even though I believe some later left the church NONE of them ever recanted their witness.

 

[KittenKoder]

Okay ... I think I may as well post a fact here as I am bored and about to go to bed. Here is the reason the Joseph Smith 'translating' the book is bull, a cute myth that lead to a once decent christian cult, but still myth.

The English they spoke at the time did NOT sound remotely like that, even in England itself. It had already evolved into something of what we speak today, though without many of the technical terms. If he HAD translated it, the language would have come out more like today than like the original translation of the christian bible from Greek to Old English. But the fact that it was translated to Old English (and poorly) shows that it was not translated but most likely invented. There are other minor facts that aid in this but this is just a boredom post and I don't want to get into it all.

 

[Truthspeaker]

In your first paragraph, talking about many gods and lords, it kinda sounds a little like it was taken from Buddhism, as they believe that every man and woman can become a Buddha, and that there is nothing higher than a Buddha. However......that theory of each and every one of you getting to become rulers of your own planet? Pure crap.

As far as Jews translating their Bible? Might wanna check again, because the Bible was translated from Hebrew into Greek, and from Greek into Latin and English, so no, unless you speak Hebrew, you can't say that you are using "the language of your ancestors". ESPECIALLY if you claim to be a lost tribe of Israel.

Hate to see that you're pondering a lie though...........

I said nothing of the sort. You might wanna check up on your reading comprehension.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I like hinkley better then monson

That's fine but they are all nice guys.

 

[Truthspeaker]

It is interesting to compare the death of Joseph Smith with that of Jesus. In Isaiah 53:7 we read: "He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth." In the New Testament it is claimed that Christ fulfilled this prophecy (see Acts 8:32). He died without resistance. In 1 Peter 2:23 we read: "Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously."
When Peter tried to defend Jesus with the sword, Jesus told him to "put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?" (John 18:11).
It is claimed that before Joseph Smith was murdered in the Carthage jail he stated: "I am going like a lamb to the slaughter"... (Doctrine and Covenants, 135:4).
Most Mormons believe that Joseph Smith died without putting up a struggle, but the actual truth is that he died in a gunfight. In the History of the Church the following account is given concerning Joseph Smith's death:
Immediately there was a little rustling at the outer door of the jail, and a cry of surrender, and also a discharge of three or four firearms followed instantly... Joseph sprang to his coat for his six-shooter, Hyrum for his single barrel....
When Hyrum fell, Joseph exclaimed, "Oh dear, brother Hyrum!" and opening the door a few inches he discharged his six shooter in the stairway (as stated before), two or three barrels of which missed fire.Joseph, seeing there was no safety in the room, and no doubt
thinking that it would save the lives of his brethren in the room if he could get out, turned calmly from the door, dropped his pistol on the floor, and sprang into the window ... and he fell outward into the hands of his murderers...
In the introduction to volume 6 of the History of the Church, page XLI, Joseph Smith is praised for his part in the gunfight: "... the Prophet turned from the prostrate form of his murdered brother to face death-dealing guns and bravely returned the fire of his assailants, 'bringing his man down everytime,' and compelling even John Hay, who but reluctantly accords the Prophet any quality of virtue, to confess that he 'made a handsome fight.'..."
From the preceding information it can be seen that the death of Joseph Smith can in no way be compared to the death of Jesus. Jesus did go like a "lamb to the slaughter," but Joseph Smith died like a raging lion.
Today the Joseph Smith of Mormon adoration is a highly romanticized version of the real Joseph Smith. While possessing natural abilities and talents, his personal character was far from the saintly image his followers mold him into. His strong egotism and drive for power, together with his deceptive practices led ultimately to his destruction.

The above was taken from here -

Changing World Chapter 17

Which was at this link -

The Changing World of Mormonism Contents

Yet another person who didn't read my post about the difference between the two martyrdoms. You don't have to die without resistance to be a martyr. I already said no ones martyrdom was equal to Christs. I am proud of the fact that Joseph took a few of his brother's murderers with him. I don't think anyone really thinks there is anything wrong with that.

 

[Dante]

Now I REALLY know that you didn't read the link that i posted for your enjoyment because I address the changes made to the book of mormon. I told you it was a lengthy article so you obviously just lost patience with the idea of reading it.
As for "gods before me" you don't even know ...

If you are this insufferable in real life I think we may be related. My family has recently been compiling a family tree. Are you perchance branched out of the fig tree?


.

I can't believe one man can go on and on and on and on and on about his faith while at the same time bashing people with his christian kindness. Are all your values weapons? How big is that chip on your shoulder?