The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

I have started this post because it still seems there are a lot of people out there that don't understand our religion. One thing I know I can do is clarify a lot misconceptions that people have.
I served a two year mission in South Africa, and I think I have pretty much heard it all. I actually would welcome some questions that I haven't heard before.
I know some of you aren't interested in what we really believe, but are only going to be interested in trying to trap me in my words, but that's ok. I welcome those attempts as well. Let's see what this develops into.

 

[Neubarth]

Truth, I believe in keeping faith simple. The simpler the better. The more you bring religion into it, the more problems you have with misunderstanding and ridicule.

Take for instance the Mormon position that the American Indians were descended from Jewish tribes that immigrated to this continent in two migrations. One across the Atlantic and one across the Pacific under water.

I have fun with that with my Mormon friends and ask them about where the Nuclear Power submarines came from that allowed the Jews/Indians to breath underwater with Oxygen generators... They always have trouble with that one.

Then I ask about all the great cities that the Indians had in the New World, but none of them correspond with the actual locations of archeological digs. I had one good Mormon friend who could only theorize that there were tremendous earthquakes just before Columbus came to the Americas and that those earthquakes moved all of the Indian cities around, as much as five hundred miles in some cases. Do you realize what tremendous tidal waves that would have created? That would have wiped all of the sea ports off of the surface of the earth, yet no tidal waves were reported.

Then add to that the fact that the Indians do not have any Jewish DNA Not a drop in the pure natives of this land. There was a Jewish mountain man by the name of Goldberger who impregnated over 100 Indian women in the late 1700's and early 1800's, but all of his DNA was documented in the Cherokee and various Plaines Indian tribes. What a man!

Nope, dude, it is better that you guys stress that God does forgive sin and that all we have to do to be forgiven is repent and ask for forgiveness and then ask for guidance. IF you teach that, most people can not disagree with you and you will have many followers. That can be a very good thing in this day and age.

 

[xsited1]

I had a lot of Mormon friends when I lived in Phoenix back in the 90s. There aren't many Mormons in Arkansas. I have seen the movies "The God Makers" and "The God Makers II". Quite interesting.

 

[Truthmatters]

Tell me about magic underwear please?

 

[Truthspeaker]

For the shirtless man,(you gotta love a guy who has the guts to post himself shirtless). Bravo!
I am glad that you brought up all those points. Most mormons have not done their homework the way I have. Most don't really have to because, like you said, faith in Christ and good principles are the only thing you really need. However, I find it fun to dig for the truth and mysteries of God. I am grateful to be able to answer your questions because I believe I can do so in a satisfactory manner.
Point number 1: Yes we do believe that many tribes have some bloodline of descendency from people of Israel. But it is not that simple. Herein lies the misconception that even a lot of Mormons hold because they are not as studious of the Book of Mormon as they should be. There were three main migrations spoken of in the Book of Mormon. The nation of Lehites which divided into 2 peoples of the same blood called Nephites and Lamanites. The second people spoken of but often forgotten were the Jaredites. The third, often glossed over completely are the Mulekites. I can delve into each of their histories in detail later if you like, but to sum up. The first people here, the Jaredites actually came from Asiatic area of Babylon. Quite a different DNA scheme. They were the first ever to set foot on this continent. This people as a nation dissolved and spread into unknown parts of the continent, certainly later mixing in with the future nations that would come, first mixing with the Mulekite people, who also came from the land of Jerusalem about 12 years after the more famous Nephites and Lamanites.
I can't remember exactly the study, but I can produce it later if need be that showed that the people of the Americas were found to be primarily descended from Asiatic origins, which would fit perfectly in with the chronology of the Book of Mormon.......whew!

Oh yes, point two, the "Nuclear submarines" in question. The vessels themselves had to be made differently than your normal ship of the day with it's sails and common boat shape. To be clear, the people who first used these vessels were the Jaredites when they were told by God to take up this voyage. To a westerner, I agree, this story does not make much sense. But when put into historical context, it is an impressive stamp on the authenticity of the book.
First it has been well documented that most of what we have learned of Ancient weather and dates of storms and destruction has been discovered in the last 100 years with the carbon dating process and knowledge of Geology and so on. We have learned in this time that there was a great and terrible weather pattern which leveled entire civilizations and left thriving cities, such as Bablyon completely destitute circa 2200 bc, right around the time the jaredites left bablyon. Strikingly, The most learned scientists of 1830 had no such knowledge of this timeline of destruction. Certainly not a poor farmboy named Joseph Smith in upstate rural New York.
Hence had these Jaredites been in regular ships with sails, it would have been a quick destruction for all on board. The construction of the ships was very peculiar, not like a submarine like you have described, but certainly "tight, like unto a dish" as Ether points out. "Ye shall put a hole in the top thereof, that will close tight like unto a dish so that when the mountain waves shall dash upon you, you shall not be broken into pieces. You shall be as a whale in the sea, and I shall cause my winds to blow and a tempest to be thy wind continually blowing toward the promised land." I know I slightly misquoted the scripture in Ether because I don't have my book with me, but those are basically the words spoken to "the brother of Jared" in the book. "And when ye shall suffer for air ye shall unstop the hole when you come to the surface".
They were not submarines. They were boats that would normally float on the water, but because of their shape, could stand for short whiles to be underneath water for a time. Just like a whale that needs to come up for air......whew...
Next point... where was I?
Oh yes, the great cities and their locations. We all know that there have been cities that have been buried by volcanic eruptions, or erased by large earthquakes and floods and such throughout the ages. Then why not in America. But some may say, well certainly not all the cities would be lost right? It would take one heck of a natural disaster wouldn't it? Yes it would.
The book of mormon talks about just such a disaster, where after the death of Christ, Mountains were removed out of their place and fell on cities, giant waves, tornadoes and and vicious earthquakes that lasted for the space of three hours. Do any of us have any idea what would happen if a magnitude 9 earthquake shook for three hours? We do if we look in the book of mormon. Think something like that couldn't happen? Just watch that show on TLC Mega Disasters.

 

[eots]

the truth about mormons..they tend to smile to much..they tend to be polite..and their sock drawers are well organized and stocked and even tho there are 50 pairs in there they will notice if you have barrow a pair cause your not a mormon and therefore all yours are dirty...but being mormon they will just say.. make sure you put them back into their laundry hamper when your done with them so they can be washed and not put them with all your dirty ones ok ?.....

 

[Truthspeaker]

"I had a lot of Mormon friends when I lived in Phoenix back in the 90s. There aren't many Mormons in Arkansas. I have seen the movies "The God Makers" and "The God Makers II". Quite interesting."

It's too bad that you are hearing a one sided point of view from some bitter ex-members that want to portray half-truths. I would like to know what was so interesting.

 

[Truthspeaker]

And Just what is it that you would like to know about "magic underwear"?

 

[Truthspeaker]

the truth about mormons..they tend to smile to much..they tend to be polite..and their sock drawers are well organized and stocked and even tho there are 50 pairs in there they will notice if you have barrow a pair cause your not a mormon and therefore all yours are dirty...but being mormon they will just say.. make sure you put them back into their laundry hamper when your done with them so they can be washed and not put them with all your dirty ones ok ?.....

Scarily, you tend to be right!

 

[xsited1]

"I had a lot of Mormon friends when I lived in Phoenix back in the 90s. There aren't many Mormons in Arkansas. I have seen the movies "The God Makers" and "The God Makers II". Quite interesting."

It's too bad that you are hearing a one sided point of view from some bitter ex-members that want to portray half-truths. I would like to know what was so interesting.

One thing that I found interesting was Mormon Baptism for the Dead.

 

[chloe]

Actually you can talk to different Mormons from different Wards and they will give you there version of the interpretation of the book of mormon and it will be different then what the last brother or sister said. Additionally a lot of Mormons who come to Utah become disenchanted by the snootiness and cliques the Church has out here. It really depends on who you know who you talk to and how they interpret what the church says.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Actually you can talk to different Mormons from different Wards and they will give you there version of the interpretation of the book of mormon and it will be different then what the last brother or sister said. Additionally a lot of Mormons who come to Utah become disenchanted by the snootiness and cliques the Church has out here. It really depends on who you know who you talk to and how they interpret what the church says.

Well actually it doesn't depend on what interpretations people have. There are going to be a lot of mormons who will be in a lot more trouble at the judgment day than non-mormons because they fail to listen to the prophet and the official translations of all doctrines. there is no room for interpretation of official doctrines. Every thing I will say will be based on official church doctrine, otherwise I will say it is just my opinion.

 

[Truthspeaker]

One thing that I found interesting was Mormon Baptism for the Dead.

What questions do you have about baptism for the dead?

 

[chloe]

Hmm I wonder how many Bishops believe that. Also Relief Society is quite different depending on the Ward as well.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Hmm I wonder how many Bishops believe that. Also Relief Society is quite different depending on the Ward as well.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you asking how many bishops believe in preaching official church doctrine? If someone is found preaching false church doctrine, they are taken to church court and disciplined and if necessary, excommunicated.

 

[chloe]

I mean that depending on who you talk to you get contradictory versions of how they interpret the book of mormon. The Best Ward I ever went to was in the Taylorsville/Murray area, I loved the relief society there it was like a "Group Therapy" for women. But if you visit some in Bluffdale Herriman you will have a totally different experience. Perhaps its because of The Allred Family influence who knows.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Also how do you mean, Relief Societies are different from ward to ward. In what way? what have you seen that makes you say this.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Well, I can't help that some people give you contradictory interpretations, as individuals often do, but I can pretty much assure you that if you go to a bishop and certainly a stake president, you will get the same story every time. those are the people you need to be asking if there is a debate. I would tend to be right with the stake presidency, but if I am wrong, they would be right, though I wouldn't give misinformation.
the ultimate end of debate on doctrine is the Prophet Thomas S. Monson, who I try to emulate in his teachings.

 

[chloe]

Thats good of you. I am just telling you its kinda like how people interpret the bible differently and you wonder if they are reading the same book, this happens in utah alot with the book of mormon. I have a lot of mormon friends , heck I was once married to a mormon. My Mormon friends do laugh at the fact that some mormons have a drastically different interpretation of the book.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Yes you are right, and those people with wild interpretations tend to be the ones who don't go to church too often or don't read the book or other scriptures that often. Fortunately there is only one valid interpretation of scriptures. The Prophet's. He tells us the correct one so there doesn't have to be confusion.