The true living God

[alang1216]

I'm doing great, the other 99% of the world's population, not so much. I'm not complaining about my lot, I'm sympathetic about all the others. I seem to care more about them than God does and he has the power to ease their suffering.

Why would it matter if it were your lot? It’s still complaining about the unfairness of life and blaming God for it. The reality is that you know God isn’t responsible because you don’t believe God exists. It’s just a convenient excuse to confirm your bias which is based upon a biased misunderstanding of scripture, faulty logic and poor observations.

True, I don't believe God exists. I also don't believe my atheism is 'biased'. I believe I do understand scripture, have good logic, and make accurate observations. I see people of faith as the biased ones, biased by their faith, forcing reality to conform to their faith. I have no faith so that is not an issue for me.

I’m still scratching my head about what you previously wrote.

So you have never made the argument or implied that since life isn’t just or fair there can be no God?

Never made that argument. I understand the appeal of Christianity where the meek will inherit the earth. I don't believe it but if that is God's plan it's as good a plan as any.

It is not the suffering, it is the illogic of the suffering that tells me an intelligence is not behind it. Maybe if I knew God's plan I'd feel differently but he hasn't made it known to me. Do you know it? If you do, please explain, if you don't, why do you assume there is one? Faith-based bias?

 

[ding]

I'm doing great, the other 99% of the world's population, not so much. I'm not complaining about my lot, I'm sympathetic about all the others. I seem to care more about them than God does and he has the power to ease their suffering.

Why would it matter if it were your lot? It’s still complaining about the unfairness of life and blaming God for it. The reality is that you know God isn’t responsible because you don’t believe God exists. It’s just a convenient excuse to confirm your bias which is based upon a biased misunderstanding of scripture, faulty logic and poor observations.

True, I don't believe God exists. I also don't believe my atheism is 'biased'. I believe I do understand scripture, have good logic, and make accurate observations. I see people of faith as the biased ones, biased by their faith, forcing reality to conform to their faith. I have no faith so that is not an issue for me.

I’m still scratching my head about what you previously wrote.

So you have never made the argument or implied that since life isn’t just or fair there can be no God?

Never made that argument. I understand the appeal of Christianity where the meek will inherit the earth. I don't believe it but if that is God's plan it's as good a plan as any.

It is not the suffering, it is the illogic of the suffering that tells me an intelligence is not behind it. Maybe if I knew God's plan I'd feel differently but he hasn't made it known to me. Do you know it? If you do, please explain, if you don't, why do you assume there is one? Faith-based bias?

How is suffering illogical? Is happiness illogical too?

You keep trying to make sense of suffering in a vacuum. Is suffering all you see?

You can’t say that something is bad or unfair without first knowing what is good or fair. So there must be goodness and fairness in the world that it is being compared to. Why have you not done a full accounting?

I’m not the one who is bringing up a plan. You are the one who keeps bringing it up. You were given an incredibly rare and wonderful gift. The question is what are you going to do with it. What’s your plan?

 

[alang1216]

How is suffering illogical? Is happiness illogical too?

You keep trying to make sense of suffering in a vacuum. Is suffering all you see?

You can’t say that something is bad or unfair without first knowing what is good or fair. So there must be goodness and fairness in the world that it is being compared to. Why have you not done a full accounting?

I’m not the one who is bringing up a plan. You are the one who keeps bringing it up. You were given an incredibly rare and wonderful gift. The question is what are you going to do with it. What’s your plan?

What is the logic behind suffering or happiness? If there is an intelligence behind it there must be a logical reason. Agreed? Would you also agree that suffering is not evenly distributed, some, like me, get very little some get more than they can take. Is there a logic you'd like to share?

You make the case that suffering can be good and in some cases that is true. However, I see many cases where the good that comes from suffering doesn't seem to balance the pain it inflicts. There seems to be no logic or intelligence at work.

 

[ding]

How is suffering illogical? Is happiness illogical too?

You keep trying to make sense of suffering in a vacuum. Is suffering all you see?

You can’t say that something is bad or unfair without first knowing what is good or fair. So there must be goodness and fairness in the world that it is being compared to. Why have you not done a full accounting?

I’m not the one who is bringing up a plan. You are the one who keeps bringing it up. You were given an incredibly rare and wonderful gift. The question is what are you going to do with it. What’s your plan?

What is the logic behind suffering or happiness? If there is an intelligence behind it there must be a logical reason. Agreed? Would you also agree that suffering is not evenly distributed, some, like me, get very little some get more than they can take. Is there a logic you'd like to share?

You make the case that suffering can be good and in some cases that is true. However, I see many cases where the good that comes from suffering doesn't seem to balance the pain it inflicts. There seems to be no logic or intelligence at work.

Happiness and mourning are effects not causes. In and of themselves they are not logical. They are literally reactions. Certain experiences may logically lead to people experiencing those feelings. Then again since humans are involved it is possible that it is not necessarily always logical for them to experience those feelings. So this discussion isn’t about suffering it is about the causes of suffering. Specifically why you believe it is illogical for God (if he is good) to allow the cause of suffering to exist.

Let me flip this around. Why should it be logical for bad things to happen to good people if there is a good God? Because from where I sit the only way that can happen is if God controls every single thing which occurs. That to me is the definition of illogical. Can you tell me how God can can make it so that no bad things happen to anyone without controlling everything even you? So right off the bat I have just proven how stupid your argument is.

Which proposition is less illogical. Yours, God controlling everything? Or mine, good comes from bad. Even you will reject your argument if it means in believing God controlling everything. At least with my argument I can believe that we don’t have complete information. That God does. So it isn't possible for us to fully understand the logic and wisdom of existence. Of course that doesn't mean we have to be complete nincompoops about it. It seems to me that life is quite fair. As near as I can tell the argument that life isn’t fair is based upon errors and exceptions. We live in a logical universe where every effect has a cause. As a rule we control our own destiny. As such our behaviors and actions play a large part in the fruit we bear. To argue that this is not the rule is illogical. So to argue that life is not fair can only come after a thorough investigation of both sides. You can’t say that something is bad or unfair without first knowing what is good or fair. So there must be goodness and fairness in the world that it is being compared to. Furthermore, the true comparison should be made for existing versus not existing. Is there anything in the universe that you are aware of that you would rather be? No. You have already won the cosmic lottery. So how can someone who has won the cosmic lottery dare complain that life isn’t fair.

You can’t possibly understand the good that can come from bad. You have never tried. The fact that you haven't even attempted to make a full accounting shows that you are incapable of understanding the information you have been given.

Where did you get your concept of good from? You can’t know a line is crooked unless you have an idea of what is straight. You can’t say that something is bad or unfair without first knowing what is good or fair. So there must be goodness and fairness in the world that it is being compared to. Right? So it seems to me that you believe right and wrong are universal. Why else would you make an argument that it is illogical for God to allow suffering, if you are not arguing that God’s actions are wrong and unfair. You have literally let the cat out of the bag that you believe there is such a thing as universal goodness and fairness.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, one time I was talking with a friend about life and how some got better chances than others, and we were wondering how a just God could allow some of these things to go on.

We also discussed how life wasn't always fair, and we came up with a really good thought to carry with us..........................

Life isn't fair, that is why we have to be.

In your conversation did you discuss the ways in which life was fair?

Actually, we talked about both. And, you can't say that where you are born doesn't have a significant impact on how your life will turn out. And, while some people are born who are smart and strong, they don't always get the best jobs. I can think of several ways in which life isn't fair..............class, social standing, or what income level you are born into.

I know that because of the circumstances of my growing up, I wanted a lot better for myself, and joining the Navy seemed to be the best way to accomplish that. I did 20 years, got my retirement, and am pretty content with what I have, but if I had been born in another family (my Uncle Bill's), I would have more than likely ended up going to college instead of the military.

 

[ding]

You know, one time I was talking with a friend about life and how some got better chances than others, and we were wondering how a just God could allow some of these things to go on.

We also discussed how life wasn't always fair, and we came up with a really good thought to carry with us..........................

Life isn't fair, that is why we have to be.

In your conversation did you discuss the ways in which life was fair?

Actually, we talked about both. And, you can't say that where you are born doesn't have a significant impact on how your life will turn out. And, while some people are born who are smart and strong, they don't always get the best jobs. I can think of several ways in which life isn't fair..............class, social standing, or what income level you are born into.

I know that because of the circumstances of my growing up, I wanted a lot better for myself, and joining the Navy seemed to be the best way to accomplish that. I did 20 years, got my retirement, and am pretty content with what I have, but if I had been born in another family (my Uncle Bill's), I would have more than likely ended up going to college instead of the military.

I never made the argument that the playing field is level. Of course circumstances affect things. Not everyone has the same obstacles. Some paths are easier. That has no bearing on the existence of a creator. My perception of God is that God is consciousness without form and created the material world to experience the material world through us. So whatever perceived injustice or unfairness being suffered by us is also suffered by him.

My question is who in the hell would want to experience life without ups and downs?

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, one time I was talking with a friend about life and how some got better chances than others, and we were wondering how a just God could allow some of these things to go on.

We also discussed how life wasn't always fair, and we came up with a really good thought to carry with us..........................

Life isn't fair, that is why we have to be.

In your conversation did you discuss the ways in which life was fair?

Actually, we talked about both. And, you can't say that where you are born doesn't have a significant impact on how your life will turn out. And, while some people are born who are smart and strong, they don't always get the best jobs. I can think of several ways in which life isn't fair..............class, social standing, or what income level you are born into.

I know that because of the circumstances of my growing up, I wanted a lot better for myself, and joining the Navy seemed to be the best way to accomplish that. I did 20 years, got my retirement, and am pretty content with what I have, but if I had been born in another family (my Uncle Bill's), I would have more than likely ended up going to college instead of the military.

I never made the argument that the playing field is level. Of course circumstances affect things. Not everyone has the same obstacles. Some paths are easier. That has no bearing on the existence of a creator. My perception of God is that God is consciousness without form and created the material world to experience the material world through us. So whatever perceived injustice or unfairness being suffered by us is also suffered by him.

My question is who in the hell would want to experience life without ups and downs?

You know, it's not the ups and downs that make me think that sometimes life isn't fair, it's the really major things that happened that made me think so.

Why? Well, for starters, I didn't think it was "fair" when I was abused by my stepfather from 5 to 7, mentally and physically. I also didn't think it was "fair" when I became an orphan at age 8. Know how hard it is for a kid around Mother's Day that's an orphan? All the teachers are having the kids make things for their parents. I didn't have any, but was still required to participate in the project.

I also didn't think it was "fair' being bounced around from foster family to foster family from the age of 8 until I ran away to live with my Grandparents at 16. I also thought it was decidedly "unfair" when the foster mother of the last family I was at was buying new clothes for her son and I had to wear hand me downs, and she charged the foster organization for his clothes.

No. Life isn't fair. That is why we have to be.

 

[ding]

You know, one time I was talking with a friend about life and how some got better chances than others, and we were wondering how a just God could allow some of these things to go on.

We also discussed how life wasn't always fair, and we came up with a really good thought to carry with us..........................

Life isn't fair, that is why we have to be.

In your conversation did you discuss the ways in which life was fair?

Actually, we talked about both. And, you can't say that where you are born doesn't have a significant impact on how your life will turn out. And, while some people are born who are smart and strong, they don't always get the best jobs. I can think of several ways in which life isn't fair..............class, social standing, or what income level you are born into.

I know that because of the circumstances of my growing up, I wanted a lot better for myself, and joining the Navy seemed to be the best way to accomplish that. I did 20 years, got my retirement, and am pretty content with what I have, but if I had been born in another family (my Uncle Bill's), I would have more than likely ended up going to college instead of the military.

I never made the argument that the playing field is level. Of course circumstances affect things. Not everyone has the same obstacles. Some paths are easier. That has no bearing on the existence of a creator. My perception of God is that God is consciousness without form and created the material world to experience the material world through us. So whatever perceived injustice or unfairness being suffered by us is also suffered by him.

My question is who in the hell would want to experience life without ups and downs?

You know, it's not the ups and downs that make me think that sometimes life isn't fair, it's the really major things that happened that made me think so.

Why? Well, for starters, I didn't think it was "fair" when I was abused by my stepfather from 5 to 7, mentally and physically. I also didn't think it was "fair" when I became an orphan at age 8. Know how hard it is for a kid around Mother's Day that's an orphan? All the teachers are having the kids make things for their parents. I didn't have any, but was still required to participate in the project.

I also didn't think it was "fair' being bounced around from foster family to foster family from the age of 8 until I ran away to live with my Grandparents at 16. I also thought it was decidedly "unfair" when the foster mother of the last family I was at was buying new clothes for her son and I had to wear hand me downs, and she charged the foster organization for his clothes.

No. Life isn't fair. That is why we have to be.

I like the sentiment that life isn't fair so we have to be. I don't like the association that God isn't fair.

 

[ding]

You know, one time I was talking with a friend about life and how some got better chances than others, and we were wondering how a just God could allow some of these things to go on.

We also discussed how life wasn't always fair, and we came up with a really good thought to carry with us..........................

Life isn't fair, that is why we have to be.

In your conversation did you discuss the ways in which life was fair?

Actually, we talked about both. And, you can't say that where you are born doesn't have a significant impact on how your life will turn out. And, while some people are born who are smart and strong, they don't always get the best jobs. I can think of several ways in which life isn't fair..............class, social standing, or what income level you are born into.

I know that because of the circumstances of my growing up, I wanted a lot better for myself, and joining the Navy seemed to be the best way to accomplish that. I did 20 years, got my retirement, and am pretty content with what I have, but if I had been born in another family (my Uncle Bill's), I would have more than likely ended up going to college instead of the military.

I never made the argument that the playing field is level. Of course circumstances affect things. Not everyone has the same obstacles. Some paths are easier. That has no bearing on the existence of a creator. My perception of God is that God is consciousness without form and created the material world to experience the material world through us. So whatever perceived injustice or unfairness being suffered by us is also suffered by him.

My question is who in the hell would want to experience life without ups and downs?

You know, it's not the ups and downs that make me think that sometimes life isn't fair, it's the really major things that happened that made me think so.

Why? Well, for starters, I didn't think it was "fair" when I was abused by my stepfather from 5 to 7, mentally and physically. I also didn't think it was "fair" when I became an orphan at age 8. Know how hard it is for a kid around Mother's Day that's an orphan? All the teachers are having the kids make things for their parents. I didn't have any, but was still required to participate in the project.

I also didn't think it was "fair' being bounced around from foster family to foster family from the age of 8 until I ran away to live with my Grandparents at 16. I also thought it was decidedly "unfair" when the foster mother of the last family I was at was buying new clothes for her son and I had to wear hand me downs, and she charged the foster organization for his clothes.

No. Life isn't fair. That is why we have to be.

I know lot's of people who had difficult starts and succeeded. To a person they all believed that their experiences helped shape them to be better people. How is that not good coming from bad?

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, one time I was talking with a friend about life and how some got better chances than others, and we were wondering how a just God could allow some of these things to go on.

We also discussed how life wasn't always fair, and we came up with a really good thought to carry with us..........................

Life isn't fair, that is why we have to be.

In your conversation did you discuss the ways in which life was fair?

Actually, we talked about both. And, you can't say that where you are born doesn't have a significant impact on how your life will turn out. And, while some people are born who are smart and strong, they don't always get the best jobs. I can think of several ways in which life isn't fair..............class, social standing, or what income level you are born into.

I know that because of the circumstances of my growing up, I wanted a lot better for myself, and joining the Navy seemed to be the best way to accomplish that. I did 20 years, got my retirement, and am pretty content with what I have, but if I had been born in another family (my Uncle Bill's), I would have more than likely ended up going to college instead of the military.

I never made the argument that the playing field is level. Of course circumstances affect things. Not everyone has the same obstacles. Some paths are easier. That has no bearing on the existence of a creator. My perception of God is that God is consciousness without form and created the material world to experience the material world through us. So whatever perceived injustice or unfairness being suffered by us is also suffered by him.

My question is who in the hell would want to experience life without ups and downs?

You know, it's not the ups and downs that make me think that sometimes life isn't fair, it's the really major things that happened that made me think so.

Why? Well, for starters, I didn't think it was "fair" when I was abused by my stepfather from 5 to 7, mentally and physically. I also didn't think it was "fair" when I became an orphan at age 8. Know how hard it is for a kid around Mother's Day that's an orphan? All the teachers are having the kids make things for their parents. I didn't have any, but was still required to participate in the project.

I also didn't think it was "fair' being bounced around from foster family to foster family from the age of 8 until I ran away to live with my Grandparents at 16. I also thought it was decidedly "unfair" when the foster mother of the last family I was at was buying new clothes for her son and I had to wear hand me downs, and she charged the foster organization for his clothes.

No. Life isn't fair. That is why we have to be.

I like the sentiment that life isn't fair so we have to be. I don't like the association that God isn't fair.

See, that's where you got confused. I never said that God wasn't fair. I said that LIFE isn't fair, that is why we have to be. And, if you think about it, if we live life fairly and decently, we are showing that we are created in Gods image, because we are trying to live up to standards He set.

And, there are lots of places in the world where things aren't fair. And, there are lots of people who don't play fair either. If we are to act like we are children of God, and brothers and sisters of Jesus, then whenever we see someone who is catching a bad break, if we have the means to help, then we should.

 

[ding]

In your conversation did you discuss the ways in which life was fair?

Actually, we talked about both. And, you can't say that where you are born doesn't have a significant impact on how your life will turn out. And, while some people are born who are smart and strong, they don't always get the best jobs. I can think of several ways in which life isn't fair..............class, social standing, or what income level you are born into.

I know that because of the circumstances of my growing up, I wanted a lot better for myself, and joining the Navy seemed to be the best way to accomplish that. I did 20 years, got my retirement, and am pretty content with what I have, but if I had been born in another family (my Uncle Bill's), I would have more than likely ended up going to college instead of the military.

I never made the argument that the playing field is level. Of course circumstances affect things. Not everyone has the same obstacles. Some paths are easier. That has no bearing on the existence of a creator. My perception of God is that God is consciousness without form and created the material world to experience the material world through us. So whatever perceived injustice or unfairness being suffered by us is also suffered by him.

My question is who in the hell would want to experience life without ups and downs?

You know, it's not the ups and downs that make me think that sometimes life isn't fair, it's the really major things that happened that made me think so.

Why? Well, for starters, I didn't think it was "fair" when I was abused by my stepfather from 5 to 7, mentally and physically. I also didn't think it was "fair" when I became an orphan at age 8. Know how hard it is for a kid around Mother's Day that's an orphan? All the teachers are having the kids make things for their parents. I didn't have any, but was still required to participate in the project.

I also didn't think it was "fair' being bounced around from foster family to foster family from the age of 8 until I ran away to live with my Grandparents at 16. I also thought it was decidedly "unfair" when the foster mother of the last family I was at was buying new clothes for her son and I had to wear hand me downs, and she charged the foster organization for his clothes.

No. Life isn't fair. That is why we have to be.

I like the sentiment that life isn't fair so we have to be. I don't like the association that God isn't fair.

See, that's where you got confused. I never said that God wasn't fair. I said that LIFE isn't fair, that is why we have to be. And, if you think about it, if we live life fairly and decently, we are showing that we are created in Gods image, because we are trying to live up to standards He set.

And, there are lots of places in the world where things aren't fair. And, there are lots of people who don't play fair either. If we are to act like we are children of God, and brothers and sisters of Jesus, then whenever we see someone who is catching a bad break, if we have the means to help, then we should.

I didn’t say you did. Just like I didn’t say I believed life is unfair.

 

[alang1216]

How is suffering illogical? Is happiness illogical too?

You keep trying to make sense of suffering in a vacuum. Is suffering all you see?

You can’t say that something is bad or unfair without first knowing what is good or fair. So there must be goodness and fairness in the world that it is being compared to. Why have you not done a full accounting?

I’m not the one who is bringing up a plan. You are the one who keeps bringing it up. You were given an incredibly rare and wonderful gift. The question is what are you going to do with it. What’s your plan?

What is the logic behind suffering or happiness? If there is an intelligence behind it there must be a logical reason. Agreed? Would you also agree that suffering is not evenly distributed, some, like me, get very little some get more than they can take. Is there a logic you'd like to share?

You make the case that suffering can be good and in some cases that is true. However, I see many cases where the good that comes from suffering doesn't seem to balance the pain it inflicts. There seems to be no logic or intelligence at work.

Happiness and mourning are effects not causes. In and of themselves they are not logical. They are literally reactions. Certain experiences may logically lead to people experiencing those feelings. Then again since humans are involved it is possible that it is not necessarily always logical for them to experience those feelings. So this discussion isn’t about suffering it is about the causes of suffering. Specifically why you believe it is illogical for God (if he is good) to allow the cause of suffering to exist.

Let me flip this around. Why should it be logical for bad things to happen to good people if there is a good God? Because from where I sit the only way that can happen is if God controls every single thing which occurs. That to me is the definition of illogical. Can you tell me how God can can make it so that no bad things happen to anyone without controlling everything even you? So right off the bat I have just proven how stupid your argument is.

Which proposition is less illogical. Yours, God controlling everything? Or mine, good comes from bad. Even you will reject your argument if it means in believing God controlling everything. At least with my argument I can believe that we don’t have complete information. That God does. So it isn't possible for us to fully understand the logic and wisdom of existence. Of course that doesn't mean we have to be complete nincompoops about it. It seems to me that life is quite fair. As near as I can tell the argument that life isn’t fair is based upon errors and exceptions. We live in a logical universe where every effect has a cause. As a rule we control our own destiny. As such our behaviors and actions play a large part in the fruit we bear. To argue that this is not the rule is illogical. So to argue that life is not fair can only come after a thorough investigation of both sides. You can’t say that something is bad or unfair without first knowing what is good or fair. So there must be goodness and fairness in the world that it is being compared to. Furthermore, the true comparison should be made for existing versus not existing. Is there anything in the universe that you are aware of that you would rather be? No. You have already won the cosmic lottery. So how can someone who has won the cosmic lottery dare complain that life isn’t fair.

You can’t possibly understand the good that can come from bad. You have never tried. The fact that you haven't even attempted to make a full accounting shows that you are incapable of understanding the information you have been given.

Where did you get your concept of good from? You can’t know a line is crooked unless you have an idea of what is straight. You can’t say that something is bad or unfair without first knowing what is good or fair. So there must be goodness and fairness in the world that it is being compared to. Right? So it seems to me that you believe right and wrong are universal. Why else would you make an argument that it is illogical for God to allow suffering, if you are not arguing that God’s actions are wrong and unfair. You have literally let the cat out of the bag that you believe there is such a thing as universal goodness and fairness.

The world I see is exactly what I'd expect to see if God doesn't exist, namely a random universe with no sign of intelligent design.

Why did God create us and the world? I've been told it is to judge us for the next world. If that's the case there should be some logic and evidence of a design. If he has no such plan why create the universe, is he merely a zookeeper?

As for "As a rule we control our own destiny. As such our behaviors and actions play a large part in the fruit we bear. To argue that this is not the rule is illogical.", that is ideological fantasy. Just ask the Kurds, slaves, abused spouses and children, orphans, physically and mentally disabled children, etc. America and the West are not typical of the world throughout history.

 

[emilynghiem]

For some very odd reason you believe what we believe determines God’s existence.

That is exactly what I think. Man created God in his own image and every creation is unique.

Dear alang1216
Man's representations of God are culturally relative
and limited to each person's or group's experiences.

The laws underneath that are self-existent, regardless
of manmade expressions for these, are what God's laws refer to.

Universal laws of nature, life, science, forces of the universe.
Man did not make up those laws.
Just the systems of expressing these for communication purposes.
So we can define RELATIONSHIPS between
individual and collective
neighbor and neighbor
and among institutions for democratic society.
Based on Truth, Justice and Peace
as the driving forces of human conscience that joins humanity as a whole.

 

[kjw47]

Sounds like a 'no true scotsman' fallacy.

In my understanding, Jesus didn't start any religions, he was born a Jew and died a Jew, his followers started Christianity. And there were ALWAYS multiple Christian religions. IMHO

And rose a Jew.

Tell me again what multiple sects of Christianity means? Arguing there can be no God because everyone doesn’t agree on who God is is illogical AF.

The Jewish religion was cut off of being Gods chosen, the precise moment Jesus died( the renting of the banner in two signified that--as well Matthew 23:37-39--They are cut off. Jesus started a new religion-Acts 24:5--just 1 single religion.

That’s a lot of people you just condemned, don’t you think?

I didn't condemn them. The bible does. I just share-FACTS.

No. It’s your interpretation. That means you are doing it. Was the meaning of the wedding feast parable or the workers in the field parable or the prodigal son parable lost on your people?

Instead you are going to take the most obscure book that was about the fall of Rome and ignore every other warning that none of us can know our fate or anyone else’s fate.

You can say words all you want but if it’s just lip service the words have no meaning behind them.

I didn't interpret the bible--Facts are facts--Only those with Jesus knows what the bible actually teaches.

 

[kjw47]

99% are in satans illusion, he poses as every other god--there is but one true living God-YHVH(Jehovah) Few know him-John 15:20-21

So God created a world knowing that 99% of his creation was doomed to suffer on earth and then suffer in hell for all eternity. Either He is a sadist or a really poor creator.

He didn't know. He does not know the future when free will is involved.
So once and for all time it is being proved 100% that mortals need to listen to Gods advice on how to live the path of lasting happiness. He set this before all-Deut 30:19= Life or Death, both are everlasting. Gods people listen to him now.

I thought He was omniscient but I guess you're saying I was wrong. He is just a creator with a 99% failure rate.

Those living in darkness teach God is omniscient. It wouldn't be free will if God knew the outcome already.

 

[kjw47]

99% are in satans illusion, he poses as every other god--there is but one true living God-YHVH(Jehovah) Few know him-John 15:20-21

So God created a world knowing that 99% of his creation was doomed to suffer on earth and then suffer in hell for all eternity. Either He is a sadist or a really poor creator.

Or you lack complete knowledge.

The problem with your position is that if God does exist then you must believe you know better than the creator of existence and believe you could have done it better. An entirely illogical position.

So the only possible explanation is that you lack complete information and he doesn’t.

If God exists I certainly lack complete information but I don't believe anyone has any more information than I do. If my positions seem illogical it may be your ignorance to blame.

God may exist but I don't believe he has shared any information other than the world we live in, so my ignorance is on Him.

But your arguments imply that you do know better than God. Are you changing your answer?

Your position doesn’t seem illogical. It is illogical. You do not have complete information and yet you have judged everything as a 99% failure. That’s illogical and incorrect.

Quite a lot can be learned about God from studying the world we live in. So if you are ignorant about God, that’s on you.

You can learn a lot about god by checking out all the people with cancer, and all the deformed or retarded babies.

Mortals chose this system of things. Gods kingdom will end all suffering.

 

[kjw47]

99% are in satans illusion, he poses as every other god--there is but one true living God-YHVH(Jehovah) Few know him-John 15:20-21

So God created a world knowing that 99% of his creation was doomed to suffer on earth and then suffer in hell for all eternity. Either He is a sadist or a really poor creator.

So let’s explore your position that God is a sadist. Why would a sadist allow us to have any happiness at all?

contrast?

Mortals chose this system==Gods kingdom will end this system. There is no literal eternal suffering( Deut 30:19)--Those living in darkness teach that lie against God.

 

[kjw47]

In my understanding, Jesus didn't start any religions, he was born a Jew and died a Jew, his followers started Christianity. And there were ALWAYS multiple Christian religions. IMHO

Acts 24:5-- a single religion Jesus started--The rest claiming to be Christian are in reality a part of this-2Thess 2:3--the great apostasy. They became a house divided-they will not stand-Mark 3:24-26

Not buying it.

Paul was roaming the Roman world trying to keep his churches in line because others were traveling with different theologies. The main conflict being, did one have convert to Judaism before becoming a Christian. Some said yes and that was the Jerusalem faction. Others, like Paul, believed you didn't and circumcision was unnecessary. Paul's faction won by default when the Romans burned Jerusalem. If Paul had lost, Christianity today would be a tiny sect in a minor religion. Paul opened up the possibility of mass conversions of gentiles.

Pagan Rome was as much responsible for Christianity as anyone or anything.

They don't teach what Jesus actually taught. In fact they teach a non existent false God.
Yes satans#1 job attack Jesus seed relentless. False teachings started getting in in Peters letters. Titus had to be left behind to correct error teachings that got in. The important thing--they are corrected. To this day are being corrected. In front of the whole world.

How do you know this while 99% of (Christian?) people do not?

Jesus is not with religions that teac



Because those 99% are not in reality Christian.

In my understanding, Jesus didn't start any religions, he was born a Jew and died a Jew, his followers started Christianity. And there were ALWAYS multiple Christian religions. IMHO

Acts 24:5-- a single religion Jesus started--The rest claiming to be Christian are in reality a part of this-2Thess 2:3--the great apostasy. They became a house divided-they will not stand-Mark 3:24-26

Not buying it.

Paul was roaming the Roman world trying to keep his churches in line because others were traveling with different theologies. The main conflict being, did one have convert to Judaism before becoming a Christian. Some said yes and that was the Jerusalem faction. Others, like Paul, believed you didn't and circumcision was unnecessary. Paul's faction won by default when the Romans burned Jerusalem. If Paul had lost, Christianity today would be a tiny sect in a minor religion. Paul opened up the possibility of mass conversions of gentiles.

Pagan Rome was as much responsible for Christianity as anyone or anything.

They don't teach what Jesus actually taught. In fact they teach a non existent false God.
Yes satans#1 job attack Jesus seed relentless. False teachings started getting in in Peters letters. Titus had to be left behind to correct error teachings that got in. The important thing--they are corrected. To this day are being corrected. In front of the whole world.

How do you know this while 99% of (Christian?) people do not?

Jesus is not with any religion teaching a false god like the trinity god, it does not exist. Thus they are not Christian like they are told.

 

[Taz]

So God created a world knowing that 99% of his creation was doomed to suffer on earth and then suffer in hell for all eternity. Either He is a sadist or a really poor creator.

Or you lack complete knowledge.

The problem with your position is that if God does exist then you must believe you know better than the creator of existence and believe you could have done it better. An entirely illogical position.

So the only possible explanation is that you lack complete information and he doesn’t.

If God exists I certainly lack complete information but I don't believe anyone has any more information than I do. If my positions seem illogical it may be your ignorance to blame.

God may exist but I don't believe he has shared any information other than the world we live in, so my ignorance is on Him.

But your arguments imply that you do know better than God. Are you changing your answer?

Your position doesn’t seem illogical. It is illogical. You do not have complete information and yet you have judged everything as a 99% failure. That’s illogical and incorrect.

Quite a lot can be learned about God from studying the world we live in. So if you are ignorant about God, that’s on you.

You can learn a lot about god by checking out all the people with cancer, and all the deformed or retarded babies.

Mortals chose this system of things. Gods kingdom will end all suffering.

We didn't choose this. Some guy ate an apple. Why is that my problem?

 

[kjw47]

Or you lack complete knowledge.

The problem with your position is that if God does exist then you must believe you know better than the creator of existence and believe you could have done it better. An entirely illogical position.

So the only possible explanation is that you lack complete information and he doesn’t.

If God exists I certainly lack complete information but I don't believe anyone has any more information than I do. If my positions seem illogical it may be your ignorance to blame.

God may exist but I don't believe he has shared any information other than the world we live in, so my ignorance is on Him.

But your arguments imply that you do know better than God. Are you changing your answer?

Your position doesn’t seem illogical. It is illogical. You do not have complete information and yet you have judged everything as a 99% failure. That’s illogical and incorrect.

Quite a lot can be learned about God from studying the world we live in. So if you are ignorant about God, that’s on you.

You can learn a lot about god by checking out all the people with cancer, and all the deformed or retarded babies.

Mortals chose this system of things. Gods kingdom will end all suffering.

We didn't choose this. Some guy ate an apple. Why is that my problem?

You are alive--God set this before all because of the rebellion in Eden- Deut 30:19-- If God didn't let the issues be resolved once and for all time, it would have just kept occurring over and over. This way it occurs once.