The tragedy of the Boeing 737 Max.

SmokeALib

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Boeing rushed this plane out the door to keep competitive with Airbus. But two crashes with over 300 deaths lead to investigations that showed neglect with both Boeing and the FAA.
The 737 (built and designed in the 70's) was built low to the ground to accommodate smaller airfields. So instead of designing a new airplane, Boeing decided to revamp the 737 with larger, more fuel efficient engines. These engines wouldn't fit, so they moved them forward and higher up on the wings. This changed the load and aerodynamics of the plane. The nose would tend to tip up, resulting in possible stalls.
So instead of a redesign, they just installed software to keep the nose down.
Using software to fix a fundamentally flawed design proved tragic.
It's a pretty interesting story if you choose to read the numerous articles on how and why this happened.
 
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Manonthestreet

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The Tanker they built us is a piece of crap too....seems American industry cant do much right these days despite having built these things for decades
 

bluzman61

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Boeing rushed this plane out the door to keep competitive with Airbus. But two crashes with over 300 deaths lead to investigations that showed neglect with both Boeing and the FAA.
The 737 (built and designed in the 70's) was built low to the ground to accommodate smaller airfields. So instead of designing a new airplane, Boeing decided to revamp the 737 with larger, more fuel efficient engines. These engines wouldn't fit, so they moved them forward and higher up on the wings. This changed the load and aerodynamics of the plane. The nose would tend to tip up, resulting in possible stalls.
So instead of a redesign, they just installed software to keep the nose down.
Using software to fix a fundamentally flawed design proved tragic.
It's a pretty interesting story if you choose to read the numerous articles on how and why this happened.
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
 

Tom Paine 1949

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While Boeing was rushing a defective plane into production, its managers were being paid in stock options, and in the last few years they used $45 billion in profit (including from military sales) to buy back its own already expensive stock. Most people try to buy low and sell high, but these executives used the company profits to buy high so they could sell their own shares even higher. Such stock manipulation used to be illegal (before 1984) and is a violation of their fiduciary responsibilities, not to mention criminally negligent to their customers. Rather than be bailed out, Boeing should go bankrupt, its shareholders wiped out, its management replaced and criminally investigated.
 
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SmokeALib

SmokeALib

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While Boeing was rushing a defective plane into production, its managers were being paid in stock options, and in the last few years they used $45 billion in profit (including from military sales) to buy back its own already expensive stock. Most people try to buy low and sell high, but these executives used the company profits to buy high so they could sell their own shares even higher. Such stock manipulation used to be illegal (before 1984) and is a violation of their fiduciary responsibilities, not to mention criminally negligent to their customers. Rather than be bailed out, Boeing should go bankrupt, its shareholders wiped out, its management replaced and criminally investigated.
I have to agree that Boeing was eyeing dollar signs before safety. Their only oversight was the FAA, who allowed this to happen.
 

Dekster

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While Boeing was rushing a defective plane into production, its managers were being paid in stock options, and in the last few years they used $45 billion in profit (including from military sales) to buy back its own already expensive stock. Most people try to buy low and sell high, but these executives used the company profits to buy high so they could sell their own shares even higher. Such stock manipulation used to be illegal (before 1984) and is a violation of their fiduciary responsibilities, not to mention criminally negligent to their customers. Rather than be bailed out, Boeing should go bankrupt, its shareholders wiped out, its management replaced and criminally investigated.
I have to agree that Boeing was eyeing dollar signs before safety. Their only oversight was the FAA, who allowed this to happen.
I guess those donations to Obama paid off.
 
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SmokeALib

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These airplanes remain grounded, but Boeing says they will be back in the air this year. This should never happen.
 

HenryBHough

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Not worry.

Give this virus crap 6 months and there won't be an aircraft industry because there'll be no buyers.

The few "national flag" airlines that might exist will have enough perfectly good airplanes sitting around unused that there'll be no reason to build any for at least 50 years. And then? Government Aircraft Directorate will do the job.
 

Tom Paine 1949

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"I guess those donations to Obama paid off."

This is a typical example of utterly ignorant partisan idiocy.

Boeing always gives generously to candidates of both parties, especially candidates favoring its interests on aviation and corporate tax cuts, or on military-related committees. Since 1986 through 2020 it has given more to Republicans than Democrats in every election but 2008 & 2010, when it gave somewhat more to the incumbent Democrats.

Senate Republican Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is married to Ellen Chao, the head of the Transportation Department under Trump. She has direct oversight responsibility for Boeing and has long-time connections to it. She served in leading positions in the Transportation Department under Reagan and Bush, including Vice-Secretary. The "revolving door" between Boeing (and all other big defense related corporations) and the departments of Defense and Transportation is notorious -- and has continued under every administration regardless of party.
 
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theHawk

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"I guess those donations to Obama paid off."

This is a typical example of utterly ignorant partisan idiocy.

Boeing always gives generously to candidates of both parties, especially candidates favoring its interests on aviation and corporate tax cuts, or on military-related committees. Since 1986 through 2020 it has given more to Republicans than Democrats in every election but 2008 & 2010, when it gave somewhat more to the incumbent Democrats.

Senate Republican Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is married to Ellen Chao, the head of the Transportation Department under Trump. She has direct oversight responsibility for Boeing and has long-time connections to it. She served in leading positions in the Transportation Department under Reagan and Bush, including Vice-Secretary. The "revolving door" between Boeing (and all other big defense related corporations) and the departments of Defense and Transportation is notorious -- and has continued under every administration regardless of party.
Yes, but in this case it was under the Hussein that this project was green lit and allowed to happen. You can’t tap dance your way out of that.
 

Tom Paine 1949

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Yes, but in this case it was under the Hussein that this project was green lit and allowed to happen. You can’t tap dance your way out of that.
You partisan hacks can't help yourselves, can you?

I'm not "dancing" my way out of anything, Bud...

I wrote about the corporate culture and corruption of Boeing, without any mention of parties or individuals, and I said it should not be bailed out but go bankrupt under corporate bankruptcy law that would replace management. I also opposed the whole corrupt policy of their destroying real company value by buying back shares instead of strengthening the corporation and the safety of its own products. That was the content of my comment. But you didn’t respond to any of that, did you?

It was Dekster who made it out as if a single man, Obama, or his administration, was somehow personally responsible. I answered his nonsense by speaking about corporate and government “revolving doors,” and detailing where Boeing campaign contributions actually did go historically. But any mention of Republicans was too much for you, eh? So here you are, another sycophant dancing into the conversation railing against the Muslim sounding "Hussein." About President Obama, as if he personally had influence on how giant corporations like Boeing do business. As if I really give a damn about him at all.

You are the guys who are always railing against government regulation anyway, no? Anyone following this case knows that it was Boeing itself that hid documents from the FAA. And most FAA personnel were not “newbies.” If any Obama-appointed FAA people had anything to do with this, of course they should be prosecuted!

You fools, all of you, Democrats and Republicans, never want to talk about anything besides your precious leaders and your partisan obsessions. Disgusting.
 
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Tom Paine 1949

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P.S. You want to see a real left-wing criticism of how Obama capitulated to the Republican deregulation obsession and served as a corporate salesman for this mighty and mightily corrupt pillar of American profit-making corporations, just read here and weep — but don’t tell me Republicans would have done anything different!

Boeing, Obama, a Gold Watch, and 346 Dead
 

there4eyeM

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Capitalism in its naked form. It doesn't have to be this way; capitalism itself is neutral. People take it too far.
 
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SmokeALib

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Please note I did not post this in the political forum. Greed exists everywhere - republicans, democrats, corporations, and government.
It was widely known that the FAA was in cahoots with Boeing. The FAA actually allowed Boeing to inspect their own aircraft. The FAA allowed the software to be installed on these planes without inclusion into pilots manuals or simulator training. This saved dollars for everybody.
 

there4eyeM

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Please note I did not post this in the political forum. Greed exists everywhere - republicans, democrats, corporations, and government.
It was widely known that the FAA was in cahoots with Boeing. The FAA actually allowed Boeing to inspect their own aircraft. The FAA allowed the software to be installed on these planes without inclusion into pilots manuals or simulator training. This saved dollars for everybody.
Yes, this saved dollars on every body.
Greed, indeed, exists in all human spheres. In capitalist endeavors, in religious institutions, in politics, and on and on. The human "soul" needs rehabilitation. That done, the rest would follow.
It is not attacking capitalism or America to point out facts. Facts should serve to educate and ameliorate.
 

Tom Paine 1949

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Nice informative article, again. I would only add that the disgraced and responsible CEO (since 2015) of Boeing was removed and "investigated" by Congress, but still gets to walk away with a "golden parachute" worth at least $62 million. That was in addition to all the compensation he received throughout a long career in Boeing's management team -- most of it resulting from driving up the value of his stock options as Boeing profits were used to buy back shares. In this way he earned some 30 million a year in 2018 and 2019 alone.

Of course similar stock options went to all of top management, and is a feature of corporate life that makes too many executives concentrate only on driving up share values to unsustainable levels while ignoring the real health and long term viability of their companies.

In this way, many great and once well-run corporations in the U.S. have been ruined, or weakened so that they lack capital reserves and depend on bailouts when financial crisis inevitably strikes. All this at Boeing of course occurred before and independent of Covid-19.
 
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