Comparing the Best of the Allied Fighters with the Best of the Luftwaffe

[Vrenn]

If I had been adding night fighters to the list, the Mossie would have been there as would the He-219 and P-61

You would also have to add the P-38M Night Fighter as well. Take a good fighter with 2 engines, add radar and poof, you have a night fighter.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Its was a fighter ...day or night... long range reconnaissance and bombing..
Multi roll wooden marauder
It was genius

The Mossie wasn’t a fighter, any contemporary single engined fighter would have eaten it for lunch. That’s why when Mosquito fighter bombers made attacks, they exited the area at low level at full throttle onto avoid fighters. Mossies were fast and well armed, but they weren’t maneuverable; just like the Beaufighters, Me-110s, Me-410s and the Kawanishi Ki-45 Nicks. The only twin engine fighter capable of holding its own against any single engined fighter was the P-38 J or L. With their counter rotating props, maneuvering flaps and boosted ailerons, they could even dogfight with Zeros and Oscars with a good chance of victory. Tommy McGuire was so confident of the superior maneuverability of the P-38J that he was dogfighting an Oscar at low level WITH THE DROP TANKS STILL ON HIS PLANE when he stalled out and was killed. Admittedly he was an outstanding pilot but that shows the level of confidence pilots had of the late model Lightnings. Nothing else would have attempted a low speed dogfight with an Oscar.

 

[AZrailwhale]

You would also have to add the P-38M Night Fighter as well. Take a good fighter with 2 engines, add radar and poof, you have a night fighter.

There were only 75 P-38Ms built.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

The Mossie wasn’t a fighter, any contemporary single engined fighter would have eaten it for lunch. That’s why when Mosquito fighter bombers made attacks, they exited the area at low level at full throttle onto avoid fighters. Mossies were fast and well armed, but they weren’t maneuverable; just like the Beaufighters, Me-110s, Me-410s and the Kawanishi Ki-45 Nicks. The only twin engine fighter capable of holding its own against any single engined fighter was the P-38 J or L. With their counter rotating props, maneuvering flaps and boosted ailerons, they could even dogfight with Zeros and Oscars with a good chance of victory. Tommy McGuire was so confident of the superior maneuverability of the P-38J that he was dogfighting an Oscar at low level WITH THE DROP TANKS STILL ON HIS PLANE when he stalled out and was killed. Admittedly he was an outstanding pilot but that shows the level of confidence pilots had of the late model Lightnings. Nothing else would have attempted a low speed dogfight with an Oscar.

That was the original intent
Out run everything to deliver the payload

But not true was used as a night fighter also they put radar in it and what 8 20 mm

 

[AZrailwhale]

That was the original intent
Out run everything to deliver the payload

But not true was used as a night fighter also they put radar in it and what 8 20 mm

Nope, just four 20mm cannon with the breeches in the front half of the bomb bay. Those displaced half the bomb load allowing it to only carry either two 250 or 500 pound bombs. There were no operational fighter Mosquitos. They were all either fighter bombers or night fighters,

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Nope, just four 20mm cannon with the breeches in the front half of the bomb bay. Those displaced half the bomb load allowing it to only carry either two 250 or 500 pound bombs. There were no operational fighter Mosquitos. They were all either fighter bombers or night fighters,

It was 4 20 mm and 4 .303 brownings

 

[AZrailwhale]

It was 4 20 mm and 4 .303 brownings

Correct, I was responding to the eight 20mm comment. I should have mentioned the four .303s

 

[AZrailwhale]

It was 4 20 mm and 4 .303 brownings

I re-read the post I was replying to and it was about the Mosquito night fighter which only had the 20mm, the AI radar replaced the four .303s

 

[Vrenn]

There were only 75 P-38Ms built.

Plus, with the added weight and drag, had it encountered any real fighters in daytime, it was toast. But at night, you can't see it or hear it until it's too late.

 

[Vrenn]

One factor to remember is gasoline quality.
Allies, as in USA and UK, had use of 100 octane which helped top out the max engine performance.
Germany stayed with 87 octane because it could nearly double gasoline production with that compared to going for 100 octane.

BTW, don't recall seeing the Spitfire here yet, or any Russian fighters.

At one point, the US had to use the Brit 87 Octane. Hence the severe knocking and the problem at high altitude when the octane additive would seperate. The Bombers like the higher octane but would operate just fine. But the low octane still cause a knock and loss of power on the P-47. And this octaine booster was almost suicide in a P-38. It didn't affect the normal Allisons because they would be used at low altitude and not require the octane booster. Sometime in the middle of 1943, the US started providing it's own fuel at 100/140 rating. It didn't require the octane booster. All of a sudden, the P-47 and the P-38J became real world beaters.

 

[Vrenn]

The Mossie wasn’t a fighter, any contemporary single engined fighter would have eaten it for lunch. That’s why when Mosquito fighter bombers made attacks, they exited the area at low level at full throttle onto avoid fighters. Mossies were fast and well armed, but they weren’t maneuverable; just like the Beaufighters, Me-110s, Me-410s and the Kawanishi Ki-45 Nicks. The only twin engine fighter capable of holding its own against any single engined fighter was the P-38 J or L. With their counter rotating props, maneuvering flaps and boosted ailerons, they could even dogfight with Zeros and Oscars with a good chance of victory. Tommy McGuire was so confident of the superior maneuverability of the P-38J that he was dogfighting an Oscar at low level WITH THE DROP TANKS STILL ON HIS PLANE when he stalled out and was killed. Admittedly he was an outstanding pilot but that shows the level of confidence pilots had of the late model Lightnings. Nothing else would have attempted a low speed dogfight with an Oscar.

The problem here is the P-38M was much heavier and it had a huge drag from the radar dome. While it had the makings of a great fighter, it lost it when converted to the Night Fighter.

 

[eagle1462010]

The ME 109 was hands down the Terror of the skies WWII

 

[AZrailwhale]

The ME 109 was hands down the Terror of the skies WWII

Bullcrap. The Me-109 was a barely adequate fighter. It was certainly no better than the Spitfire and far inferior to the Mustang. The 109 was kept in production long after it was obsolete because Germany had to produce something and the Fw-190 was limited, not to mention Willy Messerschmidt was well connected politically. That was the only reason the Me-109 was kept in production rather than the superior He-100. Both could not be produced since they used the same engine which was in short supply.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Do you really consider the world's first mass produced jet fighter to see combat a "Cliff note..." on the subject?

The authors of the following source seem to have a different opinion.

".....the Messerschmitt Me 262 was the best fighter plane of World War II."

"Messerschmitt Me 262"​

Messerschmitt Me 262

The great legacy of the Messerschmitt Me 262 is that it inspired other air forces to adopt the jet fighter as standard, and moved engineers to utilize its layout for fighters and airliners. Learn more about this top World War II fighter plane.

science.howstuffworks.com

Key Takeaways​

• EXCERPT "Capable of flying 120 miles per hour faster than the P-51 Mustang, the Messerschmitt Me 262 was the best fighter plane of World War II.
• Its late introduction to combat was due to delays in jet engine production, not Hitler's decision-making; had its introduction come earlier, it could have significantly impacted the outcome of the war.
• The Me 262's design, especially its dramatic swept wings, inspired future jet fighters and airliners, marking its legacy as a pioneering aircraft in aviation history." CONTINUED

Both the Gloster Meteor and Me-262 entered squadron service in July 1944. The Meteors were kept in the UK to intercept V-1s and lacked the endurance to be escorts anyway. Both of the jets had similar ranges, the 262 only had an endurance of between sixty and ninety minutes and about nine seconds of firepower (80 rounds for the outer guns, 90 for the inner ones) That's one or two passes at the bomber formation and a max of one or two kills. The 262 was too fast to change targets in one pass per Eric Brown.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The ME-262 if mass produced and used properly may have delayed the war's end by two years.

The 262 was a total failure. It needed two jet engines that had to be replaced every TWENTY flying hours. No matter how many Germany built, they couldn't have affected the balance to power in the air. Germany lacked the alloys to make successful jet engines.