The Top Three Reasons Why Liberals Hate Conservatives

I hope I am posting this in the right forum.

This guy nails it. The "kill shot" from the link:

“Conservatives believe what they see; liberals see what they believe.”


Pretty well covers the difference between the two groups.

The Top 3 Reasons Why Liberals Hate Conservatives Western Free Press

Are you a conservative, a libertarian, or a Republican? Have you ever been verbally assaulted by someone on the political left with a ferocity you didn’t quite understand? Have you seen it happen to friends and colleagues, or watched in horror as the media establishment does it to a public figure?

Of course you have. At some point or other, nearly everyone on the political right has witnessed or been the victim of an attack designed not to elucidate facts, but rather to paint him or her as a villain.

My attention was recently drawn to a typical such calumny from a Facebook exchange:

Republicans hate anything that isn’t white, wealthy, and christian at least in appearance. They hate the poor, women, and minorities. They hate science and don’t believe that the global warming we clearly are experiencing is man made. They hate any government programs that help the poor and minorities, and the particularly despise immigrants, particularly the illegal kind. They love programs that line the pockets of oil companies, mining companies, and are willing to export jobs with wild abandon.

They hate public education, and they despise public schools and the public school teachers and public university professors. And since the do not respect the market place of ideas, they hate tenure (that gives teachers academic freedom) because it prevents them from firing teachers who are Democrats and who might infect some student with their liberal ideas. They want insurance companies to make a maximum of profit, and are perfectly willing for the health insurance companies to kill people by refusing service to anyone that might cost them a buck more than the median expense. They don’t care about clean food because it might cost the food corporation a little money, and they don’t care about clean water because cleaning up the waste will cost their precious corporate persons a little money.

This is not a recitation of facts; it is a series of smears. It is the construction of a giant cartoonish super-villain, made of straw and woven together with calumny. The giant straw villain is then publicly burned, in a narcissistic orgy of self-adulation. Of course, the torches of the “best” people burn the brightest.

Another way of looking at it is this: It is the modern-day version of a witch trial. The charges are utterly farcical and cartoonish. “I saw her dancing with demons in the pale moonlight.” “She looked at me and I sneezed, and the next day, I had a terrible cold.” “She turned me into a newt.” But they are stated with great conviction and repeated incessantly, and they establish the unassailable collective will of which the accused has run afoul. The witch is made into the auslander, and the good people of the community show how “good” they are by shouting their accusations the loudest.

Either way, whether the wicker man or the witch, the effigy goes up in flames and the community is purged—for the moment—of its evil. Moral annulment now achieved, the villagers walk away feeling good about themselves. Feeling superior.

Facts are also unimportant in this perverse passion play. Like the slavering, semi-psychotic Facebook rant above, most such assaults aren’t a series of accusations backed up by facts, they are a series of character assassinations, most of which are contradicted by the facts.

The most salient example today is the charge that people of the right (conservatives, Republicans, libertarians, tea partiers) oppose Obama out of pure racism—simply because he is black. Though this charge is easily refuted—by common sense, widespread evidence, and actual studies—it is repeated incessantly by the media, the left’s foot-soldiers . . . even the president himself.

When actual studies are done (as opposed to just restating what the leftist imagines to be so as if it were actual fact), we learn that real racism is distributed fairly evenly among the population without regard to political affiliation. In 2008, a survey was done that showed similar numbers of Republicans (5.7) and Democrats (6.8) would not vote for a black presidential candidate. Such a question gives us one of the clearest possible tests of raw racism. A loaded question like, “Do you feel blacks receive too much welfare?” might confuse attitudes about race with attitudes about government welfare programs. But this gives us apples to apples: All things being equal, would you refuse to vote for someone solely because of race?

In the 2008 survey, Democrats were slightly (1.1%) more likely to show racist thinking than Republicans, though this is well within the margin of error. A similar study on senatorial candidates was far more damning to Democrats. Bottom line: there is little evidence that Republicans oppose Obama or any candidate on the basis of race to any greater degree than Democrats.

But this should be obvious based on other facts and indicators as well. Take Mia Love. If you are on the political left, you may not have heard of her, but she is a rising star on the right. She quotes Bastiat, she believes in core principles such as subsidiarity—she is dynamic, successful, and hits all the right notes. She is a black woman, and I have not met or heard of a single conservative, Republican, or tea partier who wouldn’t be delighted to support her. (Deep down, many of the left know this, which is why they have been so vicious to her.) I have worked alongside or come in contact with hundreds of activists and partisans on the political right over the last 15 years, and I cannot think of a single one who would not exult at a Mia Love victory. If she were elected president, I myself would do the happy dance on top of the tallest mountain in my area every November!

The reason is obvious: we agree ideologically. Race is unimportant. Barack Obama is, it can be fairly argued, further to the political left than any previous president. And people on the right oppose him so virulently for that very reason—not because of his race, but because of the huge ideological gulf that lies between. Imagine that.

The other painfully incessant canard is the notion that people on the right “hate the poor.” In fact, the evidence shows the opposite. Conservatives are more charitable than liberals by fairly significant margins, even when you adjust for a variety of factors. Rich, middle-class, and poor conservatives are all more charitable than their liberal counterparts. It’s not that conservatives are wealthier overall, either—liberal households are 6% wealthier on average. (I bet you never heard that little fact on MSNBC.) It is also not that conservatives are more religious: new data indicate that secular conservatives give more than secular liberals. These conservatives are voluntarily helping the poor with their own money, in greater numbers than their liberal counterparts in every cohort. Conservatism is a greater predictor of charity.

Leftists (they hardly deserve the term “liberal”), by contrast, are more “charitable” with other people’s money. Leftist A votes for Politician B to take money (by force) from Taxpayer C to give it to Recipient D. A and D give more support and power to B, who continues to take more and more from C, in a perverse and ever-increasing form of economic bondage. Then, A, B, and D get together and say that C hates the poor. Lather, rinse, repeat.

But we are getting dragged into the weeds here. We could go on and on refuting fact after fact, but the facts are unimportant. The leftist is creating a narrative. As a marketing guru will tell you, Facts tell, but stories sell. It’s a lesson the leftist has learned well.

Even more disturbing, in recent years, this method of “argumentation” has increasingly become the first tool pulled out of the toolbox. No longer does the leftist feel as compelled to make real arguments. All he needs to do now is shout “Racist!” or “War on Women!” and his job is done. He walks away feeling smugly satisfied of his own politically correct superiority, and the untrained observer is left addled at best, and possibly even swayed by the narrative.

So why they are so vicious? Why do people who self-describe as “compassionate” direct such vitriolic hate and assaults at their ideological opponents? How they can justify painting you as such a monster?

Simple: To them, you are a monster. You must be.


Rest at link.

Mark

Exactly, and not a single member of this forum can put up a cogent argument to the contrary.

Please try.....
 
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Graduate high school, stay out of trouble with the law and your job opportunities are endless. If there are no jobs in your neighborhood, it's likely that the businesses all moved away because of high crime, high taxes and a meager qualified labor pool. Make your neighborhoods attractive to business and businesses will come, but if I want to open a factory, I'm going to put it where I can get employees to come to work without fear of being mugged, where I won't be broken into every week and where I won't get burnt out when cops have to shoot a "gentle giant".

It's not my responsibility to fix your families. It's not my job to educate you. I don't force you to sell drugs or steal cars. Grow the fuck up and take responsibility for your actions and get the hell out of my wallet.

Yeah, Ernie, you aren't at all racist.

Hey, funny thing. The mostly white neighborhood I grew up with meets all your criteria, and guess what, most of the manufacturing jobs vanished there, too.

The 1%ers aren't destroying and offshoring jobs because the police can't shoot "Gentle Giants" in cold blood inthe middle of the street when they have their hands up.

They're doing it because they are insanely greedy.
 
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And the second quoted article explains why blacks as a rule. go no further than Congressman.

You really expect the GOP to nominate blacks just because they're black?

Hey guy! When 95% of blacks are Democrats, we don't have quite the bench you have.

BUT I'm happy to say that none of our few blacks think Guam is in danger of capsizing.

No, yours think that it's okay to punch out your girlfriend in an elevator if they get mouthy.

BenCarson.jpg
 
Except an unborn human fetus (you forgot that part) is, by definition, not a baby, not a person, not an individual. So, abortion, by definition, is not murder. It is you, Sir, who are trying to make up the meanings of words to add emotional impact to your argument.
Abortion is not always murder for no reason other than it is not always illegal.
Sometimes it is, and then it is.
Thus, the correctness of the term 'baby' or 'fetus' is irrelevant.
 
The OP seems to cover almost all the reasons Republicans are hated

But rather than trying to mitigate the damage, they just deny that it is true. More Republicans living in a fantasy bubble where everyone loves them
You might have a point if these were true,but they are not,the only truth hear is the fact that the left will say anything to personally smear what they see as a threat,and anyone different is a threat.They do NOT practice what they preach.

Easy....convince people otherwise

Republicans are not a "white mans party" show why 90% white is not a white mans party. Explain why only six blacks have been elected to higher office by Republicans in the last 100 years
MONTGOMERY, Alabama --- The Alabama Republican Party says 11 black candidates are running in the GOP primary on June 3, and officials say that shows the party is making strides with African Americans.

State Republican Party Chairman Bill Armistead, who hired a full-time minority outreach director last year, said he thinks the GOP can build on the number.

“It’s by far the largest we’ve ever had,” Armistead said. “Is it where we want to be? No. We will have more in the future.”

Republicans hold every statewide office in Alabama and a majority in the Legislature, but none of those seats are held by black Republicans.

Joe Reed, longtime leader of the Alabama Democratic Conference, said blacks won’t move to the Republican Party on any significant scale because of GOP opposition to programs such as Obamacare, raising the minimum wage, extending long-term unemployment benefits and other “bread and butter” issues that Reed said help working families.
There are five black Republican candidates for the state House of Representatives, one for the Public Service Commission, two for sheriff, two for seats on county commissions and one for a county school board seat, according to Troy Towns, minority outreach director for the state GOP. Another black Republican is running in a special election to fill a vacant House seat in Birmingham to complete a current term..

Towns said there was only one black Republican in the 2010 primary and one in 2012. He thinks this year’s number is not a fluke, but a sign of things to come.
Eleven blacks on the ballot as Republicans in Alabama s June primary AL.com


But some experts say the small number of black Republicans in office could also emerge as major candidates. Unlike black Democrats, black Republicans tend to get elected in majority-white areas, meaning they often have a broader coalition of voters who have already supported them when they seek a higher office.
Obama aside blacks struggle to win major offices theGrio

I ask about blacks elected to higher office and you come back with state legislature

Higher office: Congressman, Senator, Governor, President

Republicans have elected SIX in the last 100 years and five have been Congressmen
And the second quoted article explains why blacks as a rule. go no further than Congressman.

You really expect the GOP to nominate blacks just because they're black?

Hey guy! When 95% of blacks are Democrats, we don't have quite the bench you have.

BUT I'm happy to say that none of our few blacks think Guam is in danger of capsizing.
I understand now......Republicans don't nominate blacks because they are black, they nominate the best qualified person
They just have only found six blacks who were qualified in the last one hundred years
 
Sure they did. The approval was implicit. That's why as soon as homosexuals started marrying homosexuals

Rock Hudson was not denied the right to get married due to his status as a homosexual. There was no right for a heterosexual man to "marry" a man either.

Whatever is taking place between two men in such a ceremony is not marriage. Homosexuals weren't fighting for the right to get married, they've always had that right, what they were fighting for was to corrupt the meaning of marriage.

and rushed through changes to the marriage laws to include the phrase "between one man and one woman", because you couldn't stand that men, and women were marrying people that you didn't approve of.

No one needs to define what everyone understands. When a law defines a nation's border as running on the East side of a river which separates two countries, there is no need to define what constitutes a river. Later some liberals get it in their head that a river means a treeline and now normal people shake their head and go back to the legislation and define what constitutes a river.
That's a false analogy. Everyone did understand what marriage meant - it meant the legal union between two people. it just never occurred to you that "the gheys" would figure out that they are people two. So, when they did you had to what "people" were acceptable for getting married. You changed the meaning of the word marriage to justify your attempts to tell gay people who they can, and cannot marry. You can spin that any way you like to make yourself feel better about yourself, but that's how that went.


No, there really isn't. And, even if there were, your premise is still wrong. Most men, and women too, do not "accept the risk" of unwanted parenthood just because they have sex (yes, that one was a direct quote of yours). Not only do they not accept that risk, most people don't even consider it.

Are you a woman by chance? I ask because every man KNOWS that if he gets a woman pregnant and he doesn't want to be a father but she wants to have the baby, that he has NO CHOICE but to be a father. Every man knows that if he seeks a pity party about his plight EVERYONE will tell him that he should have thought about this before he had sex, that that was the time to decide. Once he had sex, he was committed to living with the outcome that resulted.

The moment of decision happens when a man consents to sex.

[So, please do not insult our intelligence by suggesting that "Men and women face the same risk at the time they decide to have sex." Because they don't. Not even close.

I see that you have trouble with reading comprehension. The risk being referred to is the risk of conception. It's a binary choice - pregnant or not. The risk you're referring to is associated with pregnancy, not conception. The man doesn't face any risk from pregnancy because he can't get pregnant. With the risk of conception, the man is either a father at the moment of conception or he's not a father because no conception took place, and same with the woman, she is either a mother at the moment of conception or not a mother because no conception took place. Both men and women face the same risk when they decide to have sex.

To help you understand, let's look at this dynamic expressed in a different form. You and I are gambling. We gamble on the outcome of a flipped coin. We both face the same risk of losing a bet, 50% with a fair coin. We bet $100,000 on the outcome. I'm a billionaire and you're a 7-11 clerk. Your argument is that the risk is now changed because I have an easier time dealing with losing than you would dealing with losing. You see how this is irrelevant. We both made a decision to flip the coin while gambling on the outcome. Our risk is equal.

What you are talking about is the decision on whether to gamble. The woman has a tougher outcome if she loses. Most sensible people would say that poor
Sure they did. The approval was implicit. That's why as soon as homosexuals started marrying homosexuals

Rock Hudson was not denied the right to get married due to his status as a homosexual. There was no right for a heterosexual man to "marry" a man either.

Whatever is taking place between two men in such a ceremony is not marriage. Homosexuals weren't fighting for the right to get married, they've always had that right, what they were fighting for was to corrupt the meaning of marriage.

and rushed through changes to the marriage laws to include the phrase "between one man and one woman", because you couldn't stand that men, and women were marrying people that you didn't approve of.

No one needs to define what everyone understands. When a law defines a nation's border as running on the East side of a river which separates two countries, there is no need to define what constitutes a river. Later some liberals get it in their head that a river means a treeline and now normal people shake their head and go back to the legislation and define what constitutes a river.

So, are you suggesting that the story was wrong? That what the story talked about didn't happen? If so, then by all means, offer the evidence refuting the story.

I asked you if you could find a normal source because my skin crawls when I go to those hate-sites and have to read the mad ramblings of nutcases. Just find me a liberal mainstream media source and I can muster up the willpower to read that. No more hate-sites please.

Actually, I wasn't attributing the direct quote to you; I was attributing the attitude to you, and placed it in quotes to indicate that the attitude was not mine.

So you can't be man enough to admit that you're arguing against a strawman of your own creation, you need to come back with a second dose of justifying why you created a strawman. Why the fuck would I care about your motivations for creating a strawman argument in our discussion? Really, why would I care? I gave you my position, you ignored it, you made up a position and then you argued it. Why would you believe that I'd be interested in reading or responding to something you conjured up out of thin air and a vivid imagination?

No, there really isn't. And, even if there were, your premise is still wrong. Most men, and women too, do not "accept the risk" of unwanted parenthood just because they have sex (yes, that one was a direct quote of yours). Not only do they not accept that risk, most people don't even consider it.

Are you a woman by chance? I ask because every man KNOWS that if he gets a woman pregnant and he doesn't want to be a father but she wants to have the baby, that he has NO CHOICE but to be a father. Every man knows that if he seeks a pity party about his plight EVERYONE will tell him that he should have thought about this before he had sex, that that was the time to decide. Once he had sex, he was committed to living with the outcome that resulted.

The moment of decision happens when a man consents to sex.
No, I'm not a woman, and that's a crock of shit. What ever man KNOWS is that he can walk away any time, and he doesn't have to be shit. The woman, on the other hand really doesn't have that option, does she? After all, the thing is growing inside of her: kinda hard to just walk away from that. Except, now there's abortion.

[So, please do not insult our intelligence by suggesting that "Men and women face the same risk at the time they decide to have sex." Because they don't. Not even close.

I see that you have trouble with reading comprehension. The risk being referred to is the risk of conception. It's a binary choice - pregnant or not. The risk you're referring to is associated with pregnancy, not conception. The man doesn't face any risk from pregnancy because he can't get pregnant. With the risk of conception, the man is either a father at the moment of conception or he's not a father because no conception took place, and same with the woman, she is either a mother at the moment of conception or not a mother because no conception took place. Both men and women face the same risk when they decide to have sex.

To help you understand, let's look at this dynamic expressed in a different form. You and I are gambling. We gamble on the outcome of a flipped coin. We both face the same risk of losing a bet, 50% with a fair coin. We bet $100,000 on the outcome. I'm a billionaire and you're a 7-11 clerk. Your argument is that the risk is now changed because I have an easier time dealing with losing than you would dealing with losing. You see how this is irrelevant. We both made a decision to flip the coin while gambling on the outcome. Our risk is equal.

What you are talking about is the decision on whether to gamble. The woman has a tougher outcome if she loses. Most sensible people would say that poor people shouldn't gamble with billionaires and women should be more selective about who they sleep with because they have more to lose if they lose the bet.

What you're arguing for is to treat women like children, to give them a do-over, like when the billionaire wants to collect his debt and the kids says "Hey, I'm only 16 and I'm not responsible for my decisions, so the debt I voluntarily took on is now wiped away by my do-over."

people shouldn't gamble with billionaires and women should be more selective about who they sleep with because they have more to lose if they lose the bet.

What you're arguing for is to treat women like children, to give them a do-over, like when the billionaire wants to collect his debt and the kids says "Hey, I'm only 16 and I'm not responsible for my decisions, so the debt I voluntarily took on is now wiped away by my do-over."
My reading comprehension is fine, it is your analogy that is again faulty. If you want to use the gambling analogy it would be more like us both agreeing to flip a coin. but when you lose, you get to just say, "Fuck it," and walk away, while I have no choice but to stay, and suffer the consequences of losing the bet.

You present this silly argument as if you live in an episode of "Leave it to Beaver", where everyone is nice, and polite, and everyone lives happily ever after. Guess what? The real world doesn't work that way. In the real world, some men are dicks. Some men leave. Some men take their do-over whether you, personally, think they are "entitled" to, or not. All abortion does is level the playing field back out again.
 
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So when then does a fetus become a person?

Legally- when a birth certificate is issued.

Fine. We can issue birth certificates at the end of the first month or when the test comes backs positive.
Not to my knowledge they can't, not that I actually agree with the whole "birth certificate" argument, as I already made clear. Care to cite a source to support that claim?


I don't need a source, I just made that definition up. It's a legal fiction, just like the legal fiction that Scott Peterson killing the fetus is murder but if Laci killed the fetus it wouldn't be murder.

Law can be used to make fictional things real.
I agree. Which is why I have always thought that those stupid "unborn citizen" laws are stupid, and need to go away. They create a legal fiction that is just not in line with medical fact.
 
That's not a definition, that's one definition. Another definition is that a person arises at the moment of conception.
No it's not. At least it's not any dictionary meaning. That's kind of the point. Word. Have. Meanings. You don't get to just start making up your own meanings because they happen to fit your agenda. When you do that, it makes rational discourse impossible, because all you are doing is spewing gibberish.

The problem for your definition is the one which comes from advancing neonatal technology. Viability is being pushed ever closer to conception. Eventually the two shall meet. Work is being done on artificial uterii, so at some point the debate is going to shift from abortion to fetal extraction. The women doesn't want to face the health issues related with pregnancy and so the fetus is extracted from her womb and she is therefore free of facing the health issues. Now she will be equal to the father, once the fetus has completed gestation in the artificial uterus it can be "birthed" and the woman will be responsible for her child, just like men are responsible for the children they conceive. It becomes much more difficult to justify killing the child simply because a woman doesn't want to be a mother. Men who don't want to be fathers have their reproductive freedom taken away from them - they're forced to be fathers against their will if that is the choice of the mother. Now women can be equal to men.

Actually, no it's not. Viability is about independent survival. When you have a premature fetus with under-developed lungs, immunity, and other systems, and you have it hooked up to all kinds of machines to keep it alive, until it finishes developing, that isn't viability; it is still dependency. The only thing you have done is replaced the natural host - the woman - with a technological one.
Now, if, and when, we ever reach the point of human-free pregnancy, as you are suggesting, then I will be happy to agree that abortion is no longer needed. Until then, what happens, or doesn't happen,
 
The problem is that all your link to the "Obamacare" stories demonstrate is that Republicans have done a better job of marketing their attacks, than Democrats have their defense. You see, you're right. Most Americans oppose health law but like provisions. When polled generically , without the name attached, the majority of Americans approve of the majority of the provisions within Obamacare. Just as an example, most Americans approved of the provision that provided for the expansion of medicare:

Obamacare-640x484.jpg


And this has proven true across the board. The one glaring exception being the Individual mandate. So, really, all these "Everyone hates Obamacare" polls demonstrate is how good the Republicans were at making the Affordable Care act all about that single provision, while getting the American Public to ignore every other provision in the act that they actually love.

Or maybe it is because of their own individual experiences with the new program and the 6 million who have lost their health care insurance that was very good for them as individuals.
Don't ignore the fact that Conservative Dems and moderates are on the decline within the parties representation.
The Dems are representing the Libs just like the Repubs are representing the conservatives. Both have gone too far left and too far right
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I would challenge that claim. The problem isn't that "Conservative" Dems are on the decline, the problem is that the Conservative Right has moved so far to the right, that those who were once considered "Conservative, and Moderate Democrats" are now perceived, from the current vantage point of the Right, as "extreme liberalism".
Just so we can see where you are coming from, name a couple conservative Democrats.
Jennifer Garrison of Ohio, Gwen Graham of Florida, and James Lee Witt of Arkansas, just to name a few

Now, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being extreme left, rate obama, hillary clinton, John McCain, Allen West and yourself.

Obama: 3
Hillary: 5
McCain: -3
West: -10
Myself: 4

Thanks I did a bit of reading on Gwen Graham.

As to your ratings for the 5 I mentioned, Could you please re read my scale? Where did you get the -3 and -10 for McCain and West?

My ratings for the 4 and myself would be obama 2, hillary clinton 3 John McCain 5, my friend,Allen West 8 and me 9.

Oh! I misunderstood...
Obama: 5
Hillary: 3
West: 9
McCain: 7
Myself: 4

And, I think it is rather telling that you consider yourself extremely far to the right, while I consider myself a little to the Left, and do you notice how much more extreme you perceive Establishment Democrats, than I do?
 
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Except an unborn human fetus (you forgot that part) is, by definition, not a baby, not a person, not an individual. So, abortion, by definition, is not murder. It is you, Sir, who are trying to make up the meanings of words to add emotional impact to your argument.
Abortion is not always murder for no reason other than it is not always illegal.
Sometimes it is, and then it is.
Thus, the correctness of the term 'baby' or 'fetus' is irrelevant.
And, when, exactly is, and should, abortion be illegal?
 
While I am new here, I probably have over 100,000 posts all over the net. And in my experience, that quote is the truth, and the article explains why it is so.

Mark
I looked at your article and lets take, for example, the "survey" of a percentage of reps and dems would not vote for a black candidate...
In 2008, a survey was done that showed similar numbers of Republicans (5.7) and Democrats (6.8) would not vote for a black presidential candidate.
...and the link provided, takes you to this little table...



...and this little table uses a link to the "data" as its proof. However, when you go to "that" link, all you get is a webpage that tells you how to make charts...



...which doesn't really justify the claims made about the voting. Nor does the hypothetical scenarios at the beginning of the article.

To sum it up, IMHO, you're not proving your claim. But whatever you want to consider "your truth", is fine with me.

There you have it, a response from a liberal without all the vitriol and hateful rhetoric. No Joe Wilson "You lie!" screams, or Tom Tancredo "Jim Crow Laws", or pumpkin-head singing "Barack the magic negro", or the witch hunt against ACORN, or all the voter suppression laws throughout the country being enforced in these gerrymandered, state run, republican districts, or the assault on Medicare or Social Security, just a respectful rebuttal from one forum member to another.

BTW, you will find that I am the nicest, most respectful poster, at this website.
 
Except an unborn human fetus (you forgot that part) is, by definition, not a baby, not a person, not an individual. So, abortion, by definition, is not murder. It is you, Sir, who are trying to make up the meanings of words to add emotional impact to your argument.
Abortion is not always murder for no reason other than it is not always illegal.
Sometimes it is, and then it is.
Thus, the correctness of the term 'baby' or 'fetus' is irrelevant.
And, when, exactly is, and should, abortion be illegal?
In any instance where the life of the mother is not in clear, present and immediate danger.
Otherwise you do nothing but end an innocent human life for the sake of convenience.
 
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Graduate high school, stay out of trouble with the law and your job opportunities are endless. If there are no jobs in your neighborhood, it's likely that the businesses all moved away because of high crime, high taxes and a meager qualified labor pool. Make your neighborhoods attractive to business and businesses will come, but if I want to open a factory, I'm going to put it where I can get employees to come to work without fear of being mugged, where I won't be broken into every week and where I won't get burnt out when cops have to shoot a "gentle giant".

It's not my responsibility to fix your families. It's not my job to educate you. I don't force you to sell drugs or steal cars. Grow the fuck up and take responsibility for your actions and get the hell out of my wallet.

Yeah, Ernie, you aren't at all racist.

Hey, funny thing. The mostly white neighborhood I grew up with meets all your criteria, and guess what, most of the manufacturing jobs vanished there, too.

The 1%ers aren't destroying and offshoring jobs because the police can't shoot "Gentle Giants" in cold blood inthe middle of the street when they have their hands up.

They're doing it because they are insanely greedy.
They're doing it because they are in business to make a profit. They're doing it because consumers won't pay for a product that costs what it would if it were made with union labor. They're doing it so they can provide you with consumer goods that you can afford and will buy. When the cost of doing business goes up, a company must find ways to cut costs in order to remain competitive. Go ahead! Mandate that all consumer goods be manufactured in the US and see what that will do to the cost of your 60" plasma TV.
 
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And the second quoted article explains why blacks as a rule. go no further than Congressman.

You really expect the GOP to nominate blacks just because they're black?

Hey guy! When 95% of blacks are Democrats, we don't have quite the bench you have.

BUT I'm happy to say that none of our few blacks think Guam is in danger of capsizing.

No, yours think that it's okay to punch out your girlfriend in an elevator if they get mouthy.

BenCarson.jpg
Where do you get that Carson says punching your girlfriend is OK from that statement? Define "Terrible Plague".
 
You might have a point if these were true,but they are not,the only truth hear is the fact that the left will say anything to personally smear what they see as a threat,and anyone different is a threat.They do NOT practice what they preach.

Easy....convince people otherwise

Republicans are not a "white mans party" show why 90% white is not a white mans party. Explain why only six blacks have been elected to higher office by Republicans in the last 100 years
MONTGOMERY, Alabama --- The Alabama Republican Party says 11 black candidates are running in the GOP primary on June 3, and officials say that shows the party is making strides with African Americans.

State Republican Party Chairman Bill Armistead, who hired a full-time minority outreach director last year, said he thinks the GOP can build on the number.

“It’s by far the largest we’ve ever had,” Armistead said. “Is it where we want to be? No. We will have more in the future.”

Republicans hold every statewide office in Alabama and a majority in the Legislature, but none of those seats are held by black Republicans.

Joe Reed, longtime leader of the Alabama Democratic Conference, said blacks won’t move to the Republican Party on any significant scale because of GOP opposition to programs such as Obamacare, raising the minimum wage, extending long-term unemployment benefits and other “bread and butter” issues that Reed said help working families.
There are five black Republican candidates for the state House of Representatives, one for the Public Service Commission, two for sheriff, two for seats on county commissions and one for a county school board seat, according to Troy Towns, minority outreach director for the state GOP. Another black Republican is running in a special election to fill a vacant House seat in Birmingham to complete a current term..

Towns said there was only one black Republican in the 2010 primary and one in 2012. He thinks this year’s number is not a fluke, but a sign of things to come.
Eleven blacks on the ballot as Republicans in Alabama s June primary AL.com


But some experts say the small number of black Republicans in office could also emerge as major candidates. Unlike black Democrats, black Republicans tend to get elected in majority-white areas, meaning they often have a broader coalition of voters who have already supported them when they seek a higher office.
Obama aside blacks struggle to win major offices theGrio

I ask about blacks elected to higher office and you come back with state legislature

Higher office: Congressman, Senator, Governor, President

Republicans have elected SIX in the last 100 years and five have been Congressmen
And the second quoted article explains why blacks as a rule. go no further than Congressman.

You really expect the GOP to nominate blacks just because they're black?

Hey guy! When 95% of blacks are Democrats, we don't have quite the bench you have.

BUT I'm happy to say that none of our few blacks think Guam is in danger of capsizing.
I understand now......Republicans don't nominate blacks because they are black, they nominate the best qualified person
They just have only found six blacks who were qualified in the last one hundred years
Given that blacks had been mostly apolitical until the 60's and 95% Democrat since, they have not availed themselves to good educations and their relatively small percentage of the over-all population, I don't think 6 blacks willing and qualified to run as Republicans in the last 100 years is so far out of line.
 
Except an unborn human fetus (you forgot that part) is, by definition, not a baby, not a person, not an individual. So, abortion, by definition, is not murder. It is you, Sir, who are trying to make up the meanings of words to add emotional impact to your argument.
Abortion is not always murder for no reason other than it is not always illegal.
Sometimes it is, and then it is.
Thus, the correctness of the term 'baby' or 'fetus' is irrelevant.
And, when, exactly is, and should, abortion be illegal?
In any instance where the life of the mother is not in clear, present and immediate danger.
Otherwise you do nothing but end an innocent human life for the sake of convenience.
You keep throwing around these terms that don't mean what you keep trying to make them mean, as if that adds weight to your argument. You do realize that cancer cells also carry all of the DNA of humans, and therefore do fit your very definition of a "human life", right? Sorry. It takes a little more than "human life" to warrant any kind of special consideration from rational people. If all you have are emotional pleas, this debate is going to be very one-sided.
 
Or maybe it is because of their own individual experiences with the new program and the 6 million who have lost their health care insurance that was very good for them as individuals.
Don't ignore the fact that Conservative Dems and moderates are on the decline within the parties representation.
The Dems are representing the Libs just like the Repubs are representing the conservatives. Both have gone too far left and too far right
.
I would challenge that claim. The problem isn't that "Conservative" Dems are on the decline, the problem is that the Conservative Right has moved so far to the right, that those who were once considered "Conservative, and Moderate Democrats" are now perceived, from the current vantage point of the Right, as "extreme liberalism".
Just so we can see where you are coming from, name a couple conservative Democrats.
Jennifer Garrison of Ohio, Gwen Graham of Florida, and James Lee Witt of Arkansas, just to name a few

Now, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being extreme left, rate obama, hillary clinton, John McCain, Allen West and yourself.

Obama: 3
Hillary: 5
McCain: -3
West: -10
Myself: 4

Thanks I did a bit of reading on Gwen Graham.

As to your ratings for the 5 I mentioned, Could you please re read my scale? Where did you get the -3 and -10 for McCain and West?

My ratings for the 4 and myself would be obama 2, hillary clinton 3 John McCain 5, my friend,Allen West 8 and me 9.

Oh! I misunderstood...
Obama: 5
Hillary: 3
West: 9
McCain: 7
Myself: 4

And, I think it is rather telling that you consider yourself extremely far to the right, while I consider myself a little to the Left, and do you notice how much more extreme you perceive Establishment Democrats, than I do?
I was just trying to get a feeling for how you perceive yourself AND where you think the center is.

I happen to know Allen West personally so my placing myself to his right is reasonable. I find it remarkable that YOU place obama at the center and hillary to his left. That tells me a lot.
 
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Easy....convince people otherwise

Republicans are not a "white mans party" show why 90% white is not a white mans party. Explain why only six blacks have been elected to higher office by Republicans in the last 100 years
MONTGOMERY, Alabama --- The Alabama Republican Party says 11 black candidates are running in the GOP primary on June 3, and officials say that shows the party is making strides with African Americans.

State Republican Party Chairman Bill Armistead, who hired a full-time minority outreach director last year, said he thinks the GOP can build on the number.

“It’s by far the largest we’ve ever had,” Armistead said. “Is it where we want to be? No. We will have more in the future.”

Republicans hold every statewide office in Alabama and a majority in the Legislature, but none of those seats are held by black Republicans.

Joe Reed, longtime leader of the Alabama Democratic Conference, said blacks won’t move to the Republican Party on any significant scale because of GOP opposition to programs such as Obamacare, raising the minimum wage, extending long-term unemployment benefits and other “bread and butter” issues that Reed said help working families.
There are five black Republican candidates for the state House of Representatives, one for the Public Service Commission, two for sheriff, two for seats on county commissions and one for a county school board seat, according to Troy Towns, minority outreach director for the state GOP. Another black Republican is running in a special election to fill a vacant House seat in Birmingham to complete a current term..

Towns said there was only one black Republican in the 2010 primary and one in 2012. He thinks this year’s number is not a fluke, but a sign of things to come.
Eleven blacks on the ballot as Republicans in Alabama s June primary AL.com


But some experts say the small number of black Republicans in office could also emerge as major candidates. Unlike black Democrats, black Republicans tend to get elected in majority-white areas, meaning they often have a broader coalition of voters who have already supported them when they seek a higher office.
Obama aside blacks struggle to win major offices theGrio

I ask about blacks elected to higher office and you come back with state legislature

Higher office: Congressman, Senator, Governor, President

Republicans have elected SIX in the last 100 years and five have been Congressmen
And the second quoted article explains why blacks as a rule. go no further than Congressman.

You really expect the GOP to nominate blacks just because they're black?

Hey guy! When 95% of blacks are Democrats, we don't have quite the bench you have.

BUT I'm happy to say that none of our few blacks think Guam is in danger of capsizing.
I understand now......Republicans don't nominate blacks because they are black, they nominate the best qualified person
They just have only found six blacks who were qualified in the last one hundred years
Given that blacks had been mostly apolitical until the 60's and 95% Democrat since, they have not availed themselves to good educations and their relatively small percentage of the over-all population, I don't think 6 blacks willing and qualified to run as Republicans in the last 100 years is so far out of line.
Damn....that is just plain offensive
Blacks don't vote Republican because they are not educated?
Can you understand why you drive blacks away from your party?
 
[
Graduate high school, stay out of trouble with the law and your job opportunities are endless. If there are no jobs in your neighborhood, it's likely that the businesses all moved away because of high crime, high taxes and a meager qualified labor pool. Make your neighborhoods attractive to business and businesses will come, but if I want to open a factory, I'm going to put it where I can get employees to come to work without fear of being mugged, where I won't be broken into every week and where I won't get burnt out when cops have to shoot a "gentle giant".

It's not my responsibility to fix your families. It's not my job to educate you. I don't force you to sell drugs or steal cars. Grow the fuck up and take responsibility for your actions and get the hell out of my wallet.

Yeah, Ernie, you aren't at all racist.

Hey, funny thing. The mostly white neighborhood I grew up with meets all your criteria, and guess what, most of the manufacturing jobs vanished there, too.

The 1%ers aren't destroying and offshoring jobs because the police can't shoot "Gentle Giants" in cold blood inthe middle of the street when they have their hands up.

They're doing it because they are insanely greedy.
They're doing it because they are in business to make a profit. They're doing it because consumers won't pay for a product that costs what it would if it were made with union labor. They're doing it so they can provide you with consumer goods that you can afford and will buy. When the cost of doing business goes up, a company must find ways to cut costs in order to remain competitive. Go ahead! Mandate that all consumer goods be manufactured in the US and see what that will do to the cost of your 60" plasma TV.

Why would I want a 60" Plasma TV?

Also, I've never bought that things would be that much more expensive if made here. I price components all day, and yeah, I guess the Chinese components are cheaper. They also have longer lead times, the costs of shipping, the frequent quality problems.

90% of my quality issues come from two Chinese suppliers.

Also,f rankly, if no one has a good paying job, no one can afford a 60" plasma TV regardless of how cheaply you make it.
 
In any instance where the life of the mother is not in clear, present and immediate danger.
Otherwise you do nothing but end an innocent human life for the sake of convenience.
You keep throwing around these terms that don't mean what you keep trying to make them mean, as if that adds weight to your argument.
Hardly.
You do realize that cancer cells also carry all of the DNA of humans, and therefore do fit your very definition of a "human life", right?
Not hardly. An arm, a leg, a tumor -- these are not human lives, these a part of a human.
An unborn child, at any stage? A human life.
Now, did you have a reasoned argument agianst my position?
 

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