The root cause of the lack of "Civil Discourse"

[thanatos144]

They are?

When the people rose up and told Congress that they need to focus on jobs and not pass a health care bill what happened?

When the members of Congress went home to hold meetings about health care and they trucked in union goons, and loaded the audience rather than listen to the people they are supposed to represent. The political class never listens, on either side of the aisle, because they believe they are smarter, better, and more deserving than us.

Not that I am surprised that you think they are listening, because you never listen yourself.

When the 'people rose up'? You mean the people in a 'grass roots' movement started by corporate lobbyists?

'When the members of Congress went home to hold meetings about health care and they trucked in' (in buses paid for by the lobbyist organization) people given written instructions from the same lobbyist organization how to disrupt and shout down debate?

Have you read the Health Care bill? If you have'nt you should.
Me and My husband did and we drove ourselves to our townhall meeting and It was 43 miles away from where we live. We had nothing do with corporate lobbyists.
Are you talking about the union's (SEIU ) that was trucked in and given instruction's?

Liberals refuse to believe conservatives or hell normal people dont act as dishonestly as them.

 

[chanel]

Why were people so violent in the 60's? What caused Bill Ayers to want to blow up buildings and kill cops? Internet? Glen Beck? Fox News? Rap Music?

Things that make you go hmmm.

 

[BenNatuf]

They are?

When the people rose up and told Congress that they need to focus on jobs and not pass a health care bill what happened?

When the members of Congress went home to hold meetings about health care and they trucked in union goons, and loaded the audience rather than listen to the people they are supposed to represent. The political class never listens, on either side of the aisle, because they believe they are smarter, better, and more deserving than us.

Not that I am surprised that you think they are listening, because you never listen yourself.

When the 'people rose up'? You mean the people in a 'grass roots' movement started by corporate lobbyists?

'When the members of Congress went home to hold meetings about health care and they trucked in' (in buses paid for by the lobbyist organization) people given written instructions from the same lobbyist organization how to disrupt and shout down debate?

Have you read the Health Care bill? If you have'nt you should.
Me and My husband did and we drove ourselves to our townhall meeting and It was 43 miles away from where we live. We had nothing do with corporate lobbyists.
Are you talking about the union's (SEIU ) that was trucked in and given instruction's?

Why would anyone read it? Now that it's been passed we know what's in it!

 

[thanatos144]

Why were people so violent in the 60's? What caused Bill Ayers to want to blow up buildings and kill cops? Internet? Glen Beck? Fox News? Rap Music?

Things that make you go hmmm.

communism happened....Through Chaos they think they can bring their socialist paradise. It is an old Soviet union tactic.

 

[Bfgrn]

When the 'people rose up'? You mean the people in a 'grass roots' movement started by corporate lobbyists?

'When the members of Congress went home to hold meetings about health care and they trucked in' (in buses paid for by the lobbyist organization) people given written instructions from the same lobbyist organization how to disrupt and shout down debate?

Have you read the Health Care bill? If you have'nt you should.
Me and My husband did and we drove ourselves to our townhall meeting and It was 43 miles away from where we live. We had nothing do with corporate lobbyists.
Are you talking about the union's (SEIU ) that was trucked in and given instruction's?

Liberals refuse to believe conservatives or hell normal people dont act as dishonestly as them.

Bluster and ignorance is not an argument. If you really did read the bill, you would support most of it.

As a liberal, there are things I don't like. There should have been a public option and more progressive ideas in the bill. But the Progressives were basically shut out by the Senate, people like LIEberman, the Senator from Aetna, Blue dogs like Ben Nelson and the White House.

The part most people object to is the Individual Mandate. An idea Republicans have been pushing for 30 years.

The Democrats basically passed the 1993 Republican health care proposal. That includes a BIG Republican idea...THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE

Chart: Comparing Health Reform Bills: Democrats and Republicans 2009, Republicans 1993 - Kaiser Health News
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Thirty Year History Of Republicans Supporting the Individual Mandate

Republican support for the individual mandate policy goes back further than this health care reform discussion. Earlier this month, Julie Rovner profiled a history of the policy dating back to the 1980′s

In fact, says Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea. “It was invented by Mark Pauly to give to George Bush Sr. back in the day, as a competition to the employer mandate focus of the Democrats at the time.”…

“We called this responsible national health insurance,” says Pauly. “There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn’t be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens.”

The policy was originally included in many Republican proposals including the proposals during the Clinton administration. The leading GOP alternative plan known as the 1994 Consumer Choice Health Security Act included the requirement to purchase insurance. Further, this proposal was based off of a 1990 Heritage Foundation proposal outlined a quality health system where “government would require, by law every head of household to acquire at least a basic health plan for his or her family.”

 

[thanatos144]

Have you read the Health Care bill? If you have'nt you should.
Me and My husband did and we drove ourselves to our townhall meeting and It was 43 miles away from where we live. We had nothing do with corporate lobbyists.
Are you talking about the union's (SEIU ) that was trucked in and given instruction's?

Liberals refuse to believe conservatives or hell normal people dont act as dishonestly as them.

Bluster and ignorance is not an argument. If you really did read the bill, you would support most of it.

As a liberal, there are things I don't like. There should have been a public option and more progressive ideas in the bill. But the Progressives were basically shut out by the Senate, people like LIEberman, the Senator from Aetna, Blue dogs like Ben Nelson and the White House.

The part most people object to is the Individual Mandate. An idea Republicans have been pushing for 30 years.

The Democrats basically passed the 1993 Republican health care proposal. That includes a BIG Republican idea...THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE

Chart: Comparing Health Reform Bills: Democrats and Republicans 2009, Republicans 1993 - Kaiser Health News
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Thirty Year History Of Republicans Supporting the Individual Mandate

Republican support for the individual mandate policy goes back further than this health care reform discussion. Earlier this month, Julie Rovner profiled a history of the policy dating back to the 1980′s

In fact, says Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea. “It was invented by Mark Pauly to give to George Bush Sr. back in the day, as a competition to the employer mandate focus of the Democrats at the time.”…

“We called this responsible national health insurance,” says Pauly. “There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn’t be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens.”

The policy was originally included in many Republican proposals including the proposals during the Clinton administration. The leading GOP alternative plan known as the 1994 Consumer Choice Health Security Act included the requirement to purchase insurance. Further, this proposal was based off of a 1990 Heritage Foundation proposal outlined a quality health system where “government would require, by law every head of household to acquire at least a basic health plan for his or her family.”

No I wouldnt cause I love my free country.I am not some sycophantic asshole who needs the government to wipe my ass.

 

[Old Rocks]

The shootings in Arizona have brought the concept of civility in political discussion to the front of message boards, pundit blogs, and all of the mainstream media formats....

Only because authoritarian left wing hacks, along with their useful idiot hack fellow travelers in the lamestream media, want to cower behind the dead and wounded, in order to move forward their desire to limit and outright censor the speech of all who have the temerity to oppose them.

The good news is that few people, outside of the loony left, are buying into their transparent and cynical political ploy.

Lordy, lordy, once again demonstrating exactly why people are looking at the right wingnuts with a lot of disdain. You create a poisoned discourse, then blame it, with vitrolic rhetoric, on whomever you are verbally assualting.

 

[Old Rocks]

Liberals refuse to believe conservatives or hell normal people dont act as dishonestly as them.

Bluster and ignorance is not an argument. If you really did read the bill, you would support most of it.

As a liberal, there are things I don't like. There should have been a public option and more progressive ideas in the bill. But the Progressives were basically shut out by the Senate, people like LIEberman, the Senator from Aetna, Blue dogs like Ben Nelson and the White House.

The part most people object to is the Individual Mandate. An idea Republicans have been pushing for 30 years.

The Democrats basically passed the 1993 Republican health care proposal. That includes a BIG Republican idea...THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE

Chart: Comparing Health Reform Bills: Democrats and Republicans 2009, Republicans 1993 - Kaiser Health News
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Thirty Year History Of Republicans Supporting the Individual Mandate

Republican support for the individual mandate policy goes back further than this health care reform discussion. Earlier this month, Julie Rovner profiled a history of the policy dating back to the 1980′s

In fact, says Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea. “It was invented by Mark Pauly to give to George Bush Sr. back in the day, as a competition to the employer mandate focus of the Democrats at the time.”…

“We called this responsible national health insurance,” says Pauly. “There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn’t be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens.”

The policy was originally included in many Republican proposals including the proposals during the Clinton administration. The leading GOP alternative plan known as the 1994 Consumer Choice Health Security Act included the requirement to purchase insurance. Further, this proposal was based off of a 1990 Heritage Foundation proposal outlined a quality health system where “government would require, by law every head of household to acquire at least a basic health plan for his or her family.”

No I wouldnt cause I love my free country.I am not some sycophantic asshole who needs the government to wipe my ass.

No, you are just a total idiot that continues to deny how much you depend on government at all levels.

Gotta love how you fools preach hate of our government. Yet, as a democratic republic, our government is representative of the people. And, by preaching such irrational hate, you are preaching hate of your fellow citizens.

Then you wonder why, when some complete looney, begins to act on your kind of rhetoric, that people remind you of what you have said in the past. You people have only yourselves to blame.

 

[Bfgrn]

Liberals refuse to believe conservatives or hell normal people dont act as dishonestly as them.

Bluster and ignorance is not an argument. If you really did read the bill, you would support most of it.

As a liberal, there are things I don't like. There should have been a public option and more progressive ideas in the bill. But the Progressives were basically shut out by the Senate, people like LIEberman, the Senator from Aetna, Blue dogs like Ben Nelson and the White House.

The part most people object to is the Individual Mandate. An idea Republicans have been pushing for 30 years.

The Democrats basically passed the 1993 Republican health care proposal. That includes a BIG Republican idea...THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE

Chart: Comparing Health Reform Bills: Democrats and Republicans 2009, Republicans 1993 - Kaiser Health News
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Thirty Year History Of Republicans Supporting the Individual Mandate

Republican support for the individual mandate policy goes back further than this health care reform discussion. Earlier this month, Julie Rovner profiled a history of the policy dating back to the 1980′s

In fact, says Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea. “It was invented by Mark Pauly to give to George Bush Sr. back in the day, as a competition to the employer mandate focus of the Democrats at the time.”…

“We called this responsible national health insurance,” says Pauly. “There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn’t be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens.”

The policy was originally included in many Republican proposals including the proposals during the Clinton administration. The leading GOP alternative plan known as the 1994 Consumer Choice Health Security Act included the requirement to purchase insurance. Further, this proposal was based off of a 1990 Heritage Foundation proposal outlined a quality health system where “government would require, by law every head of household to acquire at least a basic health plan for his or her family.”

No I wouldnt cause I love my free country.I am not some sycophantic asshole who needs the government to wipe my ass.

Free country? You mean you support the insurance cartels freedom to have REAL death panels, deny coverage for treatment to people who have life threatening illnesses. Fellow citizens who played by all the rules and did NOTHING wrong other than contract a 'expensive' disease. American who diligently paid their premiums.

You love America, it's just AmericaNS you have contempt for.

 

[Old Rocks]

Why were people so violent in the 60's? What caused Bill Ayers to want to blow up buildings and kill cops? Internet? Glen Beck? Fox News? Rap Music?

Things that make you go hmmm.

Yes, in the 60s, the violent rhetoric was on the left. And a lot of people, myself included, let people that were making such statements know how we felt about that.

But for the last two years, almost the totality of violent statements have come from the right. The characterization of our government as evil has come from the right. In spite of the fact that the Constitution of the United States starts with the words, "We, the people". Essentially, what the right has been stating is that anyone that disagreed with them should not even be considered human. On this board, we have seen a number of people discuss the 'elimination' of the left in this nation.

You on the right have created the problem of how you are percieved.

 

[Old Rocks]

Bluster and ignorance is not an argument. If you really did read the bill, you would support most of it.

As a liberal, there are things I don't like. There should have been a public option and more progressive ideas in the bill. But the Progressives were basically shut out by the Senate, people like LIEberman, the Senator from Aetna, Blue dogs like Ben Nelson and the White House.

The part most people object to is the Individual Mandate. An idea Republicans have been pushing for 30 years.

The Democrats basically passed the 1993 Republican health care proposal. That includes a BIG Republican idea...THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE

Chart: Comparing Health Reform Bills: Democrats and Republicans 2009, Republicans 1993 - Kaiser Health News
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Thirty Year History Of Republicans Supporting the Individual Mandate

Republican support for the individual mandate policy goes back further than this health care reform discussion. Earlier this month, Julie Rovner profiled a history of the policy dating back to the 1980′s

In fact, says Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea. “It was invented by Mark Pauly to give to George Bush Sr. back in the day, as a competition to the employer mandate focus of the Democrats at the time.”…

“We called this responsible national health insurance,” says Pauly. “There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn’t be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens.”

The policy was originally included in many Republican proposals including the proposals during the Clinton administration. The leading GOP alternative plan known as the 1994 Consumer Choice Health Security Act included the requirement to purchase insurance. Further, this proposal was based off of a 1990 Heritage Foundation proposal outlined a quality health system where “government would require, by law every head of household to acquire at least a basic health plan for his or her family.”

No I wouldnt cause I love my free country.I am not some sycophantic asshole who needs the government to wipe my ass.

Free country? You mean you support the insurance cartels freedom to have REAL death panels, deny coverage for treatment to people who have life threatening illnesses. Fellow citizens who played by all the rules and did NOTHING wrong other than contract a 'expensive' disease. American who diligently paid their premiums.

You love America, it's just AmericaNS you have contempt for.

Exactly. We saw the Death Panel in operation in Arizona, as Governor Jan Brewer took the liver that would have saved a citizens life away from him as he was being wheeled into the operating room. The very definition of Conservative Compassion.

 

[thanatos144]

Bluster and ignorance is not an argument. If you really did read the bill, you would support most of it.

As a liberal, there are things I don't like. There should have been a public option and more progressive ideas in the bill. But the Progressives were basically shut out by the Senate, people like LIEberman, the Senator from Aetna, Blue dogs like Ben Nelson and the White House.

The part most people object to is the Individual Mandate. An idea Republicans have been pushing for 30 years.

The Democrats basically passed the 1993 Republican health care proposal. That includes a BIG Republican idea...THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE

Chart: Comparing Health Reform Bills: Democrats and Republicans 2009, Republicans 1993 - Kaiser Health News
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Thirty Year History Of Republicans Supporting the Individual Mandate

Republican support for the individual mandate policy goes back further than this health care reform discussion. Earlier this month, Julie Rovner profiled a history of the policy dating back to the 1980′s

In fact, says Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea. “It was invented by Mark Pauly to give to George Bush Sr. back in the day, as a competition to the employer mandate focus of the Democrats at the time.”…

“We called this responsible national health insurance,” says Pauly. “There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn’t be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens.”

The policy was originally included in many Republican proposals including the proposals during the Clinton administration. The leading GOP alternative plan known as the 1994 Consumer Choice Health Security Act included the requirement to purchase insurance. Further, this proposal was based off of a 1990 Heritage Foundation proposal outlined a quality health system where “government would require, by law every head of household to acquire at least a basic health plan for his or her family.”

No I wouldnt cause I love my free country.I am not some sycophantic asshole who needs the government to wipe my ass.

Free country? You mean you support the insurance cartels freedom to have REAL death panels, deny coverage for treatment to people who have life threatening illnesses. Fellow citizens who played by all the rules and did NOTHING wrong other than contract a 'expensive' disease. American who diligently paid their premiums.

You love America, it's just AmericaNS you have contempt for.

You mean the health care industry that was the envy of the world? Yes I loved it.

 

[thanatos144]

No I wouldnt cause I love my free country.I am not some sycophantic asshole who needs the government to wipe my ass.

Free country? You mean you support the insurance cartels freedom to have REAL death panels, deny coverage for treatment to people who have life threatening illnesses. Fellow citizens who played by all the rules and did NOTHING wrong other than contract a 'expensive' disease. American who diligently paid their premiums.

You love America, it's just AmericaNS you have contempt for.

Exactly. We saw the Death Panel in operation in Arizona, as Governor Jan Brewer took the liver that would have saved a citizens life away from him as he was being wheeled into the operating room. The very definition of Conservative Compassion.

did you eat paint chips as a kid?

 

[Sail Away]

Q: This brings us to the question; Do you think that the people on the other side of the aisle can have an opinion and not be stupid/evil/greedy/facist/communist/sheeple/goverment agents?

A: Not just no, but F**KING HELL NO! There is way to much at stake. Of the 9 empires that fell over the last century, 5 of the fell from insolvency. Although the US is a a "inadvertent empire" it is still substitutable for ruin. The insolvency of of this country is currently estimated at $13.4 trillion by the CBO and $57 trillion by private entities. I would like future generations to have comparable opportunities to what I've had. Nice idealistic post though.

 

[Bfgrn]

No I wouldnt cause I love my free country.I am not some sycophantic asshole who needs the government to wipe my ass.

Free country? You mean you support the insurance cartels freedom to have REAL death panels, deny coverage for treatment to people who have life threatening illnesses. Fellow citizens who played by all the rules and did NOTHING wrong other than contract a 'expensive' disease. American who diligently paid their premiums.

You love America, it's just AmericaNS you have contempt for.

You mean the health care industry that was the envy of the world? Yes I loved it.

So you don't have any problem with insurance corporations being controlled by Wall Street investors who severely punish companies who pay out too much money for medical treatments?

The American people are not stockholders, we are STAKEholders. Intelligent people understand the difference.

America may have great medical schools and research centers, but the medical outcomes FOR American citizens is a different story.

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland

 

[BenNatuf]

Why were people so violent in the 60's? What caused Bill Ayers to want to blow up buildings and kill cops? Internet? Glen Beck? Fox News? Rap Music?

Things that make you go hmmm.

Yes, in the 60s, the violent rhetoric was on the left. And a lot of people, myself included, let people that were making such statements know how we felt about that.

But for the last two years, almost the totality of violent statements have come from the right. The characterization of our government as evil has come from the right. In spite of the fact that the Constitution of the United States starts with the words, "We, the people". Essentially, what the right has been stating is that anyone that disagreed with them should not even be considered human. On this board, we have seen a number of people discuss the 'elimination' of the left in this nation.

You on the right have created the problem of how you are percieved.

Totality of statements from the right? LOL, what a rube.

Just to let you know I may bring my "gun" to the "knife" fight to join in the "hand to hand combat" on capitol hill so we can "punish our enemies"... maybe even the Governor of Fl will get "put up against the wall and shot" and with luck "die quickly". [/sarcasm]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When the 'people rose up'? You mean the people in a 'grass roots' movement started by corporate lobbyists?

ACORN did that, and Congress listened. What's your beef there?

'When the members of Congress went home to hold meetings about health care and they trucked in' (in buses paid for by the lobbyist organization) people given written instructions from the same lobbyist organization how to disrupt and shout down debate?

Are you talking about the purple shirts that were trucked in from everywhere to flood the meetings, and who, when interviewed, said they opposed the health care but were ordered in by their union reps

 

[Quantum Windbag]

They are?

When the people rose up and told Congress that they need to focus on jobs and not pass a health care bill what happened?

When the members of Congress went home to hold meetings about health care and they trucked in union goons, and loaded the audience rather than listen to the people they are supposed to represent. The political class never listens, on either side of the aisle, because they believe they are smarter, better, and more deserving than us.

Not that I am surprised that you think they are listening, because you never listen yourself.

When the 'people rose up'? You mean the people in a 'grass roots' movement started by corporate lobbyists?

'When the members of Congress went home to hold meetings about health care and they trucked in' (in buses paid for by the lobbyist organization) people given written instructions from the same lobbyist organization how to disrupt and shout down debate?

Have you read the Health Care bill? If you have'nt you should.
Me and My husband did and we drove ourselves to our townhall meeting and It was 43 miles away from where we live. We had nothing do with corporate lobbyists.
Are you talking about the union's (SEIU ) that was trucked in and given instruction's?

No, he is talking about you. The Left does not comprehend grass roots organizations because they organize from the top down for everything. They do this because so few people are really passionate about the things they care about, and the only way they can get people to show up is pay them.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The shootings in Arizona have brought the concept of civility in political discussion to the front of message boards, pundit blogs, and all of the mainstream media formats....

Only because authoritarian left wing hacks, along with their useful idiot hack fellow travelers in the lamestream media, want to cower behind the dead and wounded, in order to move forward their desire to limit and outright censor the speech of all who have the temerity to oppose them.

The good news is that few people, outside of the loony left, are buying into their transparent and cynical political ploy.

Lordy, lordy, once again demonstrating exactly why people are looking at the right wingnuts with a lot of disdain. You create a poisoned discourse, then blame it, with vitrolic rhetoric, on whomever you are verbally assualting.

That was interesting.

Tell me, when idiots burn up an SUV to save the Earth do you blame that on right wing rhetoric also?

 

[Bfgrn]

When the 'people rose up'? You mean the people in a 'grass roots' movement started by corporate lobbyists?

'When the members of Congress went home to hold meetings about health care and they trucked in' (in buses paid for by the lobbyist organization) people given written instructions from the same lobbyist organization how to disrupt and shout down debate?

Have you read the Health Care bill? If you have'nt you should.
Me and My husband did and we drove ourselves to our townhall meeting and It was 43 miles away from where we live. We had nothing do with corporate lobbyists.
Are you talking about the union's (SEIU ) that was trucked in and given instruction's?

No, he is talking about you. The Left does not comprehend grass roots organizations because they organize from the top down for everything. They do this because so few people are really passionate about the things they care about, and the only way they can get people to show up is pay them.

When you first came on this board and 'claimed' to be a classic liberal, I thought you might add something intelligent. You lied, and have turned out to be one of the most uninformed right wingers.

Most grass roots organizations on the left, like environmental groups are bottom up.

Last year the tea partiers, many of them on the public dole, went from town to town on buses paid for by Dick Armey's Freedomworks. They went to town hall meeting mindlessly pushing for the insurance cartels' agenda, as pawns of their lobbyist founders, NOT the people. The 'movement' is funded by Koch Oil, one of the biggest polluters on the planet.