CDZ The roles for men and women in a relationship need to be redefined

[Christophera]

I don't agree with one of your premises - I don't think that the percentage of married couples is an indicator of whether or not children have both parents in their lives - many couples with children that I know have never bothered to get married yet still live together and raise their children together - as well as couples who are no longer together yet share custody of their children.

Marriage is not the same as a child having two parents in their lives.

You are correct with relationship to children within the sphere of the immediate family.

The role of marriage that is missing relates to the natural law responsibility of fertility in society. None get the benefit of that in its greater function which was political.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Lastly - What has your experience been when it comes to relationships with the ultimate sex.

I have forgone romance for the time being. Oh, hey, I would like to be, but a lot of women that I see are too hyper sexualized. I can't stand it. Sex is great in moderation, but there needs to be time for a relationship. A good Christian one. And no, I'm not looking people up on Christian Mingle either. That place is a farce and uses Christianity as a sales gimmick.

 

[NoNukes]

With the role of feminism in the 70's women are now more educated and hold more jobs than men in today's society. The mans motive for marriage was the be the provider, the protector, and the leader of the household. Clearly that is not the case anymore with the avg age of men getting married is at 29, and women at age 27, which is a 78% increase since 1960. Married adults in 1960 was at 72% and now is at 51%, which screams that marriage isn't as important as it used to be for both sexes, however women see the need more than men. Those numbers are trending in the same direction that they have been and pretty soon adult marriages will drop below 50%. Also, keep in mind that the new divorce rate is falling but at 3.6 divorces for every 1000 households. However, that's likely to go down due to less people getting married. Naturally.

This is VERY alarming! It's also terrible news for children who study's have shown need BOTH parents for stability in their childhood lives.

There's 2 directions I want this thread to focus on and if you can think of any other areas for concern please feel free to elaborate on them.

1.) What does this mean for Men and Women's relationships in general dating or marriage? What's the point of dating if marriage isn't the ultimate goal of importance?

2.) What does this mean for children with only a mother or only a father or neither?

Lastly - What has your experience been when it comes to relationships with the ultimate sex.

emilynghiem

Mods - Delete trolling off-topic posts in this thread. This is a serious discussion in the CDZ. Thank you. Coyote theDoctorisIn AyeCantSeeYou

A key premise within your question/argument is deeply flawed.

There is no credible research that supports the conclusion that children are better off with a male parent and a female parent.

The research only supports the concept that two parents are better than one.

It's simple math.

Parenting is a tough job, and with the emotional advantages children often hold over their parents, one parent alone has that parent emotionally outnumbered.

It doesn't matter what sex the parents are.

Thank you. This fact was brought out in the Irish referendum on gay marriage when the No side resorted to scare tactics.

 

[TemplarKormac]

This fact was brought out in the Irish referendum on gay marriage when the No side resorted to scare tactics.

Then why are both sides doing it here? Or are we immune to learning from the successes of others?

 

[NoNukes]

This fact was brought out in the Irish referendum on gay marriage when the No side resorted to scare tactics.

Then why are both sides doing it here? Or are we immune to learning from the successes of others?

I think many people mistakenly do not learn from the success of others, because they cannot see further than what they believe to be true.

 

[Judicial review]

2.) What does this mean for children with only a mother or only a father or neither?

I can tell you exactly what it meant for me. I had neither. I was born in 1987. According to my Grandmother I was the product of a one night stand between my father and biological mother, of whom I never knew. My father dumped me on my Grandmother four years later in 1991, and fled to Australia. I was 15 years of age before my father came back into my life in 2002, as a married man with a step daughter. I lived with him until 2007.

My father was not prepared to be a parent, and thusly our relationship with one another suffered because of it. He tried to insert his wife into the mother role, not understanding I saw my grandmother as my mother figure. It angered my Grandmother to no end, which spurred familial chaos, leading to frequent arguments between them. On top of that, he tried to assign parenting roles to my then step sister which infuriated my grandmother greatly. None of his actions went over well.

My father became became quite overbearing, forcing himself into the parenting role, when my Grandmother had raised me all of the time he was gone. What he didn't understand was that he couldn't simply supplant my grandmother as my primary parenting figure. Later on, he asked for my grandmother for child rearing advice but never took it, electing to elicit parenting advice from the internet, once again, leading to further resentment between he and I. All of that familial chaos eventually led to his wife walking out on him with another man. He left Athens not soon afterwards.

He made my life a living hell during high school, but yet I still managed to press on and graduate with honors. That's where my endeavors for a successful career essentially ended, no thanks to my father.

Finally, in the fall of 2006, I dropped out of college, in the spring of 2007 I lost my job. My father and I had made a standing agreement that if I maintained a job and attended college, he would offer me room and board for a nominal fee. Well for a time I did just that. But the aforementioned events took place. Upon my departure from the campus of Athens Technical College that day, I simply stated to my grandmother that the familial chaos my father was inciting was having a tremendous, negative effect on my studies. I couldn't go on. I was drained, and emotionally spent. On New Year's day 2007, I rung in the New Year by learning that I was being arbitrarily evicted. He never knew, nor was he aware that his chaotic influence had caused me to drop out of college.

I spent the last five months of employment fending for myself at my Grandmother's house, watching movies and playing Halo on the PC. She wasn't living there, though, but with my father at his home with a medical condition. I was completely cut off from my family, with occasional visits from my grandmother to bring me whatever she cooked for dinner for the rest of the family that night.

My father never assumed his proper role as a father figure, leaving my grandmother to be the only mother figure I ever knew. I never really lived in a stable family. I could have benefited from having an actual mother and a father, but my grandmother had to be the stand in. She did one hell of a job.

I'm here to testify for the emotional need for a mother and father to be there for the child. I was essentially abandoned my my parents, but by the grace of God he sent an angel to rescue me, my Grandmother, once again. I can tell you how alienated I felt watching all of the children at day camp leave with their moms and dads, and how many times I asked my grandmother where my biological parents were. I will disagree adamantly against those who say that having a mother and a father isn't essential for a child. You are dead wrong.

(Sorry for the autobiography, but this is the best way I knew how to address your question.)

I want to be real here and myself not JR, because I know when to be serious and real, and your story is amazing and no matter how you turned out for you to be here today makes you an amazing strong Man worthy of respect. Thank you for your story. I appreciate it.

Also anybody asking for my statistics google search marriage decline and you will see that the numbers vary, but make the exact same point.

 

[Judicial review]

This fact was brought out in the Irish referendum on gay marriage when the No side resorted to scare tactics.

Then why are both sides doing it here? Or are we immune to learning from the successes of others?

I think many people mistakenly do not learn from the success of others, because they cannot see further than what they believe to be true.

They don't know what is true because they haven't lived it. Example: The reason why I'm not a financial planner for avg people is because you can tell them exactly what they need to do and be exactly right, but they will do something completely different because they view it as there life and their money and so your hands are tied. Yes it's great money, because they come back to you in worse shape ready to finally listen, but as someone who genuinely cares and tries to prevent these types of screw ups, you can't control others. Period. This is why I'm a business owner and have sole control over my company. I know I wont fuck it up and it's in good hands. Little carried away, but you get the point.

 

[Judicial review]

Firstly, modern Americans have no idea of what marriage was originally. Even knowledgable Europeans would be challenged to cite what it originated as.

None are ready here for the full truth of it.

I will say it originated in the old world of which our memory has been obliterated, all of the books burned. As a clue, I will state it is a rite of passage, that existed with many others in human lives. Those rites gave meanings to life that we no longer know.

It is not just children that are deprived in this great taking of knowledge about ourselves and what life is about. It is the entire family, thusly the human community suffers too.

In that suffering we are divided and unable to assert ourselves in unity to challenge false authority and protect future generations, to keep a dream alive within unified families supporting the love they know and share past the lives of a mother and father.

The aged from this deprival, have no role in society except as a beloved burden, and the wisdom they naturally develop rarely has a meaningful outlet or use.

Marriage in its essence has lost the spiritual partnership in the community of parents that it once had, so the village can no longer raise the child alongside of the parents forming a new generation of associates that clearly benefitted from the knowledge and wisdom with at least two generations before it.

To get a little deeper and more spiritual here - You can say the roles for men and women in society are vastly different than biblical times let alone since the WW1 and WW2 eras and that alone has had a huge affect on the redefined role of marriage.

 

[Judicial review]

Men SHOULD be terrified of marriage: They are placing their entire future in the hands of another person who has been given unilateral legal control over their homes, their children and their finances.

This is not a biased point Jwoodie is making, but it's quite valid. The courts do favor the mother even though most women are employed than men are these days and more educated.

It seems 2 things are happening here,

1.) There's no reasons for men to get married due to not having a purpose.

2.) There's risks for men to get married

These two things equal a net negative. How do we get in back to even par?

How do they favor the woman? The reason why that used to be the case is because women did not work, stayed home and raised the kids, and therefore had no way to make a living for herself after a divorce. Nowadays, more and more men are getting custody of their children. Granted, the percentages are not large, but they are certainly growing. Personally, I've known several single dads. I used to babysit for a single dad of 3 kids.

So, given this information, how is the man taking any more risk than the woman when entering into a marriage? And how do you justify your matter-of-fact claim that the "courts favor the mother"?

2.0 million: Number of single fathers in 2013; 17 percent of custodial single parents were men.

• 9 percent were raising three or more children younger than 18.
• About 44 percent were divorced, 33 percent were never married, 19 percent were separated, and 4.2 percent were widowed.

Another issue with your OP is that men are no longer more educated . . . but women make less generally speaking.

Women More Likely to Graduate College but Still Earn Less Than Men - US News

They don't favor the woman in this critical way. Women get married at a younger age than men on avg statistics that means they see marriage as more important than the men. Men simply don't want to get married because they want to be able to support a family before proposing and sealing the deal. That's why men naturally always got married later. However, look at the bold points I made and if you take away the incentives for men to get married you naturally make it harder for the women to get what she wants. A ring or a marriage.

Btw.. Women get the children becuase the courts are stuck in old times and need a huge readjustment into current times, because the men still pay the child support in a huge biased way when women are now more educated and yes working. Having unequal pay doesn't matter, mothers aren't stay at home moms anymore. Thank the femenist movement in the 70's for that. By the way feminism has good parts like woman rights, but also bad parts because instead of making equal rights for both men and women it is actually stripping men of basic rights like fair child support and to see their kids.

 

[ChrisL]

Men SHOULD be terrified of marriage: They are placing their entire future in the hands of another person who has been given unilateral legal control over their homes, their children and their finances.

This is not a biased point Jwoodie is making, but it's quite valid. The courts do favor the mother even though most women are employed than men are these days and more educated.

It seems 2 things are happening here,

1.) There's no reasons for men to get married due to not having a purpose.

2.) There's risks for men to get married

These two things equal a net negative. How do we get in back to even par?

How do they favor the woman? The reason why that used to be the case is because women did not work, stayed home and raised the kids, and therefore had no way to make a living for herself after a divorce. Nowadays, more and more men are getting custody of their children. Granted, the percentages are not large, but they are certainly growing. Personally, I've known several single dads. I used to babysit for a single dad of 3 kids.

So, given this information, how is the man taking any more risk than the woman when entering into a marriage? And how do you justify your matter-of-fact claim that the "courts favor the mother"?

2.0 million: Number of single fathers in 2013; 17 percent of custodial single parents were men.

• 9 percent were raising three or more children younger than 18.
• About 44 percent were divorced, 33 percent were never married, 19 percent were separated, and 4.2 percent were widowed.

Another issue with your OP is that men are no longer more educated . . . but women make less generally speaking.

Women More Likely to Graduate College but Still Earn Less Than Men - US News

They don't favor the woman in this critical way. Women get married at a younger age than men on avg statistics that means they see marriage as more important than the men. Men simply don't want to get married because they want to be able to support a family before proposing and sealing the deal. That's why men naturally always got married later. However, look at the bold points I made and if you take away the incentives for men to get married you naturally make it harder for the women to get what she wants. A ring or a marriage.

Btw.. Women get the children becuase the courts are stuck in old times and need a huge readjustment into current times, because the men still pay the child support in a huge biased way when women are now more educated and yes working. Having unequal pay doesn't matter, mothers aren't stay at home moms anymore. Thank the femenist movement in the 70's for that. By the way feminism has good parts like woman rights, but also bad parts because instead of making equal rights for both men and women it is actually stripping men of basic rights like fair child support and to see their kids.

The point I'm trying to make is that things are more equal now than they have ever been, and things seem to be progressing more and more in that direction. More and more often, dads are awarded custody. If the woman worked and the dad stayed home with the kids for some time, the judge will award custody to the dad in a lot of instances and make mom pay child support.

The risks are the same for the woman who gets involved in a marriage. And years ago, I would think it was the woman who took more of a risk. After all, the man had the job and all the options. Women had very FEW options and still married.

And no, a judge would not disallow the father to be a part of the child's (children's) life unless there was something else going on. If the court rules that the father gets visitation rights or partial custody and the woman doesn't cooperate, then the man has the right to take her to court and to fight for his rights.

 

[initforme]

The trend I see is that more young married couples are choosing not to have children. With the advent of women infused into the full time work force (not saying that is a bad thing), they know

1). It takes two incomes to make it... if you are middle or lower class and want some material wealth. Scraping by and having no money for entertainment and things you want isn't all that rewarding. Plus working full time and rasing kids isn't easy. Its easier not to have kids.
2). Raising children takes both time, effort, and energy. After working at least 40 hours per week, who has any of that left?

I would like to see that change as children bring more to ones life than any material possession. That being said, as long as wages are declining our flattening, and people are working longer and harder, the trend will continue and only increase. This is the case where we live, perhaps not all over. I remember growing up... every house had at least 2,3,4 or more kids. In our neighborhood we have several young couples who are doing quite well, have ALOT of nice things, and have chosen not to have kids. Very nice people, very hard working, That's a big trend I see.

 

[Judicial review]

Men SHOULD be terrified of marriage: They are placing their entire future in the hands of another person who has been given unilateral legal control over their homes, their children and their finances.

This is not a biased point Jwoodie is making, but it's quite valid. The courts do favor the mother even though most women are employed than men are these days and more educated.

It seems 2 things are happening here,

1.) There's no reasons for men to get married due to not having a purpose.

2.) There's risks for men to get married

These two things equal a net negative. How do we get in back to even par?

How do they favor the woman? The reason why that used to be the case is because women did not work, stayed home and raised the kids, and therefore had no way to make a living for herself after a divorce. Nowadays, more and more men are getting custody of their children. Granted, the percentages are not large, but they are certainly growing. Personally, I've known several single dads. I used to babysit for a single dad of 3 kids.

So, given this information, how is the man taking any more risk than the woman when entering into a marriage? And how do you justify your matter-of-fact claim that the "courts favor the mother"?

2.0 million: Number of single fathers in 2013; 17 percent of custodial single parents were men.

• 9 percent were raising three or more children younger than 18.
• About 44 percent were divorced, 33 percent were never married, 19 percent were separated, and 4.2 percent were widowed.

Another issue with your OP is that men are no longer more educated . . . but women make less generally speaking.

Women More Likely to Graduate College but Still Earn Less Than Men - US News

They don't favor the woman in this critical way. Women get married at a younger age than men on avg statistics that means they see marriage as more important than the men. Men simply don't want to get married because they want to be able to support a family before proposing and sealing the deal. That's why men naturally always got married later. However, look at the bold points I made and if you take away the incentives for men to get married you naturally make it harder for the women to get what she wants. A ring or a marriage.

Btw.. Women get the children becuase the courts are stuck in old times and need a huge readjustment into current times, because the men still pay the child support in a huge biased way when women are now more educated and yes working. Having unequal pay doesn't matter, mothers aren't stay at home moms anymore. Thank the femenist movement in the 70's for that. By the way feminism has good parts like woman rights, but also bad parts because instead of making equal rights for both men and women it is actually stripping men of basic rights like fair child support and to see their kids.

The point I'm trying to make is that things are more equal now than they have ever been, and things seem to be progressing more and more in that direction. More and more often, dads are awarded custody. If the woman worked and the dad stayed home with the kids for some time, the judge will award custody to the dad in a lot of instances and make mom pay child support.

The risks are the same for the woman who gets involved in a marriage. And years ago, I would think it was the woman who took more of a risk. After all, the man had the job and all the options. Women had very FEW options and still married.

And no, a judge would not disallow the father to be a part of the child's (children's) life unless there was something else going on. If the court rules that the father gets visitation rights or partial custody and the woman doesn't cooperate, then the man has the right to take her to court and to fight for his rights.

You haven't seen many custody battles up close have you? Look women hid their income from the courts and blow the money all the time and don't spend it on their kids except what they think they need and that's NOT how it's supposed to work. Also, without question the courts favor the mother right now. Statistics prove that 100%. That's why ONLY 19% of Dads are single parents and not way higher compared to women who without question raise children on their own way higher of a percentage. You know that so let's not play games. Yes, there's cases where the father has issues, but a judge will tend to over look the womans issues more than the mans, because let's face it it's much easier for a judge to say open your pocket book than it is to say to a man open your schedule while he's working and not a stay at home Mom.

See my point now? NOW the Woman is working and just hires daycare, but the courts aren't waking up to reality yet and are lagging behind. They will catch up over time, but you can't say that it's the case RIGHT NOW.

 

[ChrisL]

Men SHOULD be terrified of marriage: They are placing their entire future in the hands of another person who has been given unilateral legal control over their homes, their children and their finances.

This is not a biased point Jwoodie is making, but it's quite valid. The courts do favor the mother even though most women are employed than men are these days and more educated.

It seems 2 things are happening here,

1.) There's no reasons for men to get married due to not having a purpose.

2.) There's risks for men to get married

These two things equal a net negative. How do we get in back to even par?

How do they favor the woman? The reason why that used to be the case is because women did not work, stayed home and raised the kids, and therefore had no way to make a living for herself after a divorce. Nowadays, more and more men are getting custody of their children. Granted, the percentages are not large, but they are certainly growing. Personally, I've known several single dads. I used to babysit for a single dad of 3 kids.

So, given this information, how is the man taking any more risk than the woman when entering into a marriage? And how do you justify your matter-of-fact claim that the "courts favor the mother"?

2.0 million: Number of single fathers in 2013; 17 percent of custodial single parents were men.

• 9 percent were raising three or more children younger than 18.
• About 44 percent were divorced, 33 percent were never married, 19 percent were separated, and 4.2 percent were widowed.

Another issue with your OP is that men are no longer more educated . . . but women make less generally speaking.

Women More Likely to Graduate College but Still Earn Less Than Men - US News

They don't favor the woman in this critical way. Women get married at a younger age than men on avg statistics that means they see marriage as more important than the men. Men simply don't want to get married because they want to be able to support a family before proposing and sealing the deal. That's why men naturally always got married later. However, look at the bold points I made and if you take away the incentives for men to get married you naturally make it harder for the women to get what she wants. A ring or a marriage.

Btw.. Women get the children becuase the courts are stuck in old times and need a huge readjustment into current times, because the men still pay the child support in a huge biased way when women are now more educated and yes working. Having unequal pay doesn't matter, mothers aren't stay at home moms anymore. Thank the femenist movement in the 70's for that. By the way feminism has good parts like woman rights, but also bad parts because instead of making equal rights for both men and women it is actually stripping men of basic rights like fair child support and to see their kids.

The point I'm trying to make is that things are more equal now than they have ever been, and things seem to be progressing more and more in that direction. More and more often, dads are awarded custody. If the woman worked and the dad stayed home with the kids for some time, the judge will award custody to the dad in a lot of instances and make mom pay child support.

The risks are the same for the woman who gets involved in a marriage. And years ago, I would think it was the woman who took more of a risk. After all, the man had the job and all the options. Women had very FEW options and still married.

And no, a judge would not disallow the father to be a part of the child's (children's) life unless there was something else going on. If the court rules that the father gets visitation rights or partial custody and the woman doesn't cooperate, then the man has the right to take her to court and to fight for his rights.

You haven't seen many custody battles up close have you? Look women hid their income from the courts and blow the money all the time and don't spend it on their kids except what they think they need and that's NOT how it's supposed to work. Also, without question the courts favor the mother right now. Statistics prove that 100%. That's why ONLY 19% of Dads are single parents and not way higher compared to women who without question raise children on their own way higher of a percentage. You know that so let's not play games. Yes, there's cases where the father has issues, but a judge will tend to over look the womans issues more than the mans, because let's face it it's much easier for a judge to say open your pocket book than it is to say to a man open your schedule while he's working and not a stay at home Mom.

See my point now? NOW the Woman is working and just hires daycare, but the courts aren't waking up to reality yet and are lagging behind. They will catch up over time, but you can't say that it's the case RIGHT NOW.

And you are missing MY Point which is that it isn't always like you say. What experience have YOU had with this? Do you even have any children? Ever been married?

 

[Judicial review]

The trend I see is that more young married couples are choosing not to have children. With the advent of women infused into the full time work force (not saying that is a bad thing), they know

1). It takes two incomes to make it... if you are middle or lower class and want some material wealth. Scraping by and having no money for entertainment and things you want isn't all that rewarding. Plus working full time and rasing kids isn't easy. Its easier not to have kids.
2). Raising children takes both time, effort, and energy. After working at least 40 hours per week, who has any of that left?

I would like to see that change as children bring more to ones life than any material possession. That being said, as long as wages are declining our flattening, and people are working longer and harder, the trend will continue and only increase. This is the case where we live, perhaps not all over. I remember growing up... every house had at least 2,3,4 or more kids. In our neighborhood we have several young couples who are doing quite well, have ALOT of nice things, and have chosen not to have kids. Very nice people, very hard working, That's a big trend I see.

Economy's do play a major role, but we are talking statistics from 1960. We haven't been in a recession for 55 years. The recession has just made it worse quicker but the question is will it recede to norms with still a decline? Or will the expedition not recede but still decline?

 

[Judicial review]

This is not a biased point Jwoodie is making, but it's quite valid. The courts do favor the mother even though most women are employed than men are these days and more educated.

It seems 2 things are happening here,

1.) There's no reasons for men to get married due to not having a purpose.

2.) There's risks for men to get married

These two things equal a net negative. How do we get in back to even par?

How do they favor the woman? The reason why that used to be the case is because women did not work, stayed home and raised the kids, and therefore had no way to make a living for herself after a divorce. Nowadays, more and more men are getting custody of their children. Granted, the percentages are not large, but they are certainly growing. Personally, I've known several single dads. I used to babysit for a single dad of 3 kids.

So, given this information, how is the man taking any more risk than the woman when entering into a marriage? And how do you justify your matter-of-fact claim that the "courts favor the mother"?

2.0 million: Number of single fathers in 2013; 17 percent of custodial single parents were men.

• 9 percent were raising three or more children younger than 18.
• About 44 percent were divorced, 33 percent were never married, 19 percent were separated, and 4.2 percent were widowed.

Another issue with your OP is that men are no longer more educated . . . but women make less generally speaking.

Women More Likely to Graduate College but Still Earn Less Than Men - US News

They don't favor the woman in this critical way. Women get married at a younger age than men on avg statistics that means they see marriage as more important than the men. Men simply don't want to get married because they want to be able to support a family before proposing and sealing the deal. That's why men naturally always got married later. However, look at the bold points I made and if you take away the incentives for men to get married you naturally make it harder for the women to get what she wants. A ring or a marriage.

Btw.. Women get the children becuase the courts are stuck in old times and need a huge readjustment into current times, because the men still pay the child support in a huge biased way when women are now more educated and yes working. Having unequal pay doesn't matter, mothers aren't stay at home moms anymore. Thank the femenist movement in the 70's for that. By the way feminism has good parts like woman rights, but also bad parts because instead of making equal rights for both men and women it is actually stripping men of basic rights like fair child support and to see their kids.

The point I'm trying to make is that things are more equal now than they have ever been, and things seem to be progressing more and more in that direction. More and more often, dads are awarded custody. If the woman worked and the dad stayed home with the kids for some time, the judge will award custody to the dad in a lot of instances and make mom pay child support.

The risks are the same for the woman who gets involved in a marriage. And years ago, I would think it was the woman who took more of a risk. After all, the man had the job and all the options. Women had very FEW options and still married.

And no, a judge would not disallow the father to be a part of the child's (children's) life unless there was something else going on. If the court rules that the father gets visitation rights or partial custody and the woman doesn't cooperate, then the man has the right to take her to court and to fight for his rights.

You haven't seen many custody battles up close have you? Look women hid their income from the courts and blow the money all the time and don't spend it on their kids except what they think they need and that's NOT how it's supposed to work. Also, without question the courts favor the mother right now. Statistics prove that 100%. That's why ONLY 19% of Dads are single parents and not way higher compared to women who without question raise children on their own way higher of a percentage. You know that so let's not play games. Yes, there's cases where the father has issues, but a judge will tend to over look the womans issues more than the mans, because let's face it it's much easier for a judge to say open your pocket book than it is to say to a man open your schedule while he's working and not a stay at home Mom.

See my point now? NOW the Woman is working and just hires daycare, but the courts aren't waking up to reality yet and are lagging behind. They will catch up over time, but you can't say that it's the case RIGHT NOW.

And you are missing MY Point which is that it isn't always like you say. What experience have YOU had with this? Do you even have any children? Ever been married?

No go look it up. Goggle it. You"ll find statistics that show this from majority of authors and some women authors. My aunt married a man who had 2 children and his Ex was totally hiding info from the courts and not using all the money for necessities like clothes or whatver and he only got to see them on the weekends even though he wanted more time but he couldn't afford an attorney to pursue this and of course the ex had all the money...

Plus, Dr Phil had a show on this about 1 week ago with 2 attorney's Gloria that liberal feminist bitch and a very fair attorney and advocate for men pursuing their legal rights, and the conclusion - Gloria was full of shit like usual had no proof spouting talking points while the male advocate had everything.

You aren't going to win on this issue ChrisL I'd drop it or do basic research first.

 

[ChrisL]

How do they favor the woman? The reason why that used to be the case is because women did not work, stayed home and raised the kids, and therefore had no way to make a living for herself after a divorce. Nowadays, more and more men are getting custody of their children. Granted, the percentages are not large, but they are certainly growing. Personally, I've known several single dads. I used to babysit for a single dad of 3 kids.

So, given this information, how is the man taking any more risk than the woman when entering into a marriage? And how do you justify your matter-of-fact claim that the "courts favor the mother"?

2.0 million: Number of single fathers in 2013; 17 percent of custodial single parents were men.

• 9 percent were raising three or more children younger than 18.
• About 44 percent were divorced, 33 percent were never married, 19 percent were separated, and 4.2 percent were widowed.

Another issue with your OP is that men are no longer more educated . . . but women make less generally speaking.

Women More Likely to Graduate College but Still Earn Less Than Men - US News

They don't favor the woman in this critical way. Women get married at a younger age than men on avg statistics that means they see marriage as more important than the men. Men simply don't want to get married because they want to be able to support a family before proposing and sealing the deal. That's why men naturally always got married later. However, look at the bold points I made and if you take away the incentives for men to get married you naturally make it harder for the women to get what she wants. A ring or a marriage.

Btw.. Women get the children becuase the courts are stuck in old times and need a huge readjustment into current times, because the men still pay the child support in a huge biased way when women are now more educated and yes working. Having unequal pay doesn't matter, mothers aren't stay at home moms anymore. Thank the femenist movement in the 70's for that. By the way feminism has good parts like woman rights, but also bad parts because instead of making equal rights for both men and women it is actually stripping men of basic rights like fair child support and to see their kids.

The point I'm trying to make is that things are more equal now than they have ever been, and things seem to be progressing more and more in that direction. More and more often, dads are awarded custody. If the woman worked and the dad stayed home with the kids for some time, the judge will award custody to the dad in a lot of instances and make mom pay child support.

The risks are the same for the woman who gets involved in a marriage. And years ago, I would think it was the woman who took more of a risk. After all, the man had the job and all the options. Women had very FEW options and still married.

And no, a judge would not disallow the father to be a part of the child's (children's) life unless there was something else going on. If the court rules that the father gets visitation rights or partial custody and the woman doesn't cooperate, then the man has the right to take her to court and to fight for his rights.

You haven't seen many custody battles up close have you? Look women hid their income from the courts and blow the money all the time and don't spend it on their kids except what they think they need and that's NOT how it's supposed to work. Also, without question the courts favor the mother right now. Statistics prove that 100%. That's why ONLY 19% of Dads are single parents and not way higher compared to women who without question raise children on their own way higher of a percentage. You know that so let's not play games. Yes, there's cases where the father has issues, but a judge will tend to over look the womans issues more than the mans, because let's face it it's much easier for a judge to say open your pocket book than it is to say to a man open your schedule while he's working and not a stay at home Mom.

See my point now? NOW the Woman is working and just hires daycare, but the courts aren't waking up to reality yet and are lagging behind. They will catch up over time, but you can't say that it's the case RIGHT NOW.

And you are missing MY Point which is that it isn't always like you say. What experience have YOU had with this? Do you even have any children? Ever been married?

No go look it up. Goggle it. You"ll find statistics that show this from majority of authors and some women authors. My aunt married a man who had 2 children and his Ex was totally hiding info from the courts and not using all the money for necessities like clothes or whatver and he only got to see them on the weekends even though he wanted more time but he couldn't afford an attorney to pursue this and of course the ex had all the money...

Plus, Dr Phil had a show on this about 1 week ago with 2 attorney's Gloria that liberal feminist bitch and a very fair attorney and advocate for men pursuing their legal rights, and the conclusion - Gloria was full of shit like usual had no proof spouting talking points while the male advocate had everything.

You aren't going to win on this issue ChrisL I'd drop it or do basic research first.

Okay, so men and women do this. So what's your point? I have plenty of experience in this considering that my parents were divorced.

You are trying to make it sound as if all the risk-taking is on the side of the man in the relationship, and that is just not the case, especially not nowadays.

 

[Judicial review]

They don't favor the woman in this critical way. Women get married at a younger age than men on avg statistics that means they see marriage as more important than the men. Men simply don't want to get married because they want to be able to support a family before proposing and sealing the deal. That's why men naturally always got married later. However, look at the bold points I made and if you take away the incentives for men to get married you naturally make it harder for the women to get what she wants. A ring or a marriage.

Btw.. Women get the children becuase the courts are stuck in old times and need a huge readjustment into current times, because the men still pay the child support in a huge biased way when women are now more educated and yes working. Having unequal pay doesn't matter, mothers aren't stay at home moms anymore. Thank the femenist movement in the 70's for that. By the way feminism has good parts like woman rights, but also bad parts because instead of making equal rights for both men and women it is actually stripping men of basic rights like fair child support and to see their kids.

The point I'm trying to make is that things are more equal now than they have ever been, and things seem to be progressing more and more in that direction. More and more often, dads are awarded custody. If the woman worked and the dad stayed home with the kids for some time, the judge will award custody to the dad in a lot of instances and make mom pay child support.

The risks are the same for the woman who gets involved in a marriage. And years ago, I would think it was the woman who took more of a risk. After all, the man had the job and all the options. Women had very FEW options and still married.

And no, a judge would not disallow the father to be a part of the child's (children's) life unless there was something else going on. If the court rules that the father gets visitation rights or partial custody and the woman doesn't cooperate, then the man has the right to take her to court and to fight for his rights.

You haven't seen many custody battles up close have you? Look women hid their income from the courts and blow the money all the time and don't spend it on their kids except what they think they need and that's NOT how it's supposed to work. Also, without question the courts favor the mother right now. Statistics prove that 100%. That's why ONLY 19% of Dads are single parents and not way higher compared to women who without question raise children on their own way higher of a percentage. You know that so let's not play games. Yes, there's cases where the father has issues, but a judge will tend to over look the womans issues more than the mans, because let's face it it's much easier for a judge to say open your pocket book than it is to say to a man open your schedule while he's working and not a stay at home Mom.

See my point now? NOW the Woman is working and just hires daycare, but the courts aren't waking up to reality yet and are lagging behind. They will catch up over time, but you can't say that it's the case RIGHT NOW.

And you are missing MY Point which is that it isn't always like you say. What experience have YOU had with this? Do you even have any children? Ever been married?

No go look it up. Goggle it. You"ll find statistics that show this from majority of authors and some women authors. My aunt married a man who had 2 children and his Ex was totally hiding info from the courts and not using all the money for necessities like clothes or whatver and he only got to see them on the weekends even though he wanted more time but he couldn't afford an attorney to pursue this and of course the ex had all the money...

Plus, Dr Phil had a show on this about 1 week ago with 2 attorney's Gloria that liberal feminist bitch and a very fair attorney and advocate for men pursuing their legal rights, and the conclusion - Gloria was full of shit like usual had no proof spouting talking points while the male advocate had everything.

You aren't going to win on this issue ChrisL I'd drop it or do basic research first.

Okay, so men and women do this. So what's your point? I have plenty of experience in this considering that my parents were divorced.

You are trying to make it sound as if all the risk-taking is on the side of the man in the relationship, and that is just not the case, especially not nowadays.

No. I never said ALL. I said the majority. There's a huge difference ChrisL. It's about the incentives outweighing the risk. That's not the case for men. So, Like T said it's more about physical relationships now instead of partnerships (marriage) and boy do the statistics EVER prove that. he divorce rate is through the roof and out of wed lock births are way up. The FAMILY is without question fractured and it's turning or already an epidemic.

 

[ChrisL]

The point I'm trying to make is that things are more equal now than they have ever been, and things seem to be progressing more and more in that direction. More and more often, dads are awarded custody. If the woman worked and the dad stayed home with the kids for some time, the judge will award custody to the dad in a lot of instances and make mom pay child support.

The risks are the same for the woman who gets involved in a marriage. And years ago, I would think it was the woman who took more of a risk. After all, the man had the job and all the options. Women had very FEW options and still married.

And no, a judge would not disallow the father to be a part of the child's (children's) life unless there was something else going on. If the court rules that the father gets visitation rights or partial custody and the woman doesn't cooperate, then the man has the right to take her to court and to fight for his rights.

You haven't seen many custody battles up close have you? Look women hid their income from the courts and blow the money all the time and don't spend it on their kids except what they think they need and that's NOT how it's supposed to work. Also, without question the courts favor the mother right now. Statistics prove that 100%. That's why ONLY 19% of Dads are single parents and not way higher compared to women who without question raise children on their own way higher of a percentage. You know that so let's not play games. Yes, there's cases where the father has issues, but a judge will tend to over look the womans issues more than the mans, because let's face it it's much easier for a judge to say open your pocket book than it is to say to a man open your schedule while he's working and not a stay at home Mom.

See my point now? NOW the Woman is working and just hires daycare, but the courts aren't waking up to reality yet and are lagging behind. They will catch up over time, but you can't say that it's the case RIGHT NOW.

And you are missing MY Point which is that it isn't always like you say. What experience have YOU had with this? Do you even have any children? Ever been married?

No go look it up. Goggle it. You"ll find statistics that show this from majority of authors and some women authors. My aunt married a man who had 2 children and his Ex was totally hiding info from the courts and not using all the money for necessities like clothes or whatver and he only got to see them on the weekends even though he wanted more time but he couldn't afford an attorney to pursue this and of course the ex had all the money...

Plus, Dr Phil had a show on this about 1 week ago with 2 attorney's Gloria that liberal feminist bitch and a very fair attorney and advocate for men pursuing their legal rights, and the conclusion - Gloria was full of shit like usual had no proof spouting talking points while the male advocate had everything.

You aren't going to win on this issue ChrisL I'd drop it or do basic research first.

Okay, so men and women do this. So what's your point? I have plenty of experience in this considering that my parents were divorced.

You are trying to make it sound as if all the risk-taking is on the side of the man in the relationship, and that is just not the case, especially not nowadays.

No. I never said ALL. I said the majority. There's a huge difference ChrisL. It's about the incentives outweighing the risk. That's not the case for men. So, Like T said it's more about physical relationships now instead of partnerships (marriage) and boy do the statistics EVER prove that. he divorce rate is through the roof and out of wed lock births are way up. The FAMILY is without question fractured and it's turning or already an epidemic.

Well, my theory on the high divorce rates is that people jump into marriages (because others make it seem as if it is some kind of IMPERATIVE) before they really get to know a person. I am all for shacking up first before marrying a person. You can never REALLY know a person until you have lived with that person, with that person's flaws and annoying quirks and habits. If you marry a person you don't really know, you could end up hating that person eventually.

 

[Judicial review]

You haven't seen many custody battles up close have you? Look women hid their income from the courts and blow the money all the time and don't spend it on their kids except what they think they need and that's NOT how it's supposed to work. Also, without question the courts favor the mother right now. Statistics prove that 100%. That's why ONLY 19% of Dads are single parents and not way higher compared to women who without question raise children on their own way higher of a percentage. You know that so let's not play games. Yes, there's cases where the father has issues, but a judge will tend to over look the womans issues more than the mans, because let's face it it's much easier for a judge to say open your pocket book than it is to say to a man open your schedule while he's working and not a stay at home Mom.

See my point now? NOW the Woman is working and just hires daycare, but the courts aren't waking up to reality yet and are lagging behind. They will catch up over time, but you can't say that it's the case RIGHT NOW.

And you are missing MY Point which is that it isn't always like you say. What experience have YOU had with this? Do you even have any children? Ever been married?

No go look it up. Goggle it. You"ll find statistics that show this from majority of authors and some women authors. My aunt married a man who had 2 children and his Ex was totally hiding info from the courts and not using all the money for necessities like clothes or whatver and he only got to see them on the weekends even though he wanted more time but he couldn't afford an attorney to pursue this and of course the ex had all the money...

Plus, Dr Phil had a show on this about 1 week ago with 2 attorney's Gloria that liberal feminist bitch and a very fair attorney and advocate for men pursuing their legal rights, and the conclusion - Gloria was full of shit like usual had no proof spouting talking points while the male advocate had everything.

You aren't going to win on this issue ChrisL I'd drop it or do basic research first.

Okay, so men and women do this. So what's your point? I have plenty of experience in this considering that my parents were divorced.

You are trying to make it sound as if all the risk-taking is on the side of the man in the relationship, and that is just not the case, especially not nowadays.

No. I never said ALL. I said the majority. There's a huge difference ChrisL. It's about the incentives outweighing the risk. That's not the case for men. So, Like T said it's more about physical relationships now instead of partnerships (marriage) and boy do the statistics EVER prove that. he divorce rate is through the roof and out of wed lock births are way up. The FAMILY is without question fractured and it's turning or already an epidemic.

Well, my theory on the high divorce rates is that people jump into marriages (because others make it seem as if it is some kind of IMPERATIVE) before they really get to know a person. I am all for shacking up first before marrying a person. You can never REALLY know a person until you have lived with that person, with that person's flaws and annoying quirks and habits. If you marry a person you don't really know, you could end up hating that person eventually.

As a woman is a month too soon to ahve the person you are dating move in with you rent free if you like her a lot and she likes you a lot, but she's in bad financial shape?

 

[ChrisL]

And you are missing MY Point which is that it isn't always like you say. What experience have YOU had with this? Do you even have any children? Ever been married?

No go look it up. Goggle it. You"ll find statistics that show this from majority of authors and some women authors. My aunt married a man who had 2 children and his Ex was totally hiding info from the courts and not using all the money for necessities like clothes or whatver and he only got to see them on the weekends even though he wanted more time but he couldn't afford an attorney to pursue this and of course the ex had all the money...

Plus, Dr Phil had a show on this about 1 week ago with 2 attorney's Gloria that liberal feminist bitch and a very fair attorney and advocate for men pursuing their legal rights, and the conclusion - Gloria was full of shit like usual had no proof spouting talking points while the male advocate had everything.

You aren't going to win on this issue ChrisL I'd drop it or do basic research first.

Okay, so men and women do this. So what's your point? I have plenty of experience in this considering that my parents were divorced.

You are trying to make it sound as if all the risk-taking is on the side of the man in the relationship, and that is just not the case, especially not nowadays.

No. I never said ALL. I said the majority. There's a huge difference ChrisL. It's about the incentives outweighing the risk. That's not the case for men. So, Like T said it's more about physical relationships now instead of partnerships (marriage) and boy do the statistics EVER prove that. he divorce rate is through the roof and out of wed lock births are way up. The FAMILY is without question fractured and it's turning or already an epidemic.

Well, my theory on the high divorce rates is that people jump into marriages (because others make it seem as if it is some kind of IMPERATIVE) before they really get to know a person. I am all for shacking up first before marrying a person. You can never REALLY know a person until you have lived with that person, with that person's flaws and annoying quirks and habits. If you marry a person you don't really know, you could end up hating that person eventually.

As a woman is a month too soon to ahve the person you are dating move in with you rent free if you like her a lot and she likes you a lot, but she's in bad financial shape?

Yes!! A month is too soon! Also, you should live as roommates, sharing the responsibilities and bills. You don't want a person who is a child still. These are the things you look out for!