The majority of Americans want to cut immigration from 1 million a year to 750,000 or less!

[Camp]

Agriculture workers are not available in the regions or areas they are needed without adding the high cost of housing and transportation to the labor cost.

Upon what do you base that statement ?

Traveling and working in agriculture regions. Those areas are nor generally located in the densely populated areas where labor is readily available.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Don't kid yerself too much...If that were true we wouldn't had to endure forty years of illegal low skilled labor flooding the markets..

The only reason it flooded our markets is because the people responsible for preventing that flood were criminally derelict. Employers needing low-skilled workers would pay enough for people to live on those wages, and we wouldn't need to illegally import labor. There would be no fucking need for a motherfucking minimum wage. Employers would pay enough or get no labor.

Our current condition has been caused by all sides refusing to accept job market realities for 80 years.

Personally, I am glad women entered the workforce in large numbers after WWII, but the effects of that steady increase in available labor is a textbook example of how this shit works.

Sound immigration policy should be based on specific need after jobs go unfilled for lack of supply, not based on the demands for cheaper labor.

Tell me none of you would mop floors for $150,000 a year. I would work wood, building furniture all day, or did some other job where I actually get to make something tangible for that kind of pay. I could have avoided 21 years of formal education, and all the debt that comes with it, had that been available to me. Fuck it.

 

[protectionist]

Traveling and working in agriculture regions. Those areas are nor generally located in the densely populated areas where labor is readily available.

Well Mexican labor isn't "readily available" there either. It's in Mexico, right ? If they can haul people all the way from Mexico for these jobs, why not from a few hundred miles away, in the US ?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Traveling and working in agriculture regions. Those areas are nor generally located in the densely populated areas where labor is readily available

That is one VERY tiny area of the economy that does not require 11 million illegals to satisfy, and certainly is a small portion of agriculture, given that most harvest and production is automated. Why do we need 11 million illegal Mexicans for that?

 

[protectionist]

5 people chasing one job gives that employer power to reduce wages.

"Don't like my wage offer? Take it or fuck off. I'll hire one of the other four desperate people. They will take the job if you don't."

It is harsh but absolutely fair for an employer to pay what people are willing to accept. It is not immoral or unethical. It is the market. Employers MUST adjust to the market because with such a shitty job market, they will be forced to lower prices or lose business.

Even if it is only "jobs Americans don't want" that reality has a HUGE ripple-effect through the entire economy. Lower paying jobs means less money for goods and services, which affects the providers of those goods and services, reducing the amount of money available to them, affecting providers of other goods and services, and so on. Illegal immigration makes it much worse.

You really think we want to stop illegal immigration because we are racists? We want to reduce LEGAL immigration because we are "white nationalists" looking to establish the Aryan Race? We're all that shallow? We're all just like Steve_McGarrett?

Fewer people seeking more jobs causes wages to increase. Supply and Demand. Employers being forced to beat prospective employees over the head with bags of money to get them to accept the job is a great position to be in as a prospective employee.

I hope this makes sense.

It matches up with the # 2 item in my Harms of Immigration list in Post # 17.

 

[OldLady]

CA — 57% of ALL voters
WI — 57% of ALL voters
CO — 56% of ALL voters
VA — 57% of ALL voters
OH — 65% of ALL voters
PA — 58% of ALL voters
TN — 64% of ALL voters

Calif. & Wis. voters nearly identical in wanting immigration reduced

Why?

This is a tough one huh?
Well, if you had to guess...why do you think?

Dunno. What's wrong with immigration?
Maine wants 'em. Not enough young workers. But no one is stupid enough to come here.

The land of black snow..

Only in March.

 

[OldLady]

Why?

5 people chasing one job gives that employer power to reduce wages.

"Don't like my wage offer? Take it or fuck off. I'll hire one of the other four desperate people. They will take the job if you don't."

It is harsh but absolutely fair for an employer to pay what people are willing to accept. It is not immoral or unethical. It is the market. Employers MUST adjust to the market because with such a shitty job market, they will be forced to lower prices or lose business.

Even if it is only "jobs Americans don't want" that reality has a HUGE ripple-effect through the entire economy. Lower paying jobs means less money for goods and services, which affects the providers of those goods and services, reducing the amount of money available to them, affecting providers of other goods and services, and so on. Illegal immigration makes it much worse.

You really think we want to stop illegal immigration because we are racists? We want to reduce LEGAL immigration because we are "white nationalists" looking to establish the Aryan Race? We're all that shallow? We're all just like Steve_McGarrett?

Fewer people seeking more jobs causes wages to increase. Supply and Demand. Employers being forced to beat prospective employees over the head with bags of money to get them to accept the job is a great position to be in as a prospective employee.

I hope this makes sense.

Thank you. I was confused by the OP's detailed response because it was conflating immigrants with illegal immigrants, and not all of his facts are correct. For instance, I teach two immigrants from Ireland (legal immigrants) and they are eligible for NO welfare benefits, not even student loans.

 

[protectionist]

The only reason it flooded our markets is because the people responsible for preventing that flood were criminally derelict. Employers needing low-skilled workers would pay enough for people to live on those wages, and we wouldn't need to illegally import labor. There would be no fucking need for a motherfucking minimum wage. Employers would pay enough or get no labor.

Our current condition has been caused by all sides refusing to accept job market realities for 80 years.

Personally, I am glad women entered the workforce in large numbers after WWII, but the effects of that steady increase in available labor is a textbook example of how this shit works.

Sound immigration policy should be based on specific need after jobs go unfilled for lack of supply, not based on the demands for cheaper labor.

Tell me none of you would mop floors for $150,000 a year. I would work wood, building furniture all day, or did some other job where I actually get to make something tangible for that kind of pay. I could have avoided 21 years of formal education, and all the debt that comes with it, had that been available to me. Fuck it.

Bring in top scientists, engineers, talented musicians, and others who heighten our well-being, not millions of unskilled job stealers, welfare suckers, and economy (remittances) raiders.

Also, preferable would be entrepreneurs bringing in large amounts of capital, to open businesses (that we need), and create jobs (for AMERICANS)

 

[Camp]

Traveling and working in agriculture regions. Those areas are nor generally located in the densely populated areas where labor is readily available.

Well Mexican labor isn't "readily available" there either. It's in Mexico, right ? If they can haul people all the way from Mexico for these jobs, why not from a few hundred miles away, in the US ?

You have no idea or clue about the topic you are trying to talk about. Even your questions show a complete lack of knowledge on the topic.

 

[harmonica]

much LESS!!..should be much less

 

[protectionist]

Thank you. I was confused by the OP's detailed response because it was conflating immigrants with illegal immigrants, and not all of his facts are correct. For instance, I teach two immigrants from Ireland (legal immigrants) and they are eligible for NO welfare benefits, not even student loans.

Excuse me. What facts are you claiming are not correct. ?

 

[Camp]

Traveling and working in agriculture regions. Those areas are nor generally located in the densely populated areas where labor is readily available

That is one VERY tiny area of the economy that does not require 11 million illegals to satisfy, and certainly is a small portion of agriculture, given that most harvest and production is automated. Why do we need 11 million illegal Mexicans for that?

Is agriculture a tiny area of the economy?

 

[OldLady]

Dunno. What's wrong with immigration?
Maine wants 'em. Not enough young workers. But no one is stupid enough to come here.

Why do you call it stupid to go there ? (Maine)

At least in my part of Maine, it is too cold for too long each year. There are very few good paying jobs except fishing, which requires a big initial investment and it will kill your back. Professional jobs--most folks have to move away to get jobs like that. Services, including medical services, are hours away. There is no public transportation and very little in the way of rental properties. We have to drive 90 miles to a movie theater. Enough reasons?

 

[protectionist]

You have no idea or clue about the topic you are trying to talk about. Even your questions show a complere lack of knowledge on the topic.

HA HA. I've been writing about immigration and illegal immigration in this forum and others, for many years. You can go to my numerous OPs for an education on the subject, free of charge.

Here's one to get you started >>

Brief Expose' Of The Mexican Invasion Of The United States (1950-2012)

Note: this Op was written some years ago, so the 2012 could be updated to 2018

Here's a brief expose' of the Mexican invasion of the United States (1950-2012). For those who have been brain-dead on all this, for past 60 years, Mexico has been carrying on one of the biggest and most succesful examples of imperialism any nation has ever engaged in (if Mexico can even be described as a "nation").

Led by Mexico's ultra-rich capitalist, ruling-class, billionaires like Carlos Slim Helu (world's richest person), Mexico maintains a monopoly system that won't allow Mexican small businesses to compete with it. And as long as these giants like Pemex (oil), Telex (communications), et al, maintain stiff control this way, Mexico will continue to drift along at about a sluggish 2% growth per year (if that).

Worse yet, is the "solution" that Mexico's greed freak masters have come up with to handle the massive poverty problem that they create. They just conveniently (for them) dump it on the United States. While shutting out the masses from Mexico's great wealth (oil, gold, silver, agriculture, tourism, etc), and creating one of the worst train wrecks of a country anyone has ever seen, these deranged plutocrats have solved their poverty problem by maintaining a 21st century style of imperialism. Instead of the traditional form with militaries, guns and bombs, Mexico, knowing they are incapable of doing that to the USA, use poor people instead. They send their poor to the US (assisted with guidebooks on how to evade US immigration authorities- I once had a copy of it) to scoop up American taxpayers' dollars in a wide assortment of welfare benefits. They also use the US Constitution's 14th amendment (never intended to be abused this way), allowing their poor to get US money, as long as they birth an anchor baby on US soil.

So together with using the US taxpayer (AKA "sucker") to pay their immense poverty bill (bigger than that paid to US native-borns), they also receive tens of Billion$$$$ per year in remittance$$$ (money sent to Mexican families in Mexico from Mexican immigrants in America). These huge sum$$$ are extracted out of the US economy, into the pockets of Mexicans working in the USA (most of them illegally), and after sent to Mexico, are then spent in Mexican stores, thereby being re-inserted into the Mexican economy. Nifty, huh ? At last count it was $28 Billion/year. The Vikings would be envious.

With all this disrespect for everyone other than themselves, the Mexican plutocrats also create a serious level of disrespect for them and the Mexican government they control. Consequently, drugs gangs run rampant as no one sees any moral authority in charge anyway.

So what has this MESS south of our border become (besides a cancer to us in the USA) ? I'd say Mexico, in all of its chaos and disorganization has become like a whale lost in a bay, but with plenty of fish to eat, and nobody quite sure what to do about it. Well, whales can be driven back out to sea by large ships. Only the effort is necessary.

Instead of a real effort to stop Mexico's relentless plunder of the USA, we have a spineless government that refuses to deal with the problem. In fact, the only US president I can recall actually doing anything about it was Eisenhower who presided over Operation Wetback in 1954, when US agents went around house to house in Southwestern states, hunting illegal aliens down and driving them out, and arresting them.

Huge numbers were deported, and more huge numbers fled back to Mexico on their own. In contrast, now we have had the do-nothing (on this issue) Congress and President Obama, whose answer to the Mexican invasion was to invite the leader of the invasion, Mexican President Calderon to Washington DC, so he could scold the US Congress for not being complicit enough in helping Mexico invade the US, and pillage its economy and tax treasuries. Sheeeeeshh !!

Well, after hundreds of thousands of US military members sacrificed their lives to prevent invasions of the US from Japan and Nazi Germany, one would think that we would at least try to stop this massive attack on our nation, no ?
So what actually should be done about this then ? I would propose the following:

We should give Carlos Slim and all the rest of his plutocrat rat pack 3 months to break up the monopolies, and initiate reforms that would open Mexico's economy to Mexican small business entrepreneurs, who then could hire millions of Mexicans to good jobs. This would also create some badly needed respect for Mexican authority, and help to spur public cooperation in stamping out the drug gangs.

This would have to be backed up by a stern warning that non-cooperation would result in US military action against Mexico which would likely result in the complete conquest of Mexico, and establishment of it as a US territory or state, under full US control. A buildup of US military along the Mexican border including fleets of US warships along both Mexican coasts would be in order as well, to give teeth to the demand.

On the US side, the 14th amendment should be revised to abolish birth citizenship. The Mexican border double fence (mandated by the 2006 Secure Fence Act) should be fully built, as it was supposed to have been done by now.
And President Obama's joking remark about adding a moat filled with alligators, wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Congress, with tax increases on the US employee super rich (which 3/4 of the American people support), should hire thousands of new ICE agents, CBP officers, immigration court officials, and build more immigration jails, and engage in a mass deportation program, which can easily be done as long as the will and resources are allocated to it.
This should also include a crackdown of illegal employers of illegal aliens, with arrests based on the 1986 IRCA law, as well as arrests of US mayors (starting with Michael Bloomberg of New York) and city councilmembers passing illegal (US Code 8, Section 1324) sanctuary laws, and illegally giving sanctuary to illegal aliens. In addition, vested interest pro-immigration groups like the US Democratic Party, many churches, unions, and ethnocentrist organizations like La Raza, LULAC, MALDEF, et al should be investigated for their roles, and held accountable for any/all illegal activities on their parts.

Vicente Fox Says Remittances Largest Source Of Revenue Since 2003, Gloats At Getting Illegals And Matricula Consular Into US : Diggers Realm

Mexico's Official "Guide For The Mexican Migrant" | www.dallas.org

 

[OldLady]

Agriculture workers are not available in the regions or areas they are needed without adding the high cost of housing and transportation to the labor cost.

Upon what do you base that statement ?

Traveling and working in agriculture regions. Those areas are nor generally located in the densely populated areas where labor is readily available.

It isn't just growing crops. In western New York, I hear the illegal immigrants are vital to the dairy industry, as well. Every one of those farmers should be fined within an inch of their lives. Even the pols know what's going on. It's ridiculous.

 

[OldLady]

Thank you. I was confused by the OP's detailed response because it was conflating immigrants with illegal immigrants, and not all of his facts are correct. For instance, I teach two immigrants from Ireland (legal immigrants) and they are eligible for NO welfare benefits, not even student loans.

Excuse me. What facts are you claiming are not correct. ?

The one about welfare benefits.

 

[harmonica]

CA — 57% of ALL voters
WI — 57% of ALL voters
CO — 56% of ALL voters
VA — 57% of ALL voters
OH — 65% of ALL voters
PA — 58% of ALL voters
TN — 64% of ALL voters

Calif. & Wis. voters nearly identical in wanting immigration reduced

Why?

1...we are in huge debt--these consulates/embassies cost $$$$ running this immigration stuff
2...ICE cost $$$$$...immigration cost the US $$$$
3...this is not 1850 or 1950 anymore --times have changed
4...terrorism--cyber/killing/etc....we want to keep the chances of that down
5...some schools are overflowing...some need to hire translators/etc for immigrants

The unexpected overflow has pushed some students into classes already straining with up to 48 students.

this in the immigrant capital of the US-California
Overflowing With Problems
Overcrowded Classrooms About to Burst
6....more workers = lower wages and higher prices
etc

 

[Camp]

Agriculture workers are not available in the regions or areas they are needed without adding the high cost of housing and transportation to the labor cost.

Upon what do you base that statement ?

Traveling and working in agriculture regions. Those areas are nor generally located in the densely populated areas where labor is readily available.

It isn't just growing crops. In western New York, I hear the illegal immigrants are vital to the dairy industry, as well. Every one of those farmers should be fined within an inch of their lives. Even the pols know what's going on. It's ridiculous.

Not just western New York. All over the country. Meatpacking and slaughtering facilities also. Canning and packaging facilities too. Many migrants still live in extreme poverty. Enforcement of even minimum safety and health regulations would skyrocket food costs in America.

 

[protectionist]

At least in my part of Maine, it is too cold for too long each year. There are very few good paying jobs except fishing, which requires a big initial investment and it will kill your back. Professional jobs--most folks have to move away to get jobs like that. Services, including medical services, are hours away. There is no public transportation and very little in the way of rental properties. We have to drive 90 miles to a movie theater. Enough reasons?

Maybe this will make you feel better. Here in the Tampa Bay area of Florida, we would almost kill to have your 78-79 degree average high temperature, instead of the 98-99 we suffer with (and very high humidity) Our summers are known as "tropical rain forest" or "outdoor steambath"

We haven't gone to a movie theater in 30 years, but if I ever lived there, I would have to be near a VA hospital. I'm sure you guys must have some of those.

 

[protectionist]

Not just western New York. All over the country. Meatpacking and slaughtering facilities also. Canning and packaging facilities too. Many migrants still live in extreme poverty. Enforcement of even minimum safety and health regulations would skyrocket food costs in America.

We'll see how that works out in the near future, as more and more illegals get the boot from Trump and Sessions' stepped up immigration enforcement.

Jeff Sessions Will Actually Enforce Immigration Law — And It's About Time | Investor's Business Daily