Zone1 The JEW From JUDEA ISRAEL [Jesus]

[theHawk]

here -- if you want to learn and check out sources, this is an OK place to start


who said Abraham is in Sheol?

Your own link proves my point:

In the Bible​

The Torah, the most important Jewish text, has no clear reference to afterlife at all. It would seem that the dead go down to Sheol, a kind of Hades, where they live an ethereal, shadowy existence (Num. 16:33; Ps. 6:6; Isa. 38:18). It is also said that Enoch “walked with God, and he was not; for God took him” (Gen. 5:24); and that Elijah is carried heavenward in a chariot of fire (II Kings 2:11). Even the fullest passage on the subject, the necromantic incident concerning the dead prophet Samuel at En-Dor, where his spirit is raised from the dead by a witch at the behest of Saul, does little to throw light on the matter (1 Sam. 28:8 ff.). The one point which does emerge clearly from the above passages is that there existed a belief in an afterlife of one form or another. (For a full discussion see Pedersen, Israel, 1–2 (1926), 460 ff. A more critical view may be found in G. von Rad, Old Testament Theology, 2 vols., 1962.) Though the Talmudic rabbis claimed there were many allusions to the subject in the Bible (cf.Sanh. 90b–91a), the first explicit biblical formulation of the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead occurs in the book of Daniel, in the following passage:

Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence (Dan. 12:2; see also Isa. 26:19;Ezek. 37:1 ff.).



The OT does not say righteous people go to heaven. They all go down into Sheol, with few exceptions like Moses and Elijah.

You are the one that claimed all are judged immediately when they die. This is the case now because Jesus opened the gates to heaven that were barred in Sheol, allowing those trapped there like Abraham to get into heaven. Without Jesus it is not possible. People were not allowed to go to heaven before the Messiah.

 

[rosends]

What prophet told the Jews to stop using capital punishment in 70AD?

Um, none. Prophecy had ended a few hundred years before. Are you not familiar with that? Wow.

Am I aware it was rarely used. That doesn’t excuse why Jews stopped following such laws.

Who says we stopped. Maybe there are more laws that preclude our using it right now.

 

[Meriweather]

I never claimed otherwise. The OT is the basis for Christians, as we believe the same things faithful Israelites believed, in the Messiah.

Modern Jews do not have the same beliefs as the ancient Israelites of 2000+ years ago.

Their Talmud, Midrash, Kabbalah, Zohar etc are all modern inventions after the time of Jesus that totally redefined Judaism into what it is today. They are “commentaries” designed to lead people away from Christ, which of course means straight to hell.

The Talmud, Midrash, Kabbalah, etc. have been accused of referencing Jesus. The short answer to this, is no. The longer answer is that certain passages are referencing Jesus and this is no more than a scholarly debate. If some Jews were to say, "This passage is about a character(s) that remind me of Jesus" that is their own opinion, not necessarily the intent of the author of the passage. As I said earlier, the short answer is, No--Jesus is not mentioned in the Talmud. There are Christians who take some unflattering character trait passages and accuse Jews of writing these passages specifically about Jesus and then accuse Jews of thinking these things about Jesus, when their thoughts are not about Jesus at all.

True some Jews do have an unflattering picture of Jesus...usually brought about by Christians, not any of their own writings. There are no Jewish commentaries designed to lead anyone to hell. They are about leading Jews to living a righteous life in the present.

 

[rosends]

Your own link proves my point:

In the Bible​

The Torah, the most important Jewish text, has no clear reference to afterlife at all. It would seem that the dead go down to Sheol, a kind of Hades, where they live an ethereal, shadowy existence (Num. 16:33; Ps. 6:6; Isa. 38:18). It is also said that Enoch “walked with God, and he was not; for God took him” (Gen. 5:24); and that Elijah is carried heavenward in a chariot of fire (II Kings 2:11). Even the fullest passage on the subject, the necromantic incident concerning the dead prophet Samuel at En-Dor, where his spirit is raised from the dead by a witch at the behest of Saul, does little to throw light on the matter (1 Sam. 28:8 ff.). The one point which does emerge clearly from the above passages is that there existed a belief in an afterlife of one form or another. (For a full discussion see Pedersen, Israel, 1–2 (1926), 460 ff. A more critical view may be found in G. von Rad, Old Testament Theology, 2 vols., 1962.) Though the Talmudic rabbis claimed there were many allusions to the subject in the Bible (cf.Sanh. 90b–91a), the first explicit biblical formulation of the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead occurs in the book of Daniel, in the following passage:

Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence (Dan. 12:2; see also Isa. 26:19;Ezek. 37:1 ff.).



The OT does not say righteous people go to heaven. They all go down into Sheol, with few exceptions like Moses and Elijah.

No, the text doesn't say they go down to Sheol. Jacob DOES say that he is afraid he will go to Sheol. Num 16:33 speaks of Korach and his followers. The otehr cited texts say nothing like what you are claiming. Show me in the text that it says that everyone and Abraham go to Sheol. Betcha can't.

 

[theHawk]

Um, none. Prophecy had ended a few hundred years before. Are you not familiar with that? Wow.

Who says we stopped. Maybe there are more laws that preclude our using it right now.

LOL and who declared prophecy was over?

 

[rosends]

LOL and who declared prophecy was over?

Feel free to read and learn. I'm glad you are finally asking questions.

 

[irosie91]

the serpent is the head of judaism their choice as themselves special to the heavens than all others ... false commandments they claim, moses - etched in the heavens the derision of humanity as sinners in the beginning et al, the religion as the others of deceivers and serpents throughout.

all three desert religions have the same preamble to their bibles - they are one in the same.

Hezekiah destroyed the "brass serpent" for which he is highly lauded. The book called "GENESIS" is---INVO---
In My Vaunted Opinion SUPERBLY SUBLIME----its theme
is the fact of FREE CHOICE----very unique for its time

 

[theHawk]

Feel free to read and learn. I'm glad you are finally asking questions.

Once again your link does not prove your claim.

In fact, it proves my point:

Even if Malachi were the last of the biblical prophets, there is no statement at the end of his book or anywhere else in the Bible stating categorically that prophecy had ceased. For example, Nehemiah battled false prophets (Neh. 6:5–7, 11–13) but did not negate the existence of prophecy in principle.

It was a group a rabbis, ones that rejected Jesus and followed Satan, that decided there would be no more prophets.

 

[rosends]

Once again your link does not prove your claim.

In fact, it proves my point:

Even if Malachi were the last of the biblical prophets, there is no statement at the end of his book or anywhere else in the Bible stating categorically that prophecy had ceased. For example, Nehemiah battled false prophets (Neh. 6:5–7, 11–13) but did not negate the existence of prophecy in principle.

It was a group a rabbis, ones that rejected Jesus and followed Satan, that decided there would be no more prophets.

those same rabbis are the ones who established the entire concept of a messianic figure. It was their talmud that Jesus quoted, and their teachings that he endorsed. But I'm sure you know better.

You also assu that things in the talmud were all inventions and innovations. But they usually aren't -- they are explanations based on detailed investigation of the text. Since you don't know the text, you don't value investigation into it.

 

[irosie91]

Liars. The “Midrash” came about centuries after Jesus. It is the Judaism 2.0’s ideology of perverting the scriptures by claiming they need to be “interpreted” entirely differently from what they actually say. It is at the core of your heresy.

wrong again---the Midrash includes commentary ---lots
in the form of HEURISTIC PARABLES. An interesting bit---
somehow some muslim scholars decided that the parables
of the Midrash constitute HISTORY -----uhm...like
SOLOMON actually TALKED TO ANTS ---it shows up in
koran footnotes (hadiths)

 

[theHawk]

those same rabbis are the ones who established the entire concept of a messianic figure. It was their talmud that Jesus quoted, and their teachings that he endorsed. But I'm sure you know better.

More Fake News.

Those Rabbis did not “establish” the entire concept of a messianic figure. That was done in the Torah and Tanakh and oral traditions thousands of years earlier.

You seem to be confusing the Talmud with the Torah. Jesus quoted the Torah and other Jewish books at the time, not “the Talmud”. The Talmud came centuries later.


Your lies are falling apart at the seams.

 

[theHawk]

wrong again---the Midrash includes commentary ---lots
in the form of HEURISTIC PARABLES. An interesting bit---
somehow some muslim scholars decided that the parables
of the Midrash constitute HISTORY -----uhm...like
SOLOMON actually TALKED TO ANTS ---it shows up in
koran footnotes (hadiths)

Why would I give a flip what satanic Muslims believe?

 

[irosie91]

Both are used in Talmudic Judaism. It’s the same mindset, to discredit Jesus and to lead Jews away from Jesus at all costs. To lead them to in an eternity in hell.

Hawk presents a very prominent Islamo-Nazi libel---to wit--
the IDIOT CLAIM that the Talmud (and Midrash) were written
to DISCREDIT Jesus----this idiot idea is widely held as true as
the "blood in matzoh" bullshit. An interesting point----muslim preachers claim that the "Old Testament" and "New
Testament" were written for the PURPOSE of refuting Islam.
I heard this idiot idea (specifically in reference to the New
Testament in a Mosque on a Good Friday---more than 50
years ago)-----I almost vomited at the HATRED expressed by
the "imam"-----who screeched--re christians -------
ENEMEEEEEES OF ISLAAAAM I was offended---to me
Easter is something like a NATIONAL HOLIDAY

 

[irosie91]

Why would I give a flip what satanic Muslims believe?

I do----I am an INTELLECTUALLY CURIOUS person.
It is very likely that the PROFETTTTT heard the midrash
parables and took them as "biblical history"

 

[rosends]

More Fake News.

Those Rabbis did not “establish” the entire concept of a messianic figure. That was done in the Torah and Tanakh and oral traditions thousands of years earlier.

the oral tradition is a Jewish concept and is used to label the mishna. You are saying that you approve of the mishna?

You seem to be confusing the Talmud with the Torah. Jesus quoted the Torah and other Jewish books at the time, not “the Talmud”. The Talmud came centuries later.

no, he quoted the talmud. Would you like examples?

 

[theHawk]

Hawk presents a very prominent Islamo-Nazi libel---to wit--
the IDIOT CLAIM that the Talmud (and Midrash) were written
to DISCREDIT Jesus----this idiot idea is widely held as true as
the "blood in matzoh" bullshit. An interesting point----muslim preachers claim that the "Old Testament" and "New
Testament" were written for the PURPOSE of refuting Islam.
I heard this idiot idea (specifically in reference to the New
Testament in a Mosque on a Good Friday---more than 50
years ago)-----I almost vomited at the HATRED expressed by
the "imam"-----who screeched--re christians -------
ENEMEEEEEES OF ISLAAAAM I was offended---to me
Easter is something like a NATIONAL HOLIDAY

Muslims follow the Fake Jews that rejected Jesus. They deny God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, all of which are found in the Old Testament.

 

[theHawk]

no, he quoted the talmud. Would you like examples?

Go for it.

 

[rosends]

Go for it.

of course to do so, we have to assume that the words attributed to Jesus in the gospels are accurate. Most of the copied bits are in Matthew: 5:10-11 lifts from Bava Kamma 93a, 5:24 echoed Avot 5:14, 5:28 lifts right from Kallah, chapter 1, 5:32 takes from Gittin 90a...there are a bunch more including how 7:3-5 is actually from Archin 16b).

Here is Jesus (via Matthew) taking talmudic ideas and repeating them in his teachings. Seems like a pretty clear endorsement of what the talmud says.

 

[irosie91]

Muslims follow the Fake Jews that rejected Jesus. They deny God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, all of which are found in the Old Testament.

"rejected Jesus"? Can you define "rejected Jesus"? Interestingly, Muslims claim that they are LINKED TO
CHRISTIANS ----because unlike them "lousy joooos" ---they
LOVE Jesus. You could use a few Friday mornings in the
Mosque

 

[irosie91]

of course to do so, we have to assume that the words attributed to Jesus in the gospels are accurate. Most of the copied bits are in Matthew: 5:10-11 lifts from Bava Kamma 93a, 5:24 echoed Avot 5:14, 5:28 lifts right from Kallah, chapter 1, 5:32 takes from Gittin 90a...there are a bunch more including how 7:3-5 is actually from Archin 16b).

Here is Jesus (via Matthew) taking talmudic ideas and repeating them in his teachings. Seems like a pretty clear endorsement of what the talmud says.

Yes and no ---Re: the credibility of accurate NT reporting
of words spoken by Jesus. Many of his putative words
just STRONGLY SUGGEST Constantine's hatred of JOOOS---. The much lauded "SERMON ON THE MOUNT"-- is
jewish ----thru and thru. I could not convince an Iranian
Jewess I knew---that "THE LORD'S PRAYER" is "christian"