The Jesus Narrative in the Talmud

[irosie91]

There should not be so much confusion about the name Yeshua from which we have the name Jesus derived in our language for our Lord and Savior. It was a common name among Jews of that time in Judea and surrounding areas. It was the short form of the name Yehoshua, for the meaning Yahweh's salvation. Our derived name Jesus in our language is not from something else.

do you imagine that you made a point?

 

[HaShev]

Actually, there are 7.

Which is why I said at a minimum the 3 main characters used Were Yeshu,Yehuda,Theudas
There was another Yehuda in 100bc era, that's 4,
Benjamin the Egyptian that's 5, is Shimon the Magician part of your list? Who's 7 Baracopa who came later or John the righteous who the followers became Mandeans a group of Sabeans that favored John and saw Jesus (Theudas by the Jordan) as the false propet evil one who had Salome (a friend and follower) have John killed (stealing his followers)?

Then there is the mythical miraculous image created by mythologies of many figures like Baal, Krishna, Mithra, Esus, Osiris, Horus etc

 

[FredVegbarfuss]

do you imagine that you made a point?

Yes, I do. I see communication in error contrary to these things.
"There should not be so much confusion about the name Yeshua from which we have the name Jesus derived in our language for our Lord and Savior. It was a common name among Jews of that time in Judea and surrounding areas. It was the short form of the name Yehoshua, for the meaning Yahweh's salvation. Our derived name Jesus in our language is not from something else."

That there are things mentioned about anyone with the name in the Talmud is irrelevant, when it the scriptures that are, which has prophecies that are fulfilled in Yeshua who is Messiah, the Christ. Most of the Talmud dates from the fifth century, and was speaking for understanding the scriptures, from different teachers who were not all consistent with each other, in the Talmud.

 

[Stann]

Actually Abram talked with (we believe) Shem.... Noah's son. He likely was alive at the time.

When Abram was alive the estimated world population ( of course, extrapolated ) was approximately

Actually Abram talked with (we believe) Shem.... Noah's son. He likely was alive at the time.

 

[Stann]

Actually Abram talked with (we believe) Shem.... Noah's son. He likely was alive at the time.

The world population was approximately 12 million. I doubt very much that Shawn was still alive.

 

[HaShev]

Yes, I do. I see communication in error contrary to these things.
"There should not be so much confusion about the name Yeshua from which we have the name Jesus derived in our language for our Lord and Savior. It was a common name among Jews of that time in Judea and surrounding areas. It was the short form of the name Yehoshua, for the meaning Yahweh's salvation. Our derived name Jesus in our language is not from something else."

That there are things mentioned about anyone with the name in the Talmud is irrelevant, when it the scriptures that are, which has prophecies that are fulfilled in Yeshua who is Messiah, the Christ. Most of the Talmud dates from the fifth century, and was speaking for understanding the scriptures, from different teachers who were not all consistent with each other, in the Talmud.

That's not true nor rational.
You see the Talmud is very accurate historical references that help time frame the Rabbis and head Rabbis in the records by accounts with Kings which are accurately historically dated and through moon cycles.
It also gives us proof of borrowing/plagiarizing stories and or mixing figures and accts through passing down the line stories people previously had about other similar characters. This mishap of confusing personas & stories in them even happen in our communication age, so imagine the mix up of accts in the archaic ages.
Which is why the NT has thousands of errors and contradictions. The NT is not written by the people who's name are attributed to the books and it was written many decades later.
You even have evidence of there being more than 1 christ being taught when James claims Paul's Christ is not the same (Paul & James were fighting that the other was worshiping another Christ),
and John of Patmos seems to be accounting another as well.
Book of Acts mentions the other christs Yehuda and Theudas and even mess that up by confusing which died before the other (mixing up their eras) proving my " story passed down the line" comment -that the end result is always a new confused acct.

 

[FredVegbarfuss]

That's not true nor rational.
You see the Talmud is very accurate historical references that help time frame the Rabbis and head Rabbis in the records by accounts with Kings which are accurately historically dated and through moon cycles.
It also gives us proof of borrowing/plagiarizing stories and or mixing figures and accts through passing down the line stories people previously had about other similar characters. This mishap of confusing personas & stories in them even happen in our communication age, so imagine the mix up of accts in the archaic ages.
Which is why the NT has thousands of errors and contradictions. The NT is not written by the people who's name are attributed to the books and it was written many decades later.
You even have evidence of there being more than 1 christ being taught when James claims Paul's Christ is not the same (Paul & James were fighting that the other was worshiping another Christ),
and John of Patmos seems to be accounting another as well.
Book of Acts mentions the other christs Yehuda and Theudas and even mess that up by confusing which died before the other (mixing up their eras) proving my " story passed down the line" comment -that the end result is always a new confused acct.

You have to have the trust in the Talmud to believe it and believe from it that the new testament is full of errors. That won't prove to others that it is. There are not those stated cases in the new testament. Paul and James were not fighting, about the other serving another Christ, or anything else. We can't come to know all of Yahweh's will and purpose for us that we are not ready for. Still all should be ready for the revelation of Christ to them. There were other Christs, according to their claim. But none spoke the things that Yeshua, known to believers as Jesus, was saying, and fulfilling prophecies, that there is fulfillment of what is in the Hebrew scriptures from things in the new testament.

 

[BackAgain]

Anti religious bigots hate religious zealots, but they can’t quite seem to recognize that they are zealots, themselves.

 

[irosie91]

You have to have the trust in the Talmud to believe it and believe from it that the new testament is full of errors. That won't prove to others that it is. There are not those stated cases in the new testament. Paul and James were not fighting, about the other serving another Christ, or anything else. We can't come to know all of Yahweh's will and purpose for us that we are not ready for. Still all should be ready for the revelation of Christ to them. There were other Christs, according to their claim. But none spoke the things that Yeshua, known to believers as Jesus, was saying, and fulfilling prophecies, that there is fulfillment of what is in the Hebrew scriptures from things in the new testament.

you have no idea what THE TALMUD IS.
It is not, IMO, a scriptural writing like the OT, NT and Ramayana

 

[HaShev]

You have to have the trust in the Talmud to believe it and believe from it that the new testament is full of errors. That won't prove to others that it is. There are not those stated cases in the new testament. Paul and James were not fighting, about the other serving another Christ, or anything else. We can't come to know all of Yahweh's will and purpose for us that we are not ready for. Still all should be ready for the revelation of Christ to them. There were other Christs, according to their claim. But none spoke the things that Yeshua, known to believers as Jesus, was saying, and fulfilling prophecies, that there is fulfillment of what is in the Hebrew scriptures from things in the new testament.

The NT errors are within it's own contradictions and historical inaccuracies without help from the Talmud clarifying the time lines of Kings and Rabbis. Example:
The NT says Capernaum is his hometown not Nazareth which was not yet built or established until 90ad according to Roman letters ordering it's soldiers to build the town. That's not the Talmud, that's dated Roman documents and NT verses like:
Matthew 4:13
Matthew 11:23
Matthew 17:24
Mark 1:21,2:1 etc
The contradictions exist all over the NT including contradicting history.
The reason: Rome created an Image of a man using many men called christs, myths, and biblical figures plagiarised. Hence needing a new name and birthdate and why the character has more then 2 eras of existance
spanning 100 bc-45ad, 2 professions, 2 punishments stoning-hanging on a tree and crucifixion, 2 blames the elect and Rome, characters change new names, 2 home towns Capernaum & Nazareth, 2 descriptions, Paul & James fighting that the other is worshiping another Christ, etc...
Rome did this to many cultures to be authority and tax collector (tithes) to their gods so there'd be less insurrection and they could get their foot in many kingdoms unsuspected that the political power (horn) was hiding behind the religious authority (horn) hence the symbolic
2 horn scarlet beast (devil symbol) using the color of Rome's 2 horn system authority.
They say Rome would lift a false prophet as a god and that's what they did, do you know which of the 3 (trinity) christs they placed ahead of the others they converged?
yeshu son of the harlot mary of 100bc
Because she had Yeshu through a fling with a Roman soldier Pantheras (Pandera) thus half Roman character and why it's called the Harlot church. Rome created the adversary, read
rev 22:16 they give up the punchline at the end of the joke calling him Baal's son the morning star=Lucifer.
[See Lucifer here etymology of "": "[ the morning star, a fallen rebel archangel, THE Devil, fr. OE. fr. Latin, the morning star, fr. Lucifer light-bearing, fr. luc light + -fer -ferous--more at LIGHT]" (Webster's, p.677)
“So we have the prophetic message more fully confirmed. You will do well to be attentive to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star (LUCIFER)rises in your hearts.” -- 2 Peter 1:19
“... from my Father. To the one who conquers(DESTROYS) I will also give the morning star(LUCIFER).” -- Revelation 2:28
· Revelation 22:16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things in the churches.
· I am the bright and Morning Star (lucifer)

Now you know why the NT contradicts the OT, & why the character wanted to divide (Matthew 10: 34-40) instead of peace (Rome's adversary nature), wanted the keys to gates of hell instead of heaven, went to hell instead of heaven(acts 2:23 1 peter 3:19)
called the God of this world (life) evil. Prefered death the curse over Creator's creation. Mimicked the serpent's false promise of eternal life if you took the fruit from his tree.
Mixed good and evil. And claimed he'd melt the earth in a burning flame. (Matthew 10: 34-40
& Thomas Verse 16)

Contradictions:
Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?



(a) By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22).



(b) On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42)



This most likely means Matts Christ is Yehuda the Galilean tax revolter who lived in the Herod Lysanias era and died in 6bc. While John's might be The AD era Theudas by the Jordan.



Although the verse after still can be the Galilean he refers to



As this character Jesus



decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43) after.



How do we determine which one? Well John elsewhere Says Jesus is closer to 50 and since Theudas lasted to 45 ad the AD era christ is the one John is talking about which is Theudas.



History contradicts the tales:



Jesus was supposed to have been baptized by the baptist John soon after John the Baptist had started baptizing and preaching in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberias, i.e. 28-29 C.E., when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judaea i.e. 26-36 C.E. According to the New Testament, this also happened when Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene and Annas and Caiaphas were high priests. But Lysanias ruled Abilene from c. 40 B.C.E until he was executed in 36 B.C.E by Mark Antony, about 60 years before the date for Tiberias and about 30 years before the supposed birth of Jesus!



This is why it says Satan (Rome the adversary) changes dates and time and holidays.



This throws people off the historical reality to expose the forging of the figure and his image.



Even older copies of John contradict newer ones and chapters in John contradict each other in itself so John as a whole is proven tainted and contradicting enough to not assume anything.



Mark 6:16 is the later AD Herod and Baptist AD era christ Theudas so Mark also is a Theudite.



But wait a second: both
John 18-19 and Mark 14-15 even though contradicting each other are talking about the events of Yeshu son of Mary in around 88-85 bc where he was



sentenced at passover (rarity of high holidays being used for sentencing makes this acct of Yeshu a match hard to argue.



And yet both mention Pilate a supposed AD era figure, and a crucifixion in John 19 which was not the stoned and hanged christ on passover.



The crucified christs were Yehuda and Theudas, but Yeshu son of Mary was slew and hanged even acct in Nt in
Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29,
1 Peter 2:24.



So the writers of John and Mark are blending Christs through passing confused stories down the line or on purpose, just as you acknowledge Roman forged texts have done.



What we do know is that John and Mark seem to be addressing mainly Theudas and not your claim it's Yeshu.



Yet still mix the Christs in the accts proving it's not Historical and is also a compuled mess as other texts.



Like John talking about Mother Mary being there during the AD era Crucifixion. Impossible unless Yehuda or Theudas Mom was named Mary, but then Joseph story in Matt shows Mary is the 100bc harlot character and why John of Patmos would call it the Harlot church.

 

[shimon]

You have to have the trust in the Talmud to believe it and believe from it that the new testament is full of errors. That won't prove to others that it is. There are not those stated cases in the new testament. Paul and James were not fighting, about the other serving another Christ, or anything else. We can't come to know all of Yahweh's will and purpose for us that we are not ready for. Still all should be ready for the revelation of Christ to them. There were other Christs, according to their claim. But none spoke the things that Yeshua, known to believers as Jesus, was saying, and fulfilling prophecies, that there is fulfillment of what is in the Hebrew scriptures from things in the new testament.

Best be careful using that name ” Yeshua” lest you open up a whole new can of worms eh Michael… Chuckling….Speaking of which the name Jesus did not come into existence till they added the letter J to the alphabet in the 16 th century so you don’t even have a proper name let alone anything attributed to this supposed person…If one takes out that “ J” one has ESUS the triune god of the gauls…Further one cannot speak literally if one does not have a mouth to do so and pages in a book are read and given life by those that read them or write them it does not mean they ever existed… Just like the fictional characters in for example The lord of the rings or any other novel where the heroes and villains are given “Life” by the story tellers or writers…The ” stories” attributed to “ Jesus” cannot be verified outside by any historical documents that have been either way after the fact of his supposed life or have been tampered with..

 

[FredVegbarfuss]

I don't have anything at all to apologize for if I speak of Jesus or of him by the Hebrew name that it is actually based on, Yeshua. Any can find contradictions in the Bible if they want to, but those always involve conjectures when what is alleged can be shown by any other to work compatibly. He is Christ, who fulfilled many prophecies, while some prophecies will still be fulfilled when he will return. Witnesses gave their lives for him, even dying for the truth of him. From him we learn the right way to live, coming to God again, with love of God who loves us and would deliver us not wanting that we would perish, loving others, doing good for them, and acting with mercy and being at peace where we can be, making peace among others. There is religion perverting what we are to learn from him, but his is the right way. Conjectures do not prove it is otherwise.