Zone1 The issue of abortion for the Christian regarding politics

[NotYankee]

And to think that so many schieze kopf "Christians of USA support it all.

 

[TNHarley]

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It was that individual's "choice" to avoid getting in the situation in the first place.

All your cult proves is that they're too stupid to learn how to not get pregnant.





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Yep, birth control is 100% effective, and if a chick doesnt use it, she should lose her bodily autonomy and give it to the state.

 

[Chuz Life]

Which one is premeditated? Murder or homicide?

It's not either or.

All murders are also homicides.

Is abortion premeditated? Or is it an accident that happens?

I see what you are getting at and probably what you are getting hung up on.

Abortions are premeditated. Well, at least elective abortions are.

You likely think that because a killing (homicide) is premeditated, it can't be justified as "self-defense" and that would make it more of a murder.

Correct?

 

[Chuz Life]

So the mother who who aborts her child has committed murder?

Unless the abortion can be justified somehow (Constitutionally.) Yes.

 

[ding]

It's not either or.

All murders are also homicides.



I see what you are getting at and probably what you are getting hung up on.

Abortions are premeditated. Well, at least elective abortions are.

You likely think that because a killing (homicide) is premeditated, it can't be justified as "self-defense" and that would make it more of a murder.

Correct?

Correct. The vast majority of abortions are not self defense. The only reason we are having this discussion is because you disagree with my position that abortion should be a misdemeanor. Yet you yourself are unwilling to label it murder when it clearly meets the definition of murder. So you have no basis for deviating from the position that abortion is murder. Whereas my position is supported by the fact that abortion by a mother has never been adjudicated as homicide or murder because abortion has always been treated as its own category. So there is nothing inherently wrong with the punishment being a misdemeanor.

 

[ding]

Unless the abortion can be justified somehow (Constitutionally.) Yes.

Absent a federal law - like making it a misdemeanor - it will continue to be up to each state to decide.

 

[Winco]

Just imagine that there was never a conservative Christian (R) voter who never had an abortion.

Yea, I can’t image it either
Christian (R) women actually do get abortions.

 

[Chuz Life]

Absent a federal law - like making it a misdemeanor - it will continue to be up to each state to decide.

Ding, what is it that you think many of us are working towards, if it is not a federal law to protect the children who are (for now) being denied?

 

[Chuz Life]

Correct. The vast majority of abortions are not self defense. The only reason we are having this discussion is because you disagree with my position that abortion should be a misdemeanor. Yet you yourself are unwilling to label it murder when it clearly meets the definition of murder. So you have no basis for deviating from the position that abortion is murder. Whereas my position is supported by the fact that abortion by a mother has never been adjudicated as homicide or murder because abortion has always been treated as its own category. So there is nothing inherently wrong with the punishment being a misdemeanor.

https://x.com/search?q=from%3AChuz_Life%20%20abortion%20is%20murder&src=typed_query

 

[initforme]

As more young married couples chose not to have kids, they take the steps to prevent conception. This should make for less abortions. All of the above are good trends.

 

[forkintheroad7]

The person who acted like his miscarried children were not important and blah blah blah

doesn't sound like anyone who even is striving to be Christian. If you have the Holy Spirit in your life, you will care about all humans, even though you won't be perfect in charity 24/7/365..

Anyone who accepts abortion and calls himself Christian is either being deceitful or is just ignorant.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Very strange story of mother who murdered six newborns

Megan Huntsman: The Utah Mother Who Killed Her Six Infants – True Crime Archives

Catholics (she was not Catholic) don't believe in birth control, but we can't help wondering: why didn't she use birth control? Or if the birth control failed, as it often does, why, since she wasn't Catholic or any other kind of Christian, didn't she have a legal abortion? Maybe she and her husband didn't have much money? Obviously, Catholics don't believe in abortion either..

So it's interesting that people reporting on this case or providing legal assistance were horrified, and yet down the street from where she lived (or thereabouts) was an abortion clinic where she could have legally killed those babies and no one would have bat an eye...

Our society is schizo

 

[forkintheroad7]

Post #172

could also have gone in that thread about Most Stupid Human You've Ever Seen (or whatever it was)

She kept the remains of the infants in the garage!

She could have taken the box(es) and burned the remains and no one would have known!

Wow... unbelievable how stupid people can be.. But she was a drug addict

Never having used drugs, I have no idea to speak of, how they affect the mind and decision making but damn, you'd think................

 

[forkintheroad7]

You likely think that because a killing (homicide) is premeditated, it can't be justified as "self-defense" and that would make it more of a murder.

Correct?

I don't know what your targeted poster says to this but yeh, I say abortion is premeditated murder

 

[Chuz Life]

I don't know what your targeted poster says to this but yeh, I say abortion is premeditated murder

I don't disagree in the vast majority of cases.

However!

Is it murder when it is necessary to save the woman's life?

Yes, I know some claim that an abortion is never necessary to save the mother's life. It's an academic question to make a point. And also, those people were not there with me and my family when we were faced with making that decision ourselves.

Lucky for us, symptoms improved, and enough more time was brought to where we could induce.

 

[forkintheroad7]

I don't disagree in the vast majority of cases.

However!

Is it murder when it is necessary to save the woman's life?

Yes, I know some claim that an abortion is never necessary to save the mother's life. It's an academic question to make a point. And also, those people were not there with me and my family when we were faced with making that decision ourselves.

Lucky for us, symptoms improved, and enough more time was brought to where we could induce.

I'm glad you didn't have to feel coerced into abortion, as most women likely are one way or another.

Ectopic pregnancies are the only one where abortion is usually the only option. However, in time, we could likely be able to put the baby back in the right place in the uterus. I frankly don't know why we can't do that now... But 99% of pregnancies are not ectopic (or something like 99%)

 

[Chuz Life]

I'm glad you didn't have to feel coerced into abortion, as most women likely are one way or another.

Ectopic pregnancies are the only one where abortion is usually the only option. However, in time, we could likely be able to put the baby back in the right place in the uterus. I frankly don't know why we can't do that now... But 99% of pregnancies are not ectopic (or something like 99%)

In our case, my wife was facing blindness and many other problems because her body was rejecting the baby. Because she was so preemie, I was close to losing both of them.

 

[forkintheroad7]

In our case, my wife was facing blindness and many other problems because her body was rejecting the baby. Because she was so preemie, I was close to losing both of them.

I don't know if I've ever heard of a woman's body rejecting a baby. Was it because of the different blood types? I heard something about that, how if the baby has RH negative and the mother has positive, there can be a problem.. or maybe it's the other way around

 

[Chuz Life]

I don't know if I've ever heard of a woman's body rejecting a baby. Was it because of the different blood types? I heard something about that, how if the baby has RH negative and the mother has positive, there can be a problem.. or maybe it's the other way around

It's kind of a miraculous thing in every pregnancy.

Immune system changes during pregnancy are precisely timed

A woman's immune system changes throughout a normal pregnancy in a highly orchestrated manner, Stanford researchers have found. The findings lay the groundwork for tests to predict preterm birth.

www.med.stanford.edu

 

[forkintheroad7]

It's kind of a miraculous thing in every pregnancy.

Immune system changes during pregnancy are precisely timed

A woman's immune system changes throughout a normal pregnancy in a highly orchestrated manner, Stanford researchers have found. The findings lay the groundwork for tests to predict preterm birth.

www.med.stanford.edu

View attachment 1158315

That science was interesting.. can't say I understand the T cell thing much, but I got the part about how the body changes for the sake of the baby.

Fearfully and wonderfully made, as the Bible says.

So how old is the "product of conception" now? lol