The Imaginary Greatness of FDR

[Old Rocks]

FDR supposedly is a Great President for "Getting us out of the Great Depression."

Here's the data set.

I see no greatness. I see 8 consecutive years of failure.

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

What's so great about averaging 20% unemployment for 8 consecutive years?

And when you are dust, and no memory of you is to be found, people will still admire Franklin Delono Roosevelt. And destest the memory of the George W. Bush.

 

[Old Rocks]

Government canceled war contracts, and its spending fell from $84 billion in 1945 to under $30 billion in 1946. By 1947, the government was paying back its massive wartime debts by running a budget surplus of close to 6 percent of GDP. The military released around 10 million Americans back into civilian life. Most economic controls were lifted, and all were gone less than a year after V-J Day. In short, the economy underwent what the historian Jack Stokes Ballard refers to as the "shock of peace." From the economy's perspective, it was the "shock of de-stimulus."

Stimulus by Spending Cuts: Lessons from 1946 | Jason E. Taylor and Richard K. Vedder | Cato Institute: Policy Report

The Cato Institutes reports concerning policy by Democratic Presidents has the same approach to reality as Palin's approach to science.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

FDR supposedly is a Great President for "Getting us out of the Great Depression."

Here's the data set.

I see no greatness. I see 8 consecutive years of failure.

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

What's so great about averaging 20% unemployment for 8 consecutive years?

And when you are dust, and no memory of you is to be found, people will still admire Franklin Delono Roosevelt. And destest the memory of the George W. Bush.

You guys have been lying to us for a long time and you need to be mindful that you no longer have a media monopoly. It's a game changer and you still haven't caught on.

You wish I were dust because I'm here to continue challenging your Bizzaorland World View where 20% unemployment is Great and you think you can continue to never test your simple theories in a laboratory for fear of failure and exposure.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Government canceled war contracts, and its spending fell from $84 billion in 1945 to under $30 billion in 1946. By 1947, the government was paying back its massive wartime debts by running a budget surplus of close to 6 percent of GDP. The military released around 10 million Americans back into civilian life. Most economic controls were lifted, and all were gone less than a year after V-J Day. In short, the economy underwent what the historian Jack Stokes Ballard refers to as the "shock of peace." From the economy's perspective, it was the "shock of de-stimulus."

Stimulus by Spending Cuts: Lessons from 1946 | Jason E. Taylor and Richard K. Vedder | Cato Institute: Policy Report

The Cato Institutes reports concerning policy by Democratic Presidents has the same approach to reality as Palin's approach to science.

Scientists, did you mean real scientists that test their theories in Labs so other can verify the results or Warmers who just pat each other on the back?

 

[GHook93]

Progressives spread the fable of FDR's greatness in order to continue the expansion of Big Government from New Deal programs. To them, he really is great, just not in the way its taught in sanctioned textbooks.

Not quite sure about all that. I was taught in school that WW II got us out of the depression; however, I was also taught FDR's policies kept us afloat during that time.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wow, I give them weeks to study and the Progressives all fail to show up. Do you know why? It's because the only reason FDR is labeled "Great" was for advancing Socialism (aka: Progressivism) and not for any good he did to the economy.

If FDR and the New Deal did any good for the economy, I'd be desperately trying to find a way to respond to the Progressives. Instead, the truth melts them like Dracula to the new dawn or water to the Wicked Witch.

Obama's New Deal is as big a fail as FDR's and this time we can see it for ourselves without the filter of the lying LMSM.

Anytime anyone of you Progressives feel like you have an answer you can post it here.

 

[8537]

Wow, I give them weeks to study and the Progressives all fail to show up. Do you know why? It's because the only reason FDR is labeled "Great" was for advancing Socialism (aka: Progressivism) and not for any good he did to the economy.

If FDR and the New Deal did any good for the economy, I'd be desperately trying to find a way to respond to the Progressives. Instead, the truth melts them like Dracula to the new dawn or water to the Wicked Witch.

Obama's New Deal is as big a fail as FDR's and this time we can see it for ourselves without the filter of the lying LMSM.

Anytime anyone of you Progressives feel like you have an answer you can post it here.

Four years preceeding FDR taking office: Economy loses 40% + of it's productive value. Unemployment rises to over 25%.

Four years after FDR passes the first reforms of the New Deal: Economy grows at pace not seen before or since. Unemployment is reduced to 15%.

Year before Obama takes office: Economy shrinks at quarterly SAAR's of up to 7%. Economy sheds up to 780K jobs per month.

Year+ after Stimulus passes: Economy growing at an average rate of about 3% over the last year, private sector job creation positive for more than 1/2 a year.

Of course, you knew all of this already and ignored it...again. And again. Better to stick to talking points.

 

[rightwinger]

Wow, I give them weeks to study and the Progressives all fail to show up. Do you know why? It's because the only reason FDR is labeled "Great" was for advancing Socialism (aka: Progressivism) and not for any good he did to the economy.

If FDR and the New Deal did any good for the economy, I'd be desperately trying to find a way to respond to the Progressives. Instead, the truth melts them like Dracula to the new dawn or water to the Wicked Witch.

Obama's New Deal is as big a fail as FDR's and this time we can see it for ourselves without the filter of the lying LMSM.

Anytime anyone of you Progressives feel like you have an answer you can post it here.

Four years preceeding FDR taking office: Economy loses 40% + of it's productive value. Unemployment rises to over 25%.

Four years after FDR passes the first reforms of the New Deal: Economy grows at pace not seen before or since. Unemployment is reduced to 15%.

Year before Obama takes office: Economy shrinks at quarterly SAAR's of up to 7%. Economy sheds up to 780K jobs per month.

Year+ after Stimulus passes: Economy growing at an average rate of about 3% over the last year, private sector job creation positive for more than 1/2 a year.

Of course, you knew all of this already and ignored it...again. And again. Better to stick to talking points.

It doesn't matter

Frankie will ignore it and keep bumping his thread in attempting to troll liberals

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wow, I give them weeks to study and the Progressives all fail to show up. Do you know why? It's because the only reason FDR is labeled "Great" was for advancing Socialism (aka: Progressivism) and not for any good he did to the economy.

If FDR and the New Deal did any good for the economy, I'd be desperately trying to find a way to respond to the Progressives. Instead, the truth melts them like Dracula to the new dawn or water to the Wicked Witch.

Obama's New Deal is as big a fail as FDR's and this time we can see it for ourselves without the filter of the lying LMSM.

Anytime anyone of you Progressives feel like you have an answer you can post it here.

Four years preceeding FDR taking office: Economy loses 40% + of it's productive value. Unemployment rises to over 25%.

Four years after FDR passes the first reforms of the New Deal: Economy grows at pace not seen before or since. Unemployment is reduced to 15%.

Year before Obama takes office: Economy shrinks at quarterly SAAR's of up to 7%. Economy sheds up to 780K jobs per month.

Year+ after Stimulus passes: Economy growing at an average rate of about 3% over the last year, private sector job creation positive for more than 1/2 a year.

Of course, you knew all of this already and ignored it...again. And again. Better to stick to talking points.

Hoover and FDR were the same people economically.

Hoover was Harding's Sec Tres and tried to convince him that Big Gubbamint spending and taxes and Soviet Style central planning were the way to go and Harding told him (like we should have told Hoover, FDR, LBJ and Obama) to STFU and sit in the corner. That's if we were educated and were told the truth once in a great while about the economic performance of Harding vs the Hoover/FDR Progressive Tag Team.

Two years after Harding takes office and cuts government spending unemployment plummets from 12% down to 3%.

I'll put that up against anything Obama and Hoover/FDR ever did to advance the Progressive (Socialist) agenda!

 

[8537]

Hoover and FDR were the same people economically.

That's hilarious! Tell me about Hoover's policies to shore up the financial sector, Frank.

Two years after Harding takes office and cuts government spending unemployment plummets for 12% down to 3%.

Post-war recessions happen like that fairly frequently. In fact, it happened again in 1946.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hoover and FDR were the same people economically.

That's hilarious! Tell me about Hoover's policies to shore up the financial sector, Frank.

Two years after Harding takes office and cuts government spending unemployment plummets for 12% down to 3%.

Post-war recessions happen like that fairly frequently. In fact, it happened again in 1946.

Should I tell you how Hoover reacted to Pearl Harbor as well? Hahha! I'm so funny!

Hoover and FDR read from the same economic playbook: Washington DC knows all, tells all and the reality is that FDR was as big a fail as Hoover.

After 5 whole years of revamping the economy, knocking the stuffing out of the Constitution, we're still 15% unemployed, and that's "Great"? And then the year after FDR outlaws hemp unemployment shoots back up another 4%.

Yes, we need more direction and spending from Washington, DC, just like we need more Stimulus from Obama.

You can't get away with it anymore.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wow, I give them weeks to study and the Progressives all fail to show up. Do you know why? It's because the only reason FDR is labeled "Great" was for advancing Socialism (aka: Progressivism) and not for any good he did to the economy.

If FDR and the New Deal did any good for the economy, I'd be desperately trying to find a way to respond to the Progressives. Instead, the truth melts them like Dracula to the new dawn or water to the Wicked Witch.

Obama's New Deal is as big a fail as FDR's and this time we can see it for ourselves without the filter of the lying LMSM.

Anytime anyone of you Progressives feel like you have an answer you can post it here.

Four years preceeding FDR taking office: Economy loses 40% + of it's productive value. Unemployment rises to over 25%.

Four years after FDR passes the first reforms of the New Deal: Economy grows at pace not seen before or since. Unemployment is reduced to 15%.

Year before Obama takes office: Economy shrinks at quarterly SAAR's of up to 7%. Economy sheds up to 780K jobs per month.

Year+ after Stimulus passes: Economy growing at an average rate of about 3% over the last year, private sector job creation positive for more than 1/2 a year.

Of course, you knew all of this already and ignored it...again. And again. Better to stick to talking points.

It doesn't matter

Frankie will ignore it and keep bumping his thread in attempting to troll liberals

You know, the only person who even came up with an answer so far was 8537!

If FDR was so great why weren't you able to instantly answer the question or refute anything I've posted? Hmm?

What are you going to say, "Ditto 8537"

 

[johnrocks]

Hoover and FDR were the same people economically.

That's hilarious! Tell me about Hoover's policies to shore up the financial sector, Frank.

Two years after Harding takes office and cuts government spending unemployment plummets for 12% down to 3%.

Post-war recessions happen like that fairly frequently. In fact, it happened again in 1946.

I don't think he was exactly FDR but he wasn't free market like he was portrayed either.

Emergency Relief and Construction Act which was the Nation's first Federal UE assistance was signed into law by Hoover.

Division of Public Construction was created under his direction in 1929.

Signed the Federal Home Loan Bank Act which created the Federal Home Loan Bank system to assist citizens in obtaining financing to purchase a home.

Agricultural Marketing Act was signed which was subsidies for farmers.

Established the Emergency Relief Organization

Signed the Reconstruction Finance Act which established the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, which made loans to the states for public works and unemployment relief.

Raised tariffs by signing Smoot-Hawley.

Signed into law the Revenue Act of 1932 which was one of the largest tax increases in US history.

All this got Rexford Tugwell to say "practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."



He may not have been a clone of FDR but he wasn't one of us either bro.

 

[8537]

Hoover and FDR were the same people economically.

That's hilarious! Tell me about Hoover's policies to shore up the financial sector, Frank.

Two years after Harding takes office and cuts government spending unemployment plummets for 12% down to 3%.

Post-war recessions happen like that fairly frequently. In fact, it happened again in 1946.

Should I tell you how Hoover reacted to Pearl Harbor as well? Hahha! I'm so funny!

No, I'd rather you stay on topic long enough to explain the similarities between Hoover's treatment of the financial sector and that of FDR's. Come on Frank, I know you can do it!

Hoover and FDR read from the same economic playbook: Washington DC knows all, tells all and the reality is that FDR was as big a fail as Hoover.

See, you can repeat that over and over but this little factoid will continue to get in the way:

Four years preceeding FDR taking office: Economy loses 40% + of it's productive value. Unemployment rises to over 25%.

Four years after FDR passes the first reforms of the New Deal: Economy grows at pace not seen before or since. Unemployment is reduced to 15%.

After 5 whole years of revamping the economy, knocking the stuffing out of the Constitution, we're still 15% unemployed, and that's "Great"? And then the year after FDR outlaws hemp unemployment shoots back up another 4%.

is 15% great? No. Is it far superior to 25%? you bet your ass it is.

 

[8537]

Hoover and FDR were the same people economically.

That's hilarious! Tell me about Hoover's policies to shore up the financial sector, Frank.

Two years after Harding takes office and cuts government spending unemployment plummets for 12% down to 3%.

Post-war recessions happen like that fairly frequently. In fact, it happened again in 1946.

I don't think he was exactly FDR but he wasn't free market like he was portrayed either.

Emergency Relief and Construction Act which was the Nation's first Federal UE assistance was signed into law by Hoover.

Division of Public Construction was created under his direction in 1929.

Signed the Federal Home Loan Bank Act which created the Federal Home Loan Bank system to assist citizens in obtaining financing to purchase a home.

Agricultural Marketing Act was signed which was subsidies for farmers.

Established the Emergency Relief Organization

Signed the Reconstruction Finance Act which established the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, which made loans to the states for public works and unemployment relief.

Raised tariffs by signing Smoot-Hawley.

Signed into law the Revenue Act of 1932 which was one of the largest tax increases in US history.

All this got Rexford Tugwell to say "practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."



He may not have been a clone of FDR but he wasn't one of us either bro.

I'm not claiming Hoover was a laissez faire capitalist. He was very pro-regulation as commerce secretary and he brought that to his presidency as well.

I'm claiming he was an idiot

But more seriously, Hoover's problem was that he listened to Mellon etal and was convinced not to stabilize the banking sector. four years and 4,000 banks later, bank failures were stopped almost instantaneously and private investment flowed back into the economy.

in other words, Hoover wasn't "one of you" or "on of me". He was just bad at his job.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That's hilarious! Tell me about Hoover's policies to shore up the financial sector, Frank.



Post-war recessions happen like that fairly frequently. In fact, it happened again in 1946.

Should I tell you how Hoover reacted to Pearl Harbor as well? Hahha! I'm so funny!

No, I'd rather you stay on topic long enough to explain the similarities between Hoover's treatment of the financial sector and that of FDR's. Come on Frank, I know you can do it!

Hoover and FDR read from the same economic playbook: Washington DC knows all, tells all and the reality is that FDR was as big a fail as Hoover.

See, you can repeat that over and over but this little factoid will continue to get in the way:

Four years preceeding FDR taking office: Economy loses 40% + of it's productive value. Unemployment rises to over 25%.

Four years after FDR passes the first reforms of the New Deal: Economy grows at pace not seen before or since. Unemployment is reduced to 15%.

After 5 whole years of revamping the economy, knocking the stuffing out of the Constitution, we're still 15% unemployed, and that's "Great"? And then the year after FDR outlaws hemp unemployment shoots back up another 4%.

is 15% great? No. Is it far superior to 25%? you bet your ass it is.

How many times can you pretend that Hoover and FDR were radically different? Hoover blasted a massive hole in the economy and FDR filled it by turning it into a latrine.

And yes, revamping the entire US economy, instituting Socialism, controlling the banks, all for a 2%/annual decrease in unemployment over 5 year sucks out loud.

That's not GREAT, not at all, not even close.

 

[8537]

How many times can you pretend that Hoover and FDR were radically different? Hoover blasted a massive hole in the economy and FDR filled it by turning it into a latrine.

1. Hoover didn't create the massive hole in the economy.
2. I never said "Hoover and FDR were radically different". As a matter of fact, I was pretty clear about one of the primary areas of their disagreement - if you'd read my post above, you might see that. Hoover also didn't believe in direct assistance, and FDR obviously DID. So that's another area of disagreement.

Plus, I have it on good authority that Hoover was a tighty-whitey guy while FDR wore boxers.

Do you think Bush did a shitty job because he didn't even reduce unemployment 2% annually?

Keep ignoring the growth in the economy under FDR, Frank. It demonstrates the absurdity of your claims.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The correct answering on the banks is that the relatively new Federal Reserve (1913) had the economic blood on their hands and that the citizens of normal, educated country would have burned the Fed to the ground sometime in the early 1930's.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How many times can you pretend that Hoover and FDR were radically different? Hoover blasted a massive hole in the economy and FDR filled it by turning it into a latrine.

1. Hoover didn't create the massive hole in the economy.
2. I never said "Hoover and FDR were radically different". As a matter of fact, I was pretty clear about one of the primary areas of their disagreement - if you'd read my post above, you might see that. Hoover also didn't believe in direct assistance, and FDR obviously DID. So that's another area of disagreement.

Plus, I have it on good authority that Hoover was a tighty-whitey guy while FDR wore boxers.

Do you think Bush did a shitty job because he didn't even reduce unemployment 2% annually?

Keep ignoring the growth in the economy under FDR, Frank. It demonstrates the absurdity of your claims.

Bush was a fuck up of historic proportions and I never forgave him because instead of closing the Department of Education, he let Ted Kennedy "reform" it.

I'm not ignoring the growth under FDR, I'm saying that his greatness was the institutionalization of the Progressive agenda (Central Planning, Central Bank) and not because he was an economic miracle worker, rescuing free enterprise from itself (sounds like Dubya)

 

[8537]

The correct answering on the banks is that the relatively new Federal Reserve (1913) had the economic blood on their hands and that the citizens of normal, educated country would have burned the Fed to the ground sometime in the early 1930's.

you need to make up your mind: Was it Hoover who blew the hole in the economy, or was it the Fed?