The Imaginary Greatness of FDR

[8537]

The wartime economy actually put people back to work or in the Army, the FDR New Deal did nothing of the sort.

What would you make of an effort to end a recession that involved running up massive deficits and hiring people to dig deep holes (either here or abroad), only to fill in those holes again years later? An effort that involved putting a million or more people into nonmarket jobs?

A waste of time, effort and money guaranteed to keep unemployment around 20% for a decade.

Well that's funny, Frank. Because just a couple posts ago you stated that it ended the Depression.

 

[8537]

I didn't ignore it.

I said FDR increased the government portion of GDP by 50% over the years you claim as great and yet somehow unemployment still averages 20% over the same time period.

Did you fail statistics? "unemployment still averages over 20% over the same time period?" it's not the average that matters, it's the trend. The trend was from 25% to 15% - a 40% reduction in unemployment. He started at 25%.

 

[johnrocks]

And thanks to 8537, we've brought up another great Progressive lie, perhaps one of the greatest on par with FDR's economic "Greatness" that is, that Hoover was a laissez faire Capitalist when he was nothing of the sort.

It is well established that Herbert Hoover, as Secretary of Commerce under both Harding and Coolidge, was known for his laissez-faire polices that characterized the twenties.

How was he laissez faire

 

[CrusaderFrank]

And thanks to 8537, we've brought up another great Progressive lie, perhaps one of the greatest on par with FDR's economic "Greatness" that is, that Hoover was a laissez faire Capitalist when he was nothing of the sort.

It is well established that Herbert Hoover, as Secretary of Commerce under both Harding and Coolidge, was known for his laissez-faire polices that characterized the twenties.

It's even more well known that Progressives are liars, lie about virtually everything and one of their Biggest of all Progressive Lies is that Hoover was a free market advocate. It's a lie that would make Goebbels proud.

Here's how your Bible defines the term.

"In economics, laissez-faire (English pronunciation: /ˌlɛseɪˈfɛər/ ( listen), French: [lɛsefɛʁ] ( listen)) describes an environment in which transactions between private parties are free from state intervention, including restrictive regulations, taxes, tariffs and enforced monopolies.

The phrase is French and literally means "let do", but it broadly implies "let it be", or "leave it alone."

Laissez-faire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Was Smoot-Hawley Laissez-faire? Were the 40-percent tariffs?

Was the Democratic majority was elected to Congress in 1930 know for Laissez-faire economics?

Was the tax increases in 1932? The top income-tax rate went from 25 percent to 63 percent!! You have to be a total liar to call that Laissez-faire!

Hoover was no more a practitioner of Laissez-faire economics then I'm a hobbit. But it is one of the most oft-repeated Lies in all of Progressivism

What exactly about Hoover made him Laissez-faire?

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

His very effective Boss, President Harding was a laissez faire Capitalist.

Adequate railroad transportation service both for the present and future can be furnished more certainly....under proper regulation and control.

--Herbert Hoover's Republican Platform of 1928.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What would you make of an effort to end a recession that involved running up massive deficits and hiring people to dig deep holes (either here or abroad), only to fill in those holes again years later? An effort that involved putting a million or more people into nonmarket jobs?

A waste of time, effort and money guaranteed to keep unemployment around 20% for a decade.

Well that's funny, Frank. Because just a couple posts ago you stated that it ended the Depression.

Um, no. WWII ended the Great Depression.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I didn't ignore it.

I said FDR increased the government portion of GDP by 50% over the years you claim as great and yet somehow unemployment still averages 20% over the same time period.

Did you fail statistics? "unemployment still averages over 20% over the same time period?" it's not the average that matters, it's the trend. The trend was from 25% to 15% - a 40% reduction in unemployment. He started at 25%.

Did you fail logic?

How is a 2%/per annum drop over 5 years great? How?

And then it just spikes up again immediately after the "Greatness" only to be solved by the biggest military conflict in human history.

That's why we needed to trash the Constitution, threaten to pack SCOTUS and the completely rework the American economy, for 2% decrease per annum? That's it?

If anyone today campaigned on a platform that said "Give me 5 years and I'll have unemployment down to 15%", they only get votes from ACORN and cemeteries

 

[CrusaderFrank]

His very effective Boss, President Harding was a laissez faire Capitalist.

Adequate railroad transportation service both for the present and future can be furnished more certainly....under proper regulation and control.

--Herbert Hoover's Republican Platform of 1928.

Are you trying to embarrass yourself?

Go read the definition of laissez faire.

 

[johnrocks]

When 8 million men were taken out of the work force and put in the military, naturally, unemployment would fall but the economy was far from healthy until AFTER the war, when the men came home,baby boom happened, people manufactured and bought things, etc.

 

[8537]

A waste of time, effort and money guaranteed to keep unemployment around 20% for a decade.

Well that's funny, Frank. Because just a couple posts ago you stated that it ended the Depression.

Um, no. WWII ended the Great Depression.

Yes, a program that involved running up massive deficits and hiring people to dig deep holes and shoot at people in other countries, hiring people to build the shovels and the guns, only to fill in those holes again years later. An effort that involved putting a million or more people into nonmarket jobs.

Keynesian prescriptions, on destructive steroids. Otherwise known as WW2.

 

[8537]

I didn't ignore it.

I said FDR increased the government portion of GDP by 50% over the years you claim as great and yet somehow unemployment still averages 20% over the same time period.

Did you fail statistics? "unemployment still averages over 20% over the same time period?" it's not the average that matters, it's the trend. The trend was from 25% to 15% - a 40% reduction in unemployment. He started at 25%.

Did you fail logic?

How is a 2%/per annum drop over 5 years great? How?

Well, let's see - it's better than Reagan. It's better than either Bush. Come to think of it - how it bad, Frank? (and it was four years, not five)

And then it just spikes up again immediately after the "Greatness" only to be solved by the biggest military conflict in human history.

Indeed, it spiked up again when the New Deal was overturned and the government tried fiscal austerity. Sounds vaguely familiar, no?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Well that's funny, Frank. Because just a couple posts ago you stated that it ended the Depression.

Um, no. WWII ended the Great Depression.

Yes, a program that involved running up massive deficits and hiring people to dig deep holes and shoot at people in other countries, hiring people to build the shovels and the guns, only to fill in those holes again years later. An effort that involved putting a million or more people into nonmarket jobs.

Keynesian prescriptions, on destructive steroids. Otherwise known as WW2.

Yes, war as economic stimulus, Progressivism at it's level best.

Maybe Obama will get his National Security Force and formally declare war on the red states.

 

[johnrocks]

Well that's funny, Frank. Because just a couple posts ago you stated that it ended the Depression.

Um, no. WWII ended the Great Depression.

Yes, a program that involved running up massive deficits and hiring people to dig deep holes and shoot at people in other countries, hiring people to build the shovels and the guns, only to fill in those holes again years later. An effort that involved putting a million or more people into nonmarket jobs.

Keynesian prescriptions, on destructive steroids. Otherwise known as WW2.

That's what I don't get, cons saying WWll ended the GD, it is;as you say;' Keynesian prescriptions, on destructive steroids"

 

[8537]

When 8 million men were taken out of the work force and put in the military, naturally, unemployment would fall but the economy was far from healthy until AFTER the war, when the men came home,baby boom happened, people manufactured and bought things, etc.

no, no, no John! Killing people and blowing shit up is the fastest and most assured route to economic success!

That's why I say we need to bomb Mexico. And Iran. And Pakistan. (And maybe Oklahoma.)

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Did you fail statistics? "unemployment still averages over 20% over the same time period?" it's not the average that matters, it's the trend. The trend was from 25% to 15% - a 40% reduction in unemployment. He started at 25%.

Did you fail logic?

How is a 2%/per annum drop over 5 years great? How?

Well, let's see - it's better than Reagan. It's better than either Bush. Come to think of it - how it bad, Frank? (and it was four years, not five)

And then it just spikes up again immediately after the "Greatness" only to be solved by the biggest military conflict in human history.

Indeed, it spiked up again when the New Deal was overturned and the government tried fiscal austerity. Sounds vaguely familiar, no?

I worried for the longest time about starting a thread like this because it went against absolutely everything I was taught.

Thankfully, I have the facts and the confidence to state: "FDR was a miserable failure and the New Deal gave us an economy worse than the 7 Biblical Lean Years"

Fiscal Austerity worked in 1921, and then again, albeit to a far far far lesser degree when Newt controlled Congress.

When Palin is elected and starts shutting down and selling off whole government departments (Farmers Home, Tennessee Valley, Rural Electrification, Fannie, Freddie, HUD) we'll see how it works once again.

 

[mal]

Is that you, Karly?...



peace...

 

[johnrocks]

When 8 million men were taken out of the work force and put in the military, naturally, unemployment would fall but the economy was far from healthy until AFTER the war, when the men came home,baby boom happened, people manufactured and bought things, etc.

no, no, no John! Killing people and blowing shit up is the fastest and most assured route to economic success!

That's why I say we need to bomb Mexico. And Iran. And Pakistan. (And maybe Oklahoma.)

I have scratched my head at that logic so much that I should look like Einstein with an Art Garfunkel type receding hairline

 

[8537]

I worried for the longest time about starting a thread like this because it went against absolutely everything I was taught.

Thankfully, I have the facts and the confidence to state: "FDR was a miserable failure and the New Deal gave us an economy worse than the 7 Biblical Lean Years"

Well, you have the confidence. The facts, however, point to the most rapid economic expansion in US history. There's a word for that kind of confidence, Frank.

Fiscal Austerity worked in 1921, and then again, albeit to a far far far lesser degree when Newt controlled Congress.

"Fiscal austerity" = the end of a war.

When Palin is elected and starts shutting down and selling off whole government departments (Farmers Home, Tennessee Valley, Rural Electrification, Fannie, Freddie, HUD) we'll see how it works once again.

I didn't know newly elected dog catchers had such power.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I worried for the longest time about starting a thread like this because it went against absolutely everything I was taught.

Thankfully, I have the facts and the confidence to state: "FDR was a miserable failure and the New Deal gave us an economy worse than the 7 Biblical Lean Years"

Well, you have the confidence. The facts, however, point to the most rapid economic expansion in US history. There's a word for that kind of confidence, Frank.

Fiscal Austerity worked in 1921, and then again, albeit to a far far far lesser degree when Newt controlled Congress.

"Fiscal austerity" = the end of a war.

When Palin is elected and starts shutting down and selling off whole government departments (Farmers Home, Tennessee Valley, Rural Electrification, Fannie, Freddie, HUD) we'll see how it works once again.

I didn't know newly elected dog catchers had such power.

I need to know something.

Do you subscribe to the notion that FDR's New Deal saved America and Capitalism from the wretched excess of Hoover's laissez faire economic policies?

 

[8537]

I need to know something.

Do you subscribe to the notion that FDR's New Deal saved America and Capitalism from the wretched excess of Hoover's laissez faire economic policies?

No.

If you review this thread, you won't find me blaming Hoover for anything.