The Holocaust: Where Are All of the Bodies??

[Penelope]

3. So....where are the bodies of the Nazis' victims?
This is where we get into the history that is less than common knowledge.

The Nazis called it "Aktion 1005."


The Nazis knew what they had done was indefensible, and knowledge of same would cost them any possible leverage when they lost the war....so, they tried to wipe out the evidence of their crimes.




a. " “It seems that rumors of our activities in the east have started to reach the ears of our enemies. We’ve also got a problem with one of the sites in the Warthegau region. Complaints about contamination of some kind.”

“If I may ask the obvious question, Herr Gruppenführer, what difference does it make if rumors reach the West? Who would believe that such a thing was truly possible?”

“Rumors are one thing, Erich. Evidence is quite another.”
From the novel "A Death in Vienna," by Daniel Silva




" Operation 1005 was instituted by the Nazis to wipe out the traces of the mass murders they had perpetrated in Eastern and Central Europe. It began in mid-1942, when information concerning the mass slaughter of Jews and others by the Nazis first began to circulate in the West, and ended with the last days of the occupation .

.... units of Einsatzkommando 1005 were established in various geographical locations These units consisted of SiPO–SD members who organized and directed the operation, scores of German police guards and hundreds of slave laborers, mostly Jews,....


Because this operation was to be ‘Top Secret,' Berlin ordered that the slave laborers were to be murdered after the completion of the work in the area, and the German staff, who were sworn to secrecy, were not sent back to their units. As a result of this operation many mass graves were obliterated, making it impossible after the war to ascertain the exact extent of the Nazi crimes, especially in the Soviet Union and Poland."
AKTION 1005 EFFACING THE MURDER OF MILLIONS

I don't believe that for a minute.

1. Arad, Yitzhak (1984), "Operation Reinhard: Extermination Camps of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka" (Internet Archive), Yad Vashem Studies XVI, pp. 205–239 (26/30 of current document), "The Attempt to Remove Traces."
2. ^ Jump up to:a b Operation Reinhard: "The attempt to remove traces" (reprint) Nizkor.org 2012. Retrieved 5 June 2014.
3. ^ Jump up to:a b Davies, Norman (1998), Europe: A History (internal link) (also at Google Books preview), HarperCollins, ISBN 0-06-097468-0
4. Jump up^ International Katyn Commission (30 April 1943). "Commission Findings". Transcript, Smolensk 30 April 1943. Warsaw Uprising by Project InPosterum. Retrieved 5 June 2014.
5. Jump up^ Kużniar-Plota, Małgorzata (30 November 2004). "Decision to commence investigation into Katyn Massacre". Departmental Commission for the Prosecution of Crimes against the Polish Nation. Retrieved 5 June 2014.
6. Jump up^ Sturdy Colls, Caroline (22 January 2012). "Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust". BBC News Magazine. Retrieved 5 June 2014.
7. Jump up^ Evans, Richard J. (2008), The Third Reich at War (internal link) (also at Google Books preview), Penguin Books, p. 292, ISBN 978-0-14-311671-4
8. Jump up^ Wiernik, Jankiel (1945), A year in Treblinka (Fourteen chapters; digitized by Zchor.org), Verbatim translation from Yiddish (American Representation of the General Jewish Workers' Union of Poland), retrieved 5 June 2014, "The first ever published eye-witness report by an escaped prisoner of the camp."
9. Jump up^ Holocaust Encyclopedia (10 June 2013). "Treblinka". United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Retrieved 5 June 2014.

You can quote me whatever you want, I do not believe in the gas chambers , or the digging up of mass graves at Babi Yar, to burn the bodies. I guess if there are no bodies one must make up a story right.

What you really believe is evident.

And it's not pretty.

War is never pretty is it, esp. when they say 65 to 85 mil were killed.

 

[Valerie]

Auschwitz - a prison camp or a death camp US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Penelope]

Really, almost all Jews in Europe vanished in a six year period from 1939 to 1945. were did they all go? Never never land? So, where is this going? Israel is a fiction based on lies , yadda yadda. Would it make you happy if the Nazis had erased Judaism?

Really, almost all Jews in Europe vanished in a six year period from 1939 to 1945. were did they all go? Never never land? So, where is this going? Israel is a fiction based on lies , yadda yadda. Would it make you happy if the Nazis had erased Judaism?

Jewish insurgency in Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Of course some fought and died while fighting in the British and German armies, many fought in partisans groups either against the Soviets or against the Germans, and some went to the concentration camps of which some were executed , but the majority died due to starvation and typhus, and many also perished when we bombed the heck out of Berlin.

 

[Saigon]

Billc and P. Chic -

There are two kinds of posters -

- Those who want to understand the truth
- Those who only want to be proven right

Both of you are in the latter category, and that is why neither of you have a hope in hell of understanding this issue. Everytime the real answers are posted, you simply scream loud enough to block them out.

If at any point you would like to actually understand the issue, let me know and I'll explain it in as much details as you like, answer any questions, and recommend books I consider objective and balanced in their approach.

Personally, I don't believe either of you are capable of that, but I'd be delighted to be proven wrong.

 

[2aguy]

If at any point you would like to actually understand the issue, let me know and I'll explain it in as much details as you like, answer any questions, and recommend books I consider objective and balanced in their approach.

Personally, I don't believe either of you are capable of that, but I'd be delighted to be proven wrong.

Wow...how lucky we are to have you posting about us...your wisdom...compassion and understanding of people you feel you are superior too is truly inspiring...I don't know how to express just how truly, deeply I appreciate your knowledge and desire to educate us...am I dreaming...someone pinch me...

 

[2aguy]

This is dedicated to you Saigon...please enjoy...

Leftists become incandescent when reminded of the socialist roots of Nazism 8211 Telegraph Blogs

...Hitler told Hermann Rauschning, a Prussian who briefly worked for the Nazis before rejecting them and fleeing the country, that he had admired much of the thinking of the revolutionaries he had known as a young man; but he felt that they had been talkers, not doers. “I have put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun,” he boasted, adding that “the whole of National Socialism” was “based on Marx”...

Goebbels never doubted that he was a socialist. He understood Nazism to be a better and more plausible form of socialism than that propagated by Lenin. Instead of spreading itself across different nations, it would operate within the unit of the Volk.

So total is the cultural victory of the modern Left that the merely to recount this fact is jarring. But few at the time would have found it especially contentious. As George Watson put it in The Lost Literature of Socialism:

It is now clear beyond all reasonable doubt that Hitler and his associates believed they were socialists, and that others, including democratic socialists, thought so too.

The clue is in the name. Subsequent generations of Leftists have tried to explain away the awkward nomenclature of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party as either a cynical PR stunt or an embarrassing coincidence. In fact, the name meant what it said.

.

Marx’s error, Hitler believed, had been to foster class war instead of national unity – to set workers against industrialists instead of conscripting both groups into a corporatist order. His aim, he told his economic adviser, Otto Wagener, was to “convert the German Volk to socialism without simply killing off the old individualists” – by which he meant the bankers and factory owners who could, he thought, serve socialism better by generating revenue for the state. “What Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism failed to accomplish,” he told Wagener, “we shall be in a position to achieve.”

Leftist readers may by now be seething. Whenever I touch on this subject, it elicits an almost berserk reaction from people who think of themselves as progressives and see anti-fascism as part of their ideology. Well, chaps, maybe now you know how we conservatives feel when you loosely associate Nazism with “the Right”.

 

[2aguy]

Camp...here is Ludwig Von Mises...an economist...a famous one...who was also alive when the nazis were coming to power...and here is one paper where his understanding of them is discussed ...

Why Nazism Was Socialism and Why Socialism Is Totalitarian - George Reisman - Mises Daily

My purpose today is to make just two main points: (1) To show why Nazi Germany was a socialist state, not a capitalist one. And (2) to show why socialism, understood as an economic system based on government ownership of the means of production, positively requires a totalitarian dictatorship.

The identification of Nazi Germany as a socialist state was one of the many great contributions of Ludwig von Mises.

When one remembers that the word "Nazi" was an abbreviation for "der NationalsozialistischeDeutsche Arbeiters Partei — in English translation: the National Socialist German Workers' Party — Mises's identification might not appear all that noteworthy. For what should one expect the economic system of a country ruled by a party with "socialist" in its name to be but socialism?

Nevertheless, apart from Mises and his readers, practically no one thinks of Nazi Germany as a socialist state. It is far more common to believe that it represented a form of capitalism, which is what the Communists and all other Marxists have claimed.

The basis of the claim that Nazi Germany was capitalist was the fact that most industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands.

What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name onlyunder the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government.

For it was the German government and not the nominal private owners that exercised all of the substantive powers of ownership: it, not the nominal private owners, decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, and what dividends or other income the nominal private owners would be permitted to receive. The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners.

 

[2aguy]

This is one of the contortions the left has to go through to hide the fact that nazis, fascists and communists were the same thing...socialism...where the state controls the means of production...

For example...one way they dance is by describing fascism as...Totalitarianism + Capitalism...

There is no way those things exist together...since definitions are important to the left here, I will use their technique and use standard definitions to show why this is a stupid idea...

Capitalism...

CAPITALISM Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS

What is Capitalism?
Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights. Politically, it is the system of laissez-faire (freedom). Legally it is a system of objective laws (rule of law as opposed to rule of man). Economically, when such freedom is applied to the sphere of production its result is the free-market.

totalitarianism government -- Encyclopedia Britannica

totalitarianism, form of government that theoretically permits no individual freedom and that seeks to subordinate all aspects of the individual’s life to the authority of the government.

What part of individual rights and free markets comes close to being possible in a totalitarian socialist system...see the dancing they have to do to make that work...

 

[Saigon]

Wow...how lucky we are to have you posting about us...your wisdom...compassion and understanding of people you feel you are superior too is truly inspiring...I don't know how to express just how truly, deeply I appreciate your knowledge and desire to educate us...am I dreaming...someone pinch me...

Actually, yes you are.

Because in real life I suspect it is unlikely that you will bump into someone who is an expert in this area, and I'm at least expert enough to have published a half-dozen articles in international magazines on the topic. I know people who know more about it than I do, but I know to have read most of the major books on fascist theory, to have been to most of the key sites and talked with people who were themselves camp inmates, for instance.

If you happen to know someone more qualified to discuss fascism than I am, then go with what they have to tell you instead.

Alternatively, you can going back to spamming the thread with off-topic nonsense we both know you haven't read and don't understand.

 

[Ravi]

PC is sick, despite her second statement, because of those who come up with, which she accepts: "Also, just for the record, Nazism is the German term for NATIONAL SOCIALISM which is exactly what FDR & Obama are all about."

An informed 9th grader would easily refute PC's silliness.

Yep. Anyone that uses what happened to Jews under Hitler to advance her lies is sick.

 

[Dot Com]

PC is sick, despite her second statement, because of those who come up with, which she accepts: "Also, just for the record, Nazism is the German term for NATIONAL SOCIALISM which is exactly what FDR & Obama are all about."

An informed 9th grader would easily refute PC's silliness.

Yep. Anyone that uses what happened to Jews under Hitler to advance her lies is sick.

Sad, sad, SAD day for USMB

ANOTHER reason that PoliChic needs her own sub-forum so that new lurkers don't think the board entertains her hyper-partisan, zaniness

 

[PoliticalChic]

Billc and P. Chic -

There are two kinds of posters -

- Those who want to understand the truth
- Those who only want to be proven right

Both of you are in the latter category, and that is why neither of you have a hope in hell of understanding this issue. Everytime the real answers are posted, you simply scream loud enough to block them out.

If at any point you would like to actually understand the issue, let me know and I'll explain it in as much details as you like, answer any questions, and recommend books I consider objective and balanced in their approach.

Personally, I don't believe either of you are capable of that, but I'd be delighted to be proven wrong.

So......how come you ran away from the questions in post #81?

Wadda you....some kind of dunce???

Oh...right, already determined.

 

[Saigon]

P. Chic -

Please try and understand. The topic of this thread is what I do for a living; not always, but from time to time. It is an area in which I am somewhat of an expert, and I'm more than happy to provide details of what I mean by that, including publications in English that you can read for yourself.

However, I am not going to waste my time jumping through hoops for people who aren't even vaguely interested in the topic.

It takes a very special kind of closed-mindedness to have failed to understand that Fascism is inherently right wing. Personally, I doubt that kind of ignorance can be cured by facts and information alone, but if at some point you are interested in learning what everyone else already knows, I'm happy to answer any questons you may have, or point you in the direction of objective books from balanced sources.

 

[PoliticalChic]

P. Chic -

Please try and understand. The topic of this thread is what I do for a living; not always, but from time to time. It is an area in which I am somewhat of an expert, and I'm more than happy to provide details of what I mean by that, including publications in English that you can read for yourself.

However, I am not going to waste my time jumping through hoops for people who aren't even vaguely interested in the topic.

It takes a very special kind of closed-mindedness to have failed to understand that Fascism is inherently right wing. Personally, I doubt that kind of ignorance can be cured by facts and information alone, but if at some point you are interested in learning what everyone else already knows, I'm happy to answer any questons you may have, or point you in the direction of objective books from balanced sources.

You're an expert on the topic?

Proof not in evidence.

I think you're simply a dunce mouthing what others tell you to.

Still haven't answered post #81, dunce.

 

[Dot Com]

PoliHack!!!

You people might win some elections..... well..... local ones anyways

 

[PoliticalChic]

PoliHack!!!

You people might win some elections..... well..... local ones anyways

Why do you seem incapable of constructing a post actually related to the thread?

Oh...right....because you can't.

Carry on.

 

[2aguy]

Because in real life I suspect it is unlikely that you will bump into someone who is an expert in this area,

Well, you can explain that to my professors that they don't know about Facsism and communism because like you, they were wrong...you may be an expert...but you are still wrong...I have read on this subject for years, initially believing as you do that the nazis were the opposite from the communists but the more I looked at it the sillier it became to think that they were different...they are one and the same with superficial differences based on the country in which they were in...

Jump through all the hoops you have to to lie to yourself about the truth...that's on you...

Right wing...no...national socialism and international socialism are the same thing...socialism and left wing...a desire for the government to control the means of production...and the rest of society....where the communists see it as a step toward true communism...the national socialists couldn't care less...they both end in the same place...

And like other "experts" the idea that two ideas of freedom...one that advocates more freedom and the other that advocates more control by the state meet at the top of a circle and end with the same type of government...that too is silly...and yes, I have seen the 3 dimensional chart where they try to break down every aspect of right-left, economic and religious aspects of these societies and in the end...the straightest path to the truth is that the right represents limited government and more freedom while the left favors more government and less freedom of the individual in favor of the collective...

You are wrong Saigon...

Although I wouldn't mind adding your writings to my reading list...

 

[emilynghiem]

Not nearly enough bodies have been found to document the millions for whom the Nazis must answer. Where are those bodies?
So state some of those who deny that the Holocaust took place.

Here are some of the bodies:
Holocaust Controversies Mass Graves and Dead Bodies

If you want to debate numbers,
a more conservative estimate of the 6 million count was
4 million were Jews while 2 million were Catholics, gypsies, homosexuals, disabled or other "undesirables"

If you can't discuss without arguing,
here is one man Peter Loth who just focuses on Forgiveness
to heal people regardless of our views and backgrounds and beliefs we struggle with:
Welcome to Forerunnerministries.org

I think that is the best approach that includes everyone of all views
even if we cannot agree on what happened in the past,
we can agree it is better for our healing health and sanity to forgive first
and seek corrections afterwards in that spirit. Thanks PC, let's focus on healing
and all the other truth and corrections will surely follow when we work together and not against each other.

 

[2aguy]

Did some of the people posting here actually read what PoliticalChic posted....it doesn't seem like it from some of theses posts...

 

[whitehall]

Americans were in combat in Germany for about two years and yet about 80,000 American bodies are still unaccounted for even though America was acutely involved in keeping track of US servicemen. The Jewish Holocaust was ongoing for about a decade with the German regime deliberately hiding identities of their victims and covering up atrocities with secret burials and incineration techniques. It's insulting to humanity to question the legitimacy of the Holocaust.