The "Hasbara" claim to the posts here~ a question

[Phoenall]

Phoenall, et al,

I don't think this is possible.

Hamas murdered the 4 year old boy and no one else when they placed the rocket launch pad next to were he lived. Yes the evidence shows that hamas had fired over 200 rockets in the 6 months preceeding the murder of the 3 Israeli boys, it also shows that Israel responded to every one that escaped Iron Dome.
What have they to give when all hamas issue is demands that can not and will not be met. Israel has made the offers in the past and they are all along the lines of res 242 and Oslo, a structured lessening of violence and lifting of the blockade over a period of 18 months. All hamas has to do is stop all violence, terrorism and belligerence and Israel will respond by releasing the blockade slowly. All hamas wants is for Israel to give them access to superior weapons so they can attack Israel at a later date

(COMMENT)

HAMAS wants the blockades lifted so that they can more easily rearm with weapons supplied by Iran and funded by Qatar. They are not going to turn-about and adopt peaceful initiatives. They want their version of Palestine; absent Israel. And they won't stop until they get it. It is a cultural imperative for them to continue Jihad.

Most Respectfully,
R

Well that is the issue. I have read the leaders of Hamas were all born in Palestine and their families, well the key leaders so they also have strong roots. Who is right and who is wrong here. You can see both views, but Israel has been taking their land, building on it, fenced them in when they fought back, and now control their elect, water, and food intake. So what is the answer here.

Being born in a country does not mean that you have strong ties to that country, far from it. What palestinian
land would that be seeing as according to the UN Palestine is a nation in name only with no land ownership. The fence has saved the lives of thousands of Israeli's since its inception, and the Palestinians have complained to the UN that the fence has stopped them from murdering murdering children.

The answer is for the Palestinians to stop their terrorism, violence and belligerence and abide by res 242 and the Oslo accords

 

[Phoenall]

Palestinians want an end to the blockade because they are the only people, in the millions, that are ruled, oppressed and occupied because they do not belong to a particular religion. Once Israel realizes that behaving like their former oppressors, the Nazis, and ends the blockade and occupation there might be peace. Although there is no doubt that it will be difficult for the Palestinians to forgive what the Jews have done to them over several generations.

LIAR Palestine is blockaded because it was mass murdering Israeli children

 

[montelatici]

et al,

Again, there is a bit of exaggeration here. Look at this cleanly, clinically, and with some measure of precision.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

What are you talking about now? Hamas are firing from civilians, not open areas. Israel is retaliating at Hamas. Why don't you understand simple facts?

(COMMENT)

If the People of Gaza feel fenced-in, then they must also understand that it was a consequence of some action; some set of past behaviors that warranted the action.

There have never been any evidence of true WMD on the battlefield. This is simply an attempt by the poor Palestinian to draw sympathy from the wider international audience. The type and kind of weapon systems used by Israel is comparable to that of any other regional national military force.

The strategy, is not particularly new. Its origins come from Article 30 of the HAMAS Covenant:

Article Thirty:​

Writers, intellectuals, media people, orators, educaters and teachers, and all the various sectors in the Arab and Islamic world - all of them are called upon to perform their role, and to fulfill their duty, because of the ferocity of the Zionist offensive and the Zionist influence in many countries exercised through financial and media control, as well as the consequences that all this lead to in the greater part of the world.​

Jihad is not confined to the carrying of arms and the confrontation of the enemy. The effective word, the good article, the useful book, support and solidarity - together with the presence of sincere purpose for the hoisting of Allah's banner higher and higher - all these are elements of the Jihad for Allah's sake.​

This very same concept is articulated today in the Official HAMAS Position Paper:

Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.
​

It is not uncommon for outside observers, unaware that this is an component part of an organized Propaganda Effort more than two decades in the making, to lend sympathy to the regime of HAMAS. It is a very well funded effort by the same wealthy Arab Emirs that fund the Islamic State (AKA: ISIS); and keep Khaled Meshal in a very safe and lavish apartment suite in Doha.

Most Respectfully,
R

"If the People of Gaza feel fenced-in, then they must also understand that it was a consequence of some action; some set of past behaviors that warranted the action."

It was a result of having voted democratically for the Hamas political party. Israeli Jews wants to control every aspect the lives of the non-Jews they have control over, including who they vote for.

 

[montelatici]

Palestinians want an end to the blockade because they are the only people, in the millions, that are ruled, oppressed and occupied because they do not belong to a particular religion. Once Israel realizes that behaving like their former oppressors, the Nazis, and ends the blockade and occupation there might be peace. Although there is no doubt that it will be difficult for the Palestinians to forgive what the Jews have done to them over several generations.

LIAR Palestine is blockaded because it was mass murdering Israeli children

As far as the mass murder of children, it is the Israelis that are mass murdering Palestinian children, as everyone except a few Israel Firsters know quite well.

It is you who are constantly lying. The blockade was instated because the Palestinians in Gaza voted democratically for Hamas:

"The 2006–2007 economic sanctions against the Palestinian National Authority were economic sanctions imposed by Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East against the Palestinian National Authority and the Palestinian territories following the January 2006 legislative elections that brought Hamas to power.[37] In March 2007, the Palestinian Legislative Council established a national unity government, with 83 representatives voting in favor and three against. Government ministers were sworn in by Mahmoud Abbas, the chairman on the Palestinian Authority, in a ceremony held simultaneously in Gaza and Ramallah.....In June 2007 Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip[1] and removed Fatah officials. Following the Battle of Gaza, the international sanctions were terminated in June 2007 while at the same time a new and more severe blockade of the Gaza Strip was initiated."

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Phoenall]

Make a statement about what, of course I don't get paid. I have not derailed your thread, Daniyel did. I did the #2 post here.

Yes you did the #2 post, but in my mind you started the derailment in post #8

I

I believe it was post #9.

How can a direct reply to an off-thread topic posting be any worse than the post (#8) that prompted the response?
Don't become a lawyer.

I would never be a lawyer. His response changed everything.

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

Rockets were falling on Israel for months before the kidnapping and murder of the three teens. You weren't on this forum to see all the news about the Code Reds in Israel, and others wondering here why Israel wasn't retaliating.

What do you mean, there's nowhere to bomb without kids. Israel are targeting weapons stores and Hamas. The families and kids should not be around Hamas. Why are Hamas firing from civilian areas? There's plenty of open uninhabited space for Hamas to fire from. Hamas use human shields wherever they can.

Where are Hamas suppose to go, its the most densly pop. place on earth they say. Rockets falling for months, where is the source for this news.

Don't pull that old lie. There are plenty of open spaces for Hamas to base themselves, but Hamas are proud to state openly that they hide behind civilians and use them as shields.

The source for the news is all over the Israeli news and also on the Israel forums here from before you joined.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

That map is completely misleading as it omits all the smaller settlements and farms that link the major population centres. There's a lot less "open" space than that map implies. Get hold of Google Earth or look at Google Maps for a more accurate appreciation of the amount of "open space" available.

The picture from Google maps shows exactly the same view of gaza, that is 50% of the land is un occupied by human beings. Yes there are farms but nothing is grown in them because hamas wont allow them to be used for propaganda reasons

 

[Phoenall]

Make a statement about what, of course I don't get paid. I have not derailed your thread, Daniyel did. I did the #2 post here.

Yes you did the #2 post, but in my mind you started the derailment in post #8

I

I believe it was post #9.

How can a direct reply to an off-thread topic posting be any worse than the post (#8) that prompted the response?
Don't become a lawyer.

I would never be a lawyer. His response changed everything.

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

Rockets were falling on Israel for months before the kidnapping and murder of the three teens. You weren't on this forum to see all the news about the Code Reds in Israel, and others wondering here why Israel wasn't retaliating.

What do you mean, there's nowhere to bomb without kids. Israel are targeting weapons stores and Hamas. The families and kids should not be around Hamas. Why are Hamas firing from civilian areas? There's plenty of open uninhabited space for Hamas to fire from. Hamas use human shields wherever they can.

Where are Hamas suppose to go, its the most densly pop. place on earth they say. Rockets falling for months, where is the source for this news.

Don't pull that old lie. There are plenty of open spaces for Hamas to base themselves, but Hamas are proud to state openly that they hide behind civilians and use them as shields.

The source for the news is all over the Israeli news and also on the Israel forums here from before you joined.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

That map is completely misleading as it omits all the smaller settlements and farms that link the major population centres. There's a lot less "open" space than that map implies. Get hold of Google Earth or look at Google Maps for a more accurate appreciation of the amount of "open space" available.

So why don't Hamas fight from farms and open areas then?

because they are cowards and wont fight face to face, this is why the muslims use roadside bombs detonated from afar.

 

[Phoenall]

et al,

Again, there is a bit of exaggeration here. Look at this cleanly, clinically, and with some measure of precision.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

What are you talking about now? Hamas are firing from civilians, not open areas. Israel is retaliating at Hamas. Why don't you understand simple facts?

(COMMENT)

If the People of Gaza feel fenced-in, then they must also understand that it was a consequence of some action; some set of past behaviors that warranted the action.

There have never been any evidence of true WMD on the battlefield. This is simply an attempt by the poor Palestinian to draw sympathy from the wider international audience. The type and kind of weapon systems used by Israel is comparable to that of any other regional national military force.

The strategy, is not particularly new. Its origins come from Article 30 of the HAMAS Covenant:

Article Thirty:​

Writers, intellectuals, media people, orators, educaters and teachers, and all the various sectors in the Arab and Islamic world - all of them are called upon to perform their role, and to fulfill their duty, because of the ferocity of the Zionist offensive and the Zionist influence in many countries exercised through financial and media control, as well as the consequences that all this lead to in the greater part of the world.​

Jihad is not confined to the carrying of arms and the confrontation of the enemy. The effective word, the good article, the useful book, support and solidarity - together with the presence of sincere purpose for the hoisting of Allah's banner higher and higher - all these are elements of the Jihad for Allah's sake.​

This very same concept is articulated today in the Official HAMAS Position Paper:

Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.
​

It is not uncommon for outside observers, unaware that this is an component part of an organized Propaganda Effort more than two decades in the making, to lend sympathy to the regime of HAMAS. It is a very well funded effort by the same wealthy Arab Emirs that fund the Islamic State (AKA: ISIS); and keep Khaled Meshal in a very safe and lavish apartment suite in Doha.

Most Respectfully,
R

"If the People of Gaza feel fenced-in, then they must also understand that it was a consequence of some action; some set of past behaviors that warranted the action."

It was a result of having voted democratically for the Hamas political party. Israeli Jews wants to control every aspect the lives of the non-Jews they have control over, including who they vote for.

LIAR the separation barrier was put into place before hamas came to power, so stop blaming everything on hamas getting elected

 

[Penelope]

Make a statement about what, of course I don't get paid. I have not derailed your thread, Daniyel did. I did the #2 post here.

Yes you did the #2 post, but in my mind you started the derailment in post #8

I

I believe it was post #9.

How can a direct reply to an off-thread topic posting be any worse than the post (#8) that prompted the response?
Don't become a lawyer.

I would never be a lawyer. His response changed everything.

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

Rockets were falling on Israel for months before the kidnapping and murder of the three teens. You weren't on this forum to see all the news about the Code Reds in Israel, and others wondering here why Israel wasn't retaliating.

What do you mean, there's nowhere to bomb without kids. Israel are targeting weapons stores and Hamas. The families and kids should not be around Hamas. Why are Hamas firing from civilian areas? There's plenty of open uninhabited space for Hamas to fire from. Hamas use human shields wherever they can.

Where are Hamas suppose to go, its the most densly pop. place on earth they say. Rockets falling for months, where is the source for this news.

Don't pull that old lie. There are plenty of open spaces for Hamas to base themselves, but Hamas are proud to state openly that they hide behind civilians and use them as shields.

The source for the news is all over the Israeli news and also on the Israel forums here from before you joined.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

That map is completely misleading as it omits all the smaller settlements and farms that link the major population centres. There's a lot less "open" space than that map implies. Get hold of Google Earth or look at Google Maps for a more accurate appreciation of the amount of "open space" available.

So why don't Hamas fight from farms and open areas then?

Maybe that can be worked out, move your military and Minister of Defense camp to the town of Sderot and the rest of you move further north , then they won't be a threat to the citizens of Israel either, how does that sound??

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Make a statement about what, of course I don't get paid. I have not derailed your thread, Daniyel did. I did the #2 post here.

Yes you did the #2 post, but in my mind you started the derailment in post #8

I

I believe it was post #9.

How can a direct reply to an off-thread topic posting be any worse than the post (#8) that prompted the response?
Don't become a lawyer.

I would never be a lawyer. His response changed everything.

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

Rockets were falling on Israel for months before the kidnapping and murder of the three teens. You weren't on this forum to see all the news about the Code Reds in Israel, and others wondering here why Israel wasn't retaliating.

What do you mean, there's nowhere to bomb without kids. Israel are targeting weapons stores and Hamas. The families and kids should not be around Hamas. Why are Hamas firing from civilian areas? There's plenty of open uninhabited space for Hamas to fire from. Hamas use human shields wherever they can.

Where are Hamas suppose to go, its the most densly pop. place on earth they say. Rockets falling for months, where is the source for this news.

Don't pull that old lie. There are plenty of open spaces for Hamas to base themselves, but Hamas are proud to state openly that they hide behind civilians and use them as shields.

The source for the news is all over the Israeli news and also on the Israel forums here from before you joined.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

That map is completely misleading as it omits all the smaller settlements and farms that link the major population centres. There's a lot less "open" space than that map implies. Get hold of Google Earth or look at Google Maps for a more accurate appreciation of the amount of "open space" available.

So why don't Hamas fight from farms and open areas then?

Maybe that can be worked out, move your military and Minister of Defense camp to the town of Sderot and the rest of you move further north , then they won't be a threat to the citizens of Israel either, how does that sound??

Whatever for?
Wouldn't it be better if Hamas simply stops attacking Israel? Far simpler.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

I give you partial credit.

It was a result of having voted democratically for the Hamas political party. Israeli Jews wants to control every aspect the lives of the non-Jews they have control over, including who they vote for.

(COMMENT)

How HAMAS came to power is a domestic issue. Needless to say, the People of Gaza, popularly support HAMAS and all its baggage (the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the association with the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Iran’s Quds Force, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc) then and today. You can't popularly support a government of hostiles entities and not expect some consequence. The people made their choice. It was their choice to make. And now they complain that because the are a people who support terrorism, they are contained and quarantined.

They are all big boys and girls. They need to face the consequences. Quite whining!

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Penelope]

Make a statement about what, of course I don't get paid. I have not derailed your thread, Daniyel did. I did the #2 post here.

Yes you did the #2 post, but in my mind you started the derailment in post #8

I

I believe it was post #9.

How can a direct reply to an off-thread topic posting be any worse than the post (#8) that prompted the response?
Don't become a lawyer.

I would never be a lawyer. His response changed everything.

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

Rockets were falling on Israel for months before the kidnapping and murder of the three teens. You weren't on this forum to see all the news about the Code Reds in Israel, and others wondering here why Israel wasn't retaliating.

What do you mean, there's nowhere to bomb without kids. Israel are targeting weapons stores and Hamas. The families and kids should not be around Hamas. Why are Hamas firing from civilian areas? There's plenty of open uninhabited space for Hamas to fire from. Hamas use human shields wherever they can.

Where are Hamas suppose to go, its the most densly pop. place on earth they say. Rockets falling for months, where is the source for this news.

Don't pull that old lie. There are plenty of open spaces for Hamas to base themselves, but Hamas are proud to state openly that they hide behind civilians and use them as shields.

The source for the news is all over the Israeli news and also on the Israel forums here from before you joined.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

That map is completely misleading as it omits all the smaller settlements and farms that link the major population centres. There's a lot less "open" space than that map implies. Get hold of Google Earth or look at Google Maps for a more accurate appreciation of the amount of "open space" available.

So why don't Hamas fight from farms and open areas then?

Maybe that can be worked out, move your military and Minister of Defense camp to the town of Sderot and the rest of you move further north , then they won't be a threat to the citizens of Israel either, how does that sound??

Whatever for?
Wouldn't it be better if Hamas simply stops attacking Israel? Far simpler.

Well if Hamas should fight from the farms, I think its only fair they know where the Israeli military is, Don't you??

 

[montelatici]

et al,

Again, there is a bit of exaggeration here. Look at this cleanly, clinically, and with some measure of precision.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

What are you talking about now? Hamas are firing from civilians, not open areas. Israel is retaliating at Hamas. Why don't you understand simple facts?

(COMMENT)

If the People of Gaza feel fenced-in, then they must also understand that it was a consequence of some action; some set of past behaviors that warranted the action.

There have never been any evidence of true WMD on the battlefield. This is simply an attempt by the poor Palestinian to draw sympathy from the wider international audience. The type and kind of weapon systems used by Israel is comparable to that of any other regional national military force.

The strategy, is not particularly new. Its origins come from Article 30 of the HAMAS Covenant:

Article Thirty:​

Writers, intellectuals, media people, orators, educaters and teachers, and all the various sectors in the Arab and Islamic world - all of them are called upon to perform their role, and to fulfill their duty, because of the ferocity of the Zionist offensive and the Zionist influence in many countries exercised through financial and media control, as well as the consequences that all this lead to in the greater part of the world.​

Jihad is not confined to the carrying of arms and the confrontation of the enemy. The effective word, the good article, the useful book, support and solidarity - together with the presence of sincere purpose for the hoisting of Allah's banner higher and higher - all these are elements of the Jihad for Allah's sake.​

This very same concept is articulated today in the Official HAMAS Position Paper:

Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.
​

It is not uncommon for outside observers, unaware that this is an component part of an organized Propaganda Effort more than two decades in the making, to lend sympathy to the regime of HAMAS. It is a very well funded effort by the same wealthy Arab Emirs that fund the Islamic State (AKA: ISIS); and keep Khaled Meshal in a very safe and lavish apartment suite in Doha.

Most Respectfully,
R

"If the People of Gaza feel fenced-in, then they must also understand that it was a consequence of some action; some set of past behaviors that warranted the action."

It was a result of having voted democratically for the Hamas political party. Israeli Jews wants to control every aspect the lives of the non-Jews they have control over, including who they vote for.

LIAR the separation barrier was put into place before hamas came to power, so stop blaming everything on hamas getting elected

As usual I provided a link that supports my assertion. You need to read the link and if you disagree with the source state your case with proper back up links. But then, calling others liars is so much easier.

 

[Daniyel]

et al,

Again, there is a bit of exaggeration here. Look at this cleanly, clinically, and with some measure of precision.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

What are you talking about now? Hamas are firing from civilians, not open areas. Israel is retaliating at Hamas. Why don't you understand simple facts?

(COMMENT)

If the People of Gaza feel fenced-in, then they must also understand that it was a consequence of some action; some set of past behaviors that warranted the action.

There have never been any evidence of true WMD on the battlefield. This is simply an attempt by the poor Palestinian to draw sympathy from the wider international audience. The type and kind of weapon systems used by Israel is comparable to that of any other regional national military force.

The strategy, is not particularly new. Its origins come from Article 30 of the HAMAS Covenant:

Article Thirty:​

Writers, intellectuals, media people, orators, educaters and teachers, and all the various sectors in the Arab and Islamic world - all of them are called upon to perform their role, and to fulfill their duty, because of the ferocity of the Zionist offensive and the Zionist influence in many countries exercised through financial and media control, as well as the consequences that all this lead to in the greater part of the world.​

Jihad is not confined to the carrying of arms and the confrontation of the enemy. The effective word, the good article, the useful book, support and solidarity - together with the presence of sincere purpose for the hoisting of Allah's banner higher and higher - all these are elements of the Jihad for Allah's sake.​

This very same concept is articulated today in the Official HAMAS Position Paper:

Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.
​

It is not uncommon for outside observers, unaware that this is an component part of an organized Propaganda Effort more than two decades in the making, to lend sympathy to the regime of HAMAS. It is a very well funded effort by the same wealthy Arab Emirs that fund the Islamic State (AKA: ISIS); and keep Khaled Meshal in a very safe and lavish apartment suite in Doha.

Most Respectfully,
R

"If the People of Gaza feel fenced-in, then they must also understand that it was a consequence of some action; some set of past behaviors that warranted the action."

It was a result of having voted democratically for the Hamas political party. Israeli Jews wants to control every aspect the lives of the non-Jews they have control over, including who they vote for.

LIAR the separation barrier was put into place before hamas came to power, so stop blaming everything on hamas getting elected

As usual I provided a link that supports my assertion. You need to read the link and if you disagree with the source state your case with proper back up links. But then, calling others liars is so much easier.

The election of Hamas have nothing to do with the blockade, however its the continuing assaults from Gaza that made Israel seal the smuggling kings road of missiles and arms.

 

[Penelope]

Skyscrapers in Tel Aviv are far higher than 14 stories and they only have a maximum of 2 minutes to evacuate.

Before what??

 

[teddyearp]

This very same concept is articulated today in the Official HAMAS Position Paper:

Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.
​

It is not uncommon for outside observers, unaware that this is an component part of an organized Propaganda Effort more than two decades in the making, to lend sympathy to the regime of HAMAS. It is a very well funded effort by the same wealthy Arab Emirs that fund the Islamic State (AKA: ISIS); and keep Khaled Meshal in a very safe and lavish apartment suite in Doha.

Most Respectfully,
R

This is the only post in almost two pages that brushes on the actual topic of this thread. This shows that there is the "other" 'Hasbara'.

I would also like to thank the others who have actually answered my question; crystalclear and challenger. If I missed someone, sorry.

But Penelope has continued to sidestep the question, only saying in #46, "Statement about what . . . ." and then continued to derail this thread to oblivion. This thread is not about any blockade, who fired missiles first, when or why Hamas was elected, a map of the open spaces in Gaza, etc.; none of it.

So I must say that since Penelope has sidestepped the question and has been the main person to derail this thread, mayhaps she is a part of the

component part of an organized Propaganda Effort more than two decades in the making, to lend sympathy to the regime of HAMAS.

 

[Slyhunter]

Make a statement about what, of course I don't get paid. I have not derailed your thread, Daniyel did. I did the #2 post here.

Yes you did the #2 post, but in my mind you started the derailment in post #8

I

I believe it was post #9.

How can a direct reply to an off-thread topic posting be any worse than the post (#8) that prompted the response?
Don't become a lawyer.

I would never be a lawyer. His response changed everything.

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

Rockets were falling on Israel for months before the kidnapping and murder of the three teens. You weren't on this forum to see all the news about the Code Reds in Israel, and others wondering here why Israel wasn't retaliating.

What do you mean, there's nowhere to bomb without kids. Israel are targeting weapons stores and Hamas. The families and kids should not be around Hamas. Why are Hamas firing from civilian areas? There's plenty of open uninhabited space for Hamas to fire from. Hamas use human shields wherever they can.

Where are Hamas suppose to go, its the most densly pop. place on earth they say. Rockets falling for months, where is the source for this news.

Don't pull that old lie. There are plenty of open spaces for Hamas to base themselves, but Hamas are proud to state openly that they hide behind civilians and use them as shields.

The source for the news is all over the Israeli news and also on the Israel forums here from before you joined.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

That map is completely misleading as it omits all the smaller settlements and farms that link the major population centres. There's a lot less "open" space than that map implies. Get hold of Google Earth or look at Google Maps for a more accurate appreciation of the amount of "open space" available.

So why don't Hamas fight from farms and open areas then?

Maybe that can be worked out, move your military and Minister of Defense camp to the town of Sderot and the rest of you move further north , then they won't be a threat to the citizens of Israel either, how does that sound??

Whatever for?
Wouldn't it be better if Hamas simply stops attacking Israel? Far simpler.

Well if Hamas should fight from the farms, I think its only fair they know where the Israeli military is, Don't you??

They already know where Israel's military bases are. They purposely choose civilians targets instead.

 

[teddyearp]

Good Grief!!!

Can we all please stop the and .

I.E.: Penelope?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Skyscrapers in Tel Aviv are far higher than 14 stories and they only have a maximum of 2 minutes to evacuate.

Before what??

A rocket/shrapnel. Do you have to work hard at being like you are or does it come naturally?

 

[Coyote]

This new claim of posters here being a part of the Israeli "Hasbara" has my curiosity piqued.

How many here can with a clear conscious say without a doubt that they are not a part of the above named, nor any other organization that ever is or was the counter to said 'organization'?

I will and can always say that I post only from what I personally have researched. I am not paid nor influenced by anybody to post what I do. I challenge anyone else to be able to say the same with credulity.

Unfortunately, part of my personal 'credulity' test is rested upon the user name under which one posts here; and more so elsewhere.

I have been using the same user name for years and years on several forums sites, just so users can know that I am who I am. Please, please, please 'google' "teddyearp" so you know. I did a 'google' search on many of the other user names on this site and I found not much. Coyote? Hmm. Beezelbub? Nope. Most all of the others result in the same dead ends.

It pains me in a way to see that the only other poster here that I find _could_ be real (according to my test) is billo_really. Well and of course cereal_killer.

I'm not sure what you're asking. I've used Coyote for many years on a number of different boards though largely, this is the only one I post on anymore. The only different name I used was the first place I joined more than ten years ago maybe...? and that was Aussiedawgs. So, yes, I've been using the same user name for many years.

 

[Coyote]

This new claim of posters here being a part of the Israeli "Hasbara" has my curiosity piqued.

How many here can with a clear conscious say without a doubt that they are not a part of the above named, nor any other organization that ever is or was the counter to said 'organization'?

I will and can always say that I post only from what I personally have researched. I am not paid nor influenced by anybody to post what I do. I challenge anyone else to be able to say the same with credulity.

Unfortunately, part of my personal 'credulity' test is rested upon the user name under which one posts here; and more so elsewhere.

I have been using the same user name for years and years on several forums sites, just so users can know that I am who I am. Please, please, please 'google' "teddyearp" so you know. I did a 'google' search on many of the other user names on this site and I found not much. Coyote? Hmm. Beezelbub? Nope. Most all of the others result in the same dead ends.

It pains me in a way to see that the only other poster here that I find _could_ be real (according to my test) is billo_really. Well and of course cereal_killer.

I will swear an OATH before my god on a bible, torah, Koran or stack of money that I am not a member of any group or organisation akin to hasbara. If I Lie may my god strike me down were I stand.


Now can all of team Palestine care to make the same declaration.............

I can.