The "Hasbara" claim to the posts here~ a question

[Penelope]

Make a statement about what, of course I don't get paid. I have not derailed your thread, Daniyel did. I did the #2 post here.

Yes you did the #2 post, but in my mind you started the derailment in post #8

I

I believe it was post #9.

How can a direct reply to an off-thread topic posting be any worse than the post (#8) that prompted the response?
Don't become a lawyer.

I would never be a lawyer. His response changed everything.

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

Rockets were falling on Israel for months before the kidnapping and murder of the three teens. You weren't on this forum to see all the news about the Code Reds in Israel, and others wondering here why Israel wasn't retaliating.

What do you mean, there's nowhere to bomb without kids. Israel are targeting weapons stores and Hamas. The families and kids should not be around Hamas. Why are Hamas firing from civilian areas? There's plenty of open uninhabited space for Hamas to fire from. Hamas use human shields wherever they can.

Where are Hamas suppose to go, its the most densly pop. place on earth they say. Rockets falling for months, where is the source for this news.

Don't pull that old lie. There are plenty of open spaces for Hamas to base themselves, but Hamas are proud to state openly that they hide behind civilians and use them as shields.

The source for the news is all over the Israeli news and also on the Israel forums here from before you joined.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Make a statement about what, of course I don't get paid. I have not derailed your thread, Daniyel did. I did the #2 post here.

Yes you did the #2 post, but in my mind you started the derailment in post #8

I

I believe it was post #9.

How can a direct reply to an off-thread topic posting be any worse than the post (#8) that prompted the response?
Don't become a lawyer.

I would never be a lawyer. His response changed everything.

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

Rockets were falling on Israel for months before the kidnapping and murder of the three teens. You weren't on this forum to see all the news about the Code Reds in Israel, and others wondering here why Israel wasn't retaliating.

What do you mean, there's nowhere to bomb without kids. Israel are targeting weapons stores and Hamas. The families and kids should not be around Hamas. Why are Hamas firing from civilian areas? There's plenty of open uninhabited space for Hamas to fire from. Hamas use human shields wherever they can.

Where are Hamas suppose to go, its the most densly pop. place on earth they say. Rockets falling for months, where is the source for this news.

Don't pull that old lie. There are plenty of open spaces for Hamas to base themselves, but Hamas are proud to state openly that they hide behind civilians and use them as shields.

The source for the news is all over the Israeli news and also on the Israel forums here from before you joined.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

What are you talking about now? Hamas are firing from civilians, not open areas. Israel is retaliating at Hamas. Why don't you understand simple facts?

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

Again, there is a bit of exaggeration here. Look at this cleanly, clinically, and with some measure of precision.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

What are you talking about now? Hamas are firing from civilians, not open areas. Israel is retaliating at Hamas. Why don't you understand simple facts?

(COMMENT)

If the People of Gaza feel fenced-in, then they must also understand that it was a consequence of some action; some set of past behaviors that warranted the action.

There have never been any evidence of true WMD on the battlefield. This is simply an attempt by the poor Palestinian to draw sympathy from the wider international audience. The type and kind of weapon systems used by Israel is comparable to that of any other regional national military force.

The strategy, is not particularly new. Its origins come from Article 30 of the HAMAS Covenant:

Article Thirty:​

Writers, intellectuals, media people, orators, educaters and teachers, and all the various sectors in the Arab and Islamic world - all of them are called upon to perform their role, and to fulfill their duty, because of the ferocity of the Zionist offensive and the Zionist influence in many countries exercised through financial and media control, as well as the consequences that all this lead to in the greater part of the world.​

Jihad is not confined to the carrying of arms and the confrontation of the enemy. The effective word, the good article, the useful book, support and solidarity - together with the presence of sincere purpose for the hoisting of Allah's banner higher and higher - all these are elements of the Jihad for Allah's sake.​

This very same concept is articulated today in the Official HAMAS Position Paper:

Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.
​

It is not uncommon for outside observers, unaware that this is an component part of an organized Propaganda Effort more than two decades in the making, to lend sympathy to the regime of HAMAS. It is a very well funded effort by the same wealthy Arab Emirs that fund the Islamic State (AKA: ISIS); and keep Khaled Meshal in a very safe and lavish apartment suite in Doha.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

PS: how did you change my post?

There is plenty of places in gaza were there are no children, but that would mean putting the lives of hamas terrorists in danger. While they are being shielded by women and children they are very brave, take away their shields and you see the true cowardice of the hamas terrorist. Stop hamas from using human shields and you will see the numbers of dead children drop. But remember that hamas will line up all the children they have murdered and blame them all on Israel for the propaganda value.

 

[Kondor3]

...There is no where to bomb that are without kids...

Not true. Any updated satellite imagery of Gaza will show plenty of open spaces. But, let's say for argument's sake that you are correct. If true, then, I suggest a cessation to armed resistance, to spare the lives of those children. Or not. The choice is all up to Hamas.

 

[Penelope]

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

PS: how did you change my post?

There is plenty of places in gaza were there are no children, but that would mean putting the lives of hamas terrorists in danger. While they are being shielded by women and children they are very brave, take away their shields and you see the true cowardice of the hamas terrorist. Stop hamas from using human shields and you will see the numbers of dead children drop. But remember that hamas will line up all the children they have murdered and blame them all on Israel for the propaganda value.

I just watched a video of the 14 story building Israel blew up, it was a very tight shot, gave them 10 mins to get out of 14 story building, now anyone knows that is not enough time. for women and children to get out. Two bombs and the building just free fell. I say Israel has a problem , they should of never fenced them in. You don't fence people in.

Don ''t blame Hamas for the dead children, after giving them 10 mins to get out of the building , that showed in and of itself Israel could care less, and they also showed they t can zero in on targets very precise.

Israel has all the room, has top of the line weapons, air force, ships, its not a fair fight. What do you want all the Palestinians to walk out with their hands up? what do you think would happen??

When they left Gaza didn't everyone in Israel protest with long lines, in 05 or so. I really get the impression from what I read and posters here, Israel doesn't want any Palestinians in Israel period. The Palestinians have big families, so Israel is smart right, always bragging how smart they are , so killing the next generation (kids) is just find with them. In fact that is a long term plan in and of itself.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Skyscrapers in Tel Aviv are far higher than 14 stories and they only have a maximum of 2 minutes to evacuate.

 

[Phoenall]

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

LETS GET IT COMPLETELY RIGHT 3 Israeli boys get kidnapped by hamas and get shot multiple times. The IDF start rounding up known suspects as police forces all over the world do, some get aggressive and even attack the IDF so end up getting shot. Hamas declared war on Israel by firing over 200 rockets into Israel in the months leading up to the retaliation, Israel asked then to stop or face the consequences of returning fire. No evidence of any looting other than from LYING ISLAMOINAZI SCUM, showing that you will take their LIES over the truth any day.

What are you rabbitting about, hamas is all over gaza and are valid military targets according to customary international law.

Maybe they can throw them from the tops of buildings, hamas murdered quite a few hundred that way in 2006/2007.

Because they knew that Israel knew the boys were dead so knew it was a complete waste of time. About a month before the kidnappings hamas were talking about doing just this and were doing so publicly. Then 3 Israeli boys get kidnapped and Israel follows the rules and tells hamas no prisoner exchange release them or face the consequences. They know about who was in the car because they had forensic evidence from the boys phone and the car found later. They had a voice print that matched a known hamas terrorist and placed him at the scene of the murders. This alone was grounds to round up all known hamas members in the area for questioning and elimination from enquiries, and for getting as much information as possible. Now a hamas official has admitted that hamas did do it and it was a deliberate act of terrorism. The UN should get involved in the hunt for the killers and should encircle gaza with a ring of armour until they are given up, any rockets should get a single shell from each of the weapons in the ring surrounding gaza until they hand over either the men or the bodies.

 

[Kondor3]

...its not a fair fight...

Yes. Because every combatant nation, throughout history, including our own, has always been concerned first and foremost with the 'fairness' of a war rather than surviving and winning it. Puh-leeeze.

...What do you want all the Palestinians to walk out with their hands up? what do you think would happen?...

Peace would break out - although many would probably be expelled to Jordan, Lebanon, etc.

Wanna know what would happen if the Jews walked out with their hands up? Millions of Jewish corpses littering the beaches of the southeastern shore of the Mediterranean.

I don't think the Jews are willing to allow such a thing to happen twice within Living Memory.

 

[Phoenall]

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

Rockets were falling on Israel for months before the kidnapping and murder of the three teens. You weren't on this forum to see all the news about the Code Reds in Israel, and others wondering here why Israel wasn't retaliating.

What do you mean, there's nowhere to bomb without kids. Israel are targeting weapons stores and Hamas. The families and kids should not be around Hamas. Why are Hamas firing from civilian areas? There's plenty of open uninhabited space for Hamas to fire from. Hamas use human shields wherever they can.

Where are Hamas suppose to go, its the most densly pop. place on earth they say. Rockets falling for months, where is the source for this news.

Over 50% of gaza is unpopulated land, just take a look on Google maps. They can go to those places and take pot shots at Israel, and watch the Israeli's respond with deadly fire.

 

[Phoenall]

BTW Penelope, you mentioned that Israel killed 9 Palestinians. But you forgot to mention that they were killed during West Bank clashes where Palestinian idiots were throwing rocks, Molotov cocktails, at armed soldiers.
How stupid can someone be to throw anything at a soldier who's armed with an assault rifle. And then they start whining when someone gets shot. Their excuse is "he only threw a rock/Molotov cocktail! They don't do any harm!"
It's the same thing with Hamas launching rockets. Whenever they do so and Israel retaliates and Palestinians get killed, their excuse is "Hamas rockets barely do any harm or damage!"
Palestinian supporters are living on an alternate planet.

I know its so dumb for kids to throw rocks at soldiers with loaded weapons. Tell me why were those kid throwing rocks (stones) at the soldiers, perhaps the soldiers should of got out of throwing range. Does life mean anything at all to yous?

Not the soldiers being the belligerent aggressors but the young Palestinians so they should not have been throwing the stones in the first place . In the UK it is seen as attempted murder in certain places, and assault with a deadly weapon elsewhere. I believe it is a capital offence in the US as well

 

[Phoenall]

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

Rockets were falling on Israel for months before the kidnapping and murder of the three teens. You weren't on this forum to see all the news about the Code Reds in Israel, and others wondering here why Israel wasn't retaliating.

What do you mean, there's nowhere to bomb without kids. Israel are targeting weapons stores and Hamas. The families and kids should not be around Hamas. Why are Hamas firing from civilian areas? There's plenty of open uninhabited space for Hamas to fire from. Hamas use human shields wherever they can.

Where are Hamas suppose to go, its the most densly pop. place on earth they say. Rockets falling for months, where is the source for this news.

Another stupid post from Penelope,
1.'Where are Hamas suppose to go' doesn't mean they suppose to shot rockets or do anything violent.
Anti-war advocate should know that.
2.'Rockets falling for months' - Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Since Wikipedia is a 'Israeli media controlled open source' feel free to verify each and every rocket attack on the news, using Google.
3.'Densely populated' area shouldn't be a war zone in the first place, Hamas&co. continually fire rockets from this area, knowingly Israel would retaliate, Hebrew saying "think on the end before you begin" - its not Israel fault they didn't evacuate their people or made any step to secure their safety, Israel did all precautions and beyond, they hide among civilians, their fault.

Oh I'm sure Israel has been angels sinc

Any kind of assault/violence must be completely eradicated, later on you can negotiate and talk, trying to kill another 4 years old kid because they want to drive all non-Muslims from Israel is not a justified reason, and for that the penalty is death, and better be a quick one.

Like the bomb murdered the 4 year old boy, yes read the bomb murdered the 4 year old , what was he doing there. A Bomb does not murder but a bomb can kill. The wording yous use, like they aimed the bomb at the 4 year old.

Any kind of assault/violence must be completely eradicated, later on you can negotiate and talk,

and that is why I do not believe Hamas has been firing rockets since Jan, you would of been firing back, any chance you get your going to attack.

Your papers can't even keep their lies straight.

Now what has your gov. given in the talks. What has Israel given, anything at all?

Hamas murdered the 4 year old boy and no one else when they placed the rocket launch pad next to were he lived. Yes the evidence shows that hamas had fired over 200 rockets in the 6 months preceeding the murder of the 3 Israeli boys, it also shows that Israel responded to every one that escaped Iron Dome.
What have they to give when all hamas issue is demands that can not and will not be met. Israel has made the offers in the past and they are all along the lines of res 242 and Oslo, a structured lessening of violence and lifting of the blockade over a period of 18 months. All hamas has to do is stop all violence, terrorism and belligerence and Israel will respond by releasing the blockade slowly. All hamas wants is for Israel to give them access to superior weapons so they can attack Israel at a later date

 

[RoccoR]

Phoenall, et al,

I don't think this is possible.

Hamas murdered the 4 year old boy and no one else when they placed the rocket launch pad next to were he lived. Yes the evidence shows that hamas had fired over 200 rockets in the 6 months preceeding the murder of the 3 Israeli boys, it also shows that Israel responded to every one that escaped Iron Dome.
What have they to give when all hamas issue is demands that can not and will not be met. Israel has made the offers in the past and they are all along the lines of res 242 and Oslo, a structured lessening of violence and lifting of the blockade over a period of 18 months. All hamas has to do is stop all violence, terrorism and belligerence and Israel will respond by releasing the blockade slowly. All hamas wants is for Israel to give them access to superior weapons so they can attack Israel at a later date

(COMMENT)

HAMAS wants the blockades lifted so that they can more easily rearm with weapons supplied by Iran and funded by Qatar. They are not going to turn-about and adopt peaceful initiatives. They want their version of Palestine; absent Israel. And they won't stop until they get it. It is a cultural imperative for them to continue Jihad.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

PS: how did you change my post?

There is plenty of places in gaza were there are no children, but that would mean putting the lives of hamas terrorists in danger. While they are being shielded by women and children they are very brave, take away their shields and you see the true cowardice of the hamas terrorist. Stop hamas from using human shields and you will see the numbers of dead children drop. But remember that hamas will line up all the children they have murdered and blame them all on Israel for the propaganda value.

I just watched a video of the 14 story building Israel blew up, it was a very tight shot, gave them 10 mins to get out of 14 story building, now anyone knows that is not enough time. for women and children to get out. Two bombs and the building just free fell. I say Israel has a problem , they should of never fenced them in. You don't fence people in.

Don ''t blame Hamas for the dead children, after giving them 10 mins to get out of the building , that showed in and of itself Israel could care less, and they also showed they t can zero in on targets very precise.

Israel has all the room, has top of the line weapons, air force, ships, its not a fair fight. What do you want all the Palestinians to walk out with their hands up? what do you think would happen??

When they left Gaza didn't everyone in Israel protest with long lines, in 05 or so. I really get the impression from what I read and posters here, Israel doesn't want any Palestinians in Israel period. The Palestinians have big families, so Israel is smart right, always bragging how smart they are , so killing the next generation (kids) is just find with them. In fact that is a long term plan in and of itself.

Better than the 10 seconds Israelis get in Sderot then isn't it. They knew that the faced enemy fire as soon as the first rocket went up but the chose to ignore the danger. They caused themselves to be fenced in and can leave at any time they want, so they are not " fenced in " are they.
Why should we blame anyone else when hamas is in breach of at least 20 articles in the Geneva conventions amounting to war crimes and crimes against humanity.
It is not Israel that chooses war and violence but hamas, so hamas faces the might of a modern army. What they want is for the Palestinians to stop the terrorism, violence and belligerence and to live as equal partners with Israel. As shown in the west bank Israel will extend their expertise to the Palestinians and employ them in their factories as equals to any other workers.
When Israel left gaza in August 2005 it was along the lines of Oslo and the Palestinians had an obligation to match the Israeli actions by stopping all belligerence, instead they increased the rate of fire and proved they had no interest in peaceful co-existence. Israel has no plans of genocide or ethnic cleansing, just of being allowed to live in peace. It is the Palestinians that have it as their plan to wipe out the Jews and destroy israel

 

[Penelope]

Phoenall, et al,

I don't think this is possible.

Hamas murdered the 4 year old boy and no one else when they placed the rocket launch pad next to were he lived. Yes the evidence shows that hamas had fired over 200 rockets in the 6 months preceeding the murder of the 3 Israeli boys, it also shows that Israel responded to every one that escaped Iron Dome.
What have they to give when all hamas issue is demands that can not and will not be met. Israel has made the offers in the past and they are all along the lines of res 242 and Oslo, a structured lessening of violence and lifting of the blockade over a period of 18 months. All hamas has to do is stop all violence, terrorism and belligerence and Israel will respond by releasing the blockade slowly. All hamas wants is for Israel to give them access to superior weapons so they can attack Israel at a later date

(COMMENT)

HAMAS wants the blockades lifted so that they can more easily rearm with weapons supplied by Iran and funded by Qatar. They are not going to turn-about and adopt peaceful initiatives. They want their version of Palestine; absent Israel. And they won't stop until they get it. It is a cultural imperative for them to continue Jihad.

Most Respectfully,
R

Well that is the issue. I have read the leaders of Hamas were all born in Palestine and their families, well the key leaders so they also have strong roots. Who is right and who is wrong here. You can see both views, but Israel has been taking their land, building on it, fenced them in when they fought back, and now control their elect, water, and food intake. So what is the answer here.

 

[montelatici]

Palestinians want an end to the blockade because they are the only people, in the millions, that are ruled, oppressed and occupied because they do not belong to a particular religion. Once Israel realizes that behaving like their former oppressors, the Nazis, and ends the blockade and occupation there might be peace. Although there is no doubt that it will be difficult for the Palestinians to forgive what the Jews have done to them over several generations.

 

[Challenger]

This new claim of posters here being a part of the Israeli "Hasbara" has my curiosity piqued.

How many here can with a clear conscious say without a doubt that they are not a part of the above named, nor any other organization that ever is or was the counter to said 'organization'?

I will and can always say that I post only from what I personally have researched. I am not paid nor influenced by anybody to post what I do. I challenge anyone else to be able to say the same with credulity.

Unfortunately, part of my personal 'credulity' test is rested upon the user name under which one posts here; and more so elsewhere.

I have been using the same user name for years and years on several forums sites, just so users can know that I am who I am. Please, please, please 'google' "teddyearp" so you know. I did a 'google' search on many of the other user names on this site and I found not much. Coyote? Hmm. Beezelbub? Nope. Most all of the others result in the same dead ends.

It pains me in a way to see that the only other poster here that I find _could_ be real (according to my test) is billo_really. Well and of course cereal_killer.

This question is pointless because the paid Hasbarists will automatcally deny they are Hasbarists and vice versa. For my part I research historical topics that interest me as a hobby. I am particularly interested in the two World Wars and Antiquity in general. For me this Israel-Palestine thing is a bit of an aberration as I only began researching into it after witnessing the horrors of the Cast Lead operation in 2008. As an ex-soldier I know what exploding White Phosphorous looks like and I know what it can do. To see IDF spokespeople deny the IDF was using WP as an anti-personnel weapon when it clearly was, was insulting my intelligence and this and other PR blunders set me off looking into the conflict and this was the first time I really looked at the competing Israeli and Palestinian narratives. Weighing both with as much objectivity as I could summon, I eventually found the Palestinian narrative more credible.

Frankly I could not care less if you or anyone else choses to believe me or not, but nothwithstanding my opening comment, I accept your "challenge" and state unequivocally, I am not paid by anybody to post what I do. The only "influence" on me are those historians I have read on both sides of the argument; those I chose to believe over those I considered less than credible.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

This is not even close to the truth. Israel is both multi-cultural and multi-religious.

Palestinians want an end to the blockade because they are the only people, in the millions, that are ruled, oppressed and occupied because they do not belong to a particular religion. Once Israel realizes that behaving like their former oppressors, the Nazis, and ends the blockade and occupation there might be peace. Although there is no doubt that it will be difficult for the Palestinians to forgive what the Jews have done to them over several generations.

(COMMENT)

All I can say is, this is counter so the position HAMAS takes.

"We are not fighting Jews because they are Jews, but are fighting the Zionist Jews occupiers, the aggressors, and we will fight anyone who tries to attack us or usurp our rights or occupy our land, regardless of religion or affiliation, race or nationality."

---- Khaled Meshal​

This principle is, phrased differently, is to deny the Jews the right of self-determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Challenger]

Make a statement about what, of course I don't get paid. I have not derailed your thread, Daniyel did. I did the #2 post here.

Yes you did the #2 post, but in my mind you started the derailment in post #8

I

I believe it was post #9.

How can a direct reply to an off-thread topic posting be any worse than the post (#8) that prompted the response?
Don't become a lawyer.

I would never be a lawyer. His response changed everything.

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

Rockets were falling on Israel for months before the kidnapping and murder of the three teens. You weren't on this forum to see all the news about the Code Reds in Israel, and others wondering here why Israel wasn't retaliating.

What do you mean, there's nowhere to bomb without kids. Israel are targeting weapons stores and Hamas. The families and kids should not be around Hamas. Why are Hamas firing from civilian areas? There's plenty of open uninhabited space for Hamas to fire from. Hamas use human shields wherever they can.

Where are Hamas suppose to go, its the most densly pop. place on earth they say. Rockets falling for months, where is the source for this news.

Don't pull that old lie. There are plenty of open spaces for Hamas to base themselves, but Hamas are proud to state openly that they hide behind civilians and use them as shields.

The source for the news is all over the Israeli news and also on the Israel forums here from before you joined.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

That map is completely misleading as it omits all the smaller settlements and farms that link the major population centres. There's a lot less "open" space than that map implies. Get hold of Google Earth or look at Google Maps for a more accurate appreciation of the amount of "open space" available.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Make a statement about what, of course I don't get paid. I have not derailed your thread, Daniyel did. I did the #2 post here.

Yes you did the #2 post, but in my mind you started the derailment in post #8

I

I believe it was post #9.

How can a direct reply to an off-thread topic posting be any worse than the post (#8) that prompted the response?
Don't become a lawyer.

I would never be a lawyer. His response changed everything.

So are you calling me a Hag- short for Hagar I presume ? I think most of us here know what is going on, if not enlighten us. You can't keep killing children ! There is no where to bomb that are without kids. I am not a fan of Hamas but I understand their point. Israel is unwilling to give an inch. What have they (your gov.) given in the talks so far??

If Hamas want to declare war on Israel and bomb them with scores of rockets into civilian areas, knowing that Hamas knows the capability of Israel's proposed retaliation, why does Hamas force civilians to stay in the vicinity when they know that rocket launchers and rocket stores in Gaza will be targeted?

First get it right, 3 teens missing, Israel invades Palestine, arrests over 450, kills 9, and loots money and jewelry in pretense of looking for these teens, so get that right, Palestine never declared war on Israel, and we do not know for sure who killed those boys.

Yes they should send a note over to Israel Minister of Defense (whatever he is called) and tell them , hey bomb in the south east area, that is where we are at.

Maybe they can toss the children in the sea or throw them over that what 30' high fence. Right.

Tell me why Hamas never made a demand for exchange for prisoners for those teens which is what your PM said they would do. Tell me why 10 days before those teens were kidnapped they were talking about a bill in your gov about what they would do if asked for an exchange of kidnapped victims for prisoners. One says the deputy or someone " what would we do if 3 -14 year old girls were kidnapped, would we say we don't exchange prisoners for kidnapped victims? Sure enough 3 teens kidnapped 10 days later. Right away they then state there was a passenger in the car, how in the heck would they know that? Do or don't they have cameras in that popular place where teens are known to hitch hike?

I'm not one who believes in a lot of coincidences.

Rockets were falling on Israel for months before the kidnapping and murder of the three teens. You weren't on this forum to see all the news about the Code Reds in Israel, and others wondering here why Israel wasn't retaliating.

What do you mean, there's nowhere to bomb without kids. Israel are targeting weapons stores and Hamas. The families and kids should not be around Hamas. Why are Hamas firing from civilian areas? There's plenty of open uninhabited space for Hamas to fire from. Hamas use human shields wherever they can.

Where are Hamas suppose to go, its the most densly pop. place on earth they say. Rockets falling for months, where is the source for this news.

Don't pull that old lie. There are plenty of open spaces for Hamas to base themselves, but Hamas are proud to state openly that they hide behind civilians and use them as shields.

The source for the news is all over the Israeli news and also on the Israel forums here from before you joined.

And seems Israel knows where all the open spaces are. Why not put up white flags, here we are. People in a battle don't do that, exp. when they are fenced in. Israel is not fighting fair at all with their weapons of mass destruction.

That map is completely misleading as it omits all the smaller settlements and farms that link the major population centres. There's a lot less "open" space than that map implies. Get hold of Google Earth or look at Google Maps for a more accurate appreciation of the amount of "open space" available.

So why don't Hamas fight from farms and open areas then?