The Flag of Treason

[irosie91]

It wasn't an act of war, nimrod. Ft Sumter was SC territory. Firing on your own territory is not an act of war, period.

Title had passed to the US government.

"Title" means it's just a piece of property. Walmart is not a separate country. It's part of the state where I live. It has the same exact kind of "title" to the property it sits on as the federal government had with respect to Ft Sumter. It's part of South Carolina. Of course you will idiotically continue to post this already debunked claim because otherwise you will have to admit that the federal government made war on the State of South Carolina.

Actually RETARD the US Government is different then the State and while it may allow some state laws to be enforced reserves the right to make it that FEDERAL law applies to that property, go ahead and go to a US Base and READ the sign posted before you enter.

Wrong, turd, the federal government cannot treat the property of Ft Sumter differnt than it can treat the property of any other state. The federal government cannot just nullify state laws.

Your claim is 100% bullshit.

LOL a State has NO authority on Federal land EXCEPT what the Federal Government cedes to it. Try this dumb ass if a Military member commits a crime on federal property Federal NOT state authorities have jurisdiction and a Military Court determines the punishment.

That was a Federal claim at the time and one of the things that was thought to be a violation of States' rights. After secession the CSA was the federal government of SC.

Wrong the Constitution is clear the President and Congress CAN declare martial law and order troops to put down insurrection. If as you claim anyone at any time can simply declare they are no longer part of the US then there would be NO such clause as it would be meaningless.

Secession is not insurrection.

Nothing in the Constitution says that states cannot secede from the Union.

That ass whooping said you couldnt secede. Give it a rest. The south will never rise again.

Another idiot who doesn't get the point.

The point was that you inbreds lost the war. Now youre trying to make it seem like it was something noble. No. You just got your asses kicked and every since then its been one ass kicking after another.

My ancestors were never in the war, moron. They're Irish and Canadian immigrants.

The discussion here is about whether a state can secede. You aren't even participating in it. You're just making cracks from the sidelines.

"The discussion here is about whether a state can secede. "

The answer is emphatically "hell no". if you try again we will just beat your asses again. Move your ass back to europe if you want to secede.

But, at the time, it was still a question. It was still not clear.

The issue was settled by Brute force, not by facts and logic.

Good. Slavery was instituted by brute force. Not facts and logic.

Slaves in America were supplied by blacks in Africa.

So the white boy fable goes.... Thank goodness I learned that was a just another white boy fable like egyptians being white.

racially----egyptians were caucasoid -----and, in fact, so are "arabs" and even DRAVDIANS. You are very confused about race. It is not entirely dependent on
suntan lotion. The "people of color" BS has infected your brain. Update your library----that crap written by the "black studies" department in the state university was and is bull crap. You are a victim of
Leonard Jeffries clones

All the pictures Egyptians painted and the statues they carved show people with Caucasian features.

the "race" thing is very nebulous-----it seemed to be something like science in the 19th century and was measured by various parameters of which "hue of skin" was kinda minor. PHRENOLOGICAL parameters were more important. ------based on that stuff----the egyptians were caucasoid as are the Dravdians and real arabs (ie arabs native to arabia) AS to Melanin----it is not even a matter of HOW MANY MELANOCYTES----we all got them-----just a matter of HOW MUCH
melanin------some people are GOOD PRODUCERS OF MELANIN

 

[Asclepias]

To me Confederate flags honor family members who died honorably fighting bravely for a good cause.

Fighting against the United States of America and in support of maintaining slavery is a good cause?

The simple fact is that the South wanted to self govern. You can argue the reason they wanted to self govern until the cows come home, it really doesn't matter. They no longer recognized the authority of Washington DC just as the USA no longer recognized the authority of the Crown 80 years prior.

To state their cause was "wrong" is to state our cause was wrong in 1776, because they only difference is the USA won it's war for independence.

They were wrong, the reason they left was because of a perceived threat to Slavery when in fact they had as much clout in the Congress as they did BEFORE lincoln was elected and a President alone could not change the Constitution nor state laws. They were worried that 20 years down the line Free States would out number the slave states enough to effect slavery, and instead of fighting politically to prevent that they instead cut their own throats and ended slavery in 3 years not 20.

*Sigh* Read the post again - the REASON is irrelevant. They wanted independence and they fought for it. Same as we did in 1776. If they were "wrong", so were we.

the REASON is irrelevant.

You all obviously want that to be the case. That's what the lost cause bullshit was meant to do. To change the narrative.
Its not irrelevant. Not at all.
The reason, the self stated reason by the confederate states, is exactly why those monuments and statues are being removed.

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Apparently the negros didn't.

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

But you didn't answer the question: Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

Liar.
Your revisionist bullshit isn't gonna fly.

The war, for the confederacy was first and foremost about the preservation of their perceived racial superiority, slavery and the economic advanges thereof. As always, don't take my word for it. Take theirs.

There is nothing else. The fact that the average rube, not unlike yourself, never understood that is irrelevant to the fact that they were indeed fighting toward those ends.

Which of those self stated principles of the confederacy, racial superiority, slavery or the economic exploitation of said slaves through forced labor, deserve continued veneration in American society today?

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together.

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together

Derp....
The reason for the confederacy, fool. They weren't fighting to preserve the union. They were fighting to preserve their way of life.
The confederate states threatened civil war for years over the movement toward abolition. They started the war.

The federal were fighting to preserve the union, you fucking moron. No one said the Confederacy was. The were trying to secede.

How much of a dumbass can you be ?

Hey retard. The confederate losers started the war and they seceded.

Wrong. I have already proven they didn't. Lincoln invaded Virginia.

The only thing you've ever proven is that you are retarded. The confederate losers attacked Ft Sumter first on April 12, 1861 and got their asses beat down in the end.

Yes.....the democrat party fired on The United States, in order to keep Blacks as slaves.........you are correct. Lincoln, the Republican President said he would take no action against the democrat party, who declared separaton from the United States in order to keep Blacks as slaves. Then, the democrat party, being insane assholes that they are to this day, fired on the United States......and started the Civil War, in order to keep Blacks as slaves.

IKR? To think the southern strategy would forever move those very same democratic voters to the republican party is pretty amazing. Glad you agree.

It didn't....... you have been shown how that lie was created...and yet you still believe it....are you dumb, or do you just drink a lot?

Nixon’s Southern Strategy: The Democrat-Lie Keeping Their Control Over the Black Community | Black Quill and Ink


Ken Raymond
Jun 2011

Richard Nixon’s “Southern Strategy”, which the democrats say is the reason black people had to support them during the 1960′s–is a lie.

And it’s probably the biggest lie that’s been told to the blacks since Woodrow Wilson segregated the federal government after getting the NAACP to support him.
After talking with black voters across the country about why they overwhelmingly supports democrats, the common answer that’s emerges is the Southern Strategy.

I’ve heard of the Southern Strategy too. But since it doesn’t make a difference in how I decide to vote, I never bothered to research it. But apparently it still influences how many African Americans vote today. That makes it worth investigating.

For those that might be unfamiliar with the Southern Strategy, I’ll briefly review the story. After the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, most blacks registered as democrats and it’s been that way ever since.

And that doesn’t make any sense when you consider the fact that it was the democrats that established, and fought for, Jim Crow laws and segregation in the first place. And the republicans have a very noble history of fighting for the civil rights of blacks.

The reason black people moved to the democrats, given by media pundits and educational institutions for the decades, is that when republican presidential candidate Richard Nixon ran for president in 1968, he employed a racist plan that’s now infamously called the Southern Strategy.

The Southern Strategy basically means Nixon allegedly used hidden code words that appealed to the racists within the Democrat party and throughout the south. This secret language caused a seismic shift in the electoral landscape that moved the evil racist democrats into the republican camp and the noble-hearted republicans into the democrat camp.

And here’s what I found, Nixon did not use a plan to appeal to racist white voters.

First, let’s look at the presidential candidates of 1968. Richard Nixon was the republican candidate; Hubert Humphrey was the democrat nominee; and George Wallace was a third party candidate.

Remember George Wallace? Wallace was the democrat governor of Alabama from 1963 until 1967. And it was Wallace that ordered the Eugene “Bull” Connor, and the police department, to attack Dr. Martin Luther King

Jr. and 2,500 protesters in Montgomery , Alabama in 1965. And it was Governor Wallace that ordered a blockade at the admissions office at the University of Alabama to prevent blacks from enrolling in 1963.

Governor Wallace was a true racist and a determined segregationist. And he ran as the nominee from the American Independent Party, which was he founded.

Richard Nixon wrote about the 1968 campaign in his book RN: the Memoirs of Richard Nixon originally published in 1978.

In his book, Nixon wrote this about campaigning in the south, “The deep south had to be virtually conceded to George Wallace. I could not match him there without compromising on civil rights, which I would not do.”

The media coverage of the 1968 presidential race also showed that Nixon was in favor of the Civil Rights and would not compromise on that issue. For example, in an article published in theWashington Post on September 15, 1968 headlined “Nixon Sped Integration, Wallace says” Wallace declared that Nixon agreed with Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren and played a role in ”the destruction of public school system.” Wallace pledged to restore the school system, in the same article, by giving it back to the states ”lock, stock, and barrel.”

This story, as well as Nixon’s memoirs and other news stories during that campaign, shows that Nixon was very clear about his position on civil rights. And if Nixon was used code words only racists could hear, evidently George Wallace couldn’t hear it.

Among the southern states, George Wallace won Arkansas , Mississippi , Alabama , Georgia and Louisiana . Nixon won North Carolina , South Carolina , Florida , Virginia , and Tennessee . Winning those states were part of Nixon’s plan.

“I would not concede the Carolina ‘s, Florida , or Virginia or the states around the rim of the south,”Nixon wrote. ”These states were a part of my plan.”

At that time, the entire southern region was the poorest in the country. The south consistently lagged behind the rest of the United States in income. And according to the

“U.S. Regional Growth and Convergence,” by Kris James Mitchener and Ian W. McLean, per capita income for southerners was almost half as much as it was for Americans in other regions.

Nixon won those states strictly on economic issues. He focused on increasing tariffs on foreign imports to protect the manufacturing and agriculture industries of those states. Some southern elected officials agreed to support him for the sake of their economies, including South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond.

“I had been consulting privately with Thurmond for several months and I was convinced that he’d join my campaign if he were satisfied on the two issues of paramount concern to him: national defense and tariffs against textile imports to protect South Carolina ‘s position in the industry.”Nixon wrote in his memoirs.

In fact, Nixon made it clear to the southern elected officials that he would not compromise on the civil rights issue.

“On civil rights, Thurmond knew my position was very different from his,” Nixon wrote. “I was for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and he was against it. Although he disagreed with me, he respected my sincerity and candor.”

The same scenario played out among elected officials and voters in other southern states won by Nixon. They laid their feelings aside and supported him because of his economic platform’”not because Nixon sent messages on a frequency only racists can hear.

None of that. I just believe the GOP when they admitted to the southern strategy. I guess someone forgot to tell you they admitted to it?

They didn't admit to the southern strategy......one GOP coward thought he would gain points with morons like you by apologizing for it........since it didn't happen, it simply shows he was a huge coward...

Yes they did. On 2 occasions. It wasnt some random GOP person they were both the chairmen of the RNC when they admitted to it. Theres absolutely nothing you can say that refute this. Anything you say is just an indicator of willful ignorance and places you on the bench as a serious interlocutor.

USATODAY.com - GOP: 'We were wrong' to play racial politics

""Some Republicans gave up on winning the African-American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization," Mehlman said at the annual convention of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. "I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."

Mehlman's apology to the NAACP at the group's convention in Milwaukee marked the first time a top Republican Party leader has denounced the so-called Southern Strategy employed by Richard Nixon and other Republicans to peel away white voters in what was then the heavily Democratic South."

Michael Steele: For Decades GOP Pursued 'Southern Strategy' That Alienated Minorities

Michael Steele: For Decades GOP Pursued 'Southern Strategy' That Alienated Minorities

www.huffpost.com

"For the last 40-plus years we had a ‘Southern Strategy’ that alienated many minority voters by focusing on the white male vote in the South. Well, guess what happened in 1992, folks, ‘Bubba’ went back home to the Democratic Party and voted for Bill Clinton"

To me Confederate flags honor family members who died honorably fighting bravely for a good cause.

Fighting against the United States of America and in support of maintaining slavery is a good cause?

The simple fact is that the South wanted to self govern. You can argue the reason they wanted to self govern until the cows come home, it really doesn't matter. They no longer recognized the authority of Washington DC just as the USA no longer recognized the authority of the Crown 80 years prior.

To state their cause was "wrong" is to state our cause was wrong in 1776, because they only difference is the USA won it's war for independence.

They were wrong, the reason they left was because of a perceived threat to Slavery when in fact they had as much clout in the Congress as they did BEFORE lincoln was elected and a President alone could not change the Constitution nor state laws. They were worried that 20 years down the line Free States would out number the slave states enough to effect slavery, and instead of fighting politically to prevent that they instead cut their own throats and ended slavery in 3 years not 20.

*Sigh* Read the post again - the REASON is irrelevant. They wanted independence and they fought for it. Same as we did in 1776. If they were "wrong", so were we.

the REASON is irrelevant.

You all obviously want that to be the case. That's what the lost cause bullshit was meant to do. To change the narrative.
Its not irrelevant. Not at all.
The reason, the self stated reason by the confederate states, is exactly why those monuments and statues are being removed.

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Apparently the negros didn't.

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

But you didn't answer the question: Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

Liar.
Your revisionist bullshit isn't gonna fly.

The war, for the confederacy was first and foremost about the preservation of their perceived racial superiority, slavery and the economic advanges thereof. As always, don't take my word for it. Take theirs.

There is nothing else. The fact that the average rube, not unlike yourself, never understood that is irrelevant to the fact that they were indeed fighting toward those ends.

Which of those self stated principles of the confederacy, racial superiority, slavery or the economic exploitation of said slaves through forced labor, deserve continued veneration in American society today?

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together.

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together

Derp....
The reason for the confederacy, fool. They weren't fighting to preserve the union. They were fighting to preserve their way of life.
The confederate states threatened civil war for years over the movement toward abolition. They started the war.

The federal were fighting to preserve the union, you fucking moron. No one said the Confederacy was. The were trying to secede.

How much of a dumbass can you be ?

Hey retard. The confederate losers started the war and they seceded.

Wrong. I have already proven they didn't. Lincoln invaded Virginia.

The only thing you've ever proven is that you are retarded. The confederate losers attacked Ft Sumter first on April 12, 1861 and got their asses beat down in the end.

Yes.....the democrat party fired on The United States, in order to keep Blacks as slaves.........you are correct. Lincoln, the Republican President said he would take no action against the democrat party, who declared separaton from the United States in order to keep Blacks as slaves. Then, the democrat party, being insane assholes that they are to this day, fired on the United States......and started the Civil War, in order to keep Blacks as slaves.

IKR? To think the southern strategy would forever move those very same democratic voters to the republican party is pretty amazing. Glad you agree.

It didn't....... you have been shown how that lie was created...and yet you still believe it....are you dumb, or do you just drink a lot?

Nixon’s Southern Strategy: The Democrat-Lie Keeping Their Control Over the Black Community | Black Quill and Ink


Ken Raymond
Jun 2011

Richard Nixon’s “Southern Strategy”, which the democrats say is the reason black people had to support them during the 1960′s–is a lie.

And it’s probably the biggest lie that’s been told to the blacks since Woodrow Wilson segregated the federal government after getting the NAACP to support him.
After talking with black voters across the country about why they overwhelmingly supports democrats, the common answer that’s emerges is the Southern Strategy.

I’ve heard of the Southern Strategy too. But since it doesn’t make a difference in how I decide to vote, I never bothered to research it. But apparently it still influences how many African Americans vote today. That makes it worth investigating.

For those that might be unfamiliar with the Southern Strategy, I’ll briefly review the story. After the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, most blacks registered as democrats and it’s been that way ever since.

And that doesn’t make any sense when you consider the fact that it was the democrats that established, and fought for, Jim Crow laws and segregation in the first place. And the republicans have a very noble history of fighting for the civil rights of blacks.

The reason black people moved to the democrats, given by media pundits and educational institutions for the decades, is that when republican presidential candidate Richard Nixon ran for president in 1968, he employed a racist plan that’s now infamously called the Southern Strategy.

The Southern Strategy basically means Nixon allegedly used hidden code words that appealed to the racists within the Democrat party and throughout the south. This secret language caused a seismic shift in the electoral landscape that moved the evil racist democrats into the republican camp and the noble-hearted republicans into the democrat camp.

And here’s what I found, Nixon did not use a plan to appeal to racist white voters.

First, let’s look at the presidential candidates of 1968. Richard Nixon was the republican candidate; Hubert Humphrey was the democrat nominee; and George Wallace was a third party candidate.

Remember George Wallace? Wallace was the democrat governor of Alabama from 1963 until 1967. And it was Wallace that ordered the Eugene “Bull” Connor, and the police department, to attack Dr. Martin Luther King

Jr. and 2,500 protesters in Montgomery , Alabama in 1965. And it was Governor Wallace that ordered a blockade at the admissions office at the University of Alabama to prevent blacks from enrolling in 1963.

Governor Wallace was a true racist and a determined segregationist. And he ran as the nominee from the American Independent Party, which was he founded.

Richard Nixon wrote about the 1968 campaign in his book RN: the Memoirs of Richard Nixon originally published in 1978.

In his book, Nixon wrote this about campaigning in the south, “The deep south had to be virtually conceded to George Wallace. I could not match him there without compromising on civil rights, which I would not do.”

The media coverage of the 1968 presidential race also showed that Nixon was in favor of the Civil Rights and would not compromise on that issue. For example, in an article published in theWashington Post on September 15, 1968 headlined “Nixon Sped Integration, Wallace says” Wallace declared that Nixon agreed with Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren and played a role in ”the destruction of public school system.” Wallace pledged to restore the school system, in the same article, by giving it back to the states ”lock, stock, and barrel.”

This story, as well as Nixon’s memoirs and other news stories during that campaign, shows that Nixon was very clear about his position on civil rights. And if Nixon was used code words only racists could hear, evidently George Wallace couldn’t hear it.

Among the southern states, George Wallace won Arkansas , Mississippi , Alabama , Georgia and Louisiana . Nixon won North Carolina , South Carolina , Florida , Virginia , and Tennessee . Winning those states were part of Nixon’s plan.

“I would not concede the Carolina ‘s, Florida , or Virginia or the states around the rim of the south,”Nixon wrote. ”These states were a part of my plan.”

At that time, the entire southern region was the poorest in the country. The south consistently lagged behind the rest of the United States in income. And according to the

“U.S. Regional Growth and Convergence,” by Kris James Mitchener and Ian W. McLean, per capita income for southerners was almost half as much as it was for Americans in other regions.

Nixon won those states strictly on economic issues. He focused on increasing tariffs on foreign imports to protect the manufacturing and agriculture industries of those states. Some southern elected officials agreed to support him for the sake of their economies, including South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond.

“I had been consulting privately with Thurmond for several months and I was convinced that he’d join my campaign if he were satisfied on the two issues of paramount concern to him: national defense and tariffs against textile imports to protect South Carolina ‘s position in the industry.”Nixon wrote in his memoirs.

In fact, Nixon made it clear to the southern elected officials that he would not compromise on the civil rights issue.

“On civil rights, Thurmond knew my position was very different from his,” Nixon wrote. “I was for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and he was against it. Although he disagreed with me, he respected my sincerity and candor.”

The same scenario played out among elected officials and voters in other southern states won by Nixon. They laid their feelings aside and supported him because of his economic platform’”not because Nixon sent messages on a frequency only racists can hear.

None of that. I just believe the GOP when they admitted to the southern strategy. I guess someone forgot to tell you they admitted to it?

They didn't admit to the southern strategy......one GOP coward thought he would gain points with morons like you by apologizing for it........since it didn't happen, it simply shows he was a huge coward...

Yes they did. On 2 occasions. It wasnt some random GOP person they were both the chairmen of the RNC when they admitted to it. Theres absolutely nothing you can say that refute this. Anything you say is just an indicator of willful ignorance and places you on the bench as a serious interlocutor.

USATODAY.com - GOP: 'We were wrong' to play racial politics

""Some Republicans gave up on winning the African-American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization," Mehlman said at the annual convention of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. "I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."

Mehlman's apology to the NAACP at the group's convention in Milwaukee marked the first time a top Republican Party leader has denounced the so-called Southern Strategy employed by Richard Nixon and other Republicans to peel away white voters in what was then the heavily Democratic South."

Michael Steele: For Decades GOP Pursued 'Southern Strategy' That Alienated Minorities

Michael Steele: For Decades GOP Pursued 'Southern Strategy' That Alienated Minorities

www.huffpost.com

"For the last 40-plus years we had a ‘Southern Strategy’ that alienated many minority voters by focusing on the white male vote in the South. Well, guess what happened in 1992, folks, ‘Bubba’ went back home to the Democratic Party and voted for Bill Clinton"

Why reach out to a voting bloc that will vote against you 90% of the time. Southern's regret voting for Clinton in 1992.

You'd have to ask the GOP that question. They are the ones that apologized for using the southern strategy.

A couple of GOP did that, moron. They don't speak for the entire Republican party.

The Republican National Committee chairmen dont speak for the party? Yeah you may want to try convincing someone of that who is brain damaged like yourself.

 

[Asclepias]

It wasn't an act of war, nimrod. Ft Sumter was SC territory. Firing on your own territory is not an act of war, period.

Title had passed to the US government.

"Title" means it's just a piece of property. Walmart is not a separate country. It's part of the state where I live. It has the same exact kind of "title" to the property it sits on as the federal government had with respect to Ft Sumter. It's part of South Carolina. Of course you will idiotically continue to post this already debunked claim because otherwise you will have to admit that the federal government made war on the State of South Carolina.

Actually RETARD the US Government is different then the State and while it may allow some state laws to be enforced reserves the right to make it that FEDERAL law applies to that property, go ahead and go to a US Base and READ the sign posted before you enter.

Wrong, turd, the federal government cannot treat the property of Ft Sumter differnt than it can treat the property of any other state. The federal government cannot just nullify state laws.

Your claim is 100% bullshit.

LOL a State has NO authority on Federal land EXCEPT what the Federal Government cedes to it. Try this dumb ass if a Military member commits a crime on federal property Federal NOT state authorities have jurisdiction and a Military Court determines the punishment.

That was a Federal claim at the time and one of the things that was thought to be a violation of States' rights. After secession the CSA was the federal government of SC.

Wrong the Constitution is clear the President and Congress CAN declare martial law and order troops to put down insurrection. If as you claim anyone at any time can simply declare they are no longer part of the US then there would be NO such clause as it would be meaningless.

Secession is not insurrection.

Nothing in the Constitution says that states cannot secede from the Union.

That ass whooping said you couldnt secede. Give it a rest. The south will never rise again.

Maybe so but you took a very serious ass-whooping of your own to make it stick.

if you havent found something worth dying to gain then you havent lived. My ancestors killed up some racist honkys so I could be free.

If you are black it is much more likely that it was my white ancestors who did that deed. Somehow you don't seem all that grateful.

Your white ancestors didnt fight to free me. They fought to keep the union together and make sure the south didnt start enslaving other whites.

Truth is that you have absolutely no clue what anyone fought for including your own ancestors. You just claim whatever motive pops out of your fevered imagination.

That may be your truth but my truth is actually factual. Unless you can prove my ancestors lied about going to war to make sure their descendants were born free you have nothing but hopeful wishes and deranged opinions.

 

[bripat9643]

Never heard of Kevin Phillips and I never mentioned him. Why the long winded post about someone I never mentioned. Concentrate on the fact that the GOP admitted to the southern strategy.

The GOP didn't admit to anything. Two scumbag quisling politicians told a lie.

 

[bripat9643]

To me Confederate flags honor family members who died honorably fighting bravely for a good cause.

Fighting against the United States of America and in support of maintaining slavery is a good cause?

The simple fact is that the South wanted to self govern. You can argue the reason they wanted to self govern until the cows come home, it really doesn't matter. They no longer recognized the authority of Washington DC just as the USA no longer recognized the authority of the Crown 80 years prior.

To state their cause was "wrong" is to state our cause was wrong in 1776, because they only difference is the USA won it's war for independence.

They were wrong, the reason they left was because of a perceived threat to Slavery when in fact they had as much clout in the Congress as they did BEFORE lincoln was elected and a President alone could not change the Constitution nor state laws. They were worried that 20 years down the line Free States would out number the slave states enough to effect slavery, and instead of fighting politically to prevent that they instead cut their own throats and ended slavery in 3 years not 20.

*Sigh* Read the post again - the REASON is irrelevant. They wanted independence and they fought for it. Same as we did in 1776. If they were "wrong", so were we.

the REASON is irrelevant.

You all obviously want that to be the case. That's what the lost cause bullshit was meant to do. To change the narrative.
Its not irrelevant. Not at all.
The reason, the self stated reason by the confederate states, is exactly why those monuments and statues are being removed.

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Apparently the negros didn't.

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

But you didn't answer the question: Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

Liar.
Your revisionist bullshit isn't gonna fly.

The war, for the confederacy was first and foremost about the preservation of their perceived racial superiority, slavery and the economic advanges thereof. As always, don't take my word for it. Take theirs.

There is nothing else. The fact that the average rube, not unlike yourself, never understood that is irrelevant to the fact that they were indeed fighting toward those ends.

Which of those self stated principles of the confederacy, racial superiority, slavery or the economic exploitation of said slaves through forced labor, deserve continued veneration in American society today?

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together.

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together

Derp....
The reason for the confederacy, fool. They weren't fighting to preserve the union. They were fighting to preserve their way of life.
The confederate states threatened civil war for years over the movement toward abolition. They started the war.

The federal were fighting to preserve the union, you fucking moron. No one said the Confederacy was. The were trying to secede.

How much of a dumbass can you be ?

Hey retard. The confederate losers started the war and they seceded.

Wrong. I have already proven they didn't. Lincoln invaded Virginia.

The only thing you've ever proven is that you are retarded. The confederate losers attacked Ft Sumter first on April 12, 1861 and got their asses beat down in the end.

Yes.....the democrat party fired on The United States, in order to keep Blacks as slaves.........you are correct. Lincoln, the Republican President said he would take no action against the democrat party, who declared separaton from the United States in order to keep Blacks as slaves. Then, the democrat party, being insane assholes that they are to this day, fired on the United States......and started the Civil War, in order to keep Blacks as slaves.

IKR? To think the southern strategy would forever move those very same democratic voters to the republican party is pretty amazing. Glad you agree.

It didn't....... you have been shown how that lie was created...and yet you still believe it....are you dumb, or do you just drink a lot?

Nixon’s Southern Strategy: The Democrat-Lie Keeping Their Control Over the Black Community | Black Quill and Ink


Ken Raymond
Jun 2011

Richard Nixon’s “Southern Strategy”, which the democrats say is the reason black people had to support them during the 1960′s–is a lie.

And it’s probably the biggest lie that’s been told to the blacks since Woodrow Wilson segregated the federal government after getting the NAACP to support him.
After talking with black voters across the country about why they overwhelmingly supports democrats, the common answer that’s emerges is the Southern Strategy.

I’ve heard of the Southern Strategy too. But since it doesn’t make a difference in how I decide to vote, I never bothered to research it. But apparently it still influences how many African Americans vote today. That makes it worth investigating.

For those that might be unfamiliar with the Southern Strategy, I’ll briefly review the story. After the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, most blacks registered as democrats and it’s been that way ever since.

And that doesn’t make any sense when you consider the fact that it was the democrats that established, and fought for, Jim Crow laws and segregation in the first place. And the republicans have a very noble history of fighting for the civil rights of blacks.

The reason black people moved to the democrats, given by media pundits and educational institutions for the decades, is that when republican presidential candidate Richard Nixon ran for president in 1968, he employed a racist plan that’s now infamously called the Southern Strategy.

The Southern Strategy basically means Nixon allegedly used hidden code words that appealed to the racists within the Democrat party and throughout the south. This secret language caused a seismic shift in the electoral landscape that moved the evil racist democrats into the republican camp and the noble-hearted republicans into the democrat camp.

And here’s what I found, Nixon did not use a plan to appeal to racist white voters.

First, let’s look at the presidential candidates of 1968. Richard Nixon was the republican candidate; Hubert Humphrey was the democrat nominee; and George Wallace was a third party candidate.

Remember George Wallace? Wallace was the democrat governor of Alabama from 1963 until 1967. And it was Wallace that ordered the Eugene “Bull” Connor, and the police department, to attack Dr. Martin Luther King

Jr. and 2,500 protesters in Montgomery , Alabama in 1965. And it was Governor Wallace that ordered a blockade at the admissions office at the University of Alabama to prevent blacks from enrolling in 1963.

Governor Wallace was a true racist and a determined segregationist. And he ran as the nominee from the American Independent Party, which was he founded.

Richard Nixon wrote about the 1968 campaign in his book RN: the Memoirs of Richard Nixon originally published in 1978.

In his book, Nixon wrote this about campaigning in the south, “The deep south had to be virtually conceded to George Wallace. I could not match him there without compromising on civil rights, which I would not do.”

The media coverage of the 1968 presidential race also showed that Nixon was in favor of the Civil Rights and would not compromise on that issue. For example, in an article published in theWashington Post on September 15, 1968 headlined “Nixon Sped Integration, Wallace says” Wallace declared that Nixon agreed with Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren and played a role in ”the destruction of public school system.” Wallace pledged to restore the school system, in the same article, by giving it back to the states ”lock, stock, and barrel.”

This story, as well as Nixon’s memoirs and other news stories during that campaign, shows that Nixon was very clear about his position on civil rights. And if Nixon was used code words only racists could hear, evidently George Wallace couldn’t hear it.

Among the southern states, George Wallace won Arkansas , Mississippi , Alabama , Georgia and Louisiana . Nixon won North Carolina , South Carolina , Florida , Virginia , and Tennessee . Winning those states were part of Nixon’s plan.

“I would not concede the Carolina ‘s, Florida , or Virginia or the states around the rim of the south,”Nixon wrote. ”These states were a part of my plan.”

At that time, the entire southern region was the poorest in the country. The south consistently lagged behind the rest of the United States in income. And according to the

“U.S. Regional Growth and Convergence,” by Kris James Mitchener and Ian W. McLean, per capita income for southerners was almost half as much as it was for Americans in other regions.

Nixon won those states strictly on economic issues. He focused on increasing tariffs on foreign imports to protect the manufacturing and agriculture industries of those states. Some southern elected officials agreed to support him for the sake of their economies, including South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond.

“I had been consulting privately with Thurmond for several months and I was convinced that he’d join my campaign if he were satisfied on the two issues of paramount concern to him: national defense and tariffs against textile imports to protect South Carolina ‘s position in the industry.”Nixon wrote in his memoirs.

In fact, Nixon made it clear to the southern elected officials that he would not compromise on the civil rights issue.

“On civil rights, Thurmond knew my position was very different from his,” Nixon wrote. “I was for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and he was against it. Although he disagreed with me, he respected my sincerity and candor.”

The same scenario played out among elected officials and voters in other southern states won by Nixon. They laid their feelings aside and supported him because of his economic platform’”not because Nixon sent messages on a frequency only racists can hear.

None of that. I just believe the GOP when they admitted to the southern strategy. I guess someone forgot to tell you they admitted to it?

They didn't admit to the southern strategy......one GOP coward thought he would gain points with morons like you by apologizing for it........since it didn't happen, it simply shows he was a huge coward...

Yes they did. On 2 occasions. It wasnt some random GOP person they were both the chairmen of the RNC when they admitted to it. Theres absolutely nothing you can say that refute this. Anything you say is just an indicator of willful ignorance and places you on the bench as a serious interlocutor.

USATODAY.com - GOP: 'We were wrong' to play racial politics

""Some Republicans gave up on winning the African-American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization," Mehlman said at the annual convention of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. "I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."

Mehlman's apology to the NAACP at the group's convention in Milwaukee marked the first time a top Republican Party leader has denounced the so-called Southern Strategy employed by Richard Nixon and other Republicans to peel away white voters in what was then the heavily Democratic South."

Michael Steele: For Decades GOP Pursued 'Southern Strategy' That Alienated Minorities

Michael Steele: For Decades GOP Pursued 'Southern Strategy' That Alienated Minorities

www.huffpost.com

"For the last 40-plus years we had a ‘Southern Strategy’ that alienated many minority voters by focusing on the white male vote in the South. Well, guess what happened in 1992, folks, ‘Bubba’ went back home to the Democratic Party and voted for Bill Clinton"

To me Confederate flags honor family members who died honorably fighting bravely for a good cause.

Fighting against the United States of America and in support of maintaining slavery is a good cause?

The simple fact is that the South wanted to self govern. You can argue the reason they wanted to self govern until the cows come home, it really doesn't matter. They no longer recognized the authority of Washington DC just as the USA no longer recognized the authority of the Crown 80 years prior.

To state their cause was "wrong" is to state our cause was wrong in 1776, because they only difference is the USA won it's war for independence.

They were wrong, the reason they left was because of a perceived threat to Slavery when in fact they had as much clout in the Congress as they did BEFORE lincoln was elected and a President alone could not change the Constitution nor state laws. They were worried that 20 years down the line Free States would out number the slave states enough to effect slavery, and instead of fighting politically to prevent that they instead cut their own throats and ended slavery in 3 years not 20.

*Sigh* Read the post again - the REASON is irrelevant. They wanted independence and they fought for it. Same as we did in 1776. If they were "wrong", so were we.

the REASON is irrelevant.

You all obviously want that to be the case. That's what the lost cause bullshit was meant to do. To change the narrative.
Its not irrelevant. Not at all.
The reason, the self stated reason by the confederate states, is exactly why those monuments and statues are being removed.

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Apparently the negros didn't.

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

But you didn't answer the question: Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

Liar.
Your revisionist bullshit isn't gonna fly.

The war, for the confederacy was first and foremost about the preservation of their perceived racial superiority, slavery and the economic advanges thereof. As always, don't take my word for it. Take theirs.

There is nothing else. The fact that the average rube, not unlike yourself, never understood that is irrelevant to the fact that they were indeed fighting toward those ends.

Which of those self stated principles of the confederacy, racial superiority, slavery or the economic exploitation of said slaves through forced labor, deserve continued veneration in American society today?

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together.

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together

Derp....
The reason for the confederacy, fool. They weren't fighting to preserve the union. They were fighting to preserve their way of life.
The confederate states threatened civil war for years over the movement toward abolition. They started the war.

The federal were fighting to preserve the union, you fucking moron. No one said the Confederacy was. The were trying to secede.

How much of a dumbass can you be ?

Hey retard. The confederate losers started the war and they seceded.

Wrong. I have already proven they didn't. Lincoln invaded Virginia.

The only thing you've ever proven is that you are retarded. The confederate losers attacked Ft Sumter first on April 12, 1861 and got their asses beat down in the end.

Yes.....the democrat party fired on The United States, in order to keep Blacks as slaves.........you are correct. Lincoln, the Republican President said he would take no action against the democrat party, who declared separaton from the United States in order to keep Blacks as slaves. Then, the democrat party, being insane assholes that they are to this day, fired on the United States......and started the Civil War, in order to keep Blacks as slaves.

IKR? To think the southern strategy would forever move those very same democratic voters to the republican party is pretty amazing. Glad you agree.

It didn't....... you have been shown how that lie was created...and yet you still believe it....are you dumb, or do you just drink a lot?

Nixon’s Southern Strategy: The Democrat-Lie Keeping Their Control Over the Black Community | Black Quill and Ink


Ken Raymond
Jun 2011

Richard Nixon’s “Southern Strategy”, which the democrats say is the reason black people had to support them during the 1960′s–is a lie.

And it’s probably the biggest lie that’s been told to the blacks since Woodrow Wilson segregated the federal government after getting the NAACP to support him.
After talking with black voters across the country about why they overwhelmingly supports democrats, the common answer that’s emerges is the Southern Strategy.

I’ve heard of the Southern Strategy too. But since it doesn’t make a difference in how I decide to vote, I never bothered to research it. But apparently it still influences how many African Americans vote today. That makes it worth investigating.

For those that might be unfamiliar with the Southern Strategy, I’ll briefly review the story. After the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, most blacks registered as democrats and it’s been that way ever since.

And that doesn’t make any sense when you consider the fact that it was the democrats that established, and fought for, Jim Crow laws and segregation in the first place. And the republicans have a very noble history of fighting for the civil rights of blacks.

The reason black people moved to the democrats, given by media pundits and educational institutions for the decades, is that when republican presidential candidate Richard Nixon ran for president in 1968, he employed a racist plan that’s now infamously called the Southern Strategy.

The Southern Strategy basically means Nixon allegedly used hidden code words that appealed to the racists within the Democrat party and throughout the south. This secret language caused a seismic shift in the electoral landscape that moved the evil racist democrats into the republican camp and the noble-hearted republicans into the democrat camp.

And here’s what I found, Nixon did not use a plan to appeal to racist white voters.

First, let’s look at the presidential candidates of 1968. Richard Nixon was the republican candidate; Hubert Humphrey was the democrat nominee; and George Wallace was a third party candidate.

Remember George Wallace? Wallace was the democrat governor of Alabama from 1963 until 1967. And it was Wallace that ordered the Eugene “Bull” Connor, and the police department, to attack Dr. Martin Luther King

Jr. and 2,500 protesters in Montgomery , Alabama in 1965. And it was Governor Wallace that ordered a blockade at the admissions office at the University of Alabama to prevent blacks from enrolling in 1963.

Governor Wallace was a true racist and a determined segregationist. And he ran as the nominee from the American Independent Party, which was he founded.

Richard Nixon wrote about the 1968 campaign in his book RN: the Memoirs of Richard Nixon originally published in 1978.

In his book, Nixon wrote this about campaigning in the south, “The deep south had to be virtually conceded to George Wallace. I could not match him there without compromising on civil rights, which I would not do.”

The media coverage of the 1968 presidential race also showed that Nixon was in favor of the Civil Rights and would not compromise on that issue. For example, in an article published in theWashington Post on September 15, 1968 headlined “Nixon Sped Integration, Wallace says” Wallace declared that Nixon agreed with Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren and played a role in ”the destruction of public school system.” Wallace pledged to restore the school system, in the same article, by giving it back to the states ”lock, stock, and barrel.”

This story, as well as Nixon’s memoirs and other news stories during that campaign, shows that Nixon was very clear about his position on civil rights. And if Nixon was used code words only racists could hear, evidently George Wallace couldn’t hear it.

Among the southern states, George Wallace won Arkansas , Mississippi , Alabama , Georgia and Louisiana . Nixon won North Carolina , South Carolina , Florida , Virginia , and Tennessee . Winning those states were part of Nixon’s plan.

“I would not concede the Carolina ‘s, Florida , or Virginia or the states around the rim of the south,”Nixon wrote. ”These states were a part of my plan.”

At that time, the entire southern region was the poorest in the country. The south consistently lagged behind the rest of the United States in income. And according to the

“U.S. Regional Growth and Convergence,” by Kris James Mitchener and Ian W. McLean, per capita income for southerners was almost half as much as it was for Americans in other regions.

Nixon won those states strictly on economic issues. He focused on increasing tariffs on foreign imports to protect the manufacturing and agriculture industries of those states. Some southern elected officials agreed to support him for the sake of their economies, including South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond.

“I had been consulting privately with Thurmond for several months and I was convinced that he’d join my campaign if he were satisfied on the two issues of paramount concern to him: national defense and tariffs against textile imports to protect South Carolina ‘s position in the industry.”Nixon wrote in his memoirs.

In fact, Nixon made it clear to the southern elected officials that he would not compromise on the civil rights issue.

“On civil rights, Thurmond knew my position was very different from his,” Nixon wrote. “I was for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and he was against it. Although he disagreed with me, he respected my sincerity and candor.”

The same scenario played out among elected officials and voters in other southern states won by Nixon. They laid their feelings aside and supported him because of his economic platform’”not because Nixon sent messages on a frequency only racists can hear.

None of that. I just believe the GOP when they admitted to the southern strategy. I guess someone forgot to tell you they admitted to it?

They didn't admit to the southern strategy......one GOP coward thought he would gain points with morons like you by apologizing for it........since it didn't happen, it simply shows he was a huge coward...

Yes they did. On 2 occasions. It wasnt some random GOP person they were both the chairmen of the RNC when they admitted to it. Theres absolutely nothing you can say that refute this. Anything you say is just an indicator of willful ignorance and places you on the bench as a serious interlocutor.

USATODAY.com - GOP: 'We were wrong' to play racial politics

""Some Republicans gave up on winning the African-American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization," Mehlman said at the annual convention of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. "I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."

Mehlman's apology to the NAACP at the group's convention in Milwaukee marked the first time a top Republican Party leader has denounced the so-called Southern Strategy employed by Richard Nixon and other Republicans to peel away white voters in what was then the heavily Democratic South."

Michael Steele: For Decades GOP Pursued 'Southern Strategy' That Alienated Minorities

Michael Steele: For Decades GOP Pursued 'Southern Strategy' That Alienated Minorities

www.huffpost.com

"For the last 40-plus years we had a ‘Southern Strategy’ that alienated many minority voters by focusing on the white male vote in the South. Well, guess what happened in 1992, folks, ‘Bubba’ went back home to the Democratic Party and voted for Bill Clinton"

Why reach out to a voting bloc that will vote against you 90% of the time. Southern's regret voting for Clinton in 1992.

You'd have to ask the GOP that question. They are the ones that apologized for using the southern strategy.

A couple of GOP did that, moron. They don't speak for the entire Republican party.

The Republican National Committee chairmen dont speak for the party? Yeah you may want to try convincing someone of that who is brain damaged like yourself.

No, he actually doesn't. Steele was selected because he's black. His selection was just a case of pandering. He was a major mistake.

 

[9thIDdoc]

It wasn't an act of war, nimrod. Ft Sumter was SC territory. Firing on your own territory is not an act of war, period.

Title had passed to the US government.

"Title" means it's just a piece of property. Walmart is not a separate country. It's part of the state where I live. It has the same exact kind of "title" to the property it sits on as the federal government had with respect to Ft Sumter. It's part of South Carolina. Of course you will idiotically continue to post this already debunked claim because otherwise you will have to admit that the federal government made war on the State of South Carolina.

Actually RETARD the US Government is different then the State and while it may allow some state laws to be enforced reserves the right to make it that FEDERAL law applies to that property, go ahead and go to a US Base and READ the sign posted before you enter.

Wrong, turd, the federal government cannot treat the property of Ft Sumter differnt than it can treat the property of any other state. The federal government cannot just nullify state laws.

Your claim is 100% bullshit.

LOL a State has NO authority on Federal land EXCEPT what the Federal Government cedes to it. Try this dumb ass if a Military member commits a crime on federal property Federal NOT state authorities have jurisdiction and a Military Court determines the punishment.

That was a Federal claim at the time and one of the things that was thought to be a violation of States' rights. After secession the CSA was the federal government of SC.

Wrong the Constitution is clear the President and Congress CAN declare martial law and order troops to put down insurrection. If as you claim anyone at any time can simply declare they are no longer part of the US then there would be NO such clause as it would be meaningless.

Secession is not insurrection.

Nothing in the Constitution says that states cannot secede from the Union.

That ass whooping said you couldnt secede. Give it a rest. The south will never rise again.

Another idiot who doesn't get the point.

The point was that you inbreds lost the war. Now youre trying to make it seem like it was something noble. No. You just got your asses kicked and every since then its been one ass kicking after another.

Putting your life on the line to defend home and family from foreign invaders is indeed a noble thing.

You were fighting for slavery. It even says that in the cornerstone speech. Nothing noble about that.

I never fought for slavery
You never fought for anyone's freedom
And you still have no clue what anyone fought for

It wasn't an act of war, nimrod. Ft Sumter was SC territory. Firing on your own territory is not an act of war, period.

Title had passed to the US government.

"Title" means it's just a piece of property. Walmart is not a separate country. It's part of the state where I live. It has the same exact kind of "title" to the property it sits on as the federal government had with respect to Ft Sumter. It's part of South Carolina. Of course you will idiotically continue to post this already debunked claim because otherwise you will have to admit that the federal government made war on the State of South Carolina.

Actually RETARD the US Government is different then the State and while it may allow some state laws to be enforced reserves the right to make it that FEDERAL law applies to that property, go ahead and go to a US Base and READ the sign posted before you enter.

Wrong, turd, the federal government cannot treat the property of Ft Sumter differnt than it can treat the property of any other state. The federal government cannot just nullify state laws.

Your claim is 100% bullshit.

LOL a State has NO authority on Federal land EXCEPT what the Federal Government cedes to it. Try this dumb ass if a Military member commits a crime on federal property Federal NOT state authorities have jurisdiction and a Military Court determines the punishment.

That was a Federal claim at the time and one of the things that was thought to be a violation of States' rights. After secession the CSA was the federal government of SC.

Wrong the Constitution is clear the President and Congress CAN declare martial law and order troops to put down insurrection. If as you claim anyone at any time can simply declare they are no longer part of the US then there would be NO such clause as it would be meaningless.

Secession is not insurrection.

Nothing in the Constitution says that states cannot secede from the Union.

That ass whooping said you couldnt secede. Give it a rest. The south will never rise again.

Another idiot who doesn't get the point.

The point was that you inbreds lost the war. Now youre trying to make it seem like it was something noble. No. You just got your asses kicked and every since then its been one ass kicking after another.

My ancestors were never in the war, moron. They're Irish and Canadian immigrants.

The discussion here is about whether a state can secede. You aren't even participating in it. You're just making cracks from the sidelines.

"The discussion here is about whether a state can secede. "

The answer is emphatically "hell no". if you try again we will just beat your asses again. Move your ass back to europe if you want to secede.

But, at the time, it was still a question. It was still not clear.

The issue was settled by Brute force, not by facts and logic.

Good. Slavery was instituted by brute force. Not facts and logic.

True and most of it by people of color.

 

[bripat9643]

Truth is that you have absolutely no clue what anyone fought for including your own ancestors. You just claim whatever motive pops out of your fevered imagination.

That may be your truth but my truth is actually factual. Unless you can prove my ancestors lied about going to war to make sure their descendants were born free you have nothing but hopeful wishes and deranged opinions.

He doesn't have to prove shit, moron. You do.

 

[Correll]

The Confederate Flag is a flag that says.....We HATE America

View attachment 357434

Always has been

Except that's not the Confederate flag.

Pssst.... STILL WAITING for you to address Rick Wilson's cooler.

Yea, yea

Confederate Battle Flag

It is now the symbol of the confederacy and a symbol of racism

You don't get to decide that. I consider it a symbol of harmless regional pride and you to be a race baiting asshole.

Of course I do

Your flag is a symbol of hatred of the United States or a symbol of hatred of blacks

Nope. It's a harmless symbol of regional pride and you are a faggot.

OK Regional pride in what?

That they hated the US so much that they fought against us
That they used to own slaves?

The culture. THe history. The brave fight against great odds. Ect.


What part of this is confusing to you?


THat is a rhetorical question. I know you are just a race baiting troll asshole who is just here to be an asshole and troll.

The culture. THe history. The brave fight against great odds. Ect.


What part of this is confusing to you?

It's not confusing in any way. In fact, it couldn't be more clear.

The culture of white supremacy.
The history of brutal slavery.
The brave fight to preserve their racial supremacy and expand brutal slavery to further their economic windfall from it.

Either you are confused or sympathetic.

You don't get to define what other people care about. You do get to try and reveal yourself to be a dishonest asshole.

 

[bripat9643]

You'd have to ask the GOP that question. They are the ones that apologized for using the southern strategy.

A couple of GOP did that, moron. They don't speak for the entire Republican party.

The Republican National Committee chairmen dont speak for the party? Yeah you may want to try convincing someone of that who is brain damaged like yourself.

He may speak for a handfull of party elites, but he doesn't speak for the rank and file. Michael Steal wasn't even around then. That was 40 years before he made the claim. It's horseshit.

 

[Correll]

LOL go fly your rainbow flag you gay faggot. As for the Confederate flag it is NOT treasonous as it does not exists anymore and all the confederates were pardoned. It is simply a historical flag of our past. Remind me do you support BLM in tearing down Washington's statue, Lincoln? Remind me again who is the traitor?

I thought confederates and kkk etc, were Democrats? So why are Republicans fighting to keep a flag belonging to Democrats up?

Because Republicans aren’t fascist scum like you Dimwingers.

Because Democrats of slavery and the kkk have switched parties with the Republicans is more likely.... y'all try to blame the Dems of today for past sins, but it's really the ancestors of today's Republicans in the South's past sins... is what seems obvious, to me....

Which party had a KKK leader serving in the Senate until 2010?

That would be YOUR racist party.

Which party had a KKK leader serving in the Senate until 2010?

That would be YOUR racist party.

Derp...
The former confederate states are all conservative red states, dope.
Did the ideology of the populations of those states change or just their party affiliation?

Have you failed to notice that the ideology of those (as well as others) States has well as the people who live there has changed very considerably in the last 150 years or so?

WTH is "Derp..." supposed to mean?

Have you failed to notice that the ideology of those (as well as others) States has well as the people who live there has changed very considerably in the last 150 years or so?

WTH is "Derp..." supposed to mean?

Always been conservative. If not, then how can that flag represent the pride and heritage that modern conservatives say it does?

Wow, you really DO have a problem understanding that past and present are not the same. Why do you assume that people who have been dead for many decades have-or had-any particular ideology? Far as I know dead people having any ideology is kinda unlikely.
Current living people (not necessarily conservative, white, or from any particular place) say that because it happens to be true. Who are you to say their motives aren't what they say they are. To me Confederate flags honor family members who died honorably fighting bravely for a good cause. The same is true of the US flag for the same reasons. I don't know or care what my ancestors thought about slavery and I had some that fought on each side. It's just not at all important to me and it is wrong of you to claim otherwise.

That was completely reasonable. But Hutch is here to justify bullying behavior by SJWs, so, he will pretend to be too stupid to understand what you said.

That was completely reasonable. But Hutch is here to justify bullying behavior by SJWs, so, he will pretend to be too stupid to understand what you said.

I understood it without a problem. It just didn't speak to my point at all.

Your point was moronic. And crushed by him. YOur lies are not credible.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

To me Confederate flags honor family members who died honorably fighting bravely for a good cause.

Fighting against the United States of America and in support of maintaining slavery is a good cause?

The simple fact is that the South wanted to self govern. You can argue the reason they wanted to self govern until the cows come home, it really doesn't matter. They no longer recognized the authority of Washington DC just as the USA no longer recognized the authority of the Crown 80 years prior.

To state their cause was "wrong" is to state our cause was wrong in 1776, because they only difference is the USA won it's war for independence.

They were wrong, the reason they left was because of a perceived threat to Slavery when in fact they had as much clout in the Congress as they did BEFORE lincoln was elected and a President alone could not change the Constitution nor state laws. They were worried that 20 years down the line Free States would out number the slave states enough to effect slavery, and instead of fighting politically to prevent that they instead cut their own throats and ended slavery in 3 years not 20.

*Sigh* Read the post again - the REASON is irrelevant. They wanted independence and they fought for it. Same as we did in 1776. If they were "wrong", so were we.

the REASON is irrelevant.

You all obviously want that to be the case. That's what the lost cause bullshit was meant to do. To change the narrative.
Its not irrelevant. Not at all.
The reason, the self stated reason by the confederate states, is exactly why those monuments and statues are being removed.

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Apparently the negros didn't.

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

But you didn't answer the question: Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

Liar.
Your revisionist bullshit isn't gonna fly.

The war, for the confederacy was first and foremost about the preservation of their perceived racial superiority, slavery and the economic advanges thereof. As always, don't take my word for it. Take theirs.

There is nothing else. The fact that the average rube, not unlike yourself, never understood that is irrelevant to the fact that they were indeed fighting toward those ends.

Which of those self stated principles of the confederacy, racial superiority, slavery or the economic exploitation of said slaves through forced labor, deserve continued veneration in American society today?

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together.

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together

Derp....
The reason for the confederacy, fool. They weren't fighting to preserve the union. They were fighting to preserve their way of life.
The confederate states threatened civil war for years over the movement toward abolition. They started the war.

Right, but you know what Lincoln said about slavery, right? He said they could continue as long as they did not secede.

So, the war was about secession. Secession was about slavery.

Why is that so hard to accept? What are you trying to prove?

 

[Nostra]

To me Confederate flags honor family members who died honorably fighting bravely for a good cause.

Fighting against the United States of America and in support of maintaining slavery is a good cause?

The simple fact is that the South wanted to self govern. You can argue the reason they wanted to self govern until the cows come home, it really doesn't matter. They no longer recognized the authority of Washington DC just as the USA no longer recognized the authority of the Crown 80 years prior.

To state their cause was "wrong" is to state our cause was wrong in 1776, because they only difference is the USA won it's war for independence.

They were wrong, the reason they left was because of a perceived threat to Slavery when in fact they had as much clout in the Congress as they did BEFORE lincoln was elected and a President alone could not change the Constitution nor state laws. They were worried that 20 years down the line Free States would out number the slave states enough to effect slavery, and instead of fighting politically to prevent that they instead cut their own throats and ended slavery in 3 years not 20.

*Sigh* Read the post again - the REASON is irrelevant. They wanted independence and they fought for it. Same as we did in 1776. If they were "wrong", so were we.

the REASON is irrelevant.

You all obviously want that to be the case. That's what the lost cause bullshit was meant to do. To change the narrative.
Its not irrelevant. Not at all.
The reason, the self stated reason by the confederate states, is exactly why those monuments and statues are being removed.

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Apparently the negros didn't.

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

But you didn't answer the question: Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

Liar.
Your revisionist bullshit isn't gonna fly.

The war, for the confederacy was first and foremost about the preservation of their perceived racial superiority, slavery and the economic advanges thereof. As always, don't take my word for it. Take theirs.

There is nothing else. The fact that the average rube, not unlike yourself, never understood that is irrelevant to the fact that they were indeed fighting toward those ends.

Which of those self stated principles of the confederacy, racial superiority, slavery or the economic exploitation of said slaves through forced labor, deserve continued veneration in American society today?

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together.

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together

Derp....
The reason for the confederacy, fool. They weren't fighting to preserve the union. They were fighting to preserve their way of life.
The confederate states threatened civil war for years over the movement toward abolition. They started the war.

The federal were fighting to preserve the union, you fucking moron. No one said the Confederacy was. The were trying to secede.

How much of a dumbass can you be ?

Hey retard. The confederate losers started the war and they seceded.

Wrong. I have already proven they didn't. Lincoln invaded Virginia.

The only thing you've ever proven is that you are retarded. The confederate losers attacked Ft Sumter first on April 12, 1861 and got their asses beat down in the end.

You keep posting "Confederate losers" as if that is gonna upset someone here.

Your game is weak.

 

[Asclepias]

To me Confederate flags honor family members who died honorably fighting bravely for a good cause.

Fighting against the United States of America and in support of maintaining slavery is a good cause?

The simple fact is that the South wanted to self govern. You can argue the reason they wanted to self govern until the cows come home, it really doesn't matter. They no longer recognized the authority of Washington DC just as the USA no longer recognized the authority of the Crown 80 years prior.

To state their cause was "wrong" is to state our cause was wrong in 1776, because they only difference is the USA won it's war for independence.

They were wrong, the reason they left was because of a perceived threat to Slavery when in fact they had as much clout in the Congress as they did BEFORE lincoln was elected and a President alone could not change the Constitution nor state laws. They were worried that 20 years down the line Free States would out number the slave states enough to effect slavery, and instead of fighting politically to prevent that they instead cut their own throats and ended slavery in 3 years not 20.

*Sigh* Read the post again - the REASON is irrelevant. They wanted independence and they fought for it. Same as we did in 1776. If they were "wrong", so were we.

the REASON is irrelevant.

You all obviously want that to be the case. That's what the lost cause bullshit was meant to do. To change the narrative.
Its not irrelevant. Not at all.
The reason, the self stated reason by the confederate states, is exactly why those monuments and statues are being removed.

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Apparently the negros didn't.

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

But you didn't answer the question: Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

Liar.
Your revisionist bullshit isn't gonna fly.

The war, for the confederacy was first and foremost about the preservation of their perceived racial superiority, slavery and the economic advanges thereof. As always, don't take my word for it. Take theirs.

There is nothing else. The fact that the average rube, not unlike yourself, never understood that is irrelevant to the fact that they were indeed fighting toward those ends.

Which of those self stated principles of the confederacy, racial superiority, slavery or the economic exploitation of said slaves through forced labor, deserve continued veneration in American society today?

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together.

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together

Derp....
The reason for the confederacy, fool. They weren't fighting to preserve the union. They were fighting to preserve their way of life.
The confederate states threatened civil war for years over the movement toward abolition. They started the war.

The federal were fighting to preserve the union, you fucking moron. No one said the Confederacy was. The were trying to secede.

How much of a dumbass can you be ?

Hey retard. The confederate losers started the war and they seceded.

Wrong. I have already proven they didn't. Lincoln invaded Virginia.

The only thing you've ever proven is that you are retarded. The confederate losers attacked Ft Sumter first on April 12, 1861 and got their asses beat down in the end.

You keep posting "Confederate losers" as if that is gonna upset someone here.

Your game is weak.

You wouldnt have brought up my use of the term confederate losers if it didnt upset you.

 

[Asclepias]

You'd have to ask the GOP that question. They are the ones that apologized for using the southern strategy.

A couple of GOP did that, moron. They don't speak for the entire Republican party.

The Republican National Committee chairmen dont speak for the party? Yeah you may want to try convincing someone of that who is brain damaged like yourself.

He may speak for a handfull of party elites, but he doesn't speak for the rank and file. Michael Steal wasn't even around then. That was 40 years before he made the claim. It's horseshit.

 

[Nostra]

It wasn't an act of war, nimrod. Ft Sumter was SC territory. Firing on your own territory is not an act of war, period.

Title had passed to the US government.

"Title" means it's just a piece of property. Walmart is not a separate country. It's part of the state where I live. It has the same exact kind of "title" to the property it sits on as the federal government had with respect to Ft Sumter. It's part of South Carolina. Of course you will idiotically continue to post this already debunked claim because otherwise you will have to admit that the federal government made war on the State of South Carolina.

Actually RETARD the US Government is different then the State and while it may allow some state laws to be enforced reserves the right to make it that FEDERAL law applies to that property, go ahead and go to a US Base and READ the sign posted before you enter.

Wrong, turd, the federal government cannot treat the property of Ft Sumter differnt than it can treat the property of any other state. The federal government cannot just nullify state laws.

Your claim is 100% bullshit.

LOL a State has NO authority on Federal land EXCEPT what the Federal Government cedes to it. Try this dumb ass if a Military member commits a crime on federal property Federal NOT state authorities have jurisdiction and a Military Court determines the punishment.

That was a Federal claim at the time and one of the things that was thought to be a violation of States' rights. After secession the CSA was the federal government of SC.

Wrong the Constitution is clear the President and Congress CAN declare martial law and order troops to put down insurrection. If as you claim anyone at any time can simply declare they are no longer part of the US then there would be NO such clause as it would be meaningless.

Secession is not insurrection.

Nothing in the Constitution says that states cannot secede from the Union.

That ass whooping said you couldnt secede. Give it a rest. The south will never rise again.

Maybe so but you took a very serious ass-whooping of your own to make it stick.

if you havent found something worth dying to gain then you havent lived. My ancestors killed up some racist honkys so I could be free.

If you are black it is much more likely that it was my white ancestors who did that deed. Somehow you don't seem all that grateful.

Your white ancestors didnt fight to free me. They fought to keep the union together and make sure the south didnt start enslaving other whites.

Your black ancestors didn't fight to free you either, moron.

Of course they did. They killed a bunch of honkys to make sure I wouldnt have to be born a slave.

Where you born? I bet you were not born in a southern state. In fact I don't think you're from the United States of America. I'll bet Toronto is where you live.

I was born in Oakland. My mom was born in Mississippi. I didnt ask what you bet or where you think I'm from. None of that is relevant to the point that my ancestors killed a bunch of honkys to make sure I was born free.

"Honky's"? Who are you, Fred Sanford?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

My bad. It was a SCOTUS decision. 1812

???

What decision?

It was completely unclear until the war. It was not legally cleared up until Texas v. White.

SCOTUS decision based on New Englands flirtation with secession in 1812.

Can you give me a cite, or even a name?

Hartford Convention | Federalist Party, Secession, New England

Hartford Convention, (December 15, 1814–January 5, 1815), in U.S. history, a secret meeting in Hartford, Connecticut, of Federalist delegates from Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Vermont who were dissatisfied with Pres. James Madison’s mercantile policies and the

www.britannica.com

A secret meeting is not a SCOTUS decision. I don't get what you are trying to show me.

The issue of whether secession was legal was still debatable all the way up to the end of the war, and legally not clarified until 1869.

Unless you have something else, there was no absolute duty to remain in the Union and nothing binding about it.

 

[Nostra]

To me Confederate flags honor family members who died honorably fighting bravely for a good cause.

Fighting against the United States of America and in support of maintaining slavery is a good cause?

The simple fact is that the South wanted to self govern. You can argue the reason they wanted to self govern until the cows come home, it really doesn't matter. They no longer recognized the authority of Washington DC just as the USA no longer recognized the authority of the Crown 80 years prior.

To state their cause was "wrong" is to state our cause was wrong in 1776, because they only difference is the USA won it's war for independence.

They were wrong, the reason they left was because of a perceived threat to Slavery when in fact they had as much clout in the Congress as they did BEFORE lincoln was elected and a President alone could not change the Constitution nor state laws. They were worried that 20 years down the line Free States would out number the slave states enough to effect slavery, and instead of fighting politically to prevent that they instead cut their own throats and ended slavery in 3 years not 20.

*Sigh* Read the post again - the REASON is irrelevant. They wanted independence and they fought for it. Same as we did in 1776. If they were "wrong", so were we.

the REASON is irrelevant.

You all obviously want that to be the case. That's what the lost cause bullshit was meant to do. To change the narrative.
Its not irrelevant. Not at all.
The reason, the self stated reason by the confederate states, is exactly why those monuments and statues are being removed.

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Apparently the negros didn't.

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

But you didn't answer the question: Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

Liar.
Your revisionist bullshit isn't gonna fly.

The war, for the confederacy was first and foremost about the preservation of their perceived racial superiority, slavery and the economic advanges thereof. As always, don't take my word for it. Take theirs.

There is nothing else. The fact that the average rube, not unlike yourself, never understood that is irrelevant to the fact that they were indeed fighting toward those ends.

Which of those self stated principles of the confederacy, racial superiority, slavery or the economic exploitation of said slaves through forced labor, deserve continued veneration in American society today?

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together.

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together

Derp....
The reason for the confederacy, fool. They weren't fighting to preserve the union. They were fighting to preserve their way of life.
The confederate states threatened civil war for years over the movement toward abolition. They started the war.

The federal were fighting to preserve the union, you fucking moron. No one said the Confederacy was. The were trying to secede.

How much of a dumbass can you be ?

Hey retard. The confederate losers started the war and they seceded.

Wrong. I have already proven they didn't. Lincoln invaded Virginia.

The only thing you've ever proven is that you are retarded. The confederate losers attacked Ft Sumter first on April 12, 1861 and got their asses beat down in the end.

You keep posting "Confederate losers" as if that is gonna upset someone here.

Your game is weak.

You wouldnt have brought up my use of the term confederate losers if it didnt upset you.

Why would you think it upsets me? And why am I not shocked you are too stupid to realize when you are being mocked?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Did them Duke Boys paint a Rebel Flag on their roof to celebrate their hatred of the United States or to remind “negroes” of their proper place?

Did you ask that question in 1980? (you didn't)

I think the show made it pretty clear that they were simply celebrating the South. They were "good ole" Southern boys.

The fact that you are JUST NOW offended by this symbol of "U.S. hatred" or device of "intimidation" makes you look REALLY pathetic.

The fact that you defend a slavery flag is pathetic

You do realize our star spangled banner flew over a slave nation for 89 years, right? The one you get your panties in a twist over only flew for 4.

You do realize our star spangled banner flew over a slave nation for 89 years, right? The one you get your panties in a twist over only flew for 4.

Then they corrected their course and did the right thing. Just as we are now.

And, so did the Southern states, right? They are doing the right thing now, right?

And, so did the Southern states, right? They are doing the right thing now, right?

LOL...
Really? When?
They've been and still are being dragged into change by massive movements of protests and actions by the federal govt.
The vote to change the Mississippi flag came only after overwhelming threats of economic boycotts.

On the one hand, you are dismissing the fact that for 89 years the star sparkled banner flew over a slave nation, and you have no problem with it. To you, the U.S. changed their ways. So they DO NOT need to change the flag.

On the other hand, you are claiming that the South DIDN'T correct their ways and are NOT doing things right SOLELY BECAUSE they haven't CHANGED THEIR FLAG.

Do you hear yourself?

 

[Asclepias]

To me Confederate flags honor family members who died honorably fighting bravely for a good cause.

Fighting against the United States of America and in support of maintaining slavery is a good cause?

The simple fact is that the South wanted to self govern. You can argue the reason they wanted to self govern until the cows come home, it really doesn't matter. They no longer recognized the authority of Washington DC just as the USA no longer recognized the authority of the Crown 80 years prior.

To state their cause was "wrong" is to state our cause was wrong in 1776, because they only difference is the USA won it's war for independence.

They were wrong, the reason they left was because of a perceived threat to Slavery when in fact they had as much clout in the Congress as they did BEFORE lincoln was elected and a President alone could not change the Constitution nor state laws. They were worried that 20 years down the line Free States would out number the slave states enough to effect slavery, and instead of fighting politically to prevent that they instead cut their own throats and ended slavery in 3 years not 20.

*Sigh* Read the post again - the REASON is irrelevant. They wanted independence and they fought for it. Same as we did in 1776. If they were "wrong", so were we.

the REASON is irrelevant.

You all obviously want that to be the case. That's what the lost cause bullshit was meant to do. To change the narrative.
Its not irrelevant. Not at all.
The reason, the self stated reason by the confederate states, is exactly why those monuments and statues are being removed.

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Apparently the negros didn't.

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

But you didn't answer the question: Do people have the right to self-determination or not?

Sure they did. But the vast majority of them chose not to fight for it.

Liar.
Your revisionist bullshit isn't gonna fly.

The war, for the confederacy was first and foremost about the preservation of their perceived racial superiority, slavery and the economic advanges thereof. As always, don't take my word for it. Take theirs.

There is nothing else. The fact that the average rube, not unlike yourself, never understood that is irrelevant to the fact that they were indeed fighting toward those ends.

Which of those self stated principles of the confederacy, racial superiority, slavery or the economic exploitation of said slaves through forced labor, deserve continued veneration in American society today?

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together.

That was their reason for secession. I agree. It's undeniable.

It was NOT the reason for the war, which was to keep the union together

Derp....
The reason for the confederacy, fool. They weren't fighting to preserve the union. They were fighting to preserve their way of life.
The confederate states threatened civil war for years over the movement toward abolition. They started the war.

The federal were fighting to preserve the union, you fucking moron. No one said the Confederacy was. The were trying to secede.

How much of a dumbass can you be ?

Hey retard. The confederate losers started the war and they seceded.

Wrong. I have already proven they didn't. Lincoln invaded Virginia.

The only thing you've ever proven is that you are retarded. The confederate losers attacked Ft Sumter first on April 12, 1861 and got their asses beat down in the end.

You keep posting "Confederate losers" as if that is gonna upset someone here.

Your game is weak.

You wouldnt have brought up my use of the term confederate losers if it didnt upset you.

Why would you think it upsets me? And why am I not shocked you are too stupid to realize when you are being mocked?

I think it upsets you because you brought it up and no one else even noticed. They were the confederate losers..

 

[bripat9643]

You'd have to ask the GOP that question. They are the ones that apologized for using the southern strategy.

A couple of GOP did that, moron. They don't speak for the entire Republican party.

The Republican National Committee chairmen dont speak for the party? Yeah you may want to try convincing someone of that who is brain damaged like yourself.

He may speak for a handfull of party elites, but he doesn't speak for the rank and file. Michael Steal wasn't even around then. That was 40 years before he made the claim. It's horseshit.

Who the fuck is this guy?