The End of ALL Entitlements

[AtlasWept]

Probably a better way would be to say "If you've worked less than 5 years, you get X amount of money, if you've worked 5-10 years you get X+Y amount and if you've worked more than 10 then you get X+Z amount"

Well, I'm looking for philosophical responses regarding the elimination of all entitlement program -- regarding country/cultural change in ten years. Specifics as to compensation is going astray from that.

 

[AtlasWept]

Reparations.

That would certainly be considered an "entitlement" to be eliminated (or never allowed).

 

[Lakhota]

I am curious to hear from all of you in response to the following hypothetical question:

If all entitlements were to end tomorrow, what do you think would be the state of our culture and economy in ten years?

By the way, under this notion, American citizens would receive compensation to direct contribution programs such as Social Security, but ONLY to the amount each individual paid into that program. And I apologize in advance if this type of thread is posted in the wrong forum of this site.

What about the interest on the amount each individual paid into that program?

 

[BS Filter]

What about the interest on the amount each individual paid into that program?

The government uses it for other things. It should go to the citizens who paid in.

 

[AtlasWept]

I'll preface my answer stating that other than Social Security, I'm totally unexperienced with the topic.

I'll therefore limit my response to my belief that without government entitlements the church would take on a greater role. I decline of the church in the mid-sixties coincides with the broadening of government social welfare progra

What about the interest on the amount each individual paid into that program?

Not germaine. Whatever you feel is just. If it makes it easier, then imagine all of the programs never existed. What would America look like now -- culturally, ethically, etc.? I'm not soliciting a right or wrong answer. I'm just curious about other people's vision.

 

[dblack]

How is it an entitlement if a person has paid into the system their entire working life?

How is it not?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, I'm looking for philosophical responses regarding the elimination of all entitlement program -- regarding country/cultural change in ten years. Specifics as to compensation is going astray from that.

Well, if you want to know what it'd be like, why not look at countries where they don't have such entitlements.

China has very little in the way of unemployment benefits, and youth unemployment is supposed to be up at around 20%, so they rely on their families.

However the family structure is falling apart, becoming more like the US.

Even with entitlements the US has a huge homelessness problem... that would just grow.

If you want to create a situation where people have the right mentality from childhood, you need something like I said, just taking away entitlements would probably lead to the collapse of society, which might happen anyway.

 

[AtlasWept]

How is it not?

Your question is basically what I was attempting to communicate about my confusion.

 

[dblack]

I am curious to hear from all of you in response to the following hypothetical question:

If all entitlements were to end tomorrow, what do you think would be the state of our culture and economy in ten years?

Depends on how we went about it. If all entitlements ended tomorrow, with no sane transition, things would be a real mess, likely for ten to twenty years. But we'd find other ways to take care of those in need and sort it out eventually.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

How is it an entitlement if a person has paid into the system their entire working life?

It’s not. It was theft. If you can’t opt out it’s not an entitlement or a benefit.

 

[lg325]

Terrific article on the subject from the Clinton administration. I remember this. To post it I would have to pay for it. So here is a link to read it.

www.cambridge.org › core › journalsThe Early American Origins of En​

 

[AtlasWept]

Depends on how we went about it. If all entitlements ended tomorrow, with no sane transition, things would be a real mess, likely for ten to twenty years. But we'd find other ways to take care of those in need and sort it out eventually.

Okay. You are correct that it would be messy, but I think that goes without saying. I was hoping for something with greater depth -- particularly with regard to the impact on the mentality of our culture -- of what that mentality would change to. But thank you, nonetheless.

 

[lg325]

I would take it back to 1920. What entitlements did we fund then?

Veterans benefits for one they were entitled to land.

 

[AtlasWept]

Veterans benefits for one they were entitled to land.

Veterans benefits for one they were entitled to land.

Okay. But what would America look like if we hadn't added any entitlements after that year?

 

[AtlasWept]

Well, if you want to know what it'd be like, why not look at countries where they don't have such entitlements.

China has very little in the way of unemployment benefits, and youth unemployment is supposed to be up at around 20%, so they rely on their families.

However the family structure is falling apart, becoming more like the US.

Even with entitlements the US has a huge homelessness problem... that would just grow.

If you want to create a situation where people have the right mentality from childhood, you need something like I said, just taking away entitlements would probably lead to the collapse of society, which might happen anyway.

Entitlements facilitate denial -- denial of individual guilt in their own failings. They serve as distractions -- factories that create evasion, rationalization, and blame shifting (anything but unvarnished truth).

 

[frigidweirdo]

Entitlements facilitate denial -- denial of individual guilt in their own failings. They serve as distractions -- factories that create evasion, rationalization, and blame shifting (anything but unvarnished truth).

I'm not sure what "individual guilt" has to do about anything.

We have benefits for when things get bad for people. The problem comes when people can get benefits when they should be working.

 

[AtlasWept]

I'm not sure what "individual guilt" has to do about anything.

We have benefits for when things get bad for people. The problem comes when people can get benefits when they should be working.

No, the problem comes when the government gets into the charity business.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, the problem comes when the government gets into the charity business.

It's not "charity", people pay into it, and then they benefit if they don't have a job.

 

[AtlasWept]

It's not "charity", people pay into it, and then they benefit if they don't have a job.

Save money for a rainy day. It's not foolproof, but it's what Americans did for the generations prior to the government safety net mentality took root. People want Social Security? Then save 7.6% of your income ever month -- the same thing government does for them.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Save money for a rainy day. It's not foolproof, but it's what Americans did for the generations prior to the government safety net mentality took root. People want Social Security? Then save 7.6% of your income ever month -- the same thing government does for them.

"It's not foolproof"... I mean, you just about summed up why most governments have a safety net.

Some people can't afford to save 7.6% of their income.