Zone1 The Economist/YouGov Poll on Belief in the Holocaust

[MarcATL]

Interesting. The irony in, and of, this thread is palpable.

 

[Cougarbear]

No, the Holocaust is the most heavily hyped and crassly exploited tragedy due to Hollywood's participation in Holocaust propaganda and the political influence around the world of the international, multi billion dollar Holocaust Industry.

How can the Holocaust qualify as a true genocide when Jews were among the Nazi Party leadership and 150,000 Jews served in Germany's WW 2 military?

There is absolutely no evidence that there was ever a genocidal German Agenda to kill all of Europe's Jews. I've read the Wannsee Minutes and related documents in the original German and the German Zionist Federation worked closely with Germany's National Socialists to transfer Jews to Palestine under the Haavara Agreement.
At the Evian Conference, the German Zionist Federation blocked the ability for Jews to go anywhere but Palestine but the war made that impossible.

For example:
“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”

Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).

Ben-Gurion’s Notorious Quotes: Their Polemical Uses & Abuses

I’ve been engaged in a long-term e-mail debate with anti-Zionists, associated with David McReynolds, a former leader of the War Resisters’ League and a tiny remnant that still calls itself the Socialist Party, USA. Seth Farber, one of the most vociferous (although not quite the nastiest) of my...

www.progressiveisrael.org

Finally, there are written orders from Stalin for mass murder and their are written orders from Eisenhower for the mass murder of nearly one million German POWs and civilians but no written order from Hitler for the killing of Germany's Jews:

“To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”

- Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution”), (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190

George Orwell who was intimately familiar with propaganda wrote:


"Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past."

Forbes Quotes

150,000 Germans of partial Jewish descent served in the Wehrmacht, the Luftwaffe, and the Kriegsmarine during WW2, but all were raised Christian and unlike the German Jews who were sent to camps or killed, they kept their citizenship, weren’t banned from school or university, and for the most part, they had the same rights as “Aryan” Germans. 90,000 of the soldiers had 1 Jewish grandparent and 60,000 had 2 Jewish grandparents, but if they practiced Judaism, they would have lost their citizenship and wouldn’t have been allowed to serve in the military. There were a few senior officers including the #2 man in the Luftwaffe (Field Marshal Milch), Admirals, and Generals who were either half Jewish, 1/4 Jewish, or 1/8 Jewish that Hitler granted German Blood Certifications declaring them to be “Aryan” because he needed experienced senior officers. Goring had Field Marsal Milch’s mother file an affidavit declaring that her dead uncle, not her Jewish husband, was the father of all of her children in order to get his German Blood Declaration.

 

[Grau]

150,000 Germans of partial Jewish descent served in the Wehrmacht, the Luftwaffe, and the Kriegsmarine during WW2, but all were raised Christian and unlike the German Jews who were sent to camps or killed, they kept their citizenship, weren’t banned from school or university, and for the most part, they had the same rights as “Aryan” Germans. 90,000 of the soldiers had 1 Jewish grandparent and 60,000 had 2 Jewish grandparents, but if they practiced Judaism, they would have lost their citizenship and wouldn’t have been allowed to serve in the military. There were a few senior officers including the #2 man in the Luftwaffe (Field Marshal Milch), Admirals, and Generals who were either half Jewish, 1/4 Jewish, or 1/8 Jewish that Hitler granted German Blood Certifications declaring them to be “Aryan” because he needed experienced senior officers. Goring had Field Marsal Milch’s mother file an affidavit declaring that her dead uncle, not her Jewish husband, was the father of all of her children in order to get his German Blood Declaration.

Thanks for your contribution but you omitted 2 salient facts:

1. Many of the Jewish individuals who were either high ranking Nazi Party members or in Hitler's military were full Jews (1), (2)

Not all Jews were persecuted and most went about their business with minimal restrictions.
Primarily, Jews with connections to the Communist or resistance groups were targets.

My question was: "How can the Holocaust be considered a true genocide when Jews were among the persecutors?"

Thanks,


(1). “List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

EXCERPT “Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent. “ CONTINUED

(2). Hitler's Jewish Army


EXCERPTS "Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called 'full Jews' served in the German military with Adolf Hitler's knowledge and approval.
Cambridge University researcher Bryan Rigg has traced the Jewish ancestry of more than 1,200 of Hitler's soldiers, including
Two field marshals Fifteen generals Two full generals
,
Eight lieutenant generals
,
Five major generals
, "commanding up to 100,000 troops."
In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded Germany's highest military honor, the Knight's Cross." CONTINUED

 

[Cougarbear]

Thanks for your contribution but you omitted 2 salient facts:

1. Many of the Jewish individuals who were either high ranking Nazi Party members or in Hitler's military were full Jews (1), (2)

Not all Jews were persecuted and most went about their business with minimal restrictions.
Primarily, Jews with connections to the Communist or resistance groups were targets.

My question was: "How can the Holocaust be considered a true genocide when Jews were among the persecutors?"

Thanks,


(1). “List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

EXCERPT “Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent. “ CONTINUED

(2). Hitler's Jewish Army


EXCERPTS "Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called 'full Jews' served in the German military with Adolf Hitler's knowledge and approval.
Cambridge University researcher Bryan Rigg has traced the Jewish ancestry of more than 1,200 of Hitler's soldiers, including
Two field marshals Fifteen generals Two full generals
,
Eight lieutenant generals
,
Five major generals
, "commanding up to 100,000 troops."
In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded Germany's highest military honor, the Knight's Cross." CONTINUED

You simply have liars speaking about this. Of course they would lie to keep from being executed for war crimes. Trying to pass the killing of 6 million Jews to Jews is like passing the deaths of 1200 Israelis at a music concert to Israel and saying it was Israel that killed their own people.
George Soros is an example of a fascist Jew that would kill his own people. An Uncle Tom. The fact is those 150,000 were Nazi Fascist Christians in which most if it all were atheists or Agnostics that did not believe in a literal God.

 

[JoeB131]

George Soros is an example of a fascist Jew that would kill his own people. An Uncle Tom. The fact is those 150,000 were Nazi Fascist Christians in which most if it all were atheists or Agnostics that did not believe in a literal God.

George Soros was 9 years old when WWII Broke out.

 

[Cougarbear]

George Soros was 9 years old when WWII Broke out.

Are you that dense to understand a likeness or example-like?

 

[Grau]

You simply have liars speaking about this. Of course they would lie to keep from being executed for war crimes. Trying to pass the killing of 6 million Jews to Jews is like passing the deaths of 1200 Israelis at a music concert to Israel and saying it was Israel that killed their own people.
George Soros is an example of a fascist Jew that would kill his own people. An Uncle Tom. The fact is those 150,000 were Nazi Fascist Christians in which most if it all were atheists or Agnostics that did not believe in a literal God.

Who is lying about what?
A Jewish historian, Bryan Mark Rigg, has relied not only on personal accounts but documentation from Washington DC to Moscow.
Nobody has attempted to refute his findings that Jewish individuals were high ranking military and Nazi Party officials.

The definition of a genocide has to do with one ethnic, religious or national group trying to wipe out another. In WW 2 Germany, Jews were participants in the persecution of other Jews.
That's not a "genocide".

The systematic mass murder of Gaza's residents by Netanyahu and his henchmen is genocide because it's one group against another.

By the way, it's a well known fact that the trigger happy IDF has, indeed, killed other Israelis and even hostages waving white flags.

 

[Cougarbear]

Who is lying about what?
A Jewish historian, Bryan Mark Rigg, has relied not only on personal accounts but documentation from Washington DC to Moscow.
Nobody has attempted to refute his findings that Jewish individuals were high ranking military and Nazi Party officials.

The definition of a genocide has to do with one ethnic, religious or national group trying to wipe out another. In WW 2 Germany, Jews were participants in the persecution of other Jews.
That's not a "genocide".

The systematic mass murder of Gaza's residents by Netanyahu and his henchmen is genocide because it's one group against another.

By the way, it's a well known fact that the trigger happy IDF has, indeed, killed other Israelis and even hostages waving white flags.

Again, they may have been born by a former Jewish woman, a father previously Jewish, but identified as Christian.
Let’s review. In about 2006, the Gaza people were allowed to move in and elect their leaders. 98% voted for Hamas, a terrorist group backed by Iran, a terrorist country. There has been no movement to have Hamas replaced by the people. Therefore, the people in Gaza are Hamas. It’s unfortunate that innocent children die in war. A war started by Hamas or the Palestinian people. After years of daily attacks in one form or another on people living and working in Israel, including Palestinians, it’s time to remove the Hamas leaders and fighters. The people could stop this by giving up the Hamas leaders and fighters. But, they don’t. So, death of the innocent, Howbeit, small, will unfortunately happen. Israel has the right to defend itself and win the war.

 

[irosie91]

Again, they may have been born by a former Jewish woman, a father previously Jewish, but identified as Christian.
Let’s review. In about 2006, the Gaza people were allowed to move in and elect their leaders. 98% voted for Hamas, a terrorist group backed by Iran, a terrorist country. There has been no movement to have Hamas replaced by the people. Therefore, the people in Gaza are Hamas. It’s unfortunate that innocent children die in war. A war started by Hamas or the Palestinian people. After years of daily attacks in one form or another on people living and working in Israel, including Palestinians, it’s time to remove the Hamas leaders and fighters. The people could stop this by giving up the Hamas leaders and fighters. But, they don’t. So, death of the innocent, Howbeit, small, will unfortunately happen. Israel has the right to defend itself and win the war.

give up---HOLOCAUST DENIAL is a religion---it
has been adopted by millions of persons of the
UMMAH and CHRISTENDOM----it has actual
FAITH WRITINGS akin to "SCRIPTURES"

 

[Cougarbear]

give up---HOLOCAUST DENIAL is a religion---it
has been adopted by millions of persons of the
UMMAH and CHRISTENDOM----it has actual
FAITH WRITINGS akin to "SCRIPTURES"

Why give up? If we don't respond, then others who read their nonsense will believe them. It's pretty sick but it is a sign of our situation in the world. The 2nd Coming of Christ is closer than ever!

 

[irosie91]

Why give up? If we don't respond, then others who read their nonsense will believe them. It's pretty sick but it is a sign of our situation in the world. The 2nd Coming of Christ is closer than ever!

oh---that's a religion too. Try to convince a
muslim that the KORAN was not written at the time of "CREATION" (to wit, genesis) ---ie long
before arabic had an alphabet

 

[Cougarbear]

oh---that's a religion too. Try to convince a
muslim that the KORAN was not written at the time of "CREATION" (to wit, genesis) ---ie long
before arabic had an alphabet

Those that read the Holocaust denying posts are not all Muslims. Many are just your ordinary Nazi leftovers with nothing more than to cause death and destruction to Jews, Blacks, LGBTQ and any others they happen to hate on any given day.

 

[irosie91]

Those that read the Holocaust denying posts are not all Muslims. Many are just your ordinary Nazi leftovers with nothing more than to cause death and destruction to Jews, Blacks, LGBTQ and any others they happen to hate on any given day.

yes---Holocaust denial is rampant in Christendom and the Ummah---much more
so in the UMMAH because it is actually TAUGHT in muslim schools and mosques. I have also
worked with Hindus---not Holocaust denial

 

[irosie91]

yes---Holocaust denial is rampant in Christendom and the Ummah---much more
so in the UMMAH because it is actually TAUGHT in muslim schools and mosques. I have also
worked with Hindus---no Holocaust denial

 

[Cougarbear]

yes---Holocaust denial is rampant in Christendom and the Ummah---much more
so in the UMMAH because it is actually TAUGHT in muslim schools and mosques. I have also
worked with Hindus---not Holocaust denial

I don't find much Holocaust denying in Christian Churches. I'm sure there are with the KKK and likes of them. But, they are rather few in the big picture of 9 billion people world-wide.

 

[irosie91]

I don't find much Holocaust denying in Christian Churches. I'm sure there are with the KKK and likes of them. But, they are rather few in the big picture of 9 billion people world-wide.

yes----lately even in the town of my (remote---sob--) childhood-----but lots of things changed even there----NOW THERE ARE BLACKS LIVING IN THAT REACTIONARY TOWN !!!!!!!

 

[Cougarbear]

yes----lately even in the town of my (remote---sob--) childhood-----but lots of things changed even there----NOW THERE ARE BLACKS LIVING IN THAT REACTIONARY TOWN !!!!!!!

Oh no! Blacks are living in your town! ??? What does that have to do with Holocaust deniers?

 

[irosie91]

Oh no! Blacks are living in your town! ??? What does that have to do with Holocaust deniers?

Back in THE DAY----the same sort of reactionary
WASPS who denied da holocaust----also developed "restricted towns" ----somehow the first rejects that they ALLOWED ----were Irish catholics----but then, regrettably JOOOS FOLLOWED----it was the BABY BOOM YEARS

 

[Cougarbear]

Back in THE DAY----the same sort of reactionary
WASPS who denied da holocaust----also developed "restricted towns" ----somehow the first rejects that they ALLOWED ----were Irish catholics----but then, regrettably JOOOS FOLLOWED----it was the BABY BOOM YEARS

You didn't answer the question. You just showed you hate Blacks, Jews and everyone else. Even yourself?

 

[irosie91]

You didn't answer the question. You just showed you hate Blacks, Jews and everyone else. Even yourself?

wrong---I describe the core population of my childhood town. The town was formed Pre-revolutionary war-----and its core population was-----VERY VERY WASP---aka "hicks". They
were even still fishing and hunting with "buckshot" rifles. From the standpoint of original americana ----it was interesting