Zone1 The Economist/YouGov Poll on Belief in the Holocaust

[Mac-7]

They don’t even know when WWII was!

Or who was on which side thanks to our incompetent educators

 

[Anomalism]

Not really. Most people are ignorant of history in General. The problem with HS History education is that it is mostly focused on the US and the School Year often runs out before they get to World War II and the Holocaust. (My own HS History course ended right at World War I before Summer break at a fairly elite Catholic HS).

What your poll doesn't distinguish is between "I never heard about it" and "I heard about it, but I don't believe it actually happened!"

So a lot of kids might not know about the Holocaust because they simply weren't taught about it.

A lot of Americans don't know about the Armenian Genocide, the Killing Fields of Cambodia, the Rape of Nanjing, and a whole parade of other human horrors. If anything, the Holocaust is probably one of the better-known ones.

Kids today can't read an old school hand clock. Not surprised that they barely understand history.

 

[JoeB131]

Kids today can't read an old school hand clock. Not surprised that they barely understand history.

Why would they need to? Digital clocks are much more accurate.

I also doubt that is true. About 16% of people can't read analog clocks, but that's in part because they are actually hard to read, if you can't quite tell where the hands are.

Now, on to history. Yes, most kids don't understand history, but that's because, frankly, if you aren't interested in it, you don't care. It's that boring subject you can't wait to get out of in HS.

 

[Grau]

Holy shit, man, get fucking professional help. YOU ARE NOT A WELL MAN!!!


I wouldn't know what you claim was said. The fact is, six million Jews and five million others being exterminated was documented by the Germans themselves.


Wow... man, you need to lay off the crazy.


How do the Roswell Aliens work into this? You can't have a true batshit conspiracy theory without Rosewell Aliens, man.


Really? Name one. Who was the highest Ranking Jew who fought for Nazi Germany? Not someone who had a Jew somewhere back in his family tree, but full-blooded Jews who were fine with what Hitler was doing.



Hindus? Never mind, I don't want to know.
I am sure a lot of people who have never known a major war in their lifetime probably have a hard time getting their heads around the pure numbers of horror of World War II.

My dad liberated a concentration camp. He had nightmares for the rest of his life from what he saw in WWII. I have no great love for the Israelis, but when I hear a holocaust denier, all I can say is, "Fuck you!"



Well, it's nowhere near a "vast majority". While the polls are a bit disheartening, the vast majority of people in the world know that the Holocaust happened.

Once again, you have been both evasive and unable to refute anything I have written and supported.
Now that you've been entirely unable to support anything you have been duped into believing, you must resort to insults, distortions and slander.
Those three common ploys are common among gullible, lazy and poorly educated people who blindly believe anything the fraudulent Holocaust Industry has poured into their head via Hollywood and pro Israel MSM.

Next, I have never denied that the Holocaust happened so you'll have to change your meaningless label from "Holocaust denier". I simply don't believe in the innumerable lies and physical impossibilities that comprise the standard Holocaust story nor does most of the planet.

While the sources behind your opinions are only one individual and what you see on TV, I've known dozens of Holocaust survivors, WW 2 Veterans of various nationalities, and civilian survivors of WW2. I've also studied the topic for 60 years and read salient WW 2 documents in the original German.

I see no point in wasting more time on snarky and gullible individuals who know so little about the topic at hand except what the fraudulent Holocaust Industry allows via MSM.

Please read more and watch less TV.

 

[JoeB131]

Once again, you have been both evasive and unable to refute anything I have written and supported.

What part of "Fuck You" was unclear to you?

Now that you've been entirely unable to support anything you have been duped into believing, you must resort to insults, distortions and slander.
Those three common ploys are common among gullible, lazy and poorly educated people who blindly believe anything the fraudulent Holocaust Industry has poured into their head via Hollywood and pro Israel MSM.

My Dad liberated a concentration Camp. He showed me the pictures. Really, that's kind of the end of the discussion for me.

My Dad was hardly "pro-Jewish". He was a German-American and brought all that resentment with him. But he saw what he saw.

The Holocaust happened, and it was every bit as bad as they said it was.

Next, I have never denied that the Holocaust happened so you'll have to change your meaningless label from "Holocaust denier". I simply don't believe in the innumerable lies and physical impossibilities that comprise the standard Holocaust story nor does most of the planet.

While the sources behind your opinions are only one individual and what you see on TV, I've known dozens of Holocaust survivors, WW 2 Veterans of various nationalities, and civilian survivors of WW2. I've also studied the topic for 60 years and read salient WW 2 documents in the original German.

And yet you remain piss ignorant.

I used to have discussions with a poster who ABSOLUTELY INSISTED that Sandy Hook was a hoax. You almost make him look like a decent person by comparison.

I see no point in wasting more time on snarky and gullible individuals who know so little about the topic at hand except what the fraudulent Holocaust Industry allows via MSM.

Please read more and watch less TV.

I have a bachelor's Degree in History. I wouldn't have gotten that if I engaged in Holocaust Denial like you do.

Oh, and one more time.

Fuck You!

 

[Weatherman2020]

Looking at the crosstabs regarding the question "Agreement with Statements about Israel — The Holocaust is a myth", there are some interesting results:

Of 18-29 year olds (Gen Z) 20% believe the Holocaust is a myth and 30% are unsure. Gee, I wonder where they're getting that from?

Among black Americans 13% agree with that statement, while 33% aren't sure.

Democrats are more inclined to believe it's a myth with 10% agreeing while 19% are unsure compared to 6% and 11% respectively among Republicans.

Urbanites and political moderates also have a higher belief in the myth claim than others.

It's astonishing how so many people can be so ignorant on this issue.

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_BOEC4TZ.pdf

View attachment 870404

Yet another failure of our education system.

 

[sparky]

Uh, dude, my Dad was with the First Army when it liberated a concentration camp called Nordhausen. Hollywood did not "Make it up".

My pop walked into Dachau in '44

I'm not claiming that the Holocaust never happened or that there were no deaths or no piles of bodies.
I'm simply stating that all sides engage in atrocity propaganda including the Allies and that the Holocaust Industry has proven itself to be untrustworthy.

all conflicts history has the bias of the victors ....

Oh, I agree, the Allies didn't do nearly enough to stop the Holocaust from happening.

They pretended it didn't exist, until they saw if first hand....much just like we pretend this doesn't>

Why do you believe anything claimed claimed by the fraudulent Holocaust Industry(2), (3) that has such a long history of lying, engaging in thousands of false restitution claims, long running scams, and infamous hoaxes such as the "human skin lampshades", "human fat soap", "human skin pocketbooks" and shrunken heads from far away?

No more than i believe hamas cooked babies.....

~S~

 

[Grau]

My pop walked into Dachau in '44

all conflicts history has the bias of the victors ....

They pretended it didn't exist, until they saw if first hand....much just like we pretend this doesn't>

View attachment 873453


No more than i believe hamas cooked babies.....

~S~

Thanks for your refreshingly calm and rational observations concerning a topic with the potential to elicit responses that are frequently not so calm and rational from Hollywood educated Holocaust cult fanatics.

Unfortunately, in the years I have participated in internet discussion forums I have yet to find anyone who actually believes the entire Holocaust narrative whose bigoted, anti German comments were not evasive, insulting and replete with unsupported cliche's and outright falsehoods.

The term "Holocaust denial" is simply a meaningless misnomer fabricated by a woman whose knowledge of the Holocaust is so limited that her $30 Million legal team prohibited her from debating David Irving.

"Holocaust denier", then, is only an inaccurate and simple label most frequently employed by those who are unable to discuss WW 2 and the Holocaust in an honest and civil manner.

It is as inaccurate as it is dishonest label because because it deliberately misrepresents the views of the intended target.
Only a very tiny number of people who know about the Holocaust claim that nothing happened to those who were real or perceived enemies of the state. Only they can honestly be called "Holocaust deniers"

On the other hand, the vast majority of the world's people agree that the Holocaust happened but reject the exaggerations and grotesque embellishment for profitable lies they are. (1)

According to a poll done for the ADL, that vast majority of the world's population does not deny that the Holocaust happened so referring to them as "Holocaust deniers" is a lazy and outright lie very common among Holocaustian fanatics who rely more heavily on slander, evasion and petty name calling than substantive discussion.

Thanks,



(1). ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”

The World Is Full of Holocaust Deniers

A new survey suggests that many Asians, Africans, Middle Easterners, young people, Muslims, and Hindus believe that facts about the genocide have been distorted.

www.theatlantic.com

EXCERPT “Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.

- Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth.

- Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."

- Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

- people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED

 

[sparky]

Thanks for your refreshingly calm and rational observations concerning a topic with the potential to elicit responses that are frequently not so calm and rational from Hollywood educated Holocaust cult fanatics.

Thanks for your informative posts Grau

On the other hand, the vast majority of the world's people agree that the Holocaust happened but reject the exaggerations and grotesque embellishment for profitable lies they are. (1)

The victors are always obfuscating the details for exactly that.

If one eventually concludes all conflict on this rock has some economic motivation, this then becomes clearer

This does not take much effort.....



~S~

 

[JoeB131]

Once again, you have been both evasive and unable to refute anything I have written and supported.
Now that you've been entirely unable to support anything you have been duped into believing, you must resort to insults, distortions and slander.
Those three common ploys are common among gullible, lazy and poorly educated people who blindly believe anything the fraudulent Holocaust Industry has poured into their head via Hollywood and pro Israel MSM.

Again, it's not really in dispute that 11-12 million people were killed in the Holocaust.

How Many People did the Nazis Murder?

Behind the number of victims of the Holocaust and Nazi persecution are people whose hopes and dreams were destroyed. Learn about the toll of Nazi policies.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

Next, I have never denied that the Holocaust happened so you'll have to change your meaningless label from "Holocaust denier". I simply don't believe in the innumerable lies and physical impossibilities that comprise the standard Holocaust story nor does most of the planet.

Actually, most of the planet acknowledges the number. Even this poll, as depressing as it is in people's IGNORANCE, still shows that the majority of young people know this happened.

While the sources behind your opinions are only one individual and what you see on TV, I've known dozens of Holocaust survivors, WW 2 Veterans of various nationalities, and civilian survivors of WW2. I've also studied the topic for 60 years and read salient WW 2 documents in the original German.

Um, yeah, you also claimed that people in Taiwan write in "Kanji", that Apartheid wasn't all that bad, really, and a bunch of other fucking crazy claims. Oh, yeah, and that you hob-knob with a shitload of important people, no, really. Why, however is Washington getting by without your wealth of knowledge?

I see no point in wasting more time on snarky and gullible individuals who know so little about the topic at hand except what the fraudulent Holocaust Industry allows via MSM.

I see a lot of fun in mocking self-important loons on USMB who try to pass themselves off as intellectuals.

 

[Grau]

Again, it's not really in dispute that 11-12 million people were killed in the Holocaust.

How Many People did the Nazis Murder?

Behind the number of victims of the Holocaust and Nazi persecution are people whose hopes and dreams were destroyed. Learn about the toll of Nazi policies.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

Actually, most of the planet acknowledges the number. Even this poll, as depressing as it is in people's IGNORANCE, still shows that the majority of young people know this happened.



Um, yeah, you also claimed that people in Taiwan write in "Kanji", that Apartheid wasn't all that bad, really, and a bunch of other fucking crazy claims. Oh, yeah, and that you hob-knob with a shitload of important people, no, really. Why, however is Washington getting by without your wealth of knowledge?



I see a lot of fun in mocking self-important loons on USMB who try to pass themselves off as intellectuals.

It seems that you are as confused as you are gullible and intellectually lazy.

Re:

Um, yeah, you also claimed that people in Taiwan write in "Kanji", that Apartheid wasn't all that bad, really, and a bunch of other fucking crazy claims. Oh, yeah, and that you hob-knob with a shitload of important people, no, really.

Where have I ever even mentioned Taiwan or that Apartheid "wasn't all that bad" or that I "hob nob" with "important people".

Your confusion seems to explain your typical "Holo-math" in which 1/3 is greater than 2/3 in regard to the ADL poll I cited earlier.

What part of: "Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts." leads you to conclude that "most" of the world believes the fraudulent Holocaust narrative?

Finally, the only source you could come up with, USHMM, is from the same Holocaust Industry that has been repeatedly caught deliberately lying and fabricating Holocaust stories for money over and over. (1), (2)

Of course USHMM / the Holocaust Industry is going to grossly exaggerate casualty numbers to extract more money to keep their grisly yet profitable Holocaust theme parks open.

Is there anything that they could claim that you wouldn't believe?

Re: I see a lot of fun in mocking self-important loons on USMB who try to pass themselves off as intellectuals.

If demonstrating your confusion, gullibility and intellectual laziness is "fun" for you, please don't let me stop you from showing how little you know about WW 2 and the Holocaust.


(1) "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED



(2) "HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"

Holocaust Claims Conference fraud likely ‘much higher’ than $57 million

For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.

www.jpost.com

EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED

 

[sparky]

the irony being a holocaust happening right now, along with the usual morbid cheerleaders denying it , is phenomenal proof of just what propaganda can do.....~S~

 

[Hector12]

When I encounter a Holocaust Denier I tell him that if the Holocaust did not happen, it needs to be the case that everyone who survived a Nazi concentration camp, and every soldier who liberated a Nazi concentration camp conspired to lie about what was happening in the camps.

 

[el midgetron]

Anyone who denies the Holocaust is ignorant of the history of eugenics. That said, what did happen is usually explored within very strict parameters.

“Operating in Palestine since 1940, the Zionist Lehi group of about 100 members, led by Abraham Stern, regarded the British Empire as its main enemy. In January 1941, they offered an anti-British partnership to Germany in exchange for allowing European Jews to emigrate to Palestine.[2]”

Jewish collaboration with Nazi Germany - Wikipedia

 

[Grau]

When I encounter a Holocaust Denier I tell him that if the Holocaust did not happen, it needs to be the case that everyone who survived a Nazi concentration camp, and every soldier who liberated a Nazi concentration camp conspired to lie about what was happening in the camps.

Since I have studied WW 2 and the Holocaust for at least 60 years and known dozens of Holocaust survivors, WW 2 Veterans of various nationalities and civilian Fire Bombing survivors, I have not once found anyone who claimed that the Holocaust never happened. They and only they are true "Holocaust deniers"

On the other hand I've met a countless number of experienced and knowledgeable people who are repulsed by the innumerable crass Holocaust extortion ploys, the grotesque exaggerations and grisly embellishments.

Again, this vast majority of the earth's population does believe that the Holocaust happened but does not believe the exaggerated casualty figures or grisly but physically impossible details behind the standard Holocaust narrative that has been exposed for the residual Allied propaganda that it is. (1)

America's propaganda ministry was called the O.W.I. (Office of War Information) and with the aid of Hollywood's creative movie moguls, (2), (3) they produced the most effective and durable propaganda of anyone in the war.

Therefore, what most people "know" about the Holocaust and WW 2 was produced under the guidance of the fraudulent Holocaust Industry and Hollywood's fiction writers and about as historically accurate as "The Dirty Dozen".

Finally, no two Holocaust survivors make the same claim (4) but those who deviate from the Holocaust Industry's fraudulent narrative are ignored at best but, more frequently they are widely slandered, tormented and even murdered for telling the truth.


Thanks,



(1). “Auschwitz: Myths and Facts”
Auschwitz: Myths and Facts

EXCERPT “Allied Propaganda"
"The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations." [15] CONTINUED

15. Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT "green series," Vol. 8, p. 606.


(2). “The Director of the Holocau$t - Khazar Expatriate Billy Wilder”

The Director of the Holocau$t - Khazar Expatriate Billy Wilder : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The Director of the Holocaust - Khazar Expatriate Billy Wilder Almost all the films you've ever seen of the Holocaust were staged. Using Allied propaganda as...

archive.org

EXCERPT “Almost all the films you've ever seen of the Holocaust were staged. Using Allied propaganda as a rough script, directors from Hollywood were shipped to Germany and Poland to direct propaganda films for post-war use. One of the most notable of these was Billy Wilder, director of meny very well known films, such as "Some Like It Hot" with Marilyn Monroe." CONTINUED



(3). "The Hollywood Directors Who Filmed the Liberation of Nazi Concentration Camps"
https://hyperallergic.com/426644/lamoth-filming-the-camps-the-holocaust/

EXCERPT "George Stevens, John Ford, and Samuel Fuller, best known for their work in Hollywood, all documented the Allied liberation at the end of the war.

But during this period of war, they were acting less as artists than as functionaries of US propaganda and information efforts, working for the US Armed Forces and Secret Services." CONTINUED



(4). "Auschwitz: Myths and Facts"
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

- EXCERPT " An Austrian woman, Maria Vanherwaarden, testified about her camp experiences in a Toronto District Court in March 1988. She was interned in Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1942 for having sexual relations with a Polish forced laborer. On the train journey to the camp, a Gypsy woman told her and the others that they would all be gassed at Auschwitz. Upon arrival, Maria and the other women were ordered to undress and go into a large concrete room without windows to take a shower. The terrified women were sure that they were about to die. But then, instead of gas, water came out of the shower heads." CONTINUED (2)

- EXCERPT " A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from Hungary in July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily. She likewise testified after the war that she heard and saw nothing of gas chambers during the time she was interned there. She heard the gassing stories only later." CONTINUED

 

[JoeB131]

It seems that you are as confused as you are gullible and intellectually lazy.

Nope, you are a conspiracy loon. The problem with conspiracy theorists is that no matter how many times you PROVE it was a weather balloon, they will insist up and down it was a flying saucer.

Where have I ever even mentioned Taiwan or that Apartheid "wasn't all that bad" or that I "hob nob" with "important people".

Other threads on racism, you talked extensively about how they used "Kanji" in Taiwan. (They don't. They use Traditional Hanzi, as opposed to the mainland which uses Simplified Hanzi.)

What part of: "Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts." leads you to conclude that "most" of the world believes the fraudulent Holocaust narrative?

That's not what the OP says. The OP says pretty clearly that 78% or so believe the Holocaust happened. The problem was younger people don't know about it because they weren't taught about it in school.

Finally, the only source you could come up with, USHMM, is from the same Holocaust Industry that has been repeatedly caught deliberately lying and fabricating Holocaust stories for money over and over. (1), (2)

Of course USHMM / the Holocaust Industry is going to grossly exaggerate casualty numbers to extract more money to keep their grisly yet profitable Holocaust theme parks open.

I think when you refer to the camps as "Theme Parks", you show what an utterly disgusting human being you are.

If demonstrating your confusion, gullibility and intellectual laziness is "fun" for you, please don't let me stop you from showing how little you know about WW 2 and the Holocaust.

Again, I have a degree in history. If I got up in class and started spouting the shit you do, I'd have probably gotten failed on those key courses.

 

[sparky]

Auschwitz: Myths and Facts

The IHR, an independent, public interest history research and publishing center, seeks to promote peace and freedom through greater awareness of the past.

www.ihr.org

Summary

Maintaining the hatreds and passions of the past prevents genuine reconciliation and lasting peace. The Auschwitz extermination story originated as World War II propaganda. And all wartime propaganda, unless hatred and passion are to have the final word, must be viewed critically. It is high time to take a more objective look at this highly polemicized chapter of history.

Interesting site & testimonies Grau......i'll have to agree with this one passage (bold mine) , because it's exactly what's been happening in the M.E. since 9/11

Again, I have a degree in history. If I got up in class and started spouting the shit you do, I'd have probably gotten failed on those key courses.

Of course you'd fail Joe

Because you would be opining against the national narrative which IS empirical history

A national narrative is a story or set of stories that a nation tells about itself. It is often used to establish a sense of shared identity and history among citizens, and can include myths, legends, historical events, and cultural traditions

Is this not something we read USMB daily?

~S~

 

[JoeB131]

Maintaining the hatreds and passions of the past prevents genuine reconciliation and lasting peace. The Auschwitz extermination story originated as World War II propaganda. And all wartime propaganda, unless hatred and passion are to have the final word, must be viewed critically. It is high time to take a more objective look at this highly polemicized chapter of history.

Interesting site & testimonies Grau......i'll have to agree with this one passage (bold mine) , because it's exactly what's been happening in the M.E. since 9/11

I am sure that there was propaganda during WWII. The thing is, it proved to be correct in this case. We have spent decades documenting what the Axis (including Japan) did during the war.

Of course you'd fail Joe

Because you would be opining against the national narrative which IS empirical history

A national narrative is a story or set of stories that a nation tells about itself. It is often used to establish a sense of shared identity and history among citizens, and can include myths, legends, historical events, and cultural traditions

Is this not something we read @USMB daily?

Sadly, we have to read conspiracy loons like you and the late Dale Smith all the time, even though you are piss ignorant.

The real problem is we don't live in an Information Age, we live in a Mis-Information Age. A generation ago, crazy shit like Fema camps would have been dismissed as the garbage they are.

 

[sparky]

I am sure that there was propaganda during WWII. The thing is, it proved to be correct in this case. We have spent decades documenting what the Axis (including Japan) did during the war.

yes we have Joe

we've also spent 2 decades documenting our presence in the M.E.

the comparisons are similar

for starters, the infamous 28 pages....

The real problem is we don't live in an Information Age, we live in a Mis-Information Age. A generation ago, crazy shit like Fema camps would have been dismissed as the garbage they are.

Agreed Joe, and fema camps are a grand example.
In that their existence is not disputed, but what they exist to accomplish is.....

~S~

 

[JoeB131]

yes we have Joe

we've also spent 2 decades documenting our presence in the M.E.

the comparisons are similar

for starters, the infamous 28 pages....

Oooh, guy, I really don't have time for your crazy this morning.

Agreed Joe, and fema camps are a grand example.
In that their existence is not disputed, but what they exist to accomplish is.....

Again, I only spend so much time a day talking to crazy conspiracy theorists.