Zone1 What if the State of Israel Ceased to Exist?

Procrustes Stretched

And you say, "Oh my God, am I here all alone?"
Dec 1, 2008
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What if the State of Israel Ceased to Exist? Just the state itself, not the people of the state.

The Zionist movement is political, but I keep hearing people speak of it as if it were a religious movement, as if they agree the state is some version of a theocracy.

noun: Zionism
  1. a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.

I've known Israeli's that fight the view of Israel as a religious state. I've known Jews who are not pro Zionism. I've personally marched with and in support of Jewish refusniks and others. I've argued with proteges of Noam Chomsky who were so anti Israel it was impossible to take their claims seriously. I am no fan of Noam, but when a man is right Dante give shim the credit due.


Fifty years ago, the distinguished Israel statesman Abba Eban wrote that “One of the chief tasks of any dialogue with the Gentile world is to prove that the distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism is not a distinction at all. Anti-Zionism is merely the new anti-Semitism.”

As the examples he gives make crystal clear (e.g., the committed Zionist I.F. Stone), by “anti-Zionism” he means criticism of the policies of the government of Israel and some sympathy for Palestinians.

That principle has become a last-ditch defense of apologists for Israel crimes under the occupation. Any critic, any proponent of Palestinian rights, can be tarred as an anti-Semite. This weapon has recently been wielded to great effect against Jeremy Corbyn in a campaign of vulgar deceit and slander that is shocking even beyond the disgraceful norm.

It would not be surprising if DiEM25 is soon subjected to the same treatment as its success increases and its outreach grows. Be prepared
.

 
What if the State of Israel Ceased to Exist? Just the state itself, not the people of the state.

The Zionist movement is political, but I keep hearing people speak of it as if it were a religious movement, as if they agree the state is some version of a theocracy.



I've known Israeli's that fight the view of Israel as a religious state. I've known Jews who are not pro Zionism. I've personally marched with and in support of Jewish refusniks and others. I've argued with proteges of Noam Chomsky who were so anti Israel it was impossible to take their claims seriously. I am no fan of Noam, but when a man is right Dante give shim the credit due.


Fifty years ago, the distinguished Israel statesman Abba Eban wrote that “One of the chief tasks of any dialogue with the Gentile world is to prove that the distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism is not a distinction at all. Anti-Zionism is merely the new anti-Semitism.”

As the examples he gives make crystal clear (e.g., the committed Zionist I.F. Stone), by “anti-Zionism” he means criticism of the policies of the government of Israel and some sympathy for Palestinians.

That principle has become a last-ditch defense of apologists for Israel crimes under the occupation. Any critic, any proponent of Palestinian rights, can be tarred as an anti-Semite. This weapon has recently been wielded to great effect against Jeremy Corbyn in a campaign of vulgar deceit and slander that is shocking even beyond the disgraceful norm.

It would not be surprising if DiEM25 is soon subjected to the same treatment as its success increases and its outreach grows. Be prepared
.

I would imagine most of them would become United States citizens.
 
What an odd question. What if Canada or Germany didn't exist? I can't say I understand the objective here which would lead to a condusive discussion.

It's not an odd question. The context is Israel existing as a result of the political movement -- Zionism.

While Israel is technically not a theocracy, it is the closest thing the world has to one. For decades, I was a blind supporter of Israel. Israel grew until the enemies of it no longer pose an existential threat. But Israel is not so innocent when it comes to the troubles there. I can't help but think of a famous Nietzsche quote here...
 
It's not an odd question. The context is Israel existing as a result of the political movement -- Zionism.

While Israel is technically not a theocracy, it is the closest thing the world has to one. For decades, I was a blind supporter of Israel. Israel grew until the enemies of it no longer pose an existential threat. But Israel is not so innocent when it comes to the troubles there. I can't help but think of a famous Nietzsche quote here...
Israel exists because of centuries of being targetted which culminated in most of their European population, young,.old.and unborn; being exterminated in a case of genocide during WWII. The movement received.global support and the UN voted on the partition.
 
Many people (including me) hope that Israel lasts forever.

The Jewish deserve a safe zone in this uncivilized world.

But I think that Israel will eventually go the way of the Crusader states.

The population profile of the United States is rapidly changing.

As we have seen from the recent pro-Palestinian marches, more and more young Americans are turning away from solid support for Israel.

So maybe in 100 years' time (or earlier), the American government will drop its support for Israel.
 
Israel exists because of centuries of being targetted which culminated in most of their European population, young,.old.and unborn; being exterminated in a case of genocide during WWII. The movement received.global support and the UN voted on the partition.

And here I thought it exists because people just went back home. What does the UN say about the West Bank and Gaza strip?
 
And here I thought it exists because people just went back home. What does the UN say about the West Bank and Gaza strip?
There was always a small zionist movement before WWII but it gained immense traction after the horrors of the Secomd World War. What is done is done. Israel exists and will continue to exist. It is far more complicated as the British made some mistakes in the psst before 1948 in which neither group (of which Judaism was much smaller in the population) had a fair chance to thrive.
 
There was always a small zionist movement before WWII but it gained immense traction after the horrors of the Secomd World War. What is done is done. Israel exists and will continue to exist. It is far more complicated as the British made some mistakes in the psst before 1948 in which neither group (of which Judaism was much smaller in the population) had a fair chance to thrive.

Yes, and like the Jews back then, the Palestinians have the UN backing.
 
Isn't it time to rid the site of the Israeli supporters of Child Killing and Genocide ?
These disgusting people are no different to the German Nazi SS .
Ignorant and abhorrent .
 
Many people (including me) hope that Israel lasts forever.

The Jewish deserve a safe zone in this uncivilized world.

But I think that Israel will eventually go the way of the Crusader states.

The population profile of the United States is rapidly changing.

As we have seen from the recent pro-Palestinian marches, more and more young Americans are turning away from solid support for Israel.

So maybe in 100 years' time (or earlier), the American government will drop its support for Israel.
Of course Israel will always exist. People forget, or don't want to see God's involvement

When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
 
What an odd question. What if Canada or Germany didn't exist? I can't say I understand the objective here which would lead to a condusive discussion.
Not the same. I don’t hear mobs of thousands of people rallying wih calls to “kill all Canadians” and “kill all Germans!”

We need Israel as a safe harbor. The recent and extreme upswing in Jew-hate shows that now more than ever.
 
What if the State of Israel Ceased to Exist? Just the state itself, not the people of the state.

The Zionist movement is political, but I keep hearing people speak of it as if it were a religious movement, as if they agree the state is some version of a theocracy.



I've known Israeli's that fight the view of Israel as a religious state. I've known Jews who are not pro Zionism. I've personally marched with and in support of Jewish refusniks and others. I've argued with proteges of Noam Chomsky who were so anti Israel it was impossible to take their claims seriously. I am no fan of Noam, but when a man is right Dante give shim the credit due.


Fifty years ago, the distinguished Israel statesman Abba Eban wrote that “One of the chief tasks of any dialogue with the Gentile world is to prove that the distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism is not a distinction at all. Anti-Zionism is merely the new anti-Semitism.”

As the examples he gives make crystal clear (e.g., the committed Zionist I.F. Stone), by “anti-Zionism” he means criticism of the policies of the government of Israel and some sympathy for Palestinians.

That principle has become a last-ditch defense of apologists for Israel crimes under the occupation. Any critic, any proponent of Palestinian rights, can be tarred as an anti-Semite. This weapon has recently been wielded to great effect against Jeremy Corbyn in a campaign of vulgar deceit and slander that is shocking even beyond the disgraceful norm.

It would not be surprising if DiEM25 is soon subjected to the same treatment as its success increases and its outreach grows. Be prepared
.

You’d have a wet dream.

Quoting vermin like Chomsky doesn’t serve to make you come across as educated or worldly. It just underscores who and what you are.

If your sole point had been that there is (or can be) a valid distinction between being anti-Zionism and being anti-Semitic, you could be a lot more brief. But the truth still exists. Lots of people try to hide behind that distinction. They do this to pretend that their own anti-Zionism isn’t grounded in their anti-Semitism.
 
You’d have a wet dream.

Quoting vermin like Chomsky doesn’t serve to make you come across as educated or worldly. It just underscores who and what you are.

If your sole point had been that there is (or can be) a valid distinction between being anti-Zionism and being anti-Semitic, you could be a lot more brief. But the truth still exists. Lots of people try to hide behind that distinction. They do this to pretend that their own anti-Zionism isn’t grounded in their anti-Semitism.
So lots of people do something and that makes everyone else suspect? Hmm... Okay.

Trollboi, It's already been stated that Dante is no fan of Noam. Dante has battled a few proteges of Noam on this subject.

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Oh! and there you go again with the juvenile personal insults. I can and do refute Noam and argue against him without resorting to juvenile name calling
 
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