The difference between anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel

[Challenger]

Interesting Jewish view on Zionism,"Why Zionism Is Not and Never Will Be Part of My Jewish Identity"

When I was a kid, Zionism – the political ideology responsible for the development and protection of a Jewish nation-state, currently known as Israel – made sense to me...Why Zionism Is Not and Never Will Be Part of My Jewish Identity

 

[Mindful]

Interesting Jewish view on Zionism,"Why Zionism Is Not and Never Will Be Part of My Jewish Identity"

When I was a kid, Zionism – the political ideology responsible for the development and protection of a Jewish nation-state, currently known as Israel – made sense to me...Why Zionism Is Not and Never Will Be Part of My Jewish Identity

This over fascination with Jews.

Does it matter?

 

[Phoenall]

This is a very good articulation of the differences between anti-semitism, anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel. I apologize for posting video as I know it is not always a good use of your time. The relevant parts begin at 3:30ish and continue for only a few minutes. If you are inclined -- please watch the whole thing as it is, as I said, a good articulation of the issues involved by a relatively balanced speaker.

The speaker asks us to consider Zionism as the Jewish liberation movement. And that we should re-educate ourselves if we reject the very idea of a Jewish liberation movement. And that we understand that the Jewish liberation movement is both necessary and equivalent to other liberation movements (including the Palestinian one).

Where is the part where he justifies the theft of Palestinian land?

Edit - Afrikaners don't deserve a national movement on South African land, why should Jews deserve Palestinian land. Non Palestinian Jews

What theft of Palestinian land, still waiting for the international treaty that gave them any land ?


They now have all the land have destroyed it, leaving their birthright a desert. The arab muslims are the same as shown by the satellite images of the differences. The Palestinians have never owned the land since 1099 so how is it theirs, the Ottomans refused to allow them to rule it, then the LoN took it away as war booty and reparations so when did it pass into the hands of illegal immigrants ?

 

[Mindful]

This is a very good articulation of the differences between anti-semitism, anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel. I apologize for posting video as I know it is not always a good use of your time. The relevant parts begin at 3:30ish and continue for only a few minutes. If you are inclined -- please watch the whole thing as it is, as I said, a good articulation of the issues involved by a relatively balanced speaker.

The speaker asks us to consider Zionism as the Jewish liberation movement. And that we should re-educate ourselves if we reject the very idea of a Jewish liberation movement. And that we understand that the Jewish liberation movement is both necessary and equivalent to other liberation movements (including the Palestinian one).

Where is the part where he justifies the theft of Palestinian land?

Edit - Afrikaners don't deserve a national movement on South African land, why should Jews deserve Palestinian land. Non Palestinian Jews

What theft of Palestinian land, still waiting for the international treaty that gave them any land ?


They now have all the land have destroyed it, leaving their birthright a desert. The arab muslims are the same as shown by the satellite images of the differences. The Palestinians have never owned the land since 1099 so how is it theirs, the Ottomans refused to allow them to rule it, then the LoN took it away as war booty and reparations so when did it pass into the hands of illegal immigrants ?

Didn't the Ottomans cede it to the British?

 

[Phoenall]

Coyote

Remember we were talking about the changes of meanings of words on the other thread? "Colonialism".

How has it changed to become anti-semitic?

By the context it is used in, and the reason the term is used against just one group. As in the likes of monte does not mention arab muslim colonialism as it would destroy his argument against the Jews. Used equally for both sides and the term is valid, used as a weapon against the Jews and the term is a racist attack.

 

[Phoenall]

No liberation movement has, as its goal, the dispossession and subjugation of another people ...

We agree. The Jewish liberation movement has, as its goal, the safety, security and liberation of the Jewish people in the form of national self-determination.

Self determination after ethnic cleansing and theft, lol

What ethnic cleansing and theft. How about links proving your false racist claims ?


You really need to go back to school and listen to what the teachers are saying

 

[Phoenall]

Coyote

Remember we were talking about the changes of meanings of words on the other thread? "Colonialism".

How has it changed to become anti-semitic?

It is used incorrectly, with a changed meaning, in order to reject the Jewish people's connection to its historical, ancestral and religious homeland.

You just repeated yourself and then described zionism

Then you are a bigger moron than we all thought, as that is the Nazi view of Zionism

Come back when you have had a proper education

 

[Phoenall]

Interesting Jewish view on Zionism,"Why Zionism Is Not and Never Will Be Part of My Jewish Identity"

When I was a kid, Zionism – the political ideology responsible for the development and protection of a Jewish nation-state, currently known as Israel – made sense to me...Why Zionism Is Not and Never Will Be Part of My Jewish Identity

This over fascination with Jews.

Does it matter?

It does to those who have world domination as their dogma...................

 

[Phoenall]

This is a very good articulation of the differences between anti-semitism, anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel. I apologize for posting video as I know it is not always a good use of your time. The relevant parts begin at 3:30ish and continue for only a few minutes. If you are inclined -- please watch the whole thing as it is, as I said, a good articulation of the issues involved by a relatively balanced speaker.

The speaker asks us to consider Zionism as the Jewish liberation movement. And that we should re-educate ourselves if we reject the very idea of a Jewish liberation movement. And that we understand that the Jewish liberation movement is both necessary and equivalent to other liberation movements (including the Palestinian one).

Where is the part where he justifies the theft of Palestinian land?

Edit - Afrikaners don't deserve a national movement on South African land, why should Jews deserve Palestinian land. Non Palestinian Jews

What theft of Palestinian land, still waiting for the international treaty that gave them any land ?


They now have all the land have destroyed it, leaving their birthright a desert. The arab muslims are the same as shown by the satellite images of the differences. The Palestinians have never owned the land since 1099 so how is it theirs, the Ottomans refused to allow them to rule it, then the LoN took it away as war booty and reparations so when did it pass into the hands of illegal immigrants ?

Didn't the Ottomans cede it to the British?

Not quite............ In line with International laws of the time the victors claimed land from the losers as reparations of war. This meant that the people who lived there could either move out or stay, if the land was occupied by both nationalities the winners could evict the losers and move in their own people. This happened with Germany's lands in 1919 and led to WW2 breaking out when the Germans took back what was theirs. The former Ottoman empire was ceded to the LoN to allocate as they saw fit, and they gave 99.9% of the land to the arab muslims who had already shown the ability to form a government and stand on their own feet. The remaining 0.01% was granted to the Jews for their future NATIONal home governed in trust by the British. The British changed governments and the chose an anti semitic party to rule them, so they went against the LoN mandate and started to support the arab muslims claims.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indeed, it is one of most common of Israel's talking points.

Interesting opinion though.

Whether it is a common talking point is neither here nor there.

Why should it be?

More turnspeak from you.

Israel's right to exists really should not be. It exists there for it is. No other country has it's "right to exist" questioned as far as I can tell.

Israel is the only country on Earth that constantly worries about its so called right to exist. Perhaps it is its lack of legitimacy.

Deep down the Zionist Jews know they expropriated land from a non-Jewish native people that inhabited the land. They are asking for the equivalent of having the owner of an automobile whose automobile was stolen signing the title away to the thief.

It's not as simple as that.

There are, for a start, an indiginous population of Jews that are the native people.

There are Jews who legally and legitimately purchased land.

There are Jews who expropriated land.

There were two forces competing for space and primacy at the time: Pan-Arab nationalism and Jewish nationalism.

Can we agree on the above?


If so - why is it only Israel and Jewish nationalism that is held to the fire? Why are Arab states' legitimacy not questioned but Israel's questioned?

There are Jews who legally and legitimately purchased land.​

The immigration policy was not established by the people which was their right to do. It was imposed on them by the force of arms against their will.

 

[Mindful]

Whether it is a common talking point is neither here nor there.

Why should it be?

More turnspeak from you.

Israel's right to exists really should not be. It exists there for it is. No other country has it's "right to exist" questioned as far as I can tell.

Israel is the only country on Earth that constantly worries about its so called right to exist. Perhaps it is its lack of legitimacy.

Deep down the Zionist Jews know they expropriated land from a non-Jewish native people that inhabited the land. They are asking for the equivalent of having the owner of an automobile whose automobile was stolen signing the title away to the thief.

It's not as simple as that.

There are, for a start, an indiginous population of Jews that are the native people.

There are Jews who legally and legitimately purchased land.

There are Jews who expropriated land.

There were two forces competing for space and primacy at the time: Pan-Arab nationalism and Jewish nationalism.

Can we agree on the above?


If so - why is it only Israel and Jewish nationalism that is held to the fire? Why are Arab states' legitimacy not questioned but Israel's questioned?

There are Jews who legally and legitimately purchased land.​

The immigration policy was not established by the people which was their right to do. It was imposed on them by the force of arms against their will.

Is there something you are trying to say? Like trying to impose yourself on me, against my will?

 

[Challenger]

Interesting Jewish view on Zionism,"Why Zionism Is Not and Never Will Be Part of My Jewish Identity"

When I was a kid, Zionism – the political ideology responsible for the development and protection of a Jewish nation-state, currently known as Israel – made sense to me...Why Zionism Is Not and Never Will Be Part of My Jewish Identity

This over fascination with Jews.

Does it matter?

Not all Zionists are Jewish and by no means are all Jewish people Zionists. Zionism and Judaism are not the same, regardles of how much Zionists try to co-opt the religion into their political agenda. Zionism is the real enemy of Jewish people.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

This over fascination with Jews.

It's almost funny how posters devote the entirety of their postings to demonizing Jews and then immediately deny they are doing so.

Well, at least the leftist Nazis. The right wing variety are a bit more up front about it.

When these creatures get out of bed each day and immediately scour the net for their favorite hates site eager to post what they find at various discussion groups -- often to the tune of many thousands of postings -- and then demand so disingenuously that others "prove" their antisemitism, all they are actually proving is their mania, their obsession and their hatred.

These are not stable individuals, but obsessive things so far down the rabbit hole of mania that they have lost all perspective.

 

[Mindful]

This over fascination with Jews.

It's almost funny how posters devote the entirety of their postings to demonizing Jews and then immediately deny they are doing so.

Well, at least the leftist Nazis. The right wing variety are a bit more up front about it.

When these creatures get out of bed each day and immediately scour the net for their favorite hates site eager to post what they find at various discussion groups -- often to the tune of many thousands of postings -- and then demand so disingenuously that others "prove" their antisemitism, all they are actually proving is their mania, their obsession and their hatred.

These are not stable individuals, but obsessive things so far down the rabbit hole of mania that they have lost all perspective.

It's the blatant lying and historical distortions.

 

[Coyote]

This over fascination with Jews.

It's almost funny how posters devote the entirety of their postings to demonizing Jews and then immediately deny they are doing so.

Well, at least the leftist Nazis. The right wing variety are a bit more up front about it.

When these creatures get out of bed each day and immediately scour the net for their favorite hates site eager to post what they find at various discussion groups -- often to the tune of many thousands of postings -- and then demand so disingenuously that others "prove" their antisemitism, all they are actually proving is their mania, their obsession and their hatred.

These are not stable individuals, but obsessive things so far down the rabbit hole of mania that they have lost all perspective.

It's the blatant lying and historical distortions.

Such as the myth that the main cause of the Palestinian Exodus was the Arabs telling them to leave? Plenty of lies and distortions all around this conflict.

 

[Coyote]

This over fascination with Jews.

It's almost funny how posters devote the entirety of their postings to demonizing Jews and then immediately deny they are doing so.

Well, at least the leftist Nazis. The right wing variety are a bit more up front about it.

When these creatures get out of bed each day and immediately scour the net for their favorite hates site eager to post what they find at various discussion groups -- often to the tune of many thousands of postings -- and then demand so disingenuously that others "prove" their antisemitism, all they are actually proving is their mania, their obsession and their hatred.

These are not stable individuals, but obsessive things so far down the rabbit hole of mania that they have lost all perspective.

Yet, when asked to provide evidence for your claims you never can. Most people can, are you special or something with a unique ability to proclaim your warped version of "truth" but exempt from supporting it?

Supporting the Palestinian right to self determination does not equal antizionism unless it means the irradiation of Israel.

Refusing to join the anti-muslim hate wagon does not equal antisemitism.

If people devote much discussion to IP issues...does that make them all antisemitism?

Do you ever discuss the issues rather than the posters?

 

[Lipush]

This over fascination with Jews.

It's almost funny how posters devote the entirety of their postings to demonizing Jews and then immediately deny they are doing so.

Well, at least the leftist Nazis. The right wing variety are a bit more up front about it.

When these creatures get out of bed each day and immediately scour the net for their favorite hates site eager to post what they find at various discussion groups -- often to the tune of many thousands of postings -- and then demand so disingenuously that others "prove" their antisemitism, all they are actually proving is their mania, their obsession and their hatred.

These are not stable individuals, but obsessive things so far down the rabbit hole of mania that they have lost all perspective.

It's the blatant lying and historical distortions.

Such as the myth that the main cause of the Palestinian Exodus was the Arabs telling them to leave? Plenty of lies and distortions all around this conflict.

It's not a myth.

Don't know about Arab countries telling them to leave, but most of the 'Palestinians' escaped and were not expelled. Jews were in minority, what power did we have over them to expel so many of them...

 

[Mindful]

This over fascination with Jews.

It's almost funny how posters devote the entirety of their postings to demonizing Jews and then immediately deny they are doing so.

Well, at least the leftist Nazis. The right wing variety are a bit more up front about it.

When these creatures get out of bed each day and immediately scour the net for their favorite hates site eager to post what they find at various discussion groups -- often to the tune of many thousands of postings -- and then demand so disingenuously that others "prove" their antisemitism, all they are actually proving is their mania, their obsession and their hatred.

These are not stable individuals, but obsessive things so far down the rabbit hole of mania that they have lost all perspective.

It's the blatant lying and historical distortions.

Such as the myth that the main cause of the Palestinian Exodus was the Arabs telling them to leave? Plenty of lies and distortions all around this conflict.

It's not a myth.

Don't know about Arab countries telling them to leave, but most of the 'Palestinians' escaped and were not expelled. Jews were in minority, what power did we have over them to expel so many of them...

Re: Not a myth:


They left for a variety of reasons. Thousands of wealthy Arabs left in anticipation of a war, thousands more responded to Arab leaders' calls to get out of the way of the advancing armies, a handful were expelled, but most simply fled to avoid being caught in the cross fire of a battle. Had the Arabs accepted the 1947 UN Resolution, not a single Palestinian would have become a refugee, and an independent Arab state would now exist beside Israel.

The beginning of the Arab exodus can be traced to the weeks immediately following the announcement of the UN partition resolution. The first to leave were roughly 30,000 wealthy Arabs who anticipated the upcoming war and fled to neighboring Arab countries to await its end. Less affluent Arabs from the mixed cities of Palestine moved to all-Arab towns to stay with relatives or friends.

All of those who left fully anticipated being able to return to their homes after an early Arab victory, as Palestinian nationalist Aref el-Aref explained in his history of the 1948 war:

*The Arabs thought they would win in less than the twinkling of an eye and that it would take no more than a day or two from the time the Arab armies crossed the border until all the colonies were conquered and the enemy would throw down his arms and cast himself on their mercy.*

 

[Coyote]

This over fascination with Jews.

It's almost funny how posters devote the entirety of their postings to demonizing Jews and then immediately deny they are doing so.

Well, at least the leftist Nazis. The right wing variety are a bit more up front about it.

When these creatures get out of bed each day and immediately scour the net for their favorite hates site eager to post what they find at various discussion groups -- often to the tune of many thousands of postings -- and then demand so disingenuously that others "prove" their antisemitism, all they are actually proving is their mania, their obsession and their hatred.

These are not stable individuals, but obsessive things so far down the rabbit hole of mania that they have lost all perspective.

It's the blatant lying and historical distortions.

Such as the myth that the main cause of the Palestinian Exodus was the Arabs telling them to leave? Plenty of lies and distortions all around this conflict.

It's not a myth.

Don't know about Arab countries telling them to leave, but most of the 'Palestinians' escaped and were not expelled. Jews were in minority, what power did we have over them to expel so many of them...

According to Israeli documents, the primary reasons for the Palestinian's fleeing were not Arab states telling them to flee, that was not even in the top 3. That is the lie that is perpetrated as the established narrative.

 

[Phoenall]

Whether it is a common talking point is neither here nor there.

Why should it be?

More turnspeak from you.

Israel's right to exists really should not be. It exists there for it is. No other country has it's "right to exist" questioned as far as I can tell.

Israel is the only country on Earth that constantly worries about its so called right to exist. Perhaps it is its lack of legitimacy.

Deep down the Zionist Jews know they expropriated land from a non-Jewish native people that inhabited the land. They are asking for the equivalent of having the owner of an automobile whose automobile was stolen signing the title away to the thief.

It's not as simple as that.

There are, for a start, an indiginous population of Jews that are the native people.

There are Jews who legally and legitimately purchased land.

There are Jews who expropriated land.

There were two forces competing for space and primacy at the time: Pan-Arab nationalism and Jewish nationalism.

Can we agree on the above?


If so - why is it only Israel and Jewish nationalism that is held to the fire? Why are Arab states' legitimacy not questioned but Israel's questioned?

There are Jews who legally and legitimately purchased land.​

The immigration policy was not established by the people which was their right to do. It was imposed on them by the force of arms against their will.

Which international laws of 1923 said that then, because that is when this was made policy.


Once again you try and use international laws retrospectively, so you also broke those laws when you invaded America and introduced an immigration policy.


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