The difference between anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel

[montelatici]

Um. Iberian is Spain/Portugal.

And if you think the DNA testing is the way to determine sovereignty over territory -- do you think the Palestinians should be tested as well? Or just the Jews?

What results would confer sovereignty? What percentage of the "right" DNA would permit one to become (or stay) a citizen of Israel/Palestine? What happens to the people who have the "wrong" DNA? Should they be transferred or deported? Where should they be deported to? The places where their DNA tells them they are "from"? Should your employee be deported to Italy? Since that is where her DNA tells us she is "from"? For that matter, should we ALL be tested to see what our DNA tells us? Should we all be transferred to our "correct" racial places? If not enough people share the same DNA in one place, does that mean they shouldn't have sovereignty over that place?

My ancestry is Scots, Irish and German. Where should I go? I'm rather fond of kilts, so my first pick would be Scotland. Do you think they'd have me? We have a tartan now, did you know? The Scots Jews. Its really kinda cool.

I think I like it better than my actual ancestral tartan:

The Palestinians have been DNA tested, exhaustively, the results of a variety of studies show that Palestinian Christians and Muslims have identical DNA that can be localized to Palestine and the Levant in general.

The European Jews, on the other hand, are European genetically. Not surprising at all.

"The majority of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from prehistoric European women...."

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...21/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/

"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European"

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

 

[Mindful]

Um. Iberian is Spain/Portugal.

And if you think the DNA testing is the way to determine sovereignty over territory -- do you think the Palestinians should be tested as well? Or just the Jews?

What results would confer sovereignty? What percentage of the "right" DNA would permit one to become (or stay) a citizen of Israel/Palestine? What happens to the people who have the "wrong" DNA? Should they be transferred or deported? Where should they be deported to? The places where their DNA tells them they are "from"? Should your employee be deported to Italy? Since that is where her DNA tells us she is "from"? For that matter, should we ALL be tested to see what our DNA tells us? Should we all be transferred to our "correct" racial places? If not enough people share the same DNA in one place, does that mean they shouldn't have sovereignty over that place?

My ancestry is Scots, Irish and German. Where should I go? I'm rather fond of kilts, so my first pick would be Scotland. Do you think they'd have me? We have a tartan now, did you know? The Scots Jews. Its really kinda cool.

I think I like it better than my actual ancestral tartan:

The Palestinians have been DNA tested, exhaustively, the results of a variety of studies show that Palestinian Christians and Muslims have identical DNA that can be localized to Palestine and the Levant in general.

The European Jews, on the other hand, are European genetically. Not surprising at all.

"The majority of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from prehistoric European women...."

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...21/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/

"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European"

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

Extremely offensive, to be talking about Jewish people in this way.

 

[Coyote]

Um. Iberian is Spain/Portugal.

And if you think the DNA testing is the way to determine sovereignty over territory -- do you think the Palestinians should be tested as well? Or just the Jews?

What results would confer sovereignty? What percentage of the "right" DNA would permit one to become (or stay) a citizen of Israel/Palestine? What happens to the people who have the "wrong" DNA? Should they be transferred or deported? Where should they be deported to? The places where their DNA tells them they are "from"? Should your employee be deported to Italy? Since that is where her DNA tells us she is "from"? For that matter, should we ALL be tested to see what our DNA tells us? Should we all be transferred to our "correct" racial places? If not enough people share the same DNA in one place, does that mean they shouldn't have sovereignty over that place?

My ancestry is Scots, Irish and German. Where should I go? I'm rather fond of kilts, so my first pick would be Scotland. Do you think they'd have me? We have a tartan now, did you know? The Scots Jews. Its really kinda cool.

I think I like it better than my actual ancestral tartan:

The Palestinians have been DNA tested, exhaustively, the results of a variety of studies show that Palestinian Christians and Muslims have identical DNA that can be localized to Palestine and the Levant in general.

The European Jews, on the other hand, are European genetically. Not surprising at all.

"The majority of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from prehistoric European women...."

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...21/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/

"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European"

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

That's disputable but I don't want to derail the thread into a discussion of DNA - would be better for a different thread.

 

[montelatici]

Facts derived from DNA testing are offensive? You are being offensive to be talking about European people in this way. What is wrong with being European. Are you a racist?

 

[montelatici]

Um. Iberian is Spain/Portugal.

And if you think the DNA testing is the way to determine sovereignty over territory -- do you think the Palestinians should be tested as well? Or just the Jews?

What results would confer sovereignty? What percentage of the "right" DNA would permit one to become (or stay) a citizen of Israel/Palestine? What happens to the people who have the "wrong" DNA? Should they be transferred or deported? Where should they be deported to? The places where their DNA tells them they are "from"? Should your employee be deported to Italy? Since that is where her DNA tells us she is "from"? For that matter, should we ALL be tested to see what our DNA tells us? Should we all be transferred to our "correct" racial places? If not enough people share the same DNA in one place, does that mean they shouldn't have sovereignty over that place?

My ancestry is Scots, Irish and German. Where should I go? I'm rather fond of kilts, so my first pick would be Scotland. Do you think they'd have me? We have a tartan now, did you know? The Scots Jews. Its really kinda cool.

I think I like it better than my actual ancestral tartan:

The Palestinians have been DNA tested, exhaustively, the results of a variety of studies show that Palestinian Christians and Muslims have identical DNA that can be localized to Palestine and the Levant in general.

The European Jews, on the other hand, are European genetically. Not surprising at all.

"The majority of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from prehistoric European women...."

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...21/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/

"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European"

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

That's disputable but I don't want to derail the thread into a discussion of DNA - would be better for a different thread.

Actually, it is indisputable scientifically. Politically there will be naysayers, of course. Notice, the two sources are scientific journals.

 

[Coyote]

Let's not derail the thread please - topic is Anti-Zionism vs Criticism of Israel.

 

[montelatici]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one can be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

 

[Coyote]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

We don't need to get derailed on genetics and who is or isn't part of a group.

 

[Mindful]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

Depends on who is doing the criticising. And the level of their obsession.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

Depends on who is doing the criticising. And the level of their obsession.

My rule of thumb is that once a poster exceeds 10000 postings attacking anything and everything about Israel with absolutely 0 honest and thoughtful posts, I figure I'm dealing with an antisemite.

These themes of "colonialization" we are encountering here have been lifted from antisemitic hate sites, as they are the only ones making the claim. The same goes for this oft-repeated trope about the word antisemitism somehow stifling debate. I have seen this at countless hate sites, and antisemites repeat it as if a religious experience for them, but if using the term antisemitism to apply quite correctly to the bile vomited forth by these haters were somehow limiting discussion, why is antisemitism the biggest growth industry on the planet?

The fact that those who visit the explosion hate sites are repeating the claim and spreading the antisemitism should give a clue to anybody with a functioning intellect that their antisemitic expressions are not being stifled in the least. Of course, these are not intelligent, reasonable people we are dealing with, here, but rabid and obsessive people who have been convinced that their ethnic hatred is actually some sort of virtue.

 

[Mindful]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

Depends on who is doing the criticising. And the level of their obsession.

My rule of thumb is that once a poster exceeds 10000 postings attacking anything and everything about Israel with absolutely 0 honest and thoughtful posts, I figure I'm dealing with an antisemite.

These themes of "colonialization" we are encountering here have been lifted from antisemitic hate sites, as they are the only ones making the claim. The same goes for this oft-repeated trope about the word antisemitism somehow stifling debate. I have seen this at countless hate sites, and antisemites repeat it as if a religious experience for them, but if using the term antisemitism to apply quite correctly to the bile vomited forth by these haters were somehow limiting discussion, why is antisemitism the biggest growth industry on the planet?

The fact that those who visit the explosion hate sites are repeating the claim and spreading the antisemitism should give a clue to anybody with a functioning intellect that their antisemitic expressions are not being stifled in the least. Of course, these are not intelligent, reasonable people we are dealing with, here, but rabid and obsessive people who have been convinced that their ethnic hatred is actually some sort of virtue.

I don't understand why "the right of Israel to exist" should even be a topic of conversation.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

Depends on who is doing the criticising. And the level of their obsession.

My rule of thumb is that once a poster exceeds 10000 postings attacking anything and everything about Israel with absolutely 0 honest and thoughtful posts, I figure I'm dealing with an antisemite.

These themes of "colonialization" we are encountering here have been lifted from antisemitic hate sites, as they are the only ones making the claim. The same goes for this oft-repeated trope about the word antisemitism somehow stifling debate. I have seen this at countless hate sites, and antisemites repeat it as if a religious experience for them, but if using the term antisemitism to apply quite correctly to the bile vomited forth by these haters were somehow limiting discussion, why is antisemitism the biggest growth industry on the planet?

The fact that those who visit the explosion hate sites are repeating the claim and spreading the antisemitism should give a clue to anybody with a functioning intellect that their antisemitic expressions are not being stifled in the least. Of course, these are not intelligent, reasonable people we are dealing with, here, but rabid and obsessive people who have been convinced that their ethnic hatred is actually some sort of virtue.

I don't understand why "the right of Israel to exist" should even be a topic of conversation.

It shouldn't for anybody who is sane and reasonable.

Arab propaganda has infected the world's leftists to such a thorough degree, however, that some truly vile notions are now considered acceptable. Take Coyote's oft-repeated insistence that there should be nothing to prevent a genocidal mass murderer of Jews from being nominated for a peace prize. 40 years ago, people would have understood the origin of such statements, but the Arab propaganda has moved the bar in a slow, steady fashion over the years to the point it is now treated as reasonable.

It's like boiling lobsters, where incremental change is not noticed, and these sick individuals who have been dining at hate sites don't even notice the vile nature of what hey have internalized.

 

[Mindful]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

Depends on who is doing the criticising. And the level of their obsession.

My rule of thumb is that once a poster exceeds 10000 postings attacking anything and everything about Israel with absolutely 0 honest and thoughtful posts, I figure I'm dealing with an antisemite.

These themes of "colonialization" we are encountering here have been lifted from antisemitic hate sites, as they are the only ones making the claim. The same goes for this oft-repeated trope about the word antisemitism somehow stifling debate. I have seen this at countless hate sites, and antisemites repeat it as if a religious experience for them, but if using the term antisemitism to apply quite correctly to the bile vomited forth by these haters were somehow limiting discussion, why is antisemitism the biggest growth industry on the planet?

The fact that those who visit the explosion hate sites are repeating the claim and spreading the antisemitism should give a clue to anybody with a functioning intellect that their antisemitic expressions are not being stifled in the least. Of course, these are not intelligent, reasonable people we are dealing with, here, but rabid and obsessive people who have been convinced that their ethnic hatred is actually some sort of virtue.

I don't understand why "the right of Israel to exist" should even be a topic of conversation.

It shouldn't for anybody who is sane and reasonable.

Arab propaganda has infected the world's leftists to such a thorough degree, however, that some truly vile notions are now considered acceptable. Take Coyote's oft-repeated insistence that there should be nothing to prevent a genocidal mass murderer of Jews from being nominated for a peace prize. 40 years ago, people would have understood the origin of such statements, but the Arab propaganda has moved the bar in a slow, steady fashion over the years to the point it is now treated as reasonable.

It's like boiling lobsters, where incremental change is not noticed, and these sick individuals who have been dining at hate sites don't even notice the vile nature of what hey have internalized.

The person to be asked the definition of anti semitism/Zionism should be Jewish.

 

[montelatici]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

We don't need to get derailed on genetics and who is or isn't part of a group.

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

Depends on who is doing the criticising. And the level of their obsession.

My rule of thumb is that once a poster exceeds 10000 postings attacking anything and everything about Israel with absolutely 0 honest and thoughtful posts, I figure I'm dealing with an antisemite.

These themes of "colonialization" we are encountering here have been lifted from antisemitic hate sites, as they are the only ones making the claim. The same goes for this oft-repeated trope about the word antisemitism somehow stifling debate. I have seen this at countless hate sites, and antisemites repeat it as if a religious experience for them, but if using the term antisemitism to apply quite correctly to the bile vomited forth by these haters were somehow limiting discussion, why is antisemitism the biggest growth industry on the planet?

The fact that those who visit the explosion hate sites are repeating the claim and spreading the antisemitism should give a clue to anybody with a functioning intellect that their antisemitic expressions are not being stifled in the least. Of course, these are not intelligent, reasonable people we are dealing with, here, but rabid and obsessive people who have been convinced that their ethnic hatred is actually some sort of virtue.

I don't understand why "the right of Israel to exist" should even be a topic of conversation.

It shouldn't for anybody who is sane and reasonable.

Arab propaganda has infected the world's leftists to such a thorough degree, however, that some truly vile notions are now considered acceptable. Take Coyote's oft-repeated insistence that there should be nothing to prevent a genocidal mass murderer of Jews from being nominated for a peace prize. 40 years ago, people would have understood the origin of such statements, but the Arab propaganda has moved the bar in a slow, steady fashion over the years to the point it is now treated as reasonable.

It's like boiling lobsters, where incremental change is not noticed, and these sick individuals who have been dining at hate sites don't even notice the vile nature of what hey have internalized.

Menachem Begin a genocidal mass murderer of Christians (and Muslims) received the Peace prize, I am sure you are fine with that.

Whether it's the several decades of Zionist propaganda that conditioned the West's Christians to accept the Zionist's sometimes murderous treatment of not only Muslims, but also our own in Palestine or the general unavailability of neutral observations of the conflict, the level of cognitive dissonance with respect to Israel's behavior is exceptional. No other nation-state could get away with what Israel does to the Palestinians without being sanctioned severely.

 

[Mindful]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

We don't need to get derailed on genetics and who is or isn't part of a group.

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

Depends on who is doing the criticising. And the level of their obsession.

My rule of thumb is that once a poster exceeds 10000 postings attacking anything and everything about Israel with absolutely 0 honest and thoughtful posts, I figure I'm dealing with an antisemite.

These themes of "colonialization" we are encountering here have been lifted from antisemitic hate sites, as they are the only ones making the claim. The same goes for this oft-repeated trope about the word antisemitism somehow stifling debate. I have seen this at countless hate sites, and antisemites repeat it as if a religious experience for them, but if using the term antisemitism to apply quite correctly to the bile vomited forth by these haters were somehow limiting discussion, why is antisemitism the biggest growth industry on the planet?

The fact that those who visit the explosion hate sites are repeating the claim and spreading the antisemitism should give a clue to anybody with a functioning intellect that their antisemitic expressions are not being stifled in the least. Of course, these are not intelligent, reasonable people we are dealing with, here, but rabid and obsessive people who have been convinced that their ethnic hatred is actually some sort of virtue.

I don't understand why "the right of Israel to exist" should even be a topic of conversation.

It shouldn't for anybody who is sane and reasonable.

Arab propaganda has infected the world's leftists to such a thorough degree, however, that some truly vile notions are now considered acceptable. Take Coyote's oft-repeated insistence that there should be nothing to prevent a genocidal mass murderer of Jews from being nominated for a peace prize. 40 years ago, people would have understood the origin of such statements, but the Arab propaganda has moved the bar in a slow, steady fashion over the years to the point it is now treated as reasonable.

It's like boiling lobsters, where incremental change is not noticed, and these sick individuals who have been dining at hate sites don't even notice the vile nature of what hey have internalized.

Menachem Begin a genocidal mass murderer of Christians (and Muslims) received the Peace prize, I am sure you are fine with that.

Whether it's the several decades of Zionist propaganda that conditioned the West's Christians to accept the Zionist's sometimes murderous treatment of not only Muslims, but also our own in Palestine or the general unavailability of neutral observations of the conflict, the level of cognitive dissonance with respect to Israel's behavior is exceptional. No other nation-state could get away with what Israel does to the Palestinians without being sanctioned severely.

N/A

 

[Coyote]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

Depends on who is doing the criticising. And the level of their obsession.

My rule of thumb is that once a poster exceeds 10000 postings attacking anything and everything about Israel with absolutely 0 honest and thoughtful posts, I figure I'm dealing with an antisemite.

These themes of "colonialization" we are encountering here have been lifted from antisemitic hate sites, as they are the only ones making the claim. The same goes for this oft-repeated trope about the word antisemitism somehow stifling debate. I have seen this at countless hate sites, and antisemites repeat it as if a religious experience for them, but if using the term antisemitism to apply quite correctly to the bile vomited forth by these haters were somehow limiting discussion, why is antisemitism the biggest growth industry on the planet?

The fact that those who visit the explosion hate sites are repeating the claim and spreading the antisemitism should give a clue to anybody with a functioning intellect that their antisemitic expressions are not being stifled in the least. Of course, these are not intelligent, reasonable people we are dealing with, here, but rabid and obsessive people who have been convinced that their ethnic hatred is actually some sort of virtue.

I don't understand why "the right of Israel to exist" should even be a topic of conversation.

It shouldn't for anybody who is sane and reasonable.

Arab propaganda has infected the world's leftists to such a thorough degree, however, that some truly vile notions are now considered acceptable. Take Coyote's oft-repeated insistence that there should be nothing to prevent a genocidal mass murderer of Jews from being nominated for a peace prize. 40 years ago, people would have understood the origin of such statements, but the Arab propaganda has moved the bar in a slow, steady fashion over the years to the point it is now treated as reasonable.

It's like boiling lobsters, where incremental change is not noticed, and these sick individuals who have been dining at hate sites don't even notice the vile nature of what hey have internalized.

He wasn't a genocidal mass murderer of Jews, and you take the entire claim completely out of context.

I'd like to hear more about your heroization of an anti-semitic bigot who electrocuted live animals on stage. Personally, I think that's pretty sick but clearly you do not. I'd advise people to keep their pets away from you.

Menachin Begin and Nelson Mandella were both men who had blood on their hands (what you label "genocidal mass murderers") - who went on to promote peace and win the Nobel Peace Prize. Did they deserve it? That's fairly arguable. But you leave all that out.

So, is criticism of Israel "anti-semitism" in your mind? Is anti-Zionism anti-semitism? Is any criticism allowed in your narrow little mind? Is supporting Palestinian rights "anti-semitism" to you because you view them as little more than animals? What do you consider to be "anti-semitism" - can you even answer that without spewing unsupported lies? Maybe provide some links?

 

[Coyote]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

We don't need to get derailed on genetics and who is or isn't part of a group.

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

Depends on who is doing the criticising. And the level of their obsession.

My rule of thumb is that once a poster exceeds 10000 postings attacking anything and everything about Israel with absolutely 0 honest and thoughtful posts, I figure I'm dealing with an antisemite.

These themes of "colonialization" we are encountering here have been lifted from antisemitic hate sites, as they are the only ones making the claim. The same goes for this oft-repeated trope about the word antisemitism somehow stifling debate. I have seen this at countless hate sites, and antisemites repeat it as if a religious experience for them, but if using the term antisemitism to apply quite correctly to the bile vomited forth by these haters were somehow limiting discussion, why is antisemitism the biggest growth industry on the planet?

The fact that those who visit the explosion hate sites are repeating the claim and spreading the antisemitism should give a clue to anybody with a functioning intellect that their antisemitic expressions are not being stifled in the least. Of course, these are not intelligent, reasonable people we are dealing with, here, but rabid and obsessive people who have been convinced that their ethnic hatred is actually some sort of virtue.

I don't understand why "the right of Israel to exist" should even be a topic of conversation.

It shouldn't for anybody who is sane and reasonable.

Arab propaganda has infected the world's leftists to such a thorough degree, however, that some truly vile notions are now considered acceptable. Take Coyote's oft-repeated insistence that there should be nothing to prevent a genocidal mass murderer of Jews from being nominated for a peace prize. 40 years ago, people would have understood the origin of such statements, but the Arab propaganda has moved the bar in a slow, steady fashion over the years to the point it is now treated as reasonable.

It's like boiling lobsters, where incremental change is not noticed, and these sick individuals who have been dining at hate sites don't even notice the vile nature of what hey have internalized.

Menachem Begin a genocidal mass murderer of Christians (and Muslims) received the Peace prize, I am sure you are fine with that.

Whether it's the several decades of Zionist propaganda that conditioned the West's Christians to accept the Zionist's sometimes murderous treatment of not only Muslims, but also our own in Palestine or the general unavailability of neutral observations of the conflict, the level of cognitive dissonance with respect to Israel's behavior is exceptional. No other nation-state could get away with what Israel does to the Palestinians without being sanctioned severely.

No other nation-state would hold back when rockets are being lobbed in their towns either.

 

[montelatici]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

We don't need to get derailed on genetics and who is or isn't part of a group.

Depends on who is doing the criticising. And the level of their obsession.

My rule of thumb is that once a poster exceeds 10000 postings attacking anything and everything about Israel with absolutely 0 honest and thoughtful posts, I figure I'm dealing with an antisemite.

These themes of "colonialization" we are encountering here have been lifted from antisemitic hate sites, as they are the only ones making the claim. The same goes for this oft-repeated trope about the word antisemitism somehow stifling debate. I have seen this at countless hate sites, and antisemites repeat it as if a religious experience for them, but if using the term antisemitism to apply quite correctly to the bile vomited forth by these haters were somehow limiting discussion, why is antisemitism the biggest growth industry on the planet?

The fact that those who visit the explosion hate sites are repeating the claim and spreading the antisemitism should give a clue to anybody with a functioning intellect that their antisemitic expressions are not being stifled in the least. Of course, these are not intelligent, reasonable people we are dealing with, here, but rabid and obsessive people who have been convinced that their ethnic hatred is actually some sort of virtue.

I don't understand why "the right of Israel to exist" should even be a topic of conversation.

It shouldn't for anybody who is sane and reasonable.

Arab propaganda has infected the world's leftists to such a thorough degree, however, that some truly vile notions are now considered acceptable. Take Coyote's oft-repeated insistence that there should be nothing to prevent a genocidal mass murderer of Jews from being nominated for a peace prize. 40 years ago, people would have understood the origin of such statements, but the Arab propaganda has moved the bar in a slow, steady fashion over the years to the point it is now treated as reasonable.

It's like boiling lobsters, where incremental change is not noticed, and these sick individuals who have been dining at hate sites don't even notice the vile nature of what hey have internalized.

Menachem Begin a genocidal mass murderer of Christians (and Muslims) received the Peace prize, I am sure you are fine with that.

Whether it's the several decades of Zionist propaganda that conditioned the West's Christians to accept the Zionist's sometimes murderous treatment of not only Muslims, but also our own in Palestine or the general unavailability of neutral observations of the conflict, the level of cognitive dissonance with respect to Israel's behavior is exceptional. No other nation-state could get away with what Israel does to the Palestinians without being sanctioned severely.

No other nation-state would hold back when rockets are being lobbed in their towns either.

How quickly we forget. The Chechen's used more than big fire crackers against the Russians.

"West threatens sanctions against Russia
The siege of Grozny World powerless to stop bombing as Moscow defends ultimatum given to Chechen capital..."

West threatens sanctions against Russia

 

[Coyote]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

We don't need to get derailed on genetics and who is or isn't part of a group.

My rule of thumb is that once a poster exceeds 10000 postings attacking anything and everything about Israel with absolutely 0 honest and thoughtful posts, I figure I'm dealing with an antisemite.

These themes of "colonialization" we are encountering here have been lifted from antisemitic hate sites, as they are the only ones making the claim. The same goes for this oft-repeated trope about the word antisemitism somehow stifling debate. I have seen this at countless hate sites, and antisemites repeat it as if a religious experience for them, but if using the term antisemitism to apply quite correctly to the bile vomited forth by these haters were somehow limiting discussion, why is antisemitism the biggest growth industry on the planet?

The fact that those who visit the explosion hate sites are repeating the claim and spreading the antisemitism should give a clue to anybody with a functioning intellect that their antisemitic expressions are not being stifled in the least. Of course, these are not intelligent, reasonable people we are dealing with, here, but rabid and obsessive people who have been convinced that their ethnic hatred is actually some sort of virtue.

I don't understand why "the right of Israel to exist" should even be a topic of conversation.

It shouldn't for anybody who is sane and reasonable.

Arab propaganda has infected the world's leftists to such a thorough degree, however, that some truly vile notions are now considered acceptable. Take Coyote's oft-repeated insistence that there should be nothing to prevent a genocidal mass murderer of Jews from being nominated for a peace prize. 40 years ago, people would have understood the origin of such statements, but the Arab propaganda has moved the bar in a slow, steady fashion over the years to the point it is now treated as reasonable.

It's like boiling lobsters, where incremental change is not noticed, and these sick individuals who have been dining at hate sites don't even notice the vile nature of what hey have internalized.

Menachem Begin a genocidal mass murderer of Christians (and Muslims) received the Peace prize, I am sure you are fine with that.

Whether it's the several decades of Zionist propaganda that conditioned the West's Christians to accept the Zionist's sometimes murderous treatment of not only Muslims, but also our own in Palestine or the general unavailability of neutral observations of the conflict, the level of cognitive dissonance with respect to Israel's behavior is exceptional. No other nation-state could get away with what Israel does to the Palestinians without being sanctioned severely.

No other nation-state would hold back when rockets are being lobbed in their towns either.

How quickly we forget. The Chechen's used more than big fire crackers against the Russians.

"West threatens sanctions against Russia
The siege of Grozny World powerless to stop bombing as Moscow defends ultimatum given to Chechen capital..."

West threatens sanctions against Russia

Rockets aren't "big fire crackers" - they caused considerable damage and can kill.

 

[montelatici]

But, it strikes to the core of the accusation being made, i.e. that criticizing Zionism is antisemitism.

We have reached a level of absurdity that one be accused of being antisemitic by criticizing an ideology that was established and promoted by Europeans who are not Semites whose goal was to subjugate and colonize the Semitic inhabitants of Palestine?

We don't need to get derailed on genetics and who is or isn't part of a group.

I don't understand why "the right of Israel to exist" should even be a topic of conversation.

It shouldn't for anybody who is sane and reasonable.

Arab propaganda has infected the world's leftists to such a thorough degree, however, that some truly vile notions are now considered acceptable. Take Coyote's oft-repeated insistence that there should be nothing to prevent a genocidal mass murderer of Jews from being nominated for a peace prize. 40 years ago, people would have understood the origin of such statements, but the Arab propaganda has moved the bar in a slow, steady fashion over the years to the point it is now treated as reasonable.

It's like boiling lobsters, where incremental change is not noticed, and these sick individuals who have been dining at hate sites don't even notice the vile nature of what hey have internalized.

Menachem Begin a genocidal mass murderer of Christians (and Muslims) received the Peace prize, I am sure you are fine with that.

Whether it's the several decades of Zionist propaganda that conditioned the West's Christians to accept the Zionist's sometimes murderous treatment of not only Muslims, but also our own in Palestine or the general unavailability of neutral observations of the conflict, the level of cognitive dissonance with respect to Israel's behavior is exceptional. No other nation-state could get away with what Israel does to the Palestinians without being sanctioned severely.

No other nation-state would hold back when rockets are being lobbed in their towns either.

How quickly we forget. The Chechen's used more than big fire crackers against the Russians.

"West threatens sanctions against Russia
The siege of Grozny World powerless to stop bombing as Moscow defends ultimatum given to Chechen capital..."

West threatens sanctions against Russia

Rockets aren't "big fire crackers" - they caused considerable damage and can kill.

They caused hardly any damage.

"In all the years they have been swooping over the border like useless fireworks, the primitive rockets that Hamas fires at Israel have killed hardly anybody. They scare people, close supermarkets, disrupt business and increase insurance premiums. "

The Guardian view on a futile war in Gaza