The Day of Infamy

[whitehall]

The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on12/7/41 was FDR's greatest political victory. The reluctance of Americans to get into another war to rescue France was gone in a couple of hours in Hawaii on dec. 7. FDR's favorite Soldier, COS George Marshall who had an allegedly photographic memory couldn't remember where he was the night before the "Day of Infamy" and why he was late for work and why he held the decoded message indicating an imminent attack for hours while the Army Communications network (conveniently) went down and he sent a Western Union telegram that arrived at the same time as the Japanese Zeroes. FDR most likely underestimated the Japanese military and thought that an attack would galvanize Americans into supporting the "real war" in Europe.

 

[Unkotare]

You know today is not the 7th, right?

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

You know today is not the 7th, right?

You know it's just 2 days away....right ?
Also. the Japanese have a bloody history of extreme savagery and untold brutalism.

You know that too right?
In fact, if it's still in their genes, I think China would fall to Japan quickly simply because the Chinese people could never fathom the brutality the Japanese could bring down on them. Maybe a little stretch...but during WWII it's a toss up who was more brutal...hitler or the Japanese.

Hopefully they've garnered a little civility over the last 70 years.

 

[Unkotare]

You know it's just 2 days away....right ?
...

Impressive math skills.

 

[Unkotare]

...the Chinese people could never fathom the brutality the Japanese could bring down on them. ....

You need to study more history.

 

[BackAgain]

You know today is not the 7th, right?

It’s still a day of infamy. Just look who our current President is.

 

[Sunni Man]

Pres. Roosevelt did every thing he could to goad the Japanese into attacking the United States.
He saw going to war with Japan as the first step in putting the isolationist America people into the mind set of eventually going to war with Germany.
Roosevelt thought it would take at least a year for the transition of war with Japan to expand to a war with Germany.
But even he was shocked that 3 days after the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Hitler declared war on America.

 

[Mushroom]

You know today is not the 7th, right?

There is never a bad time apparently for conspiracy theorists to spread their coprolite.

 

[Sunni Man]

There is never a bad time apparently for conspiracy theorists to spread their coprolite.

What conspiracy?? ...

 

[Mushroom]

The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on12/7/41 was FDR's greatest political victory. The reluctance of Americans to get into another war to rescue France was gone in a couple of hours in Hawaii on dec. 7. FDR's favorite Soldier, COS George Marshall who had an allegedly photographic memory couldn't remember where he was the night before the "Day of Infamy" and why he was late for work and why he held the decoded message indicating an imminent attack for hours while the Army Communications network (conveniently) went down and he sent a Western Union telegram that arrived at the same time as the Japanese Zeroes. FDR most likely underestimated the Japanese military and thought that an attack would galvanize Americans into supporting the "real war" in Europe.

Oh what a bunch of nonsense.

But here fist he first logical flaw. The Chief of Staff was late for work, and could not explain why?

Tell me, exactly how often does the Chief of Staff work on Sunday?

And the system in place at that time was to send a telegram when possible for reasons of security. Radio signals can be intercepted, telegrams can not. However, the biggest delay is that the Navy was that it was not tagged as urgent but routine, which led to delays in getting the message to the Navy on Pearl, and recoding it. By the time that was done, the attack was underway. And shortly afterwards, the WU office was moved onto the Navy Base both to increase the speed, and as for security.

The Philippines was radioed with an alert message, but only warned of an attack after it started. Once again, for security reasons.

And come on now, what in the hell did Japan attacking have to do with Europe? You are really stretching things here.

 

[Mushroom]

Pres. Roosevelt did every thing he could to goad the Japanese into attacking the United States.

What, by telling Japan he would not sell them anything unless they stopped attacking their ally China?

I suppose he goaded them into the Second Sino-Japanese War also? And the Rape of Nanking? And all the other atrocities Japan did which caused the embargos in the first place?

 

[Sunni Man]

I suppose he goaded them into the Second Sino-Japanese War also? And the Rape of Nanking? And all the other atrocities Japan did

Now you're just acting silly. ...

 

[Mushroom]

Now you're just acting silly. ...

Why? Are you not aware that is what cuased the embargos in the first place?

You claim that the US goaded Japan is about as silly as claiming that the US would have goaded the USSR to attack after placing an embargo on grain to the USSR after they attacked Afghanistan.

 

[Sunni Man]

You claim that the US goaded Japan is about as silly as claiming that the US would have goaded the USSR to attack after placing an embargo on grain to the USSR after they attacked Afghanistan.

...........

 

[DudleySmith]

Why? Are you not aware that is what cuased the embargos in the first place?

You claim that the US goaded Japan is about as silly as claiming that the US would have goaded the USSR to attack after placing an embargo on grain to the USSR after they attacked Afghanistan.

It's about bashing Roosevelt; that a popular conspiracy nut hobby among right wing nutjobs and neo-Nazis. Most of these idiots don't know squat about history, they're just parrots.

 

[Mushroom]

It's about bashing Roosevelt; that a popular conspiracy nut hobby among right wing nutjobs and neo-Nazis. Most of these idiots don't know squat about history, they're just parrots.

Well, for poop face, it is all about blaming everybody but Japan for what happened. Never mind that trade embargos had long been norm for a way to try and stop bad behavior without resorting to force. And only those that are on the side of "poor innocent Japan" believe that had anything to do with their decision to go to war. In fact, it is well known that the plan to attack the US had been started well over a year before they even decided to do those embargos.

But yes, they are generally sadly lacking about history, or military theory. I bet 90% would not even know why Japan felt it had to go to war against the US in the first place. Or that if Japan had a non-aggression pact with the US like it did with the Soviets the US would never have gotten involved at all.

 

[BackAgain]

I think FDR was at least a half a scumbag. But I do think that he thought our national interest would be better served by getting into the war against Germany. And with the benefit of hindsight, I suppose many of us agree that he was right.

None of that supports the conspiracy theory that he ever sought to have any part of America attacked.

 

[Sunni Man]

And come on now, what in the hell did Japan attacking have to do with Europe?

It's well known among historians that Roosevelt wanted to declare war on Germany in order to help the British defeat Hitler and liberate France, plus the rest of the occupied European continent. But the American people, and most of Congress, were against sending our young men to fight in another European war.
Roosevelt had been pressuring Japan over their incursion into China by piling on with various crippling sanctions and punitive laws that had humiliated the Japanese people.
He thought this tactic would eventually drive the Japanese into attacking US forces somewhere close to mainline Japan. Thereby drawing America into a war with Japan, and hopefully leading to our involvement in a war with Germany. But the massive sneak against the naval base at Pearl Harbor stunned even him, and war against Japan was declared.
Then a few days later, Hitler declared war on America, and Roosevelt's long term plan to get our country into the war against Germany was an outstanding success.

 

[BackAgain]

I think FDR was at least a half a scumbag. But I do think that he thought our national interest would be better served by getting into the war against Germany. And with the benefit of hindsight, I suppose many of us agree that he was right.

None of that supports the conspiracy theory that he ever sought to have any part of America attacked.

And I wonder why Unky finds it necessary to disagree? Is he saying that if the US hadn’t supposedly goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor, they never would have done it?

Yeah. I’m sure that’s well supported speculation.

 

[Mushroom]

It's well known among historians that Roosevelt wanted to declare war on Germany in order to help the British defeat Hitler and liberate France plus the rest of the occupied European continent. But the American people and most of Congress were against sending our young men to fight in another European war.
Roosevelt had been pressuring Japan over their incursion into China by piling on with various crippling sanctions and punitive laws that had humiliated the Japanese people.
He thought this tactic would eventually drive the Japanese into attacking US forces somewhere close to mainline Japan. Thereby drawing America into a war with Japan, and hopefully leading to a war with Germany. But the massive sneak against the naval base at Pearl Harbor stunned even him, and war was declared.
Then a few days later, Hitler declared war on America, and Roosevelt's plan to get our country into the war against Germany was an outstanding success.

That is one of the most convoluted and insane things I have ever read.

He forced Japan to attack the US, so he could fight Germany?

And sanctions are the way a nation shows its displeasure. So I take it that if Russia attacked the US and UK, that it was because of sanctions done for their attacking Ukraine?

But the sanctions had nothing to do with Japan attacking, they never had been. Their plans to attack the US date to well before any of those sanctions. Japan wanted the Dutch East Indies, and they knew they could not take them with the US and UK in the area.

And this can be proved easily, in their Declaration of War. Tell me, have you ever actually read it?

IMPERIAL RESCRIPT
WE, by the grace of Heaven, Emperor of Japan, seated on the throne occupied by the same dynasty from time immemorial, enjoin upon ye, Our loyal and brave subjects:

We hereby declare War on the United States of America and the British Empire. The men and officers of Our Army and Navy shall do their utmost in prosecuting the war. Our public servants of various departments shall perform faithfully and diligently their respective duties; the entire nation with a united will shall mobilize their total strength so that nothing will miscarry in the attainment of Our war aims.

To ensure the stability of East Asia and to contribute to world peace is the far-sighted policy which was formulated by Our Great Illustrious Imperial Grandsire [Emperor Meiji] and Our Great Imperial Sire succeeding Him [Emperor Taishō], and which We lay constantly to heart. To cultivate friendship among nations and to enjoy prosperity in common with all nations, has always been the guiding principle of Our Empire's foreign policy. It has been truly unavoidable and far from Our wishes that Our Empire has been brought to cross swords with America and Britain. More than four years have passed since China, failing to comprehend the true intentions of Our Empire, and recklessly courting trouble, disturbed the peace of East Asia and compelled Our Empire to take up arms. Although there has been reestablished the National Government of China, with which Japan had effected neighborly intercourse and cooperation, the regime which has survived in Chungking, relying upon American and British protection, still continues its fratricidal opposition.

https://tmcdaniel.palmerseminary.edu/Rescript-English.pdf

Nowhere in there does it make a peep about the sanctions. And why attack the UK? They had no sanctions of importance against Japan, why attack them? The same with the Dutch East Indies. The Dutch at that time were occupied by Germany, so were in many ways an ally even though the DEI were declared neutral in the war. So if it was all about US sanctions, why invade a neutral country?

I love when people absolutely ignore history and reality, and make up some fantasy to try and explain things.

Oh, and if it was all so the US could declare war against Germany, why did they not do that?