The Day of Infamy

[Mushroom]

And I wonder why Unky finds it necessary to disagree? Is he saying that if the US hadn’t supposedly goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor, they never would have done it?

The Japanese were intending to attack by the end of 1941, and they started their plans in 1940. Long before any seizing of assets or embargo.

And notice, none of them can explain why they attacked the UK or Dutch East Indies if it was all about what the US had done. Poop face simply can't stand for somebody to point out how expansionist and warmongering Japan was in the early Showa era. They had been in a series of wars of expansion since the end of the Tokugawa Shogunate. Starting in 1874 when they attacked Formosa, and then to Korea, China (twice), Russia (multiple times), China when they took over Manchuria and renamed it Manchukuo, and installed their former Emperor as a puppet ruler, and it just goes on and on and on.

 

[Mushroom]

Then you must really love the nonsense you post

I already gave a reference. How about providing your reason and a reference to back it up?

Oh, wait, what am I saying. Just your saying so makes it real, right?

 

[Sunni Man]

That is one of the most convoluted and insane things I have ever read.

That's exactly how people here feel reading your posts. ...

 

[AZrailwhale]

I think FDR was at least a half a scumbag. But I do think that he thought our national interest would be better served by getting into the war against Germany. And with the benefit of hindsight, I suppose many of us agree that he was right.

None of that supports the conspiracy theory that he ever sought to have any part of America attacked.

In my opinion he was a lot closer to 100% scumbag. But getting into a war with Japan would interfere with his plans to support the British by incrementally getting us into a full-blown war with Germany and Italy. FDR thought Germany was a long-term threat to the USA. Like everyone else he underestimated the Japanese.

 

[AZrailwhale]

It's well known among historians that Roosevelt wanted to declare war on Germany in order to help the British defeat Hitler and liberate France, plus the rest of the occupied European continent. But the American people, and most of Congress, were against sending our young men to fight in another European war.
Roosevelt had been pressuring Japan over their incursion into China by piling on with various crippling sanctions and punitive laws that had humiliated the Japanese people.
He thought this tactic would eventually drive the Japanese into attacking US forces somewhere close to mainline Japan. Thereby drawing America into a war with Japan, and hopefully leading to our involvement in a war with Germany. But the massive sneak against the naval base at Pearl Harbor stunned even him, and war against Japan was declared.
Then a few days later, Hitler declared war on America, and Roosevelt's long term plan to get our country into the war against Germany was an outstanding success.

You are wrong. FDR WAS pressuring the Japanese, but it was to get them out of China. There was a fair amount of outrage among the American people about the atrocities the Japanese were committing in China. He didn’t want to fight Japan, he really needed peace in Asia so he could concentrate our small peacetime force against Germany. Even after Pearl and with the outrage, FDR still wanted and agreed with “Germany first”.

 

[Unkotare]

.... can't stand for somebody to point out how expansionist and warmongering Japan was in the early Showa era. ....

Who has disputed this? Still frustrated over your idol?

 

[Unkotare]

... There was a fair amount of outrage among the American people about the atrocities the Japanese were committing in China. ...

Link?

 

[DudleySmith]

You are wrong. FDR WAS pressuring the Japanese, but it was to get them out of China. There was a fair amount of outrage among the American people about the atrocities the Japanese were committing in China. He didn’t want to fight Japan, he really needed peace in Asia so he could concentrate our small peacetime force against Germany. Even after Pearl and with the outrage, FDR still wanted and agreed with “Germany first”.

In both World wars Germany launched submarine warfare on our trade and shipping with our major markets, so yes, Germany was 'first'. It wasn't rocket science that Europe would be a priority over Asia. Unrestricted submarine warfare against neutral countries tends to piss people off. So does using pitchforks on babies.

 

[Mushroom]

Who has disputed this? Still frustrated over your idol?

Show me where I ever said that. Because I can promise I did not, ever.

As usual Poop Face, you can not actually dispute with actual facts, so just sling insult.

 

[Mushroom]

Link?

Well, we can start with the Panay and Ladybird Crisis.

You know, that attack on US and British ships (USS Panay, HMS Ladybird, HMS Bee) during the Rape of Nanking? It took a lot of work by the Roosevelt Administration to prevent that from flaring into a war. In fact, more recent information has shown that it was a deliberate attack in an attempt to draw the US into war in 1937.



Plus China at that time had been a US ally for over 40 years. You really think the US was ignoring what was going on there? Hell, one of the most famous actresses of the era was doing all she could to rally support in the US.

Upon the Japanese invasion of Manchuria in the mid-1930s, the United States grew sympathetic towards China, resulting in more favorable portrayals of Wong in US films. In 1937, the Japanese began invading China as they tried to expand their empire, which signified the start of the second Sino-Japanese War. As Japan became more aggressive, the United States grew more sympathetic for China, despite the continued enforcement of the 1924 Immigration Act in the States. This shift in the US’s opinion of Chinese immigrants is reflected in US films, which is best seen through the film adaptation of Pearl S. Buck’s The Good Earth. In this film, Chinese farmers and their struggles were shown and very well-received by US audiences, who could relate to the characters, because of many Americans still struggling with the financial fallout of the Great Depression.

https://digitalcommons.csbsju.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1021&context=ur_thesis

Wow, once again by simply demanding such proof, you show you lack almost no understanding of that era, or what was actually going on in the world before WWII.

 

[Mushroom]

In both World wars Germany launched submarine warfare on our trade and shipping with our major markets, so yes, Germany was 'first'. It wasn't rocket science that Europe would be a priority over Asia. Unrestricted submarine warfare against neutral countries tends to piss people off. So does using pitchforks on babies.

And the US almost went to war several times with Germany prior to December 1941 because of that submarine warfare. Specifically, the USS Ruben James (DD-245), which was sunk by a German submarine on 31 October 1941 as part of the "Neutrality Patrol". This was a mission to keep all warships of the European combatants outside of US territorial waters. Including both Germany and the UK. With a crew of 143 and 1 civilian, only 44 survived the sinking.



Just as it almost had during WWI, the US almost went to war with Germany long before the two finally did go to war with each other.

It always makes me sad, how little most seem to know about WWII or what lead to it. Like they only learned the absolute minimum in school, and never bothered to learn a single thing about it afterwards.

 

[Unkotare]

Show me where I ever said that. Because I can promise I did not, ever.

As usual Poop Face, you can not actually dispute with actual facts, so just sling insult.

Look who’s talking.

 

[Unkotare]

Link?

.

 

[Unkotare]

Show me where I ever said that. Because I can promise I did not, ever.
...

Read your own quoted words on post #26.

 

[Unkotare]

Well, we can start with the Panay and Ladybird Crisis.

.....

Doesn't support your claim.

 

[Unkotare]

....

Plus China at that time had been a US ally for over 40 years. ...

Yeah, such good buddies that the Chinese Exclusion Act wasn't repealed until 1943.

 

[Unkotare]

....

Wow, once again by simply demanding such proof, you show ....

Asking someone to support their claim only shows that the person has not yet supported the claim. Come on, you can get some of these yourself.

 

[Unkotare]

...

It always makes me sad, how little most seem to know about WWII or what lead to it. ....

You'd better think about that.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Link?

Look it up for yourself. I don’t waste time providing links to people who will disregard them out of hand.

 

[Unkotare]

Look it up for yourself. ...

= talking out your ass