The Day of Infamy

[DudleySmith]

Far more popular among Left-wing nut jobs and neo-facist-socialists. Whom know even less history nor understand it; being goose-stepping robots.

Not in this forum; here it's GOP shills, all day long.

 

[marvin martian]

The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on12/7/41 was FDR's greatest political victory. The reluctance of Americans to get into another war to rescue France was gone in a couple of hours in Hawaii on dec. 7. FDR's favorite Soldier, COS George Marshall who had an allegedly photographic memory couldn't remember where he was the night before the "Day of Infamy" and why he was late for work and why he held the decoded message indicating an imminent attack for hours while the Army Communications network (conveniently) went down and he sent a Western Union telegram that arrived at the same time as the Japanese Zeroes. FDR most likely underestimated the Japanese military and thought that an attack would galvanize Americans into supporting the "real war" in Europe.

Hysterical leftists proclaimed January 6, 2021 was worse.

 

[Stryder50]

The vast majority of what they got were antiquated inter-war era biplanes. Probably the most advanced aircraft they had before the P-40 was the Soviet SB class bombers. But China did not need bombers near as much as they needed fighters.

Their lack of significant numbers of decent fighters was constantly a problem they faced.

Even greater problem faced was lack of significant numbers of trained and capable pilots. Hence Chennault's view that better trained "Western" pilots fighting for China would be a benefit.

Interestingly, China did want bombers, so they could take the war to Japan's homeland. During 1940 they were lobbying to get B-17s but that was turned down by Marshall and others. The idea was to use them to firebomb Japan's cities. As it was, when the 2nd AVG was formed and in process of shipping, it had 33 Lockheed @-29 Hudson's;

Lockheed Hudson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and 33 Douglas DB-7~A-20 Havoc/Boston's;

Douglas A-20 Havoc - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Though en-route to China (along with air and ground crews) at time of the Pearl Harbor attack, they were re-routed into Allied inventories in the Middle East and Australia respectively.

Gertting back to the fighter thing, many major nations still had and used bi-wing fighters in their inventories when the war started (though often in the remote areas of their realms). China did receive some Russian I-16's (and I-15s)when the Soviets were involved in providing aid and training to China.

Polikarpov I-16 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stryder50]

The Japanese planes on the whole were inferior to the P-40. The only ones superior to it were the relative handful of A6M Zeros. The IJN assigned less than 30 and possibly as few as 15 Zeros to China. It needed every single one it could get for the carrier air groups. As late as Midway, second line IJN carriers like Hosho and Ryujo carried A5Ms instead of Zeros. The AVG faced almost exclusively aircraft like the fixed gear Nakajima Ki-27 Nate and the Mitsubishi A5M Claude both fixed gear aircraft with twin thirty caliber synchronized machine guns and much slower than a P-40.

IIRC, by the time of the Pearl Harbor attack, the IJN and it's aircraft had withdrawn from China, being busy in operations throughout the Pacific. China was left to be an IJArmy show only. Prior to this, the A6M Zeke* had been used by the IJN in China and a "crashed" version in fairly good shape had been examined and analyzed by Chennault, with report sent to Washington D.C. (to mixed and non-productive results).

Both the (IJArmy) Nakajima Ki-27 Nate;

Nakajima Ki-27 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and the (IJNavy)Mitsubishi A5M Claude;

Mitsubishi A5M - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

... Had been dropped from production before the time of the Pearl Harbor attack and were being phased out to be replaced by;
IJA Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa/Oscar;

Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

*IJN Mitsubishi A6M Zeke;

Mitsubishi A6M Zero - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

... respectively.

As one might see, both the Oscar and the Zeke(Zero) are similar in design/appearance. Adding to the confusion for many is that the AVG was inclined to report any and all Japanese fighters encountered as "Zeros" no matter the real type. Although they would be more specific when debriefed after a mission.

* For those not in the know, the USA applied boy 'code' names to Japanese fighters and girl 'code' names to bombers and others such as transport, liaison, etc.

While early on the AVG mostly encountered IJA(JAAF) Nate's, they first encountered Oscar's on about Dec.24th. And while elements of the AVG had been arriving back in Spring 1941 onward, their first combat encounter was on Dec. 20th. Over the following months, they encountered Nate's less often and the Oscars increasingly.

A good book for details on the AVG is Daniel Ford's "Flying Tigers"; Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and his American Volunteers, 1941-1942 (Daniel Ford)
For other material on the AVG:

Flying Tigers AVG | Official Website of the AVG Flying Tigers​

Flying Tigers - Wikipedia​

The Flying Tigers: How Americans fought for China ... - NPR​

Dec. 20, 1941, the AVG, Flying Tigers Fly in Combat For ...​

 

[francoHFW]

The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on12/7/41 was FDR's greatest political victory. The reluctance of Americans to get into another war to rescue France was gone in a couple of hours in Hawaii on dec. 7. FDR's favorite Soldier, COS George Marshall who had an allegedly photographic memory couldn't remember where he was the night before the "Day of Infamy" and why he was late for work and why he held the decoded message indicating an imminent attack for hours while the Army Communications network (conveniently) went down and he sent a Western Union telegram that arrived at the same time as the Japanese Zeroes. FDR most likely underestimated the Japanese military and thought that an attack would galvanize Americans into supporting the "real war" in Europe.

English speakers have never done a damn thing for France, next time go through Italy and Austria as they were Hitler's allies. At the beginning of every one of these wars, the English speakers always leave France holding the bag.... English speakers always think they are the smartest in the world. But actually they have the incredible advantage of not having a border with anyone and having the English Channel and the Atlantic Ocean et cetera. They are terrible allies for France because they never have an army until two or three years after the war starts lol... Centuries of British hate propaganda is what you people know about it lol. The same damn people that are the only people in the world that don't know the difference between socialism and communism. Democracy DUHHH. Savage capitalist idiots and dupes....

 

[Mushroom]

The Japanese planes on the whole were inferior to the P-40. The only ones superior to it were the relative handful of A6M Zeros. The IJN assigned less than 30 and possibly as few as 15 Zeros to China. It needed every single one it could get for the carrier air groups. As late as Midway, second line IJN carriers like Hosho and Ryujo carried A5Ms instead of Zeros. The AVG faced almost exclusively aircraft like the fixed gear Nakajima Ki-27 Nate and the Mitsubishi A5M Claude both fixed gear aircraft with twin thirty caliber synchronized machine guns and much slower than a P-40.

Well, that is not unlike most of the world, really.

Pretty much every nation entered the war with interwar era equipment, especially tanks and aircraft. No nation had really been building many "modern" equipment, and the Zero was one of the first that was built before the war, but with performance that would make it formidable during the war.

Just as the USN had the Dauntless for Midway, but still relied on the interwar Vindicator and even the Buffalo.

And the "Claude" was fairly comparable to the US P-26. And in many ways it was the first US "Export Plane". Like the Claude, advances in technology made it obsolete almost as soon as it was adopted, but it was still superior to what most nations used at the time. US units were already in the process of being upgraded to the P-38 and P-43 when war broke out, and the remaining "Peashooters" were to have been boxed up and sent to Philippines and China when the US was pulled into it.

The Interwar period was an interesting one when looking at equipment. Especially as you see some interesting crossing of technologies as each nation was trying to figure out what would work best. A lot of monowing planes like the P-26 and Ju-87 Stuka had fixed landing gear. Then you had the Grumman FF series and late model Soviet I-15 fighters were biplanes with retractable landing gear.

And even the tanks all of the nations used before the war were pretty much obsolete by late 1942. I often chuckle when people talk about the crap the Poles, Soviets, and French had entering the war. However, the German tanks then were just as bad. The Panzer III and IV were still new when the war started, and most units were still using the older I and II. In Poland, they had 1,445 Is, 1,223 IIs, 98 IIIs, and 211 IVs. Their famous "Cat Tanks" were still a few years away then, and used a lot of what they had learned on the battlefield with their earlier models.

And even though most of the interwar equipment was clearly obsolete, everybody still used it because there was so much of it laying around.

Hell, when the Soviet Union collapsed, they still had a biplane in their inventory that was still being produced. And it was not even some inter-war holdout. It was a post-war design from 1947, built until 2001. And China is actually still making that same plane, but they are believed to be modifying it to a monowing.

Go to 2:30 in the video, and you can see we still train against the damned thing.

 

[Mushroom]

Interestingly, China did want bombers, so they could take the war to Japan's homeland. During 1940 they were lobbying to get B-17s but that was turned down by Marshall and others. The idea was to use them to firebomb Japan's cities. As it was, when the 2nd AVG was formed and in process of shipping, it had 33 Lockheed @-29 Hudson's;

This I know, but they never got it and were never going to get it. That was still one of our main bombers at the time, and we were not about to export them to China. So their hopes of bombing Japan in return was only a dream, their only real use was on the battlefields in China. And they never had the numbers of bombers to be effective in that role.

Watching the development of US Bombers in that era is interesting, as in many ways they were more advanced than the fighters. We had monowing bombers as early as 1931, and went through 3 until the B-10 was finally adopted. And the B-10 was later adapted for the B-12 through B-14 bombers, then 2 more prototypes until the B-17 came out.

The A-29 Hudson is kind of an odd duck. A conversion from a civilian airliner, it was designated in the US as a naval patrol vessel and cargo aircraft, but some were converted into bombers. Mostly it is remembered as footnotes in history books as that was the first US aircraft to sink a German submarine. It was a rather good platform, and really was what I jokingly called a "multi-role bomber". Designed for passengers and freight, it was great in those roles. But also great as a naval patrol aircraft (which is how the US mostly used it), as well as a light bomber as it was very maneuverable when compared to most of its contemporaries (they just replaced the depth charges with bombs). But with a payload of only 7 tons of bombs, it was primarily used in that role against submarines and other low risk naval targets.

And yes, China did get some of those. But with such a small bomb load they would never have been effective other than on battlefields. China wanted large bombers, but nobody would give them any. Everybody that was making them were still trying to build up their own inventories, and had none left over for export.

 

[Stryder50]

This I know, but they never got it and were never going to get it. That was still one of our main bombers at the time, and we were not about to export them to China. So their hopes of bombing Japan in return was only a dream, their only real use was on the battlefields in China. And they never had the numbers of bombers to be effective in that role.

Watching the development of US Bombers in that era is interesting, as in many ways they were more advanced than the fighters. We had monowing bombers as early as 1931, and went through 3 until the B-10 was finally adopted. And the B-10 was later adapted for the B-12 through B-14 bombers, then 2 more prototypes until the B-17 came out.

The A-29 Hudson is kind of an odd duck. A conversion from a civilian airliner, it was designated in the US as a naval patrol vessel and cargo aircraft, but some were converted into bombers. Mostly it is remembered as footnotes in history books as that was the first US aircraft to sink a German submarine. It was a rather good platform, and really was what I jokingly called a "multi-role bomber". Designed for passengers and freight, it was great in those roles. But also great as a naval patrol aircraft (which is how the US mostly used it), as well as a light bomber as it was very maneuverable when compared to most of its contemporaries (they just replaced the depth charges with bombs). But with a payload of only 7 tons of bombs, it was primarily used in that role against submarines and other low risk naval targets.

And yes, China did get some of those. But with such a small bomb load they would never have been effective other than on battlefields. China wanted large bombers, but nobody would give them any. Everybody that was making them were still trying to build up their own inventories, and had none left over for export.

PART ONE:

Most of which Ford points out in his book.

Chinese request for the B-17, flown and serviced by American crews, occurred in early 1941 when hashing out details regards Lend-Lease to China. This was when authorization was made by FDR, etc. for formation of the AVG(1st), later followed by plans for the 2nd and 3rd AVG(Wings). By late Spring~Summer of 1941, the P-40s were en-route to China, as were some of the first recruited pilots and ground crews. The A-20s(from a batch originally meant for France) and A-29 were chosen because both were in regular production and there was a supply available. Other USA bombers, such as the B-24, B-25, and B-26 were in development and early stages of production at the time, hence not available for export.

China's request and plan for bomber use was to use airbases in Eastern China closer to Japan. These bases would be lost shortly after the Doolittle Raid of April 1942 when Japanese reprisal attacks and conquests took them away from China. BTW, had the Doolittle B-25s launched a few hundred miles closer, they would have used those Eastern China bases to land on and then become part of Allied Air Forces in China. Interesting footnote is that the B-25 had only been used in a couple of small raids in the South-SouthWestern PTO prior to launch from the Hornet, which is considered their first major use~operation.

North American B-25 Mitchell - Wikipedia​

Martin B-26 Marauder was still in development and early production at that time (late 1941-early 1942) and the Consolidated B-24 Liberators on hand were slated for ETO (and UK) usage.

Martin B-26 Marauder - Wikipedia​

Martin B-26 Marauder - Wikipedia

Consolidated B-24 Liberator - Wikipedia​

As it developed, the B-25 and the B-24 would fly missions out of China as part of the 14th Air Force;

Fourteenth Air Force - Wikipedia​

against targets mostly in China or Western Pacific off China's coast.

As it would turnout, first missions flown out of China against the Japanese homeland were by Boeing B-29 Superfortresses;

Boeing B-29 Superfortress - Wikipedia​

However, it took about ten planeloads of fuel and bombs, flown over the Hump* for each B-29 aircraft mission, so this operation ended as soon as bases on Pacific islands were available (much easier to supply).

The Hump - Wikipedia​

FLYING THE HUMP DURING WORLD WAR II​

~~~~~~~~~~~
Fighters in next post.

 

[Stryder50]

While on subject of CBI and AVG, here's an aspect many didn't know about;

Chinese-American Composite Wing (Provisional) - Wikipedia​

...
The Chinese-American Composite Wing (Provisional) was a combined United States Army Air Forces and a Republic of China Air Force organization. It was administratively assigned to Fourteenth Air Force in China throughout its service from 1 October 1943 – 1 August 1945.

Its operational units were jointly commanded by American and Chinese air force officers, and its aircraft were manned by American and Chinese pilots and air crewmen.

Today, the 1st, 3rd and 5th Groups of CACW still operate in Taiwan, reorganized as 443rd, 427th and 401st Tactical Fighter Wings of the Republic of China Air Force.
...
Aircraft assigned to the CACW included late-series P-40 Warhawks (with the Nationalist Chinese Air Force blue sky with 12-pointed white sun national insignia, rudder markings and squadron/aircraft numbering) and B-25 "Mitchell" medium bombers. The Mitchells included the B-25D & later B-25J series level bombers, the B-25H series attack/ gunship versions equipped with a 75-millimeter cannon in the nose. The Mitchell markings were like the CACW's fighters, wearing the Nationalist Chinese star insignia on the wings and fuselage. In late 1944, USAAF-marked P-51 Mustangs of the B and C series began to be assigned to CACW pilots. Then, in early 1945, "D" and "K" series arrived. Those series differed in details such as the propeller but shared many external characteristics including the bubble canopy.

All U.S. pilots assigned to the CACW were listed as rated pilots in Chinese Air Force, and were authorized to wearing both pilot's wings of both nations.
...

Chinese-American Composite Wing (Provisional) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Chinese-American Composite Wing​

CBI Unit Lineages and History

 

[Stryder50]

More and earlier information and posts, this thread;
WW II (World War Two) - CBI = China/Burma/India Theater of Operations; AVG = American Volunteer Group ~ "Flying Tigers" ~ Etc.

 

[Unkotare]

So this thread is just copy/paste/copy/paste/copy/paste?

 

[AZrailwhale]

This I know, but they never got it and were never going to get it. That was still one of our main bombers at the time, and we were not about to export them to China. So their hopes of bombing Japan in return was only a dream, their only real use was on the battlefields in China. And they never had the numbers of bombers to be effective in that role.

Watching the development of US Bombers in that era is interesting, as in many ways they were more advanced than the fighters. We had monowing bombers as early as 1931, and went through 3 until the B-10 was finally adopted. And the B-10 was later adapted for the B-12 through B-14 bombers, then 2 more prototypes until the B-17 came out.

The A-29 Hudson is kind of an odd duck. A conversion from a civilian airliner, it was designated in the US as a naval patrol vessel and cargo aircraft, but some were converted into bombers. Mostly it is remembered as footnotes in history books as that was the first US aircraft to sink a German submarine. It was a rather good platform, and really was what I jokingly called a "multi-role bomber". Designed for passengers and freight, it was great in those roles. But also great as a naval patrol aircraft (which is how the US mostly used it), as well as a light bomber as it was very maneuverable when compared to most of its contemporaries (they just replaced the depth charges with bombs). But with a payload of only 7 tons of bombs, it was primarily used in that role against submarines and other low risk naval targets.

And yes, China did get some of those. But with such a small bomb load they would never have been effective other than on battlefields. China wanted large bombers, but nobody would give them any. Everybody that was making them were still trying to build up their own inventories, and had none left over for export.

You miscalculated the bomb load. It was one thousand four hundred pounds of bombs. Seven tons would be fourteen thousand pounds of bombs.

 

[Stryder50]

So this thread is just copy/paste/copy/paste/copy/paste?

Some posts yes. For benefit of those whom haven't found or seen such information and images.
You don't have to be here and view if it bothers you.

 

[Stryder50]

PART ONE:

Most of which Ford points out in his book.

Chinese request for the B-17, flown and serviced by American crews, occurred in early 1941 when hashing out details regards Lend-Lease to China. This was when authorization was made by FDR, etc. for formation of the AVG(1st), later followed by plans for the 2nd and 3rd AVG(Wings). By late Spring~Summer of 1941, the P-40s were en-route to China, as were some of the first recruited pilots and ground crews. The A-20s(from a batch originally meant for France) and A-29 were chosen because both were in regular production and there was a supply available. Other USA bombers, such as the B-24, B-25, and B-26 were in development and early stages of production at the time, hence not available for export.

China's request and plan for bomber use was to use airbases in Eastern China closer to Japan. These bases would be lost shortly after the Doolittle Raid of April 1942 when Japanese reprisal attacks and conquests took them away from China. BTW, had the Doolittle B-25s launched a few hundred miles closer, they would have used those Eastern China bases to land on and then become part of Allied Air Forces in China. Interesting footnote is that the B-25 had only been used in a couple of small raids in the South-SouthWestern PTO prior to launch from the Hornet, which is considered their first major use~operation.

North American B-25 Mitchell - Wikipedia​

Martin B-26 Marauder was still in development and early production at that time (late 1941-early 1942) and the Consolidated B-24 Liberators on hand were slated for ETO (and UK) usage.

Martin B-26 Marauder - Wikipedia​

Martin B-26 Marauder - Wikipedia

Consolidated B-24 Liberator - Wikipedia​

As it developed, the B-25 and the B-24 would fly missions out of China as part of the 14th Air Force;

Fourteenth Air Force - Wikipedia​

against targets mostly in China or Western Pacific off China's coast.

As it would turnout, first missions flown out of China against the Japanese homeland were by Boeing B-29 Superfortresses;

Boeing B-29 Superfortress - Wikipedia​

However, it took about ten planeloads of fuel and bombs, flown over the Hump* for each B-29 aircraft mission, so this operation ended as soon as bases on Pacific islands were available (much easier to supply).

The Hump - Wikipedia​

FLYING THE HUMP DURING WORLD WAR II​

~~~~~~~~~~~
Fighters in next post.

PART TWO

FWIW, there were a few other USA bombers existing at the time, but of limited production runs and/or already allocated.

Douglas had one based on it's DC-2 airliner (many early bomber designs in the War were variations of airliner designs) which was breifly considered for the Doolittle raid, but had a wingspan too large for a carrier deck operation. The B-18 Bolo/Digby;
...
The Douglas B-18 Bolo is an American heavy bomber which served with the United States Army Air Corps and the Royal Canadian Air Force (as the Digby) during the late 1930s and early 1940s. The Bolo was developed by the Douglas Aircraft Company from their DC-2, to replace the Martin B-10.

By 1940 standards, it was slow, had an inadequate defensive armament, and carried too small a bomb load. A B-18 was one of the first USAAF aircraft to sink a German U-boat, U-654 on 22 August 1942 in the Caribbean.[2] By 1942, surviving B-18s were relegated to antisubmarine, training and transport duties.
...

Douglas B-18 Bolo - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lockheed came up with an improvement on the A-29 Hudson, the Ventura;
...
The Lockheed Ventura is a twin-engine medium bomber and patrol bomber of World War II.

The Ventura first entered combat in Europe as a bomber with the RAF in late 1942. Designated PV-1 by the United States Navy (US Navy), it entered combat in 1943 in the Pacific. The bomber was also used by the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF), which designated it the Lockheed B-34 (Lexington) and B-37 as a trainer. British Commonwealth forces also used it in several guises, including antishipping and antisubmarine search and attack.

The Ventura was developed from the Lockheed Model 18 Lodestar transport, as a replacement for the Lockheed Hudson bombers then in service with the Royal Air Force. Used in daylight attacks against occupied Europe, they proved to have weaknesses and were removed from bomber duty and some used for patrols by Coastal Command.

After USAAF monopolization of land-based bombers was removed, the US Navy ordered a revised design which entered service as the PV-2 Harpoon for anti-submarine work.
...

Lockheed Ventura - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Martin also had a couple interesting, but limited production types;
The Maryland;

...
The Martin Model 167 Maryland was an American medium bomber[citation needed] that first flew in 1939. It saw action in World War II with France and the United Kingdom.

Design and development​

In response to a December 1937 United States Army Air Corps requirement for an attack aircraft capable of carrying a bombload of 1,200 lb (540 kg) over a range of 1,200 mi (1,000 nmi; 1,900 km) at a speed of 200 mph (170 kn; 320 km/h)[a], the Glenn L. Martin Company produced its Model 167, which was given the official designation XA-22, competing with designs from Bell Aircraft (the Model 9), Douglas (the Douglas DB-7), North American (the NA-40) and Stearman (the Stearman XA-21).[1][2] Martin's design was a twin-engine all-metal monoplane, capable of around 310 mph (500 km/h) with a crew of three. The XA-22 was not adopted for operational service in the U.S., because the contract was won by the Douglas DB-7, which became the A-20 Havoc, but Martin received foreign orders, and about 450 of the fast, twin-engined bombers were built.
...

Martin Maryland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

...

~~~~~~~
The Martin 187 Baltimore was a twin-engined light attack bomber built by the Glenn L. Martin Company in the United States as the A-30. The model was originally ordered by the French in May 1940 as a follow-up to the earlier Martin Maryland, then in service in France. With the fall of France, the production series was diverted to Great Britain and after mid-1941, supplied by the U.S. as Lend Lease equipment.

Development of the Baltimore was hindered by a series of problems, although the type eventually became a versatile combat aircraft. Produced in large numbers, the Baltimore was not used operationally by United States armed forces but eventually served with the British, Canadian, Australian, South African, Hellenic and the Italian air forces.[1] It was subsequently used almost exclusively in the Mediterranean and Middle East theatre of World War II.

Martin Baltimore - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

..........
Some of these "might" have been contenders to supply China, but at the time of 2ndAVG being formed they weren't really available. Hence the use of the A-20 and A-29.

 

[Mushroom]

Chinese request for the B-17, flown and serviced by American crews, occurred in early 1941 when hashing out details regards Lend-Lease to China.

Which then comes to the issue of the US actually selling them, and the deniability of American crews.

All of the pilots of the AVG were civilians, and there were only around 100 of them and primarily in single seat fighters. As the US was still neutral at that time (and actually primarily defending a part of China that they had been given control over), the Japanese largely let it slide. And the US was already producing the P-40 for export to other countries. However, sending heavy bombers with 10 man crews would stretch the credulity of "American Neutrality", especially if they were used to attack Japan itself.

The US could and did "bend" neutrality a few times, but never outright broke it. And the administration was very careful in following that, as both Congress and the population of the US wanted it that way. And pilots leaving the service to go and fight in other countries had already been established by that time. It happened during WWI, the Mexican Civil War, and even the Spanish Civil War. Many would serve in the air forces of multiple countries, going and flying in conflict after conflict.

One that was well known was Fred Lord. He joined the US Army in 1917 with a fraudulent birth certificate, but was discovered and discharged. So he went to Canada and joined the Royal Air Force. He served with them for 2 years, and during that time also served in the Russian Revolution. Then after getting out served with the Mexican Air Force. Then in 1936 joined and served in the Spanish Air Force. In 1941 he returned to the UK but by that time deteriorating vision left him unqualified so he saw service as an auxiliary pilot moving aircraft around the UK. Not unlike the US WASP program.

But a first line US plane conducting attacks on Japan, I don't think Japan or Congress would have ignored that and accepted they were "volunteers".

 

[Stryder50]

This I know, but they never got it and were never going to get it. That was still one of our main bombers at the time, and we were not about to export them to China. So their hopes of bombing Japan in return was only a dream, their only real use was on the battlefields in China. And they never had the numbers of bombers to be effective in that role.

Watching the development of US Bombers in that era is interesting, as in many ways they were more advanced than the fighters. We had monowing bombers as early as 1931, and went through 3 until the B-10 was finally adopted. And the B-10 was later adapted for the B-12 through B-14 bombers, then 2 more prototypes until the B-17 came out.

The A-29 Hudson is kind of an odd duck. A conversion from a civilian airliner, it was designated in the US as a naval patrol vessel and cargo aircraft, but some were converted into bombers. Mostly it is remembered as footnotes in history books as that was the first US aircraft to sink a German submarine. It was a rather good platform, and really was what I jokingly called a "multi-role bomber". Designed for passengers and freight, it was great in those roles. But also great as a naval patrol aircraft (which is how the US mostly used it), as well as a light bomber as it was very maneuverable when compared to most of its contemporaries (they just replaced the depth charges with bombs). But with a payload of only 7 tons of bombs, it was primarily used in that role against submarines and other low risk naval targets.

And yes, China did get some of those. But with such a small bomb load they would never have been effective other than on battlefields. China wanted large bombers, but nobody would give them any. Everybody that was making them were still trying to build up their own inventories, and had none left over for export.

PART THREE

As for fighters for China, when it came to most modern and recent designs, the selection was rather limited. The P-38 and P-39 were still in development somewhat and just starting operational service and intro to USAAC squadrons. So they weren't available. Plus with both having tricycle landing gear it was problematic for them to operate from crude runways. Pretty much left the choice to the P-40. Since Curtiss was about to produce an improved version, the P-40E, the UK was willing to let 100 of the P-40B in it's production allocation go to the AVG in exchange for the P-40Es.

For some further context;
...
The Bell P-39 Airacobra is a fighter produced by Bell Aircraft for the United States Army Air Forces during World War II. It was one of the principal American fighters in service when the United States entered combat. The P-39 was used by the Soviet Air Force, and enabled individual Soviet pilots to collect the highest number of kills attributed to any U.S. fighter type flown by any air force in any conflict.[N 2] Other major users of the type included the Free French, the Royal Air Force, and the Italian Co-Belligerent Air Force.[4]

It had an unusual layout, with the engine installed in the center fuselage, behind the pilot, and driving a tractor propeller in the nose with a long shaft. It was also the first fighter fitted with a tricycle undercarriage.[5] Although its mid-engine placement was innovative, the P-39 design was handicapped by the absence of an efficient turbo-supercharger, preventing it from performing high-altitude work. For this reason it was rejected by the RAF for use over western Europe but adopted by the USSR, where most air combat took place at medium and lower altitudes.

Together with the derivative P-63 Kingcobra, the P-39 was one of the most successful fixed-wing aircraft manufactured by Bell.[6]
...

Bell P-39 Airacobra - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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The Lockheed P-38 Lightning is an American single-seat, twin piston-engined fighter aircraft that was used during World War II. Developed for the United States Army Air Corps by the Lockheed Corporation, the P-38 incorporated a distinctive twin-boom design with a central nacelle containing the cockpit and armament. Along with its use as a general fighter, the P-38 was used in various aerial combat roles, including as a highly effective fighter-bomber, a night fighter, and a long-range escort fighter when equipped with drop tanks.[4] The P-38 was also used as a bomber-pathfinder, guiding streams of medium and heavy bombers, or even other P-38s equipped with bombs, to their targets.[5] Used in the aerial reconnaissance role, the P-38 accounted for 90 percent of the aerial film captured over Europe.[6]

The P-38 was used most successfully in the Pacific Theater of Operations and the China-Burma-India Theater of Operations as the aircraft of America's top aces, Richard Bong (40 victories), Thomas McGuire (38 victories), and Charles H. MacDonald (27 victories). In the South West Pacific theater, the P-38 was the primary long-range fighter of United States Army Air Forces until the introduction of large numbers of P-51D Mustangs toward the end of the war.[7][page needed] Unusual for an early-war fighter design, both engines were supplemented by turbosuperchargers. This gave the P-38 excellent high-altitude performance, making it one of the earliest Allied fighters capable of performing well at high altitudes.[8] The turbosuperchargers also muffled the exhaust, making the P-38's operation relatively quiet.[9] The Lightning was extremely forgiving in-flight and could be mishandled in many ways, but the rate of roll in early versions was low relative to other contemporary fighters; this was addressed in later variants with the introduction of hydraulically boosted ailerons.[10] The P-38 was the only American fighter aircraft in large-scale production throughout American involvement in the war, from the Attack on Pearl Harbor to Victory over Japan Day.[11]
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Lockheed P-38 Lightning - Wikipedia

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With regard to the P-40, like many fighters of the early war years it was largely armed with .30 cal. machine guns(mg). Typical of most machine guns of the era meant to fire rifle type ammunition. The P-40B & C models had two .50 cal. MGs on the nose, firing through the prop, and a pair of .30 cal. MGs in each wing. The P-40E had a more powerful engine, slightly different appearance, and most significantly, six .50 cal. MGs, three in each wing. P-40E started to be available to the AVG about March-April 1942 and would fill in the losses of the P-40Bs and eventually releive them from combat use.
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The Curtiss P-40 Warhawk is an American single-engined, single-seat, all-metal fighter and ground-attack aircraft that first flew in 1938. The P-40 design was a modification of the previous Curtiss P-36 Hawk which reduced development time and enabled a rapid entry into production and operational service. The Warhawk was used by most Allied powers during World War II, and remained in frontline service until the end of the war. It was the third most-produced American fighter of World War II, after the P-51 and P-47; by November 1944, when production of the P-40 ceased, 13,738 had been built,[3] all at Curtiss-Wright Corporation's main production facilities in Buffalo, New York.

P-40 Warhawk was the name the United States Army Air Corps gave the plane, and after June 1941, the USAAF adopted the name for all models, making it the official name in the U.S. for all P-40s. The British Commonwealth and Soviet air forces used the name Tomahawk for models equivalent to the original P-40, P-40B, and P-40C, and the name Kittyhawk for models equivalent to the P-40D and all later variants.
The P-40's liquid-cooled, supercharged Allison V-1710 V-12 engine's lack of a two-speed supercharger made it inferior to Luftwaffe fighters such as the Messerschmitt Bf 109 or the Focke-Wulf Fw 190 in high-altitude combat and it was rarely used in operations in Northwest Europe. However, between 1941 and 1944, the P-40 played a critical role with Allied air forces in three major theaters: North Africa, the Southwest Pacific, and China. It also had a significant role in the Middle East, Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, Alaska and Italy. The P-40's performance at high altitudes was not as important in those theaters, where it served as an air superiority fighter, bomber escort and fighter-bomber. Although it gained a postwar reputation as a mediocre design, suitable only for close air support, more recent research including scrutiny of the records of individual Allied squadrons indicates that this was not the case: the P-40 performed surprisingly well as an air superiority fighter, at times suffering severe losses, but also inflicting a very heavy toll on enemy aircraft.[9] Based on war-time victory claims, over 200 Allied fighter pilots – from the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa, the US and the Soviet Union – became aces flying the P-40. These included at least 20 double aces,[10] mostly over North Africa, China, Burma and India, the South West Pacific and Eastern Europe. The P-40 offered the additional advantages of low cost and durability, which kept it in production as a ground-attack aircraft long after it was obsolescent as a fighter.

P-40s first saw combat with the British Commonwealth squadrons of the Desert Air Force in the Middle East and North African campaigns, during June 1941.[4][5] No. 112 Squadron Royal Air Force, was among the first to operate Tomahawks in North Africa and the unit was the first Allied military aviation unit to feature the "shark mouth" logo,[6][7] copying similar markings on some Luftwaffe Messerschmitt Bf 110 twin-engine fighters.[6] [N 1]

Curtiss P-40 Warhawk - Wikipedia

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