The Day of Infamy

[AZrailwhale]

= talking out your ass

Nope, you don't believe anything anyone posts or links to, so why should we expend any effort on you?

 

[Unkotare]

Nope, ...

Prove it.

 

[Unkotare]

....you don't believe anything anyone posts or links to, .....

Why do you say that?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Why do you say that?

You're kidding right? Just go back and look at your posts on all the threads you post on.

 

[Unkotare]

You're kidding right? Just go back and look at your posts on all the threads you post on.

Show me a link to reliable evidence of anything that I have not believed. AGAIN, support your claim.

 

[sparky]

I love when people absolutely ignore history and reality, and make up some fantasy to try and explain things.

Isn't that what the victors usually do?

~S~

 

[francoHFW]

The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on12/7/41 was FDR's greatest political victory. The reluctance of Americans to get into another war to rescue France was gone in a couple of hours in Hawaii on dec. 7. FDR's favorite Soldier, COS George Marshall who had an allegedly photographic memory couldn't remember where he was the night before the "Day of Infamy" and why he was late for work and why he held the decoded message indicating an imminent attack for hours while the Army Communications network (conveniently) went down and he sent a Western Union telegram that arrived at the same time as the Japanese Zeroes. FDR most likely underestimated the Japanese military and thought that an attack would galvanize Americans into supporting the "real war" in Europe.

What about rescuing democracy, brainwashed functional moron? The GOP wrecked the Treaty of Versailles and the League of Nations and the world economy and gave us isolationism and semi fascism... The GOP wrecked the world economy again in 2008 and now we have semi fascists again it's a recurring theme. The GOP wrecks the world and we get more semi fascists and actual fascists ArgHHH

 

[francoHFW]

That is one of the most convoluted and insane things I have ever read.

He forced Japan to attack the US, so he could fight Germany?

And sanctions are the way a nation shows its displeasure. So I take it that if Russia attacked the US and UK, that it was because of sanctions done for their attacking Ukraine?

But the sanctions had nothing to do with Japan attacking, they never had been. Their plans to attack the US date to well before any of those sanctions. Japan wanted the Dutch East Indies, and they knew they could not take them with the US and UK in the area.

And this can be proved easily, in their Declaration of War. Tell me, have you ever actually read it?

https://tmcdaniel.palmerseminary.edu/Rescript-English.pdf

Nowhere in there does it make a peep about the sanctions. And why attack the UK? They had no sanctions of importance against Japan, why attack them? The same with the Dutch East Indies. The Dutch at that time were occupied by Germany, so were in many ways an ally even though the DEI were declared neutral in the war. So if it was all about US sanctions, why invade a neutral country?

I love when people absolutely ignore history and reality, and make up some fantasy to try and explain things.

Oh, and if it was all so the US could declare war against Germany, why did they not do that?

Indonesia was Dutch and full of oil that's why they wanted it. America did not declare war on Germany, Germany declared war on America. Bad move.

 

[francoHFW]

The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on12/7/41 was FDR's greatest political victory. The reluctance of Americans to get into another war to rescue France was gone in a couple of hours in Hawaii on dec. 7. FDR's favorite Soldier, COS George Marshall who had an allegedly photographic memory couldn't remember where he was the night before the "Day of Infamy" and why he was late for work and why he held the decoded message indicating an imminent attack for hours while the Army Communications network (conveniently) went down and he sent a Western Union telegram that arrived at the same time as the Japanese Zeroes. FDR most likely underestimated the Japanese military and thought that an attack would galvanize Americans into supporting the "real war" in Europe.

And we expected the French to rescue us. We had no army at all in 1940 and thought the French army was the greatest army in the world. Which it may have been but they were not lucky...

 

[Mushroom]

Read your own quoted words on post #26.

Where I never mentioned FDR. Therefore, your using that post (which is yours and not mine) is an utter failure.

I even followed that chain back, and nowhere did I say anything even close to what you claim.

Come on now, put up or shut up. Show where I said I idolized FDR. YOu keep insisting I do, and that I said so. But as usual, Poop Face completely fail in trying to back up your claim.

 

[Mushroom]

Asking someone to support their claim only shows that the person has not yet supported the claim.

Oh, I back up my claims all the time. How about you, Poop Face?

You have been telling us for ages that is a mistranslation of your name. I even posted your name in katakana, and gave the exact translation. Yet you insist that is wrong, but have yet to provide your own.

No, the thing is I realized long ago that you make up almost everything you say, and most of it is highly inaccurate. I actually do provide reference for what I say. You just insist everybody but you is wrong, and provide no real references at all. Half the time even quoting yourself as validation of your claims.

 

[Mushroom]

Isn't that what the victors usually do?

No, but that is something the mentally challenged or impaired do frequently.

 

[Unkotare]

Show me where I ever said that. ...

The other part, dumbass.

 

[Mushroom]

The other part, dumbass.

Wow, this is the typical rabbit hole any conversation with you descends into.

You can not even clearly state what it is you are trying to say. You simply imply, and demand that others decipher what it is you even mean by jumping back a dozen or more posts. Then you make a claim, refuse to ever back it up or provide any proof, and strut around screaming you won.

YOu make claims left and right, and almost every post is full of the litter of your claims that you never seem able to back up. Ever.

You claim that I mistranslated your name. Yet you provide no proof that there is any other translation for your name but Poop Face.

You claim my idol is FDR, and that I said so in this thread. Yet, you provide no proof of that, and then spin in circles trying to derail anything questioning you on that.

You see, you are largely a clown in here. And to be honest, I find that rather sad. I would like to see what an actual debate with you would be like, but you have this phobia about saying more than one sentence, validating your claims, or any kind of actual reference.

 

[whitehall]

Oh what a bunch of nonsense.

But here fist he first logical flaw. The Chief of Staff was late for work, and could not explain why?

Tell me, exactly how often does the Chief of Staff work on Sunday?

And the system in place at that time was to send a telegram when possible for reasons of security. Radio signals can be intercepted, telegrams can not. However, the biggest delay is that the Navy was that it was not tagged as urgent but routine, which led to delays in getting the message to the Navy on Pearl, and recoding it. By the time that was done, the attack was underway. And shortly afterwards, the WU office was moved onto the Navy Base both to increase the speed, and as for security.

The Philippines was radioed with an alert message, but only warned of an attack after it started. Once again, for security reasons.

And come on now, what in the hell did Japan attacking have to do with Europe? You are really stretching things here.

It was acknowledged during the crisis days and weeks in late 1941 that COS Marshall was expected to report for work every day including Sunday and his staff expected him to report on the Day of Infamy and they were desperate to contact him when they decoded the message. Marshall was late for duty on the day they needed him the most. According to later testimony by Marshall who was credited with a near photographic memory, he could not recall where he was on the most important date in history up to that time. The Brits were shocked that there was no national intelligence network during the FDR years and the national assumption was that the Japanese were a war like little yellow race that was incapable of building a plane that would fly or a ship that would float. It was a recipe for disaster but the crucial Carriers were conveniently out at sea at the time.

 

[Mushroom]

the national assumption was that the Japanese were a war like little yellow race that was incapable of building a plane that would fly or a ship that would float.

Which is nonsense, as they had been watching them sweep though China since 1937. Even sending the AVG to help the Chinese as the aircraft the Japanese had were superior to the ones we had been giving them for years.

Retired Army fighter pilot Claire Chennault had been working for the Chinese Air Force. He became the leader of the AVG. Chennault gave the U.S. pilots lessons in the geography and politics of China. He taught them Japanese tactics. He prohibited pilots from engaging in dog fights with the more nimble Japanese fighters. Instead pilots were to conduct diving attacks. The P-40Bs were sturdy, well-armed and faster in a dive. They also had pilot armor and self-sealing fuel tanks. The AVG’s P-40s carried the symbol of China and a shark face on the cowling. The AVG took the name “The Flying Tigers” and adopted Walt Disney’s flying tiger design.

When the U.S. entered the war on December 8, 1941, the AVG had 82 pilots and 79 aircraft. Its first combat mission was on December 20. The AVG supported the Chinese and British fighting against the Japanese offensive into Burma. The group had limited medical support and a shortage of maintenance personnel. Nonetheless, the AVG was credited with 297 enemy aircraft destroyed. Fourteen AVG pilots were killed, captured, or missing in combat. On July 4, 1942, the AVG was disbanded. Chennault rejoined the U.S. Army and commanded all U.S. Army air units in China as a major general. The AVG was replaced by the 23rd Fighter Group of the United States Army Air Forces. Five of the AVG pilots joined the 23rd. Others returned to their services, flew transports in China, or took civilian jobs.

Flying Tigers Fought Japanese From China

Dedicated to World War II Aviation

www.worldwariiaviation.org

Once again, you vomit up a lot of conjecture and fantasy, but do not do a damned thing to validate anything you claim.

 

[Stryder50]

Which is nonsense, as they had been watching them sweep though China since 1937. Even sending the AVG to help the Chinese as the aircraft the Japanese had were superior to the ones we had been giving them for years.

Flying Tigers Fought Japanese From China

Dedicated to World War II Aviation

www.worldwariiaviation.org

Once again, you vomit up a lot of conjecture and fantasy, but do not do a damned thing to validate anything you claim.

If anything, the P-40 was "superior" to the planes the German's, Italians, and Russians had been giving the Chinese prior to the AVG showing up.

Planes were only part of the equation. Pilot training (or lack of) and quality was even more significant. Would be a year or two before meaningful numbers of Chinese pilots could be considered on par to the Japanese.

 

[Stryder50]

It's about bashing Roosevelt; that a popular conspiracy nut hobby among right wing nutjobs and neo-Nazis. Most of these idiots don't know squat about history, they're just parrots.

Far more popular among Left-wing nut jobs and neo-facist-socialists. Whom know even less history nor understand it; being goose-stepping robots.

 

[Mushroom]

If anything, the P-40 was "superior" to the planes the German's, Italians, and Russians had been giving the Chinese prior to the AVG showing up.

The vast majority of what they got were antiquated inter-war era biplanes. Probably the most advanced aircraft they had before the P-40 was the Soviet SB class bombers. But China did not need bombers near as much as they needed fighters.

Their lack of significant numbers of decent fighters was constantly a problem they faced.

 

[AZrailwhale]

If anything, the P-40 was "superior" to the planes the German's, Italians, and Russians had been giving the Chinese prior to the AVG showing up.

Planes were only part of the equation. Pilot training (or lack of) and quality was even more significant. Would be a year or two before meaningful numbers of Chinese pilots could be considered on par to the Japanese.

The Japanese planes on the whole were inferior to the P-40. The only ones superior to it were the relative handful of A6M Zeros. The IJN assigned less than 30 and possibly as few as 15 Zeros to China. It needed every single one it could get for the carrier air groups. As late as Midway, second line IJN carriers like Hosho and Ryujo carried A5Ms instead of Zeros. The AVG faced almost exclusively aircraft like the fixed gear Nakajima Ki-27 Nate and the Mitsubishi A5M Claude both fixed gear aircraft with twin thirty caliber synchronized machine guns and much slower than a P-40.