The Civil War

[there4eyeM]

Many Brits didn't understand why the Obama administration made it quite clear and was so outspoken about the UK Government's decision to offer the people of Scotland a referendum on whether they wished to remain in the UK or become an independent nation.
Madeleine Albright declared that the US did not want to see a close ally become "fragmented". In private though she went further by declaring the UK's decision as "Crazy".
Of course, the real reason the US objected was the same reason Spain objected. Neither wanted states or nations being allowed to freely gain independence based on the majority of their electorate voting themselves out of a union, and they didn't want it to become the internationally accepted norm. Spain knew it would lose Catalonia and the US knew that at any point in the future any state could vote to, and secede from the Union if that is what the majority of people voted.

Would you call the US and Spain's stance 'Free World' or 'Totalitarian?'

The United States states was voluntarily formed by participating independent states into a Perpetual Union. That fact makes your comparison illogical.

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

Many Brits didn't understand why the Obama administration made it quite clear and was so outspoken about the UK Government's decision to offer the people of Scotland a referendum on whether they wished to remain in the UK or become an independent nation.
Madeleine Albright declared that the US did not want to see a close ally become "fragmented". In private though she went further by declaring the UK's decision as "Crazy".
Of course, the real reason the US objected was the same reason Spain objected. Neither wanted states or nations being allowed to freely gain independence based on the majority of their electorate voting themselves out of a union, and they didn't want it to become the internationally accepted norm. Spain knew it would lose Catalonia and the US knew that at any point in the future any state could vote to, and secede from the Union if that is what the majority of people voted.

Would you call the US and Spain's stance 'Free World' or 'Totalitarian?'

The United States states was voluntarily formed by participating independent states into a Perpetual Union. That fact makes your comparison illogical.

So you're saying that if the entire population of Florida who felt they no longer had a great deal in common with the rest of the US, decided to have a referendum and a massive majority voted to leave the Union, Washington would refuse to recognise their self-determination and would force them to remain?

Perpetual Union? Is that actually in the Constitution? It sounds as repressive as slavery.
They got rid of slavery so I would think they could get rid of PU.

 

[Unkotare]

That’s the thing you fail to comprehend. Lincoln did invade, conquer, and murder.

Your contempt for the United States aside, the President of the United States deployed United States troops within the United States when a special-interest faction rejected the United States Constitution and attempted to deprive Americans in several of the United States of their United States citizenship.

The United States won, the was United States preserved, and the citizens threatened with loss of United States citizenship protected.

Oh brother. My contempt has nothing to do with the historical facts. You’re happy Lincoln started a war against the south, failing to understand the horrific consequences. Think bigger.

Lincoln post dates the Perpetual Union and the sedition that trying to destroy it represents. It was the attempt of states to fracture the Union that provoked violence. As a devout southerner, Andrew Jackson, declared, well before Lincoln, "The Union! It must be preserved!" The addiction to slavery led the south to commit a gross error and the country paid a huge price for it.

Again you’re not thinking. If a portion of the Union no longer wants to be in the Union, why kill them?

You are a statist authoritarian, but don’t know it.

Your philosophy and that of the Lincoln Cult can be condensed down to this: kill them to keep them.

Fuck you selfish, slavery-loving scumbags. You don't get to break up MY country just because you are afraid to live without the slave labor of other human beings. Get your lazy ass out there and pick your own fucking cotton. If you think it's a better idea to destroy the unity of MY country, you will be destroyed. You best learn humility, boy, or you will be taught again.

EVERY so-called 'confederate' state had organized, armed regiments of CITIZENS of those states actively fighting against the traitorous scumbag 'confederates.' EVERY one.

Love you too even though you’re dumb as a box of rocks.

You seem to consider yourself quite intelligent. Upon what do you base this delusion?

 

[gipper]

Y

That’s the thing you fail to comprehend. Lincoln did invade, conquer, and murder.

Your contempt for the United States aside, the President of the United States deployed United States troops within the United States when a special-interest faction rejected the United States Constitution and attempted to deprive Americans in several of the United States of their United States citizenship.

The United States won, the was United States preserved, and the citizens threatened with loss of United States citizenship protected.

Oh brother. My contempt has nothing to do with the historical facts. You’re happy Lincoln started a war against the south, failing to understand the horrific consequences. Think bigger.

Lincoln post dates the Perpetual Union and the sedition that trying to destroy it represents. It was the attempt of states to fracture the Union that provoked violence. As a devout southerner, Andrew Jackson, declared, well before Lincoln, "The Union! It must be preserved!" The addiction to slavery led the south to commit a gross error and the country paid a huge price for it.

Again you’re not thinking. If a portion of the Union no longer wants to be in the Union, why kill them?

You are a statist authoritarian, but don’t know it.

Your philosophy and that of the Lincoln Cult can be condensed down to this: kill them to keep them.

Fuck you selfish, slavery-loving scumbags. You don't get to break up MY country just because you are afraid to live without the slave labor of other human beings. Get your lazy ass out there and pick your own fucking cotton. If you think it's a better idea to destroy the unity of MY country, you will be destroyed. You best learn humility, boy, or you will be taught again.

EVERY so-called 'confederate' state had organized, armed regiments of CITIZENS of those states actively fighting against the traitorous scumbag 'confederates.' EVERY one.

Love you too even though you’re dumb as a box of rocks.

You seem to consider yourself quite intelligent. Upon what do you base this delusion?

Thank you. I am.

unfortunately, you aren’t.

 

[schmidlap]

... Of course, the real reason the US objected was the same reason Spain objected. Neither wanted states or nations being allowed to freely gain independence based on the majority of their electorate voting themselves out of a union, and they didn't want it to become the internationally accepted norm. Spain knew it would lose Catalonia and the US knew that at any point in the future any state could vote to, and secede from the Union if that is what the majority of people voted.

Most of the slave states that attempted to secede from the United States in 1861 did not do so "based on the majority of their electorate voting themselves out of a union." The special interests in those states, the "fire-eaters", arrogated the power to deprive all citizens who wished to maintain their United States citizenship - to summarily take it from them.

In fact, at the time, deep divisions existed over the future of slavery and the direction of Southern society itself:

The Secession Of The Southern States

www.civilwarhome.com

The precedent of a region unilaterally withdrawing from a nation sanctions ongoing political dissolution - e.g., Tennessee asserting its right to abscond from an independent Confederacy, followed by West Tennesseans opting to withdraw from Tennessee, followed by Nashville seceding from West Tennessee, triggering the Green Hills neighborhood severing ties with Nashville, etc., etc. etc. - and every stage in the evolving dissolution established by the right to secede could be sanctioned by a democratic vote in each jurisdiction.

A permissive attitude to egress unleashes a sequence that results in disintegration, political chaos.

Had Lincoln deferred to the slave interests, it's inevitable that deep differences within the new nation would have resulted in its disbanding. Would Jefferson Davis fight a war to to prevent Virginia's departure from a Confederacy whose viability was highly dubious?

The European Union is a loose association of compound states with preexisting protocols for a nation to exit. In contrast, the U.S. Constitution contains procedures for admitting new states into the nation, but none for a state to leave.

It should be noted that the United Kingdom's breaking away from the European Union is a disparate matter in that the U.S. Constitution contains no such provisions for a state to leave the United States.

The United States Supreme Court has so ruled:

“If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede.
(Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, ‘one Nation, indivisible.’)”
Conservative Justice Antonin Scalia​

Brexit is an incitement for the majority of Scots who wish their nation to remain in the EU, but have had their nation's status as an EU member dictated to them by politicians in London. Again, unlike the U.S. Constitution, PM Cameron acknowledged the legal right of UK members to secession when he signed the Edinburgh Agreement that authorized the Scottish referendum on independence.

 

[Unkotare]

Madison was right in Federalist #10.

 

[Unkotare]

Y

That’s the thing you fail to comprehend. Lincoln did invade, conquer, and murder.

Your contempt for the United States aside, the President of the United States deployed United States troops within the United States when a special-interest faction rejected the United States Constitution and attempted to deprive Americans in several of the United States of their United States citizenship.

The United States won, the was United States preserved, and the citizens threatened with loss of United States citizenship protected.

Oh brother. My contempt has nothing to do with the historical facts. You’re happy Lincoln started a war against the south, failing to understand the horrific consequences. Think bigger.

Lincoln post dates the Perpetual Union and the sedition that trying to destroy it represents. It was the attempt of states to fracture the Union that provoked violence. As a devout southerner, Andrew Jackson, declared, well before Lincoln, "The Union! It must be preserved!" The addiction to slavery led the south to commit a gross error and the country paid a huge price for it.

Again you’re not thinking. If a portion of the Union no longer wants to be in the Union, why kill them?

You are a statist authoritarian, but don’t know it.

Your philosophy and that of the Lincoln Cult can be condensed down to this: kill them to keep them.

Fuck you selfish, slavery-loving scumbags. You don't get to break up MY country just because you are afraid to live without the slave labor of other human beings. Get your lazy ass out there and pick your own fucking cotton. If you think it's a better idea to destroy the unity of MY country, you will be destroyed. You best learn humility, boy, or you will be taught again.

EVERY so-called 'confederate' state had organized, armed regiments of CITIZENS of those states actively fighting against the traitorous scumbag 'confederates.' EVERY one.

Love you too even though you’re dumb as a box of rocks.

You seem to consider yourself quite intelligent. Upon what do you base this delusion?

Thank you. I am.

unfortunately, you aren’t.

You have just proven that you are not. Care to try again?

 

[gipper]

Y

That’s the thing you fail to comprehend. Lincoln did invade, conquer, and murder.

Your contempt for the United States aside, the President of the United States deployed United States troops within the United States when a special-interest faction rejected the United States Constitution and attempted to deprive Americans in several of the United States of their United States citizenship.

The United States won, the was United States preserved, and the citizens threatened with loss of United States citizenship protected.

Oh brother. My contempt has nothing to do with the historical facts. You’re happy Lincoln started a war against the south, failing to understand the horrific consequences. Think bigger.

Lincoln post dates the Perpetual Union and the sedition that trying to destroy it represents. It was the attempt of states to fracture the Union that provoked violence. As a devout southerner, Andrew Jackson, declared, well before Lincoln, "The Union! It must be preserved!" The addiction to slavery led the south to commit a gross error and the country paid a huge price for it.

Again you’re not thinking. If a portion of the Union no longer wants to be in the Union, why kill them?

You are a statist authoritarian, but don’t know it.

Your philosophy and that of the Lincoln Cult can be condensed down to this: kill them to keep them.

Fuck you selfish, slavery-loving scumbags. You don't get to break up MY country just because you are afraid to live without the slave labor of other human beings. Get your lazy ass out there and pick your own fucking cotton. If you think it's a better idea to destroy the unity of MY country, you will be destroyed. You best learn humility, boy, or you will be taught again.

EVERY so-called 'confederate' state had organized, armed regiments of CITIZENS of those states actively fighting against the traitorous scumbag 'confederates.' EVERY one.

Love you too even though you’re dumb as a box of rocks.

You seem to consider yourself quite intelligent. Upon what do you base this delusion?

Thank you. I am.

unfortunately, you aren’t.

You have just proven that you are not. Care to try again?

Yes I’m very intelligent, thank you again.

My advice to you is read history from multiple sources. If you have difficulty reading, you should enroll in remedial reading courses. While there, you might as well get your GED.

 

[schmidlap]

\Yes I’m very intelligent, thank you again.

My advice to you is read history from multiple sources. If you have difficulty reading, you should enroll in remedial reading courses. While there, you might as well get your GED.

You need not waste your time perusing a plethora of bogus propaganda sources. Whilst, having an eclectic, discriminating information base is commendable, the gist of a matter is often encapsulated in a definitive statement by an acknowledged, authoritative source - especially one who does not evidence an ideological bias that might influence his conviction:

“If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that
there is no right to secede.
(Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, ‘one Nation, indivisible.’)”
Conservative Justice Antonin Scalia

 

[Unkotare]

\Yes I’m very intelligent, thank you again.

My advice to you is read history from multiple sources. If you have difficulty reading, you should enroll in remedial reading courses. While there, you might as well get your GED.

You need not waste your time perusing a plethora of bogus propaganda sources. Whilst, having an eclectic, discriminating information base is commendable, the gist of a matter is often encapsulated in a definitive statement by an acknowledged, authoritative source - especially one who does not evidence an ideological bias that might influence his conviction:

“If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that
there is no right to secede.
(Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, ‘one Nation, indivisible.’)”
Conservative Justice Antonin Scalia
View attachment 464071​

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[there4eyeM]

As has been stated, one is free to leave the Union if one wishes. States are not.

 

[Siberian]

thus topic should be renamed into "The 1st Civil war", since the US is gradually slipping into the 2nd Civil war.
Some observers think the US is alreday in state of "warm" civil war, which will gradually develop into a hot one.. ..

 

[there4eyeM]

thus topic should be renamed into "The 1st Civil war", since the US is gradually slipping into the 2nd Civil war.
Some observers think the US is alreday in state of "warm" civil war, which will gradually develop into a hot one.. ..

That is the dream of America's enemies (foreign and domestic). It is a dream that will not come true.

 

[Siberian]

thus topic should be renamed into "The 1st Civil war", since the US is gradually slipping into the 2nd Civil war.
Some observers think the US is alreday in state of "warm" civil war, which will gradually develop into a hot one.. ..

That is the dream of America's enemies (foreign and domestic). It is a dream that will not come true.

why won't it come true? though, you are correct, Civil war is going on already.

The nation is split on racial and social lines.
Split along these lines gets deeper and bigger, since :

- Whites are gradually decrease in numbers, by 2045 they will be minority in the US, they are already minority in several states and will becone minority in the South-Western belt of states From Califirnia to Taxes (Latinos are already 52% in New Mexico).
And what is more important - Whites increasinly start voting as Whites, not just according to their political preferences.

Latin American citizens and immigrants are increasingly Socialist - in states with big Latin share (South-West) a Socialist Bernie Sanders defeated moderate liberal Biden.

So, aside of perspectives of just civil war there are very good perspectives of separatism and disintegration of the US in 10 years approximately, when 2 rows of states bordering Mexico become predominantly Spanish speaking and Latino.

plus, there is a campaign of mass repressions against half of America which lost elections - "domestic terrorists" are being silenced, thrown out of job for their views, cancel culture, mass persecution, mass censorship and ban of tens of thousands of Trumpists by social nets - this is already warm civil war.

People already started dying in this war, just the process is slightly retarded by demoralization of Republicans.

I presume after Republicans realize that due to demographic changes they have lost any chances forever to ever control any branch of power on the federal level - they will revolt.

Republicans will never have their president. They will never get any chamber of Congress.

Just because Whites are becoming a minority fast.

 

[there4eyeM]

thus topic should be renamed into "The 1st Civil war", since the US is gradually slipping into the 2nd Civil war.
Some observers think the US is alreday in state of "warm" civil war, which will gradually develop into a hot one.. ..

That is the dream of America's enemies (foreign and domestic). It is a dream that will not come true.

why won't it come true? though, you are correct, Civil war is going on already.

The nation is split on racial and social lines.
Split along these lines gets deeper and bigger, since :

- Whites are gradually decrease in numbers, by 2045 they will be minority in the US, they are already minority in several states and will becone minority in the South-Western belt of states From Califirnia to Taxes (Latinos are already 52% in New Mexico).
And what is more important - Whites increasinly start voting as Whites, not just according to their political preferences.

Latin American citizens and immigrants are increasingly Socialist - in states with big Latin share (South-West) a Socialist Bernie Sanders defeated moderate liberal Biden.

So, aside of perspectives of just civil war there are very good perspectives of separatism and disintegration of the US in 10 years approximately, when 2 rows of states bordering Mexico become predominantly Spanish speaking and Latino.

plus, there is a campaign of mass repressions against half of America which lost elections - "domestic terrorists" are being silenced, thrown out of job for their views, cancel culture, mass persecution, mass censorship and ban of tens of thousands of Trumpists by social nets - this is already warm civil war.

People already started dying in this war, just the process is slightly retarded by demoralization of Republicans.

I presume after Republicans realize that due to demographic changes they have lost any chances forever to ever control any branch of power on the federal level - they will revolt.

Republicans will never have their president. They will never get any chamber of Congress.

Just because Whites are becoming a minority fast.

It isn't that I am correct, it is that you are incorrect.

 

[Unkotare]

...Civil war is going on already.
...

No, it's not.

 

[kaz]

Democrats are not "most Americans." They are Nazis though

Your hyper-partisan alienation from the United States is unfortunate.

Your nazis are Trump goons, of course, on record as having endorsed their "God Emperor" twice, still supporting the Loser.

Donald Trump – Daily Stormer

dailystormer.su

Bull shit. Democrats are very much going to destroying [sic] people's lives and violence [sic] for standing up to them. Being a kid or an old man don't [sic] even protect you if you're wearing a red hat. Now you're just flagrantly stealing elections. You are Nazis, no doubt about it

Learn English or get the fuck out of my country, stupid.

Figures, now you're looking for typos on an internet message board. What a loser. Could you be any more pathetic

 

[kaz]

... You aren't smart enough and your ideas are bad and don't work. .....

Learn English or get the fuck out of my country, stupid.

The Internet Spell and grammar police! You're worse at that then you are at teaching government history

 

[Siberian]

thus topic should be renamed into "The 1st Civil war", since the US is gradually slipping into the 2nd Civil war.
Some observers think the US is alreday in state of "warm" civil war, which will gradually develop into a hot one.. ..

That is the dream of America's enemies (foreign and domestic). It is a dream that will not come true.

why won't it come true? though, you are correct, Civil war is going on already.

The nation is split on racial and social lines.
Split along these lines gets deeper and bigger, since :

- Whites are gradually decrease in numbers, by 2045 they will be minority in the US, they are already minority in several states and will becone minority in the South-Western belt of states From Califirnia to Taxes (Latinos are already 52% in New Mexico).
And what is more important - Whites increasinly start voting as Whites, not just according to their political preferences.

Latin American citizens and immigrants are increasingly Socialist - in states with big Latin share (South-West) a Socialist Bernie Sanders defeated moderate liberal Biden.

So, aside of perspectives of just civil war there are very good perspectives of separatism and disintegration of the US in 10 years approximately, when 2 rows of states bordering Mexico become predominantly Spanish speaking and Latino.

plus, there is a campaign of mass repressions against half of America which lost elections - "domestic terrorists" are being silenced, thrown out of job for their views, cancel culture, mass persecution, mass censorship and ban of tens of thousands of Trumpists by social nets - this is already warm civil war.

People already started dying in this war, just the process is slightly retarded by demoralization of Republicans.

I presume after Republicans realize that due to demographic changes they have lost any chances forever to ever control any branch of power on the federal level - they will revolt.

Republicans will never have their president. They will never get any chamber of Congress.

Just because Whites are becoming a minority fast.

It isn't that I am correct, it is that you are incorrect.

prove it

 

[gtopa1]

The Civil War was all about slavery, OK? It wasn't the War of Northern Aggression or the War Between the States. That's bullshit. It was a Civil War, and it was about slavery. Denying that is like denying that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews in concentration camps... oh, wait, you deny that, too?

Only it wasn't.
If Lincoln had stated that he was going to ban slavery and emancipate the slaves and the South refused. Then you could say it was fought over slavery but that never happened. Lincoln had no intention of banning slavery. It was just that as Sherman had pushed deep into Georgia it was a smart military tactic to cause maximum disruption.

And I'm as left-wing as you can get.

There would never have been a Civil War if the south had not had slavery.

I'm sure a lot of things wouldn't have happened "IF"......

....but it did.

Greg