“Can anyone point to anything in the BIBLE, (old Testment or NEW) that supports the NOTION of purgatory? I can't.”
I gave you four passages to begin with. Did you offer any scholarly or solid explanations refuting mine and the Church’s contention that these idea take place in the hereafter? Were you able to tell me with confidence what Paul’s words refer to, if not purgatory? ("If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.")
Is Fatima of the devil? Is it not supernatural? Or is it the Virgin Mother which is the only serious explanation given all of the facts? She speaks of purgatory to the children. She also shows them a vivid vision of hell from which they scream out horribly. So do you doubt Fatima? Why? Is it because it’s too Catholic? But if you do not doubt Fatima then explain to me how God would have the children lie? Tell truth about Mary appearing, tell the truth about Mary showing them hell, but when she tells them of purgatory she is lieing? That is not the nature of God.
As to most of the rest of you --- I see you have opted to try to prove your non-Catholic theology on salvation, et al. instead of addressing the verses presented on purgatory. Well I can defend Catholic theology, too, on many subjects including salvation that contradict your packaged offering. But I am discussing purgatory, not “we are saved by faith alone and pay no further attention to the man behind that curtain."
More verses in Scripture we contend speaks of purgatory.
Matthew 18:32-35
Then summoning him, his lord said to him, “You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?” And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.
[“My heavenly Father will also do the same to you.” Do what?... hand you over to the torturers until you should repay all that was owed him. Is this not clear? This is purgatory. You will be tortured, but you will be released after you have made amends! Praise God for he is both just and merciful.]
James 2:24
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
[Yes, we most certainly are judged by our works, and maybe much more to the point, by our level of indifference towards others. If we do not show obedience and sacrifice then we are not fully justified. Does that mean hell... or maybe some purification necessary for many believers?]
1 John 5:16-17
“Anyone who sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, should petition God, and thus life will be given to the sinner. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as a deadly sin; I do not say that one should pray about that. True all wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.”
[Some sin condemns one to hell, other sins are spoken of as not deadly, meaning they have some retribution carried with it, but not hell. If this person dies with these unconfessed sins still on their souls does it sound likely they will not still need to be accounted for? Does not the Lord say “nothing defiled shall enter the kingdom?” It all speaks of a purification still required.]
Matthew 16:27
“The Son of Man will come with his Father’s glory accompanied by his angels. When he does, he will repay each man according to his conduct.”
[Seems pretty clear that our conduct (i.e. obedience, works) are as or more important than our confession of faith in determining our destiny. And if we be a believer, but our conduct is very bad, yet not fatal, then this highly implies a penance before our being able to enter the kingdom. Being repaid according to his conduct does not suggest a “lesser crown of glory” awarded in heaven, but more so some kind of penance for misconduct.]
Matthew 21:31
Jesus *said to them, “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you.
[Jesus talking to the Pharisees says that the harlots and tax collectors will be allowed into heaven before you. You is other believers listening to his words I presume. The point here is that some will be allowed into heaven before some others who think they deserve heaven too. Before is a glorious word because it implies eventually you will get into heaven too, but it is apparent something must take place before you are allowed in.]
Hebrews 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
[In other words, one must be made holy (read: pure) before they can see the Lord (read: enter the kingdom).]
Jeremiah 17:9-10
More tortuous than all else is the human heart, beyond remedy; who can understand it? I, the Lord, alone probe the mind and search the heart, to reward everyone according to his ways, according to the merit of his deeds.
[Sounds to me as though there are all kinds of levels of judgment according to the merits of his deeds. This much more suggests some purification taking place and not just hell for everyone who did not have a charitable enough heart.]
Ezekiel 33: 7-9
“Now as for you, son of man, I have appointed you a watchman for the house of Israel; so you will hear a message from My mouth and give them warning from Me. When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from your hand.
[The wicked man appears to have suffered eternal death, but also the one (the believer) who did not warn the wicked man of his sins, that one God will also require some recompense for our lack of duty. Does it sound as though God is saying the believer shall “die in his iniquity?” No, but it does sound as though there is some retribution required for the sin on our part.]
Zechariah 13: 8-9
“It will come about in all the land,” declares the Lord, “that two parts in it will be cut off and perish; but the third will be left in it. And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested.”
[This could be referring to the end times only, but the refining the saved through fire could also mean purgatory as well. It can easily explain the plights of both.]
Mark 10:17-23
As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. "You know the commandments, Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.’ ” And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up."Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property. And Jesus, looking around, *said to His disciples, "How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!"
[Saved by “faith alone?” Not likely. And can it be any clearer? Jesus is demanding acts of obedience and charity in order to be worthy for the kingdom of heaven. And then he goes on to explain how difficult it is for a very wealthy man to enter heaven. Why? Not because he is incapable of an act of faith and accepting Jesus as his Savior. But because more is required. He must sacrifice much of his great favor in service to his fellow man. If he does not, he has been too selfish or greedy and he will have to pay some price. Jesus said he cannot enter in that state, he did not say the rich man is condemned to hell.]
John 20:20-23
And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord. He said therefore to them again: “Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.” When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: “Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”
[Jesus is bestowing special graces or authority on those disciples “so ordained.” Some sins are forgiven and others are retained. What becomes of a believer whose sins are retained and dies in that state? Hell? Unreasonable. God is merciful. A cleansing or purification is more the meaning here.]
Colossians 1:24
Even now I find my joy in the suffering I endure for you. In my own flesh I fill up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ for the sake of his body, the church.
[This passage has had various interpretations, but it at least suggests something required by man besides believing to do something God is asking of us. It also makes special reference to His church.]
To imperfections!
Isn't that why Jesus had to die? Because ALL are sinners? How can God give some a pass based on their works when he insists on the blood of his son to pay the debt of others? Now THAT would be an injustice. Wouldn't that render the gift of eternal life 'cheap'?
"Judged" = "going to hell", doesn't it?
