The American Culture War was won by the Left

[AFrench2]

no it's not.

If one thinks they cannot cope with a child for whatever reason, then forego sex for that time period.

Nah, they can do whatever they want and you have no say in the matter.

 

[Meriweather]

But when the call is made to actually end the life and sign the medical forms, it is the prioritization of one life over another.

Yes, I see your point. But if someone knows that if they happen to become pregnant, then abortion is the option they choose, then it is sex over life.

 

[Meriweather]

Nah, they can do whatever they want and you have no say in the matter.

Moving the goal posts. I am not arguing I have a say in the matter. I am pointing out hard facts. Abortion is placing sex over life. I am not telling people what they should do; I am pointing out what they are choosing to do.

 

[ding]

But when the call is made to actually end the life and sign the medical forms, it is the prioritization of one life over another.

Yes, I see your point. But if someone knows that if they happen to become pregnant, then abortion is the option they choose, then it is sex over life.

True. I'm sure some - maybe even many - see abortion as their fail safe contraception. But abortion is not contraception. Margaret Sanger understood this distinction which is why she would not allow abortions in her clinics. Did you know that?

 

[ding]

no it's not.

If one thinks they cannot cope with a child for whatever reason, then forego sex for that time period.

Nah, they can do whatever they want and you have no say in the matter.

You can say the exact same thing about anything. I could choose to shoot you in the leg and if you were unable to stop me from doing so, you would have no say in the matter, right?

So the question isn't whether anyone has any say, the question is and always will be was it the right thing to do. People can choose the wrong thing. But it would be nice if they didn't lie to themselves that they were doing the right thing. That you will never convince me of.

 

[ClaireH]

Actually, if you asked a woman to pick one of the following to lose.

1) Her access to contraception
2) Her ability to get fair and equal pay for work
3) Not having to maybe compete against a Tranny

Um... she's going to pick #3 each time. Those other things are more important to her.

No. In regards to the first, Thomas Sowell comes to mind: The idea that taxpayers owe it to you to pay for what you want suggests that much of today's education fails to instill reality, and instead panders to a self-centered sense of entitlement to what other people have earned. The other part is that males can/should/do deal with contraception.

2. When was the last time you looked at pay scales for men and women? Both daughters are paid the same as their male counterparts and have the same opportunities for advancement. That is now true of most professions.

3. As for the Transgendered: The rule should be: They are allowed to participate in women's sports, but are not allowed to compete. (In other words, practices and team scrimmages only.)

By the way, both my daughters choose 3. Their athletic experiences in high school do not hold a to their current experiences, but as a high school girl, it meant the world to them. Memories...

Indeed Meriweather and well said. Your perception about how everything is relative regarding importance to one’s life and age is spot-on. Winning state and regional track meets is a goal that many athletic girls strive to accomplish. The idea that a biological male teen is a fair match for any female in strength and endurance is scientifically inaccurate as most know.

Joe B- your post does ring loudly the tone of “because you think it’s not so means it’s not so”. Everything in life is relative to age, experience, one’s accomplishments and failures, and our past successes (even track races fyi) can lead to great outcomes and do for many athletes in sports, including females.

 

[Rocko]

- Gay Marriage is legal
- Interracial marriage is accepted
- Marijuana is legal in more than 25 states
- Rappers and musicians have their pants down in music videos
- Abortion still legal

The culture war is ongoing and much broader than your OP indicates. I do feel the left is winning the culture war however. Academia, the media, and Hollywood are liberal institutions that play a big part of that.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

- Gay Marriage is legal
- Interracial marriage is accepted
- Marijuana is legal in more than 25 states
- Rappers and musicians have their pants down in music videos
- Abortion still legal

Try to buy a gun and state that you use marijuana regularly
OH and try to maintain steady employment smoking that pot
most business will not hire you if you wear your pants prison bitch style nor will they allow you to make a purchase
You lose

 

[Oldestyle]

- Gay Marriage is legal
- Interracial marriage is accepted
- Marijuana is legal in more than 25 states
- Rappers and musicians have their pants down in music videos
- Abortion still legal

That's the sum total of the Left's accomplishments in the "Culture War"? Which one of those things is making this a better country to live in for the average American?

The freedom to marry whom we choose is a good thing.

But that's a battle in the culture war that the right won. Democrats and the KKK were the ones who hanged blacks for associating with whites.

I agree with that first point whole heartedly.
My point was that the "culture" that the left is giving us isn't really something that most Americans want anything to do with! Liberals tend to cluster together on the coasts and in big cities...bouncing their beliefs and views off of each other and reinforcing in their own minds that THEY know what's best for America! For people in the "fly over States" what Hollywood, the Main Stream Media and politicians from San Francisco and New York think is the New Normal is horrifying. They don't have those same beliefs and they're scared to death that the left is going to corrupt their kids into believing in things they don't.

 

[AFrench2]

- Gay Marriage is legal
- Interracial marriage is accepted
- Marijuana is legal in more than 25 states
- Rappers and musicians have their pants down in music videos
- Abortion still legal

The culture war is ongoing and much broader than your OP indicates. I do feel the left is winning the culture war however. Academia, the media, and Hollywood are liberal institutions that play a big part of that.

It is more broad than I could illustrate in a couple of sentences, that is true. But you know I am right. 30 years of MTV music videos have turned our Millenium generation into a bunch of weirdos and leftists.

 

[Meriweather]

True. I'm sure some - maybe even many - see abortion as their fail safe contraception. But abortion is not contraception. Margaret Sanger understood this distinction which is why she would not allow abortions in her clinics. Did you know that?

Yes. This recalls Pope Paul VI. The reason he felt called to say no to artificial birth control is because the answer to, "What is the solution for when birth control fails and a child is not wanted?" led him to one answer: The death of the child. The Church values life as God's greatest gift. What happens when life is not seen as the gift to be valued most: Babies then seniors then handicaps then not thinking correctly and the world finds itself back to the thinking that led to the atrocities of World War II.

Whether we are looking at exploration or social norms, what should always be considered is, What is the next step? keeping in mind that we can just as easily take another step downward as opposed to the ideal step up.

 

[Desperado]

So when is the left going to attack "Mr Coffee" for a name change?

 

[BreezeWood]

- Gay Marriage is legal
- Interracial marriage is accepted
- Marijuana is legal in more than 25 states
- Rappers and musicians have their pants down in music videos
- Abortion still legal

That's the sum total of the Left's accomplishments in the "Culture War"? Which one of those things is making this a better country to live in for the average American?

The freedom to marry whom we choose is a good thing.

But that's a battle in the culture war that the right won. Democrats and the KKK were the ones who hanged blacks for associating with whites.

.

But that's a battle in the culture war that the right won. Democrats and the KKK were the ones who hanged blacks for associating with whites.

.
are you a member ...
.

.
only christian crucifiers were given membership - and those that deny the truth. norwegen.

 

[BreezeWood]

no it's not.

If one thinks they cannot cope with a child for whatever reason, then forego sex for that time period.

Nah, they can do whatever they want and you have no say in the matter.

You can say the exact same thing about anything. I could choose to shoot you in the leg and if you were unable to stop me from doing so, you would have no say in the matter, right?

So the question isn't whether anyone has any say, the question is and always will be was it the right thing to do. People can choose the wrong thing. But it would be nice if they didn't lie to themselves that they were doing the right thing. That you will never convince me of.

.

But it would be nice if they didn't lie to themselves that they were doing the right thing. That you will never convince me of.

.
what about your own decision -

a vasectomy is no less a choice than an abortion, the one you made.

 

[JoeB131]

Abortion is prioritizing our sex life over the creation of new life.

So what else is new? People have been performing abortions since ancient times.

WHEN birthing was mostly handled by midwives - other women - abortions were performed regularly as contraception.

It was only when medicine became a profession did opposition to abortion become a thing when men were in charge.

You see, this is what you Religious Nuts get wrong about abortion. Before Roe v. Wade, Abortion laws were like the prostitution laws, or buying liquor during Prohibition. They were on the books, everyone ignored them. Women were never arrested for having abortions and providers were only arrested if they screwed up and injured a woman. No one was ever charged with "murder" for performing an abortion. Fetuses aren't people, that would be daft.

So the Supreme Court probably didn't think they were doing anything all that controversial when they overturned these laws with Roe v. Wade. In fact, Five of the seven justices who voted for it were Republicans.

The Evangelicals didn't really care before Roe. to them, Abortion was a "Catholic" thing. And Catholics didn't care that much about it, it was a sin the way eating meat during Lent was a sin.

But the Right wing needed a bullshit issue to get dumb people to vote for the interests of the rich. That's why abortion is an issue in this country.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe B- your post does ring loudly the tone of “because you think it’s not so means it’s not so”. Everything in life is relative to age, experience, one’s accomplishments and failures, and our past successes (even track races fyi) can lead to great outcomes and do for many athletes in sports, including females.

Okay, here's the reality.

The only reason why anyone cares about girls' athletics is because the government mandates scholarships be given out for them under Title IX.

Take away those big bags of government money, and you'd be amazed how little anyone would care at that point.

 

[JoeB131]

I missed this bit of stupidity the first go around.

No. In regards to the first, Thomas Sowell comes to mind: The idea that taxpayers owe it to you to pay for what you want suggests that much of today's education fails to instill reality, and instead panders to a self-centered sense of entitlement to what other people have earned. The other part is that males can/should/do deal with contraception.

Frankly, I'm not interest in what some pathetic sellout has to say.

I'm for government contraception for the same reason I'm for government roads. It's just good policy. When the right wing tries to limit access to contraception because their magic friend in the sky told them to, that's dumb policy.

2. When was the last time you looked at pay scales for men and women? Both daughters are paid the same as their male counterparts and have the same opportunities for advancement. That is now true of most professions.

Not really.

Gender pay gap in U.S. hasn’t changed much in two decades

In 2022, women earned an average of 82% of what men earned, according to a new analysis of median hourly earnings of full- and part-time workers.

www.pewresearch.org

3. As for the Transgendered: The rule should be: They are allowed to participate in women's sports, but are not allowed to compete. (In other words, practices and team scrimmages only.)

Why? Here's the thing. Nobody really cares about women's athletics other than how much it is mandated by Title IX.

When I went to UIC, about half the student fees we had to pay went to supporting UIC's athletics program. Of course, UIC didn't have a good program for the NCAA sports people make money off of. They couldn't GIVE away tickets to the basketball games. But the school had to have the full set of programs and scholarships because the government mandated it. And if that meant that the people who were just there to learn had to pay for it, so be it.

By the way, both my daughters choose 3. Their athletic experiences in high school do not hold a to their current experiences, but as a high school girl, it meant the world to them. Memories...

I don't talk about family, but frankly, I doubt any sane woman would want to live in the Live Action version of "A Handmaid's Tale" the Religious Right is trying to establish in this country.

Do you give this advice to transgenders who wish to participate in girl sports? Or, is it just for the girls?

I'd give it to everyone... unless you really think you are going to get a scholarship, this is not the most important thing in your life.

Now, I did have a niece who got her college paid for because of a Volleyball scholarship... so there's that.

But how about we just let anyone who is a good student and has the acedemic skills go?

College Athletics has become this sort of perverted thing, where people who probably aren't cut out for college focus on athletics instead of academics, and wash out even if they get a scholarship. MEANWHILE, in the money sports - Football and Basketball - less than 2% of them go pro.

 

[ClaireH]

Joe B- your post does ring loudly the tone of “because you think it’s not so means it’s not so”. Everything in life is relative to age, experience, one’s accomplishments and failures, and our past successes (even track races fyi) can lead to great outcomes and do for many athletes in sports, including females.

Okay, here's the reality.



Take away those big bags of government money, and you'd be amazed how little anyone would care at that point.

Well, I cannot expect to alter those finely tuned electronic impulses happening in your head Joe, but I can tell you that you just confirmed what I originally said...unless you don't see it, hear it, or believe it...it's not a thing in your mind. I was once called out for that very thing myself, and I accepted the feedback as a good reality check for myself.

Here is my "evidence" that you kindly just put forth: "The only reason why anyone cares about girls' athletics is because the government mandates scholarships be given out for them under Title IX." I can tell you from personal experience that is an extremely fast shudder speed on that cam you're using...so fast it's missed almost the whole thing and just shows a miniscule bit of the true picture.

As a former track "star"..yes...some people still relive their early days of track meets! LOL Whoever posted that made me laugh so hard..the best jokes are always about me...anyway...as a coach of a girls track team (high school), I can say that you are not in the loop at all. As a parent with an atheletic kid, I've seen the same thing but in different sports -softball and swimming. Anyone who implies that high school sports isn't a big deal didn't play sports in high school or found no value to sports in schools.

My reality is that girls sports are a big deal for many people, from small to medium to large school systems.

It doesn't matter that we're talking about a very small likelihood of a girl competing against a boy, it will happen within many a school system with this new legislation. If only one girl is passed over it's one too many who deserves a scholarship. My female cousin earned a basketball scholarship, my brother earned a baseball scholarship, so due to my own experience with sports I find huge value in student participation and in the hard earned successes based upon perseverence and dedication.

Genetic advantages need to be left to the male birds who use color and the like to attract a mate.

 

[JoeB131]

Here is my "evidence" that you kindly just put forth:

Don't care. TL;DR

My reality is that girls sports are a big deal for many people, from small to medium to large school systems.

So what?

It doesn't matter that we're talking about a very small likelihood of a girl competing against a boy, it will happen within many a school system with this new legislation. If only one girl is passed over it's one too many who deserves a scholarship. My female cousin earned a basketball scholarship, my brother earned a baseball scholarship, so due to my own experience with sports I find huge value in student participation and in the hard earned successes based upon perseverence and dedication.

Okay, here's the problem with THIS position. There's not going to be a whole bunch of Cis-Gender boys claiming to be girls rushing in to do girls' athletics. The level of mockery they'd get from their peers would be too great. You claim to be a coach, but did you completely forget what kids are actually like?

No one "deserves" a scholarship for athletics. That's not what the Universities are there for. The universities are there to prepare people for the workplace by giving them the skills they'll need. I personally resented the fact that I had to pay higher fees at UIC back in the 1980's to pay for a bunch of athletic programs no one gave a shit about. These girls want a scholarship, they should do what I did.. Join the Army.

Final point. This transphobia is just another case of the rich making up a fake panic about something to get stupid white people to vote against their own economic interests, with the religious right being a bunch of useful idiots. I'm an old man, I saw this shit with racism in the 70's and homophobia in the 90's. I refuse to play along.

 

[ClaireH]

Your "who cares" comment and saying I'm "claiming to be a coach" remark are interesting. For the record, I'm not paid to coach but stepped up to fill the role. Surely, if I were going to lie about a non-paid job I would come up with something a lot more impressive than girls track coach lol As a middle school teacher and high school coach, I'm likely around a lot more kids than most on a weekday basis. I've taught in 3 school systems and am familiar with small and large sized classrooms. No, I cannot say I've forgotten how kids act.

So here we get to the causal factor regarding your dislike of kids earning sports scholarships: "I personally resented the fact that I had to pay higher fees at UIC back in the 1980's to pay for a bunch of athletic programs no one gave a shit about." Many colleges have huge atheletic programs drawing top students who happen to excel in academics and sports. I can only guess your college didn't draw in these type of kids and as you said nobody cared about sports. That is not the norm within US state colleges and competition and giving it 100% is something that's good prep for most any career. I'll also assume you were never sports-oriented, and that enforces your stance about not liking others going to college on a scholarship that they might not have been able to afford and would not have done.

We will not agree about kids and scholarships. There are kids who work exceptionally hard in class and exceptionally hard in the extra-curriculars. If you ask me which kid I would hire between one who is as smart as a whip and a person who isn't quite as sharp but is goal-oriented, dedicated, and never gives up, I'll take that second person any day of the week. I know this as a teacher, coach, and and as a parent.

Sports scholarships are earned not given away, and it takes effort to apply and go through the process. Students who put in the time and effort deserve a "pay-off" imo compared to a student who does the minimum to just get by. It doesn't always happen, but to not reward those kids who work extra hard is a true loss and the wrong message. I am not a fan of participation awards unless we're talking early grade school years.

If you're looking for somebody to become defensive from your posturing, you have the wrong poster btw. It takes a thick skin to be an effective teacher these days, plus life is just too darn short to stress the trivial things.