Tell me what I'm missing here H1N12009 Vs Corona2019

[zaangalewa]

Numbers give some people the feeling they understand what's happening. Take a look at this values as if it would be an display board in a bad calculating exchange, where 50% of the values say nothing and the others are not really right. What you can see is very simple: The Corona virus grows, the Corona virus wins. Take care it will lose. Keep distance - and help each other.


Many small places do many small things that can alter the face of the world.

 

[Pogo]

I'm in NO WAY suggesting people should treat this differently than what we're told. It's too early.

For comparison, currently Corona19 has a mortality rate of 4.61% world wide, however, the mortality rate in the USA is 1.63%. So much for our healthcare sucks. I only checked Switzerland, which is a personal PROG-favorite nationalized medicine. They come in a 1.81%. Bet your ass most nationalized healthcare systems are higher than the USA, same with the rate of people affected - but that's another story.

OK two things on this straw-filled premise.

Number one, on the numbers, we have 4,269 cases which had an outcome, either Recovered or Died. Of those, 1731 were deaths. I'm prohibited from posting what that percentage is but I guarantee you it's nowhere near 1.81. Number two, as far as nationalized health systems, check out Germany, the first country to do it, in the 19th century.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop	1st case
World	622,490	+26,178	28,808	+1,467	137,373	456,309	24,016	79.9	3.7	Jan 10
USA	105,778	+1,652	1,731	+35	2,538	101,509	2,494	320	5	Jan 20
Italy	86,498		9,134		10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151	Jan 29
China	81,394	+54	3,295	+3	74,971	3,128	886	57	2	Jan 10
Spain	72,248	+6,529	5,812	+674	12,285	54,151	4,165	1,545	124	Jan 30
Germany	53,340	+2,469	399	+48	6,658	46,283	1,581	637	5	Jan 26

As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model --- not because of who has what health care system while you spin your Ronald Reagan booga-booga record from 1962, but simply because they took a lax attitude when they were first hit by it.

So as far as "tell you what you're missing", there are a couple of Biglys.

Don't know what you're looking at. Here's the current data sorted by most cases per million, up to the USA. I deleted rows for smaller territories. What in this data would tell me "As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model"?????

If you have Excel I can teach you how to use it

Territory	….	Cases	….	Deaths	….	Recovered	….	Number of cases per 1 million population	….	Mortality Rate	….	Recovery Rate
Switzerland	….	13,377	….	242	….	1,530	….	1,546	….	1.81%	….	11.44%
Spain	….	72,248	….	5,812	….	12,285	….	1,545	….	8.04%	….	17.00%
Italy	….	86,498	….	9,134	….	10,950	….	1,431	….	10.56%	….	12.66%
Austria	….	8,030	….	68	….	225	….	892	….	0.85%	….	2.80%
Belgium	….	9,134	….	353	….	1,063	….	788	….	3.86%	….	11.64%
Norway	….	3,973	….	20	….	7	….	733	….	0.50%	….	0.18%
Germany	….	53,340	….	399	….	6,658	….	637	….	0.75%	….	12.48%
Netherlands	….	9,762	….	639	….	3	….	570	….	6.55%	….	0.03%
Portugal	….	5,170	….	100	….	43	….	507	….	1.93%	….	0.83%
France	….	32,964	….	1,995	….	5,700	….	505	….	6.05%	….	17.29%
Estonia	….	645	….	1	….	20	….	486	….	0.16%	….	3.10%
Ireland	….	2,121	….	22	….	5	….	430	….	1.04%	….	0.24%
Iran	….	35,408	….	2,517	….	11,679	….	422	….	7.11%	….	32.98%
Israel	….	3,460	….	12	….	89	….	400	….	0.35%	….	2.57%
Denmark	….	2,201	….	65	….	1	….	380	….	2.95%	….	0.05%
USA	….	106,258	….	1,751	….	2,538	….	321	….	1.65%	….	2.39%

Pogo uses his numbers to paint a worse possible scenario. Kinda like, if you haven't recovered, you're going to die scenario.

Never said or implied that, don't put words in my mouth.
See #19 three posts up.

 

[Pogo]

I'm in NO WAY suggesting people should treat this differently than what we're told. It's too early.

For comparison, currently Corona19 has a mortality rate of 4.61% world wide, however, the mortality rate in the USA is 1.63%. So much for our healthcare sucks. I only checked Switzerland, which is a personal PROG-favorite nationalized medicine. They come in a 1.81%. Bet your ass most nationalized healthcare systems are higher than the USA, same with the rate of people affected - but that's another story.

OK two things on this straw-filled premise.

Number one, on the numbers, we have 4,269 cases which had an outcome, either Recovered or Died. Of those, 1731 were deaths. I'm prohibited from posting what that percentage is but I guarantee you it's nowhere near 1.81. Number two, as far as nationalized health systems, check out Germany, the first country to do it, in the 19th century.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop	1st case
World	622,490	+26,178	28,808	+1,467	137,373	456,309	24,016	79.9	3.7	Jan 10
USA	105,778	+1,652	1,731	+35	2,538	101,509	2,494	320	5	Jan 20
Italy	86,498		9,134		10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151	Jan 29
China	81,394	+54	3,295	+3	74,971	3,128	886	57	2	Jan 10
Spain	72,248	+6,529	5,812	+674	12,285	54,151	4,165	1,545	124	Jan 30
Germany	53,340	+2,469	399	+48	6,658	46,283	1,581	637	5	Jan 26

As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model --- not because of who has what health care system while you spin your Ronald Reagan booga-booga record from 1962, but simply because they took a lax attitude when they were first hit by it.

So as far as "tell you what you're missing", there are a couple of Biglys.

Don't know what you're looking at. Here's the current data sorted by most cases per million, up to the USA. I deleted rows for smaller territories. What in this data would tell me "As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model"?????

If you have Excel I can teach you how to use it

Territory	….	Cases	….	Deaths	….	Recovered	….	Number of cases per 1 million population	….	Mortality Rate	….	Recovery Rate
Switzerland	….	13,377	….	242	….	1,530	….	1,546	….	1.81%	….	11.44%
Spain	….	72,248	….	5,812	….	12,285	….	1,545	….	8.04%	….	17.00%
Italy	….	86,498	….	9,134	….	10,950	….	1,431	….	10.56%	….	12.66%
Austria	….	8,030	….	68	….	225	….	892	….	0.85%	….	2.80%
Belgium	….	9,134	….	353	….	1,063	….	788	….	3.86%	….	11.64%
Norway	….	3,973	….	20	….	7	….	733	….	0.50%	….	0.18%
Germany	….	53,340	….	399	….	6,658	….	637	….	0.75%	….	12.48%
Netherlands	….	9,762	….	639	….	3	….	570	….	6.55%	….	0.03%
Portugal	….	5,170	….	100	….	43	….	507	….	1.93%	….	0.83%
France	….	32,964	….	1,995	….	5,700	….	505	….	6.05%	….	17.29%
Estonia	….	645	….	1	….	20	….	486	….	0.16%	….	3.10%
Ireland	….	2,121	….	22	….	5	….	430	….	1.04%	….	0.24%
Iran	….	35,408	….	2,517	….	11,679	….	422	….	7.11%	….	32.98%
Israel	….	3,460	….	12	….	89	….	400	….	0.35%	….	2.57%
Denmark	….	2,201	….	65	….	1	….	380	….	2.95%	….	0.05%
USA	….	106,258	….	1,751	….	2,538	….	321	….	1.65%	….	2.39%

Pogo uses his numbers to paint a worse possible scenario. Kinda like, if you haven't recovered, you're going to die scenario.

They need to make things seem worse than they really are or else they become depressed.

I posted the chart, verbatim without a value judgment. What you make of it is up to you.

 

[Pogo]

I'm in NO WAY suggesting people should treat this differently than what we're told. It's too early.

For comparison, currently Corona19 has a mortality rate of 4.61% world wide, however, the mortality rate in the USA is 1.63%. So much for our healthcare sucks. I only checked Switzerland, which is a personal PROG-favorite nationalized medicine. They come in a 1.81%. Bet your ass most nationalized healthcare systems are higher than the USA, same with the rate of people affected - but that's another story.

OK two things on this straw-filled premise.

Number one, on the numbers, we have 4,269 cases which had an outcome, either Recovered or Died. Of those, 1731 were deaths. I'm prohibited from posting what that percentage is but I guarantee you it's nowhere near 1.81. Number two, as far as nationalized health systems, check out Germany, the first country to do it, in the 19th century.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop	1st case
World	622,490	+26,178	28,808	+1,467	137,373	456,309	24,016	79.9	3.7	Jan 10
USA	105,778	+1,652	1,731	+35	2,538	101,509	2,494	320	5	Jan 20
Italy	86,498		9,134		10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151	Jan 29
China	81,394	+54	3,295	+3	74,971	3,128	886	57	2	Jan 10
Spain	72,248	+6,529	5,812	+674	12,285	54,151	4,165	1,545	124	Jan 30
Germany	53,340	+2,469	399	+48	6,658	46,283	1,581	637	5	Jan 26

As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model --- not because of who has what health care system while you spin your Ronald Reagan booga-booga record from 1962, but simply because they took a lax attitude when they were first hit by it.

So as far as "tell you what you're missing", there are a couple of Biglys.

Don't know what you're looking at. Here's the current data sorted by most cases per million, up to the USA. I deleted rows for smaller territories. What in this data would tell me "As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model"?????

If you have Excel I can teach you how to use it

Territory	….	Cases	….	Deaths	….	Recovered	….	Number of cases per 1 million population	….	Mortality Rate	….	Recovery Rate
Switzerland	….	13,377	….	242	….	1,530	….	1,546	….	1.81%	….	11.44%
Spain	….	72,248	….	5,812	….	12,285	….	1,545	….	8.04%	….	17.00%
Italy	….	86,498	….	9,134	….	10,950	….	1,431	….	10.56%	….	12.66%
Austria	….	8,030	….	68	….	225	….	892	….	0.85%	….	2.80%
Belgium	….	9,134	….	353	….	1,063	….	788	….	3.86%	….	11.64%
Norway	….	3,973	….	20	….	7	….	733	….	0.50%	….	0.18%
Germany	….	53,340	….	399	….	6,658	….	637	….	0.75%	….	12.48%
Netherlands	….	9,762	….	639	….	3	….	570	….	6.55%	….	0.03%
Portugal	….	5,170	….	100	….	43	….	507	….	1.93%	….	0.83%
France	….	32,964	….	1,995	….	5,700	….	505	….	6.05%	….	17.29%
Estonia	….	645	….	1	….	20	….	486	….	0.16%	….	3.10%
Ireland	….	2,121	….	22	….	5	….	430	….	1.04%	….	0.24%
Iran	….	35,408	….	2,517	….	11,679	….	422	….	7.11%	….	32.98%
Israel	….	3,460	….	12	….	89	….	400	….	0.35%	….	2.57%
Denmark	….	2,201	….	65	….	1	….	380	….	2.95%	….	0.05%
USA	….	106,258	….	1,751	….	2,538	….	321	….	1.65%	….	2.39%

Pogo uses his numbers to paint a worse possible scenario. Kinda like, if you haven't recovered, you're going to die scenario.

Similarly, id caution people from taking the number of deaths and dividing by the number of cases to come up with a mortality rate. That number would include current cases, which has people who may or many not survive.

It would be best if you divided deaths by recovered cases, but data is not very complete at this time.

SOMEBODY has his thinking cap on. Thank you. EXACTLY.

 

[Pogo]

I'm in NO WAY suggesting people should treat this differently than what we're told. It's too early.

For comparison, currently Corona19 has a mortality rate of 4.61% world wide, however, the mortality rate in the USA is 1.63%. So much for our healthcare sucks. I only checked Switzerland, which is a personal PROG-favorite nationalized medicine. They come in a 1.81%. Bet your ass most nationalized healthcare systems are higher than the USA, same with the rate of people affected - but that's another story.

OK two things on this straw-filled premise.

Number one, on the numbers, we have 4,269 cases which had an outcome, either Recovered or Died. Of those, 1731 were deaths. I'm prohibited from posting what that percentage is but I guarantee you it's nowhere near 1.81. Number two, as far as nationalized health systems, check out Germany, the first country to do it, in the 19th century.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop	1st case
World	622,490	+26,178	28,808	+1,467	137,373	456,309	24,016	79.9	3.7	Jan 10
USA	105,778	+1,652	1,731	+35	2,538	101,509	2,494	320	5	Jan 20
Italy	86,498		9,134		10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151	Jan 29
China	81,394	+54	3,295	+3	74,971	3,128	886	57	2	Jan 10
Spain	72,248	+6,529	5,812	+674	12,285	54,151	4,165	1,545	124	Jan 30
Germany	53,340	+2,469	399	+48	6,658	46,283	1,581	637	5	Jan 26

As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model --- not because of who has what health care system while you spin your Ronald Reagan booga-booga record from 1962, but simply because they took a lax attitude when they were first hit by it.

So as far as "tell you what you're missing", there are a couple of Biglys.

Don't know what you're looking at. Here's the current data sorted by most cases per million, up to the USA. I deleted rows for smaller territories. What in this data would tell me "As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model"?????

If you have Excel I can teach you how to use it

Territory	….	Cases	….	Deaths	….	Recovered	….	Number of cases per 1 million population	….	Mortality Rate	….	Recovery Rate
Switzerland	….	13,377	….	242	….	1,530	….	1,546	….	1.81%	….	11.44%
Spain	….	72,248	….	5,812	….	12,285	….	1,545	….	8.04%	….	17.00%
Italy	….	86,498	….	9,134	….	10,950	….	1,431	….	10.56%	….	12.66%
Austria	….	8,030	….	68	….	225	….	892	….	0.85%	….	2.80%
Belgium	….	9,134	….	353	….	1,063	….	788	….	3.86%	….	11.64%
Norway	….	3,973	….	20	….	7	….	733	….	0.50%	….	0.18%
Germany	….	53,340	….	399	….	6,658	….	637	….	0.75%	….	12.48%
Netherlands	….	9,762	….	639	….	3	….	570	….	6.55%	….	0.03%
Portugal	….	5,170	….	100	….	43	….	507	….	1.93%	….	0.83%
France	….	32,964	….	1,995	….	5,700	….	505	….	6.05%	….	17.29%
Estonia	….	645	….	1	….	20	….	486	….	0.16%	….	3.10%
Ireland	….	2,121	….	22	….	5	….	430	….	1.04%	….	0.24%
Iran	….	35,408	….	2,517	….	11,679	….	422	….	7.11%	….	32.98%
Israel	….	3,460	….	12	….	89	….	400	….	0.35%	….	2.57%
Denmark	….	2,201	….	65	….	1	….	380	….	2.95%	….	0.05%
USA	….	106,258	….	1,751	….	2,538	….	321	….	1.65%	….	2.39%

Pogo uses his numbers to paint a worse possible scenario. Kinda like, if you haven't recovered, you're going to die scenario.

Italy's model is AWESOME. You either die or recover, very quickly Them Italians don't fuck around.

Unfortunately that model also includes that they're still reporting many many new cases daily, so they haven't contained it yet. Again, same as us.

That is, except for notably this town where their first death occurred and where they've wiped it out.
How did they wipe it out? They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not. That found that up to half of the positive results were presenting no symptoms, which means they were not isolated and free to roam around infecting others. Once the carriers were identified they were isolated and byebye went Corona. Iceland found the same thing.

Italy as a whole was, and AFAIK still is, testing only those with symptoms, which means they're going to miss the silent carriers, and their infections will continue to mount. Again, same as we're doing.

 

[Dragonlady]

I'm in NO WAY suggesting people should treat this differently than what we're told. It's too early.

For comparison, currently Corona19 has a mortality rate of 4.61% world wide, however, the mortality rate in the USA is 1.63%. So much for our healthcare sucks. I only checked Switzerland, which is a personal PROG-favorite nationalized medicine. They come in a 1.81%. Bet your ass most nationalized healthcare systems are higher than the USA, same with the rate of people affected - but that's another story.

OK two things on this straw-filled premise.

Number one, on the numbers, we have 4,269 cases which had an outcome, either Recovered or Died. Of those, 1731 were deaths. I'm prohibited from posting what that percentage is but I guarantee you it's nowhere near 1.81. Number two, as far as nationalized health systems, check out Germany, the first country to do it, in the 19th century.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop	1st case
World	622,490	+26,178	28,808	+1,467	137,373	456,309	24,016	79.9	3.7	Jan 10
USA	105,778	+1,652	1,731	+35	2,538	101,509	2,494	320	5	Jan 20
Italy	86,498		9,134		10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151	Jan 29
China	81,394	+54	3,295	+3	74,971	3,128	886	57	2	Jan 10
Spain	72,248	+6,529	5,812	+674	12,285	54,151	4,165	1,545	124	Jan 30
Germany	53,340	+2,469	399	+48	6,658	46,283	1,581	637	5	Jan 26

As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model --- not because of who has what health care system while you spin your Ronald Reagan booga-booga record from 1962, but simply because they took a lax attitude when they were first hit by it.

So as far as "tell you what you're missing", there are a couple of Biglys.

Don't know what you're looking at. Here's the current data sorted by most cases per million, up to the USA. I deleted rows for smaller territories. What in this data would tell me "As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model"?????

If you have Excel I can teach you how to use it

Territory	….	Cases	….	Deaths	….	Recovered	….	Number of cases per 1 million population	….	Mortality Rate	….	Recovery Rate
Switzerland	….	13,377	….	242	….	1,530	….	1,546	….	1.81%	….	11.44%
Spain	….	72,248	….	5,812	….	12,285	….	1,545	….	8.04%	….	17.00%
Italy	….	86,498	….	9,134	….	10,950	….	1,431	….	10.56%	….	12.66%
Austria	….	8,030	….	68	….	225	….	892	….	0.85%	….	2.80%
Belgium	….	9,134	….	353	….	1,063	….	788	….	3.86%	….	11.64%
Norway	….	3,973	….	20	….	7	….	733	….	0.50%	….	0.18%
Germany	….	53,340	….	399	….	6,658	….	637	….	0.75%	….	12.48%
Netherlands	….	9,762	….	639	….	3	….	570	….	6.55%	….	0.03%
Portugal	….	5,170	….	100	….	43	….	507	….	1.93%	….	0.83%
France	….	32,964	….	1,995	….	5,700	….	505	….	6.05%	….	17.29%
Estonia	….	645	….	1	….	20	….	486	….	0.16%	….	3.10%
Ireland	….	2,121	….	22	….	5	….	430	….	1.04%	….	0.24%
Iran	….	35,408	….	2,517	….	11,679	….	422	….	7.11%	….	32.98%
Israel	….	3,460	….	12	….	89	….	400	….	0.35%	….	2.57%
Denmark	….	2,201	….	65	….	1	….	380	….	2.95%	….	0.05%
USA	….	106,258	….	1,751	….	2,538	….	321	….	1.65%	….	2.39%

Pogo uses his numbers to paint a worse possible scenario. Kinda like, if you haven't recovered, you're going to die scenario.

They need to make things seem worse than they really are or else they become depressed.

I realize that for conservatives, denial is not just a river in Egypt, but here are some other hard facts: Italy is indeed the model you're following, with a few key exceptions:

1. Italy has far more hospital beds and capacity, per capita, than the USA. Italy has 3.14 beds per 1000 people. The USA has 2.77 beds per 1000 people. That means that Italy was capable of treating a larger percentage of the sickest patients.

2. Except of course, the Italian hospital staff had insufficient PPE and they started getting sick and dying. I have a dear friend who is an emergency room nurse in New York City. One of the staff in her hospital has died of the disease. A day or two ago, staff were told that even if they test positive, they should continue treating patients until their symptoms start to show. That isn't because they're not infectious, that's because there is no one else to replace them. In Boston, more than 150 EMT have tested positive. Over 2000 New York policemen have called in sick.

The whole point of the self-isolation and shutting everything down is to stop people from spreading a highly contageous virus. There are no cases in my county and yet I'm staying home and self-isolating because, if everyone does that, the virus has nowhere to go.

Edited to correct spelling mistakes that regrettably changed the content: the USA 2.77 bed per 1000, not 100, and I change "country" to "county", because I'm well aware that we've have cases in the country, just not in my county, which is just one small corner of it.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I'm in NO WAY suggesting people should treat this differently than what we're told. It's too early.

For comparison, currently Corona19 has a mortality rate of 4.61% world wide, however, the mortality rate in the USA is 1.63%. So much for our healthcare sucks. I only checked Switzerland, which is a personal PROG-favorite nationalized medicine. They come in a 1.81%. Bet your ass most nationalized healthcare systems are higher than the USA, same with the rate of people affected - but that's another story.

OK two things on this straw-filled premise.

Number one, on the numbers, we have 4,269 cases which had an outcome, either Recovered or Died. Of those, 1731 were deaths. I'm prohibited from posting what that percentage is but I guarantee you it's nowhere near 1.81. Number two, as far as nationalized health systems, check out Germany, the first country to do it, in the 19th century.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop	1st case
World	622,490	+26,178	28,808	+1,467	137,373	456,309	24,016	79.9	3.7	Jan 10
USA	105,778	+1,652	1,731	+35	2,538	101,509	2,494	320	5	Jan 20
Italy	86,498		9,134		10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151	Jan 29
China	81,394	+54	3,295	+3	74,971	3,128	886	57	2	Jan 10
Spain	72,248	+6,529	5,812	+674	12,285	54,151	4,165	1,545	124	Jan 30
Germany	53,340	+2,469	399	+48	6,658	46,283	1,581	637	5	Jan 26

As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model --- not because of who has what health care system while you spin your Ronald Reagan booga-booga record from 1962, but simply because they took a lax attitude when they were first hit by it.

So as far as "tell you what you're missing", there are a couple of Biglys.

Don't know what you're looking at. Here's the current data sorted by most cases per million, up to the USA. I deleted rows for smaller territories. What in this data would tell me "As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model"?????

If you have Excel I can teach you how to use it

Territory	….	Cases	….	Deaths	….	Recovered	….	Number of cases per 1 million population	….	Mortality Rate	….	Recovery Rate
Switzerland	….	13,377	….	242	….	1,530	….	1,546	….	1.81%	….	11.44%
Spain	….	72,248	….	5,812	….	12,285	….	1,545	….	8.04%	….	17.00%
Italy	….	86,498	….	9,134	….	10,950	….	1,431	….	10.56%	….	12.66%
Austria	….	8,030	….	68	….	225	….	892	….	0.85%	….	2.80%
Belgium	….	9,134	….	353	….	1,063	….	788	….	3.86%	….	11.64%
Norway	….	3,973	….	20	….	7	….	733	….	0.50%	….	0.18%
Germany	….	53,340	….	399	….	6,658	….	637	….	0.75%	….	12.48%
Netherlands	….	9,762	….	639	….	3	….	570	….	6.55%	….	0.03%
Portugal	….	5,170	….	100	….	43	….	507	….	1.93%	….	0.83%
France	….	32,964	….	1,995	….	5,700	….	505	….	6.05%	….	17.29%
Estonia	….	645	….	1	….	20	….	486	….	0.16%	….	3.10%
Ireland	….	2,121	….	22	….	5	….	430	….	1.04%	….	0.24%
Iran	….	35,408	….	2,517	….	11,679	….	422	….	7.11%	….	32.98%
Israel	….	3,460	….	12	….	89	….	400	….	0.35%	….	2.57%
Denmark	….	2,201	….	65	….	1	….	380	….	2.95%	….	0.05%
USA	….	106,258	….	1,751	….	2,538	….	321	….	1.65%	….	2.39%

Pogo uses his numbers to paint a worse possible scenario. Kinda like, if you haven't recovered, you're going to die scenario.

They need to make things seem worse than they really are or else they become depressed.

I realize that for conservatives, denial is not just a river in Egypt, but here are some other hard facts: Italy is indeed the model you're following, with a few key exceptions:

1. Italy has far more hospital beds and capacity, per capita, than the USA. Italy has 3.14 beds per 1000 people. The USA has 2.77 beds per 1000 people. That means that Italy was capable of treating a larger percentage of the sickest patients.

2. Except of course, the Italian hospital staff had insufficient PPE and they started getting sick and dying. I have a dear friend who is an emergency room nurse in New York City. One of the staff in her hospital has died of the disease. A day or two ago, staff were told that even if they test positive, they should continue treating patients until their symptoms start to show. That isn't because they're not infectious, that's because there is no one else to replace them. In Boston, more than 150 EMT have tested positive. Over 2000 New York policemen have called in sick.

The whole point of the self-isolation and shutting everything down is to stop people from spreading a highly contageous virus. There are no cases in my county and yet I'm staying home and self-isolating because, if everyone does that, the virus has nowhere to go.

Edited to correct spelling mistakes that regrettably changed the content: the USA 2.77 bed per 1000, not 100, and I change "country" to "county", because I'm well aware that we've have cases in the country, just not in my county, which is just one small corner of it.

I don't disagree with most of that. This virus is different from other viruses in that it seems to act to whatever deficiency the host has.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

I'm in NO WAY suggesting people should treat this differently than what we're told. It's too early.

For comparison, currently Corona19 has a mortality rate of 4.61% world wide, however, the mortality rate in the USA is 1.63%. So much for our healthcare sucks. I only checked Switzerland, which is a personal PROG-favorite nationalized medicine. They come in a 1.81%. Bet your ass most nationalized healthcare systems are higher than the USA, same with the rate of people affected - but that's another story.

OK two things on this straw-filled premise.

Number one, on the numbers, we have 4,269 cases which had an outcome, either Recovered or Died. Of those, 1731 were deaths. I'm prohibited from posting what that percentage is but I guarantee you it's nowhere near 1.81. Number two, as far as nationalized health systems, check out Germany, the first country to do it, in the 19th century.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop	1st case
World	622,490	+26,178	28,808	+1,467	137,373	456,309	24,016	79.9	3.7	Jan 10
USA	105,778	+1,652	1,731	+35	2,538	101,509	2,494	320	5	Jan 20
Italy	86,498		9,134		10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151	Jan 29
China	81,394	+54	3,295	+3	74,971	3,128	886	57	2	Jan 10
Spain	72,248	+6,529	5,812	+674	12,285	54,151	4,165	1,545	124	Jan 30
Germany	53,340	+2,469	399	+48	6,658	46,283	1,581	637	5	Jan 26

As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model --- not because of who has what health care system while you spin your Ronald Reagan booga-booga record from 1962, but simply because they took a lax attitude when they were first hit by it.

So as far as "tell you what you're missing", there are a couple of Biglys.

Don't know what you're looking at. Here's the current data sorted by most cases per million, up to the USA. I deleted rows for smaller territories. What in this data would tell me "As you can see we're much closer to Italy's model"?????

If you have Excel I can teach you how to use it

Territory	….	Cases	….	Deaths	….	Recovered	….	Number of cases per 1 million population	….	Mortality Rate	….	Recovery Rate
Switzerland	….	13,377	….	242	….	1,530	….	1,546	….	1.81%	….	11.44%
Spain	….	72,248	….	5,812	….	12,285	….	1,545	….	8.04%	….	17.00%
Italy	….	86,498	….	9,134	….	10,950	….	1,431	….	10.56%	….	12.66%
Austria	….	8,030	….	68	….	225	….	892	….	0.85%	….	2.80%
Belgium	….	9,134	….	353	….	1,063	….	788	….	3.86%	….	11.64%
Norway	….	3,973	….	20	….	7	….	733	….	0.50%	….	0.18%
Germany	….	53,340	….	399	….	6,658	….	637	….	0.75%	….	12.48%
Netherlands	….	9,762	….	639	….	3	….	570	….	6.55%	….	0.03%
Portugal	….	5,170	….	100	….	43	….	507	….	1.93%	….	0.83%
France	….	32,964	….	1,995	….	5,700	….	505	….	6.05%	….	17.29%
Estonia	….	645	….	1	….	20	….	486	….	0.16%	….	3.10%
Ireland	….	2,121	….	22	….	5	….	430	….	1.04%	….	0.24%
Iran	….	35,408	….	2,517	….	11,679	….	422	….	7.11%	….	32.98%
Israel	….	3,460	….	12	….	89	….	400	….	0.35%	….	2.57%
Denmark	….	2,201	….	65	….	1	….	380	….	2.95%	….	0.05%
USA	….	106,258	….	1,751	….	2,538	….	321	….	1.65%	….	2.39%

Pogo uses his numbers to paint a worse possible scenario. Kinda like, if you haven't recovered, you're going to die scenario.

They need to make things seem worse than they really are or else they become depressed.

I posted the chart, verbatim without a value judgment. What you make of it is up to you.

Why lie Pogo, save face?