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Which is why most of the posters here didn't go into the educational field. I can condemn a cop for beating up a person on the street without being a cop. I can condemn what that teacher did and I'm not a teacher, well, not certified anyway. I have two special needs kids, one of them 22 and still in diapers 24/7 and I have never resorted to the type of behavior that teacher resorted to.
You can condemn anyone you want.
My point isn't that you cannot condemn the teacher, or a cop. My point is that you really don't know how you would react after being in a VERY UNUSUAL school like this one, and this makes it much easier to condemn this teacher.
That being said, I agree the woman should probably find another line of work.
However, I also think there needs to be a careful examination of the conditions at the school that would cause a certified teacher to go ape on a kid.
Are you a teacher's union rep or something? That teacher had no cause to do what she did. If she was attempting to restrain the kid then it may be different.
Here is the video I saw - at least I hope I can get this to work.
School Moves to Fire Teacher Caught Beating Student
Here is the video I saw - at least I hope I can get this to work.
School Moves to Fire Teacher Caught Beating Student
They should re-hire the teacher, pay her combat pay and fire the little monster.
.
Let me begin by saying this...I do not support what this teacher did. I think that she should be fired. Teachers - with the exception of protecting themselves or their students - should never touch a child in anger for any reason.
But I think what many people here are unaware of...are some of the situations teachers are now finding themselves in today, in schools around the US.
I am currently working in an urban school district with a majority of students identified as "at-risk," here are somethings I witness or was part of...today...not this week, this month, this year....today...and it was a good day.
- A student refused to stop teasing one of his classmates despite several warnings to do so. After his third warning, the teacher asked this student to remove himself from the classroom and go to the school's in-school suspension room. The child refused. He sat in his chair smiling. When the teacher asked again, the student said, "Who's gonna make me? You gonna make me? Go on and touch me, you'll see what happens."
What would YOU do in this situation...knowing that if you touch this student he might attack you or endanger another student. Knowing that all of your other students are watching you for any sign of weakness. Knowing that this student is testing you. Knowing that valuable teaching time you need to be able to prepare your students for those assessment tests that tell the world whether or not you are doing your job are slipping away...
- A vast majority of students showed up with no pencils, no textbooks, and no paper to their science class. This was the 3rd time this week the majority of students had no pencils...and it has been an ongoing problem all year. When the teacher handed out his 5 spare pencils, the majority of students still didn't have pencils. They began to complain loudly that they wouldn't be able to do any work today since they didn't have pencils.
What would YOU do in this situation...knowing that the school provides pencils, but that the supply is constantly depleted because this happens in every classroom, everyday. Knowing that the parents, from what you have observed, don't really seem to care. Knowing that your administration has told you to teach them...in whatever condition they arrive...because we can't MAKE them show up prepared to learn...we can only deal with what we get when we come to class. Knowing that valuable teaching time you need to be able to prepare these students for the assessment tests that tell the world whether or not you are doing your job are slipping away...
- A majority of social studies students are failing class. The teacher has been teaching a unit in the following way...Introduce the unit with an activity, a film, etc. Read the chapter section with the class...help them take notes...remind them to study...(the classes are block scheduled so students receive science and social studies for two class periods in a row everyother day)...two days later, give a quiz on the section. The students are not studying...they are not reviewing the concepts taught in class and admit it proudly. They are "too busy" to study. The teacher begins reviewing the quiz questions, in detail, immediately before the test...some students listen to the teacher as she gives the answers to the quiz, 5 minutes before she gives the quiz, they get 100%...most kids put their heads down or don't listen...they fail. The principal informs the teacher she must make the students pass.
What do you do when you have tried everything...including literally giving your students the answers 5 minutes before you test them...and the children still are failing? What do you do when you show interesting movies related to the topic you are teaching, but they say they are boring...when you try hands on projects related to the topic, but they complain they can't do them because they are too hard. When they only need to learn 5 terms...but they refuse to review the material?
- A special education student refuses to open his book in class...his TSS (one-on-one aide) tries to get him back on task but the scene escalates until his is lying on the floor screaming...all the other students watch and giggle uncomfortable.
How do you teach the rest of the students while this is going on?
I could go on...I can think of at least 5 different things more that happened today...and as I said, it was a fine day, nothing out of the ordinary.
Please understand...I'm not whining...I love being a teacher, it was what I was meant to do. I don't think that this school is running the way it should, there are MANY things I would change if I could...but this is the way it is...this is a typical urban school.
I see the same attitude here from some people that I hear from my dad when I tell him about my day...in the end he always says something like, "I'd grab that kid by the arm and haul him into the office..." or "I'd kick those kids out of my room and tell them not to come back until they have a pencil..." or "I'd get that parent on the phone and tell them that if their kid swears at me one more time he's gone..."
and I think that sometimes people who don't work in a public school environment think that we can actually do that...
But we can't. It doesn't work that way. I can't kick out the disruptive kids. I can't kick kids out for coming unprepared. I can't make parents who don't care (or just as often, parents who don't have control of their children) control their children.
Something like this incident with the teacher beating up the student happens and we freakout about how wrong the teacher was (and she WAS, don't misunderstand me)...but what I see, perhaps because of what I see on a regular basis is a teacher who never should have been a teacher (a person like many of you) losing it because of an environment that is COMMON in public education today. An environment where we have neutered our teachers and administrators from being able to remove disruptive children who are unwilling to come to school prepared and willing to learn so that other students can.
And I believe strongly that ALL kids can learn...but I also believe that kids, just like adults...will live up to our expectations...and by allowing all of these behaviors to occur (probably very similar to what was going on at this charter school) because God forbid we kick a few kids out...we are just telling kids that this is the type of behavior we expect and will accept. Give teachers and administrators their authority back...allow me to say to a student, "This is our classroom...I am your teacher...if you refuse to follow the procedures I have set up to facilitate learning in this room then get out...and don't come back until you are willing to do so," then don't be surprised when people lose their shit and go after a kid. (Not condoning it or saying that it was right...just saying that it wasn't particularly shocking given what she probably dealt with on a typical day).
*Deep breath* Ok...rant over.
BRAVO Gem! Bravo!
NOBODY but you and those who do what you do has any idea what it's like. They can go on and on with their armchair assessments, and how the teachers and schools are failing these kids, and that's what's wrong with America.
But, they forget, or just don't care, that there ARE dedicated teachers out there, who has the student as their #1 focus.
Testing,,,,,,behaviors.,,,,,parents that don't give a shit,,,,,,,,,,,admin that are more concerned with how they look then what is best for the student....
Oh, by the way, I heard on the evening news tonight they DID fire that teacher.
How do you teach the rest of the students while this is going on?
How do you teach the rest of the students while this is going on?
if we look into the history of the drive for public schooling and compulsory attendance in this and other countries, we find at the root not so much misguided altruism as a conscious scheme to coerce the mass of the population into a mould desired by the Establishment. Recalcitrant minorities were to be forced into a majority mould; all citizens were to be inculcated in the civic virtues, notably and always including obedience to the State apparatus. Indeed, if the mass of the populace is to be educated in government schools, how could these schools not become a mighty instrument for the inculcation of obedience to the State authorities? Martin Luther, a leader in the first modern drive for compulsory State education, phrased the plea typically in his famous letter of 1524 to the rulers of Germany:
Dear rulers . . . . I maintain that the civil authorities are under obligation to compel the people to send their children to school . . . . If the government can compel such citizens as are fit for military service to bear spear and rifle, to mount ramparts, and perform other martial duties in time of war, how much more has it a right to the people to send their children to school, because in this case we are warring with the devil, whose object it is secretly to exhaust our cities and principalities . . . . 3
Read more: For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto - Murray N. Rothbard :: Free classics from the Mises Institute For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto - Murray N. Rothbard :: Free classics from the Mises Institute
Geez! I can't believe it! Is the whole damn country as well as world going nuts???!!!
Someone needs to tell this teacher it's not the 1880's anymore.
Geez! I can't believe it! Is the whole damn country as well as world going nuts???!!!
maybe we are the insane ones for being normal...
Let me begin by saying this...I do not support what this teacher did. I think that she should be fired. Teachers - with the exception of protecting themselves or their students - should never touch a child in anger for any reason.
But I think what many people here are unaware of...are some of the situations teachers are now finding themselves in today, in schools around the US.
I am currently working in an urban school district with a majority of students identified as "at-risk," here are somethings I witness or was part of...today...not this week, this month, this year....today...and it was a good day.
- A student refused to stop teasing one of his classmates despite several warnings to do so. After his third warning, the teacher asked this student to remove himself from the classroom and go to the school's in-school suspension room. The child refused. He sat in his chair smiling. When the teacher asked again, the student said, "Who's gonna make me? You gonna make me? Go on and touch me, you'll see what happens."
What would YOU do in this situation...knowing that if you touch this student he might attack you or endanger another student. Knowing that all of your other students are watching you for any sign of weakness. Knowing that this student is testing you. Knowing that valuable teaching time you need to be able to prepare your students for those assessment tests that tell the world whether or not you are doing your job are slipping away...
- A vast majority of students showed up with no pencils, no textbooks, and no paper to their science class. This was the 3rd time this week the majority of students had no pencils...and it has been an ongoing problem all year. When the teacher handed out his 5 spare pencils, the majority of students still didn't have pencils. They began to complain loudly that they wouldn't be able to do any work today since they didn't have pencils.
What would YOU do in this situation...knowing that the school provides pencils, but that the supply is constantly depleted because this happens in every classroom, everyday. Knowing that the parents, from what you have observed, don't really seem to care. Knowing that your administration has told you to teach them...in whatever condition they arrive...because we can't MAKE them show up prepared to learn...we can only deal with what we get when we come to class. Knowing that valuable teaching time you need to be able to prepare these students for the assessment tests that tell the world whether or not you are doing your job are slipping away...
- A majority of social studies students are failing class. The teacher has been teaching a unit in the following way...Introduce the unit with an activity, a film, etc. Read the chapter section with the class...help them take notes...remind them to study...(the classes are block scheduled so students receive science and social studies for two class periods in a row everyother day)...two days later, give a quiz on the section. The students are not studying...they are not reviewing the concepts taught in class and admit it proudly. They are "too busy" to study. The teacher begins reviewing the quiz questions, in detail, immediately before the test...some students listen to the teacher as she gives the answers to the quiz, 5 minutes before she gives the quiz, they get 100%...most kids put their heads down or don't listen...they fail. The principal informs the teacher she must make the students pass.
What do you do when you have tried everything...including literally giving your students the answers 5 minutes before you test them...and the children still are failing? What do you do when you show interesting movies related to the topic you are teaching, but they say they are boring...when you try hands on projects related to the topic, but they complain they can't do them because they are too hard. When they only need to learn 5 terms...but they refuse to review the material?
- A special education student refuses to open his book in class...his TSS (one-on-one aide) tries to get him back on task but the scene escalates until his is lying on the floor screaming...all the other students watch and giggle uncomfortable.
How do you teach the rest of the students while this is going on?
I could go on...I can think of at least 5 different things more that happened today...and as I said, it was a fine day, nothing out of the ordinary.
Please understand...I'm not whining...I love being a teacher, it was what I was meant to do. I don't think that this school is running the way it should, there are MANY things I would change if I could...but this is the way it is...this is a typical urban school.
I see the same attitude here from some people that I hear from my dad when I tell him about my day...in the end he always says something like, "I'd grab that kid by the arm and haul him into the office..." or "I'd kick those kids out of my room and tell them not to come back until they have a pencil..." or "I'd get that parent on the phone and tell them that if their kid swears at me one more time he's gone..."
and I think that sometimes people who don't work in a public school environment think that we can actually do that...
But we can't. It doesn't work that way. I can't kick out the disruptive kids. I can't kick kids out for coming unprepared. I can't make parents who don't care (or just as often, parents who don't have control of their children) control their children.
Something like this incident with the teacher beating up the student happens and we freakout about how wrong the teacher was (and she WAS, don't misunderstand me)...but what I see, perhaps because of what I see on a regular basis is a teacher who never should have been a teacher (a person like many of you) losing it because of an environment that is COMMON in public education today. An environment where we have neutered our teachers and administrators from being able to remove disruptive children who are unwilling to come to school prepared and willing to learn so that other students can.
And I believe strongly that ALL kids can learn...but I also believe that kids, just like adults...will live up to our expectations...and by allowing all of these behaviors to occur (probably very similar to what was going on at this charter school) because God forbid we kick a few kids out...we are just telling kids that this is the type of behavior we expect and will accept. Give teachers and administrators their authority back...allow me to say to a student, "This is our classroom...I am your teacher...if you refuse to follow the procedures I have set up to facilitate learning in this room then get out...and don't come back until you are willing to do so," then don't be surprised when people lose their shit and go after a kid. (Not condoning it or saying that it was right...just saying that it wasn't particularly shocking given what she probably dealt with on a typical day).
*Deep breath* Ok...rant over.
Let me begin by saying this...I do not support what this teacher did. I think that she should be fired. Teachers - with the exception of protecting themselves or their students - should never touch a child in anger for any reason.
But I think what many people here are unaware of...are some of the situations teachers are now finding themselves in today, in schools around the US.
I am currently working in an urban school district with a majority of students identified as "at-risk," here are somethings I witness or was part of...today...not this week, this month, this year....today...and it was a good day.
- A student refused to stop teasing one of his classmates despite several warnings to do so. After his third warning, the teacher asked this student to remove himself from the classroom and go to the school's in-school suspension room. The child refused. He sat in his chair smiling. When the teacher asked again, the student said, "Who's gonna make me? You gonna make me? Go on and touch me, you'll see what happens."
What would YOU do in this situation...knowing that if you touch this student he might attack you or endanger another student. Knowing that all of your other students are watching you for any sign of weakness. Knowing that this student is testing you. Knowing that valuable teaching time you need to be able to prepare your students for those assessment tests that tell the world whether or not you are doing your job are slipping away...
- A vast majority of students showed up with no pencils, no textbooks, and no paper to their science class. This was the 3rd time this week the majority of students had no pencils...and it has been an ongoing problem all year. When the teacher handed out his 5 spare pencils, the majority of students still didn't have pencils. They began to complain loudly that they wouldn't be able to do any work today since they didn't have pencils.
What would YOU do in this situation...knowing that the school provides pencils, but that the supply is constantly depleted because this happens in every classroom, everyday. Knowing that the parents, from what you have observed, don't really seem to care. Knowing that your administration has told you to teach them...in whatever condition they arrive...because we can't MAKE them show up prepared to learn...we can only deal with what we get when we come to class. Knowing that valuable teaching time you need to be able to prepare these students for the assessment tests that tell the world whether or not you are doing your job are slipping away...
- A majority of social studies students are failing class. The teacher has been teaching a unit in the following way...Introduce the unit with an activity, a film, etc. Read the chapter section with the class...help them take notes...remind them to study...(the classes are block scheduled so students receive science and social studies for two class periods in a row everyother day)...two days later, give a quiz on the section. The students are not studying...they are not reviewing the concepts taught in class and admit it proudly. They are "too busy" to study. The teacher begins reviewing the quiz questions, in detail, immediately before the test...some students listen to the teacher as she gives the answers to the quiz, 5 minutes before she gives the quiz, they get 100%...most kids put their heads down or don't listen...they fail. The principal informs the teacher she must make the students pass.
What do you do when you have tried everything...including literally giving your students the answers 5 minutes before you test them...and the children still are failing? What do you do when you show interesting movies related to the topic you are teaching, but they say they are boring...when you try hands on projects related to the topic, but they complain they can't do them because they are too hard. When they only need to learn 5 terms...but they refuse to review the material?
- A special education student refuses to open his book in class...his TSS (one-on-one aide) tries to get him back on task but the scene escalates until his is lying on the floor screaming...all the other students watch and giggle uncomfortable.
How do you teach the rest of the students while this is going on?
I could go on...I can think of at least 5 different things more that happened today...and as I said, it was a fine day, nothing out of the ordinary.
Please understand...I'm not whining...I love being a teacher, it was what I was meant to do. I don't think that this school is running the way it should, there are MANY things I would change if I could...but this is the way it is...this is a typical urban school.
I see the same attitude here from some people that I hear from my dad when I tell him about my day...in the end he always says something like, "I'd grab that kid by the arm and haul him into the office..." or "I'd kick those kids out of my room and tell them not to come back until they have a pencil..." or "I'd get that parent on the phone and tell them that if their kid swears at me one more time he's gone..."
and I think that sometimes people who don't work in a public school environment think that we can actually do that...
But we can't. It doesn't work that way. I can't kick out the disruptive kids. I can't kick kids out for coming unprepared. I can't make parents who don't care (or just as often, parents who don't have control of their children) control their children.
Something like this incident with the teacher beating up the student happens and we freakout about how wrong the teacher was (and she WAS, don't misunderstand me)...but what I see, perhaps because of what I see on a regular basis is a teacher who never should have been a teacher (a person like many of you) losing it because of an environment that is COMMON in public education today. An environment where we have neutered our teachers and administrators from being able to remove disruptive children who are unwilling to come to school prepared and willing to learn so that other students can.
And I believe strongly that ALL kids can learn...but I also believe that kids, just like adults...will live up to our expectations...and by allowing all of these behaviors to occur (probably very similar to what was going on at this charter school) because God forbid we kick a few kids out...we are just telling kids that this is the type of behavior we expect and will accept. Give teachers and administrators their authority back...allow me to say to a student, "This is our classroom...I am your teacher...if you refuse to follow the procedures I have set up to facilitate learning in this room then get out...and don't come back until you are willing to do so," then don't be surprised when people lose their shit and go after a kid. (Not condoning it or saying that it was right...just saying that it wasn't particularly shocking given what she probably dealt with on a typical day).
*Deep breath* Ok...rant over.
How do you teach the rest of the students while this is going on?
if we look into the history of the drive for public schooling and compulsory attendance in this and other countries, we find at the root not so much misguided altruism as a conscious scheme to coerce the mass of the population into a mould desired by the Establishment. Recalcitrant minorities were to be forced into a majority mould; all citizens were to be inculcated in the civic virtues, notably and always including obedience to the State apparatus. Indeed, if the mass of the populace is to be educated in government schools, how could these schools not become a mighty instrument for the inculcation of obedience to the State authorities? Martin Luther, a leader in the first modern drive for compulsory State education, phrased the plea typically in his famous letter of 1524 to the rulers of Germany:
Dear rulers . . . . I maintain that the civil authorities are under obligation to compel the people to send their children to school . . . . If the government can compel such citizens as are fit for military service to bear spear and rifle, to mount ramparts, and perform other martial duties in time of war, how much more has it a right to the people to send their children to school, because in this case we are warring with the devil, whose object it is secretly to exhaust our cities and principalities . . . . 3
Read more: For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto - Murray N. Rothbard :: Free classics from the Mises Institute For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto - Murray N. Rothbard :: Free classics from the Mises Institute
Is there a point?
if we look into the history of the drive for public schooling and compulsory attendance in this and other countries, we find at the root not so much misguided altruism as a conscious scheme to coerce the mass of the population into a mould desired by the Establishment. Recalcitrant minorities were to be forced into a majority mould; all citizens were to be inculcated in the civic virtues, notably and always including obedience to the State apparatus. Indeed, if the mass of the populace is to be educated in government schools, how could these schools not become a mighty instrument for the inculcation of obedience to the State authorities? Martin Luther, a leader in the first modern drive for compulsory State education, phrased the plea typically in his famous letter of 1524 to the rulers of Germany:
Dear rulers . . . . I maintain that the civil authorities are under obligation to compel the people to send their children to school . . . . If the government can compel such citizens as are fit for military service to bear spear and rifle, to mount ramparts, and perform other martial duties in time of war, how much more has it a right to the people to send their children to school, because in this case we are warring with the devil, whose object it is secretly to exhaust our cities and principalities . . . . 3
Read more: For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto - Murray N. Rothbard :: Free classics from the Mises Institute For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto - Murray N. Rothbard :: Free classics from the Mises Institute
Is there a point?
She complains that she can't teach. The purpose of public education is to baby sit and provide the members of the NEA with steady gainful employment.
.
Fail them all.
WillowTree Wrote:
Fail them all.
Ah, see, this is a perfect example of what I am talking about. In the real world, if your employee refused to do his/her work...you could fire them.
In the public school system, common sense no longer prevails. I am not allowed to give students a grade lower than a 60% for the first 2 marking periods - regardless of whether they do all their work or nothing at all. After that I can fail most students (some Special Education students are not allowed to fail, regardless of what they do), but if too many begin to fail the administration steps in to find out what the teacher is doing wrong.
WillowTree Wrote:
Fail them all.
Ah, see, this is a perfect example of what I am talking about. In the real world, if your employee refused to do his/her work...you could fire them.
In the public school system, common sense no longer prevails. I am not allowed to give students a grade lower than a 60% for the first 2 marking periods - regardless of whether they do all their work or nothing at all. After that I can fail most students (some Special Education students are not allowed to fail, regardless of what they do), but if too many begin to fail the administration steps in to find out what the teacher is doing wrong.
WillowTree Wrote:
Fail them all.
Ah, see, this is a perfect example of what I am talking about. In the real world, if your employee refused to do his/her work...you could fire them.
In the public school system, common sense no longer prevails. I am not allowed to give students a grade lower than a 60% for the first 2 marking periods - regardless of whether they do all their work or nothing at all. After that I can fail most students (some Special Education students are not allowed to fail, regardless of what they do), but if too many begin to fail the administration steps in to find out what the teacher is doing wrong.
