Taxation in America

[jc456]

When you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection. A consumption tax is the only fair way to do it. Those people that pay no income tax love spending the money of people that do. A VAT tax wouldn't work because it would still be a hidden tax.

Where I live, we have an 8 cent per dollar county tax. This also includes state tax as well. Everybody in our county pays this tax, the rich, the poor, and anyybody in between. No real problem that I can see. Democrats are constantly telling us the poor can't play income tax because they don't have the money. They have the money for big screens, smart phones, cars, and the usual amenities of a household, but not income tax.

It would control the spending problem too. You want free college, your consumption tax goes up three cents. Healthcare for all, our consumption tax would go up by 25 cents. That would stop Democrats from buying votes if everybody had a horse in the race. They would be forced to keep spending low.

A consumption tax also nails people who get around the taxation system. People who scrap metal for a living or extra money, people who work at an establishment where they earn big bucks in tips, people who are in the trades and work for cash on the side such as remodeling, concrete work, and bricklaying. People who repair cars at their homes for cash only. Everybody pays when they purchase products.

To get the Democrats on board, we could also make it progressive to shut them up. Standard living items 10 cents. In ground pools, boats, jewelry, 20 cent tax. High end cars, vacation homes, yachts, a 30 cent tax and so on.

You’re referring to the government robbing the poor and MC to pay the 1% right?

so the poor don't have to pay for the services we all do? why?

WTF. Are you crazy?

what's your point then? you veered away from the OP with this. again, the poor don't pay payroll taxes, so your video is a lie. So, again, are you saying poor don't have to pay for anything? BTW, the rich don't use SS either. another lie.

LOL. TAXES. ALL TAXES. Not just income taxes. Think. THINK.

and the poor don't pay any of them accept the local, state and consumption taxes. your video lied. they don't pay payroll taxes. they don't pay any federal taxes from income. the progressive curve exists and is real. your video was a lie. think, think, every time a rich guy takes his boat out, he spends a thousand on gas taxes.every time.

 

[gipper]

You’re referring to the government robbing the poor and MC to pay the 1% right?

so the poor don't have to pay for the services we all do? why?

WTF. Are you crazy?

what's your point then? you veered away from the OP with this. again, the poor don't pay payroll taxes, so your video is a lie. So, again, are you saying poor don't have to pay for anything? BTW, the rich don't use SS either. another lie.

LOL. TAXES. ALL TAXES. Not just income taxes. Think. THINK.

and the poor don't pay any of them accept the local, state and consumption taxes. your video lied. they don't pay payroll taxes. they don't pay any federal taxes from income. the progressive curve exists and is real. your video was a lie. think, think, every time a rich guy takes his boat out, he spends a thousand on gas taxes.every time.

Jesus dude. Wake the **** up.

 

[jc456]

When you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection. A consumption tax is the only fair way to do it. Those people that pay no income tax love spending the money of people that do. A VAT tax wouldn't work because it would still be a hidden tax.

Where I live, we have an 8 cent per dollar county tax. This also includes state tax as well. Everybody in our county pays this tax, the rich, the poor, and anyybody in between. No real problem that I can see. Democrats are constantly telling us the poor can't play income tax because they don't have the money. They have the money for big screens, smart phones, cars, and the usual amenities of a household, but not income tax.

It would control the spending problem too. You want free college, your consumption tax goes up three cents. Healthcare for all, our consumption tax would go up by 25 cents. That would stop Democrats from buying votes if everybody had a horse in the race. They would be forced to keep spending low.

A consumption tax also nails people who get around the taxation system. People who scrap metal for a living or extra money, people who work at an establishment where they earn big bucks in tips, people who are in the trades and work for cash on the side such as remodeling, concrete work, and bricklaying. People who repair cars at their homes for cash only. Everybody pays when they purchase products.

To get the Democrats on board, we could also make it progressive to shut them up. Standard living items 10 cents. In ground pools, boats, jewelry, 20 cent tax. High end cars, vacation homes, yachts, a 30 cent tax and so on.

You’re referring to the government robbing the poor and MC to pay the 1% right?

I'm saying everybody pays into the system. The rich pay, the poor pay, everybody pays, just like all the people who spend money in our county.

Watch the ******* video. The poor and middle class are getting screwed.

Thanks for wasting my time since your video didn't have anything anybody in this forum doesn't know about. First off, people who live an average lifespan will get way more out of their SS and Medicare than their contributions. It's hardly a tax at all since you get all that money back and more. Your city, county, state taxes go to support infrastructure you and I use every day: roads, bridges, water and sewer lines, police, fire, street lights, so you are paying for those things, and much less than people that earn more money than you do.

However when we are talking income taxes, that's something nearly half of our country doesn't pay. As for the Social Security maximum, most rich people won't collect that money, and the ones who do pay a disproportional amount compared to what they get back than your average blue collar worker. If we were to eliminate that ceiling, then it's only fair we eliminate the maximum they can collect.

The video sure does offer some on this forum information they don’t know. See JC’s posts.

that video is a lie, the poor don't pay payroll taxes. they don't get SS. They don't pay into it. you're fked in your little muddy brain. the only tax a poor person pays is for any products they purchase or utilities they may pay for. that's it.

 

[gipper]

You’re referring to the government robbing the poor and MC to pay the 1% right?

I'm saying everybody pays into the system. The rich pay, the poor pay, everybody pays, just like all the people who spend money in our county.

Watch the ******* video. The poor and middle class are getting screwed.

Thanks for wasting my time since your video didn't have anything anybody in this forum doesn't know about. First off, people who live an average lifespan will get way more out of their SS and Medicare than their contributions. It's hardly a tax at all since you get all that money back and more. Your city, county, state taxes go to support infrastructure you and I use every day: roads, bridges, water and sewer lines, police, fire, street lights, so you are paying for those things, and much less than people that earn more money than you do.

However when we are talking income taxes, that's something nearly half of our country doesn't pay. As for the Social Security maximum, most rich people won't collect that money, and the ones who do pay a disproportional amount compared to what they get back than your average blue collar worker. If we were to eliminate that ceiling, then it's only fair we eliminate the maximum they can collect.

The video sure does offer some on this forum information they don’t know. See JC’s posts.

that video is a lie, the poor don't pay payroll taxes. they don't get SS. They don't pay into it. you're fked in your little muddy brain. the only tax a poor person pays is for any products they purchase or utilities they may pay for. that's it.

You didn’t watch the entire video. Please stop posting.

 

[jc456]

so the poor don't have to pay for the services we all do? why?

WTF. Are you crazy?

what's your point then? you veered away from the OP with this. again, the poor don't pay payroll taxes, so your video is a lie. So, again, are you saying poor don't have to pay for anything? BTW, the rich don't use SS either. another lie.

LOL. TAXES. ALL TAXES. Not just income taxes. Think. THINK.

and the poor don't pay any of them accept the local, state and consumption taxes. your video lied. they don't pay payroll taxes. they don't pay any federal taxes from income. the progressive curve exists and is real. your video was a lie. think, think, every time a rich guy takes his boat out, he spends a thousand on gas taxes.every time.

Jesus dude. Wake the **** up.

wake up to what? I said what was what. you're ignorant and ignore the facts. I can't help you. no one can. the poor are poor because they are lazy people who don't wish to inject effort into life. They are at the mercy of masters and are dependent on those masters for their lives. Me, I'm at the mercy of my hard work. I don't work, I don't earn my living. but I earn it. I fight for it everyday. I get up at Five in the morning I drive through traffic and weather to get to the office. lazy poor people smoke their cigs and drink their liquor. I have no time to feel sorry for lazy. I have grandkids I'm teaching how to earn a buck so they know the effort it actually takes. And to realize the benefits of that work so that they don't become that lazy poor person.

 

[jc456]

I'm saying everybody pays into the system. The rich pay, the poor pay, everybody pays, just like all the people who spend money in our county.

Watch the ******* video. The poor and middle class are getting screwed.

Thanks for wasting my time since your video didn't have anything anybody in this forum doesn't know about. First off, people who live an average lifespan will get way more out of their SS and Medicare than their contributions. It's hardly a tax at all since you get all that money back and more. Your city, county, state taxes go to support infrastructure you and I use every day: roads, bridges, water and sewer lines, police, fire, street lights, so you are paying for those things, and much less than people that earn more money than you do.

However when we are talking income taxes, that's something nearly half of our country doesn't pay. As for the Social Security maximum, most rich people won't collect that money, and the ones who do pay a disproportional amount compared to what they get back than your average blue collar worker. If we were to eliminate that ceiling, then it's only fair we eliminate the maximum they can collect.

The video sure does offer some on this forum information they don’t know. See JC’s posts.

that video is a lie, the poor don't pay payroll taxes. they don't get SS. They don't pay into it. you're fked in your little muddy brain. the only tax a poor person pays is for any products they purchase or utilities they may pay for. that's it.

You didn’t watch the entire video. Please stop posting.

sure I did, it was 12 minutes fking long. wasted my time. your video is a lie. I can't articulate any better than that. you can't even agree that the poor guy doesn't pay payroll taxes. you're a joke at that failure. oh and your video takes the position that the mere fact the poor guy has to pay any taxes is the cause of the rich guy. wow!!!! I mean, when stupid is that stupid, one can't compete.

 

[kyzr]

No. Not right. As the Debt grows the interest on the Debt grows, just like only making minimum payments on your Visa bill.
Now the interest on the $23T Debt is about $450b a year. As the Debt grows to $30T and as interest rates eventually rise that interest will consume way too much of the Budget and drastic cuts will need to be made.

GDP doesn't always grow. Recessions happen now and then.
In simple terms its much better to have no Visa balance and no interest payments than to only be able to keep paying interest and not gaining on it.

One solution I heard was a "Convention of States" to force a Balanced Budget Amendment to keep the DC coxuckers from overspending.

Ok, but our national debt is very different than a credit card. Interest on debt amounts

No. Not right. As the Debt grows the interest on the Debt grows, just like only making minimum payments on your Visa bill.
Now the interest on the $23T Debt is about $450b a year. As the Debt grows to $30T and as interest rates eventually rise that interest will consume way too much of the Budget and drastic cuts will need to be made.

GDP doesn't always grow. Recessions happen now and then.
In simple terms its much better to have no Visa balance and no interest payments than to only be able to keep paying interest and not gaining on it.

One solution I heard was a "Convention of States" to force a Balanced Budget Amendment to keep the DC coxuckers from overspending.

Our national debt is nothing like a credit card debt. It is the mechanism in which we manage our economy and sovereign currency. The debt that we owe is largely owed to us the public (citizens, businesses, and banks) through treasury bills and bonds. If we paid it all back at once then we would be injecting Trillions of dollars back into our own Economy and inflation would wipe us out. Its a game of monopoly based on borrowing and spending.... Yes very different than a household budget or credit card bill. If you're thinking of it as a Visa bill then I suggest you do a little more research on what the national debt actually is.

Nope. You are conflating two different lumps of money.
1. The $23T National Debt what Treasury funds thru borrowing to pay for the $4T federal budget.
2. The Federal Reserve Balance Sheet, currently at $4.8T. Federal Reserve Board - Recent balance sheet trends
View attachment 308746

The Federal Reserve manages the interest rates and money supply to target 2% inflation and full employment.

My analogy to a Visa bill is only showing what happens when you keep borrowing and borrowing and the interest payments ruin your finances.

So what exactly are you comparing to the VISA bill?

1. The $23T Debt is analogous to a maxed out Visa card balance where all you can afford to pay is the interest, you can never pay down the debt.
2. A much better financial situation is "pay as you go" every month so you are not paying interest on the borrowed money balance.

With a credit card bill the best solution is to eventually pay it off over time. Do you think it would be a good thing to pay off the US National Debt until it is all paid off?

Paying off the National Debt is a major debate. I'd be happy not adding to it and paying it down slowly over time.
The "good thing" is not paying $450b a year in interest when we only spend $4T to run the government. We could do a lot with that $450b that we pay in interest.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ok, but our national debt is very different than a credit card. Interest on debt amounts
Our national debt is nothing like a credit card debt. It is the mechanism in which we manage our economy and sovereign currency. The debt that we owe is largely owed to us the public (citizens, businesses, and banks) through treasury bills and bonds. If we paid it all back at once then we would be injecting Trillions of dollars back into our own Economy and inflation would wipe us out. Its a game of monopoly based on borrowing and spending.... Yes very different than a household budget or credit card bill. If you're thinking of it as a Visa bill then I suggest you do a little more research on what the national debt actually is.

Nope. You are conflating two different lumps of money.
1. The $23T National Debt what Treasury funds thru borrowing to pay for the $4T federal budget.
2. The Federal Reserve Balance Sheet, currently at $4.8T. Federal Reserve Board - Recent balance sheet trends
View attachment 308746

The Federal Reserve manages the interest rates and money supply to target 2% inflation and full employment.

My analogy to a Visa bill is only showing what happens when you keep borrowing and borrowing and the interest payments ruin your finances.

So what exactly are you comparing to the VISA bill?

1. The $23T Debt is analogous to a maxed out Visa card balance where all you can afford to pay is the interest, you can never pay down the debt.
2. A much better financial situation is "pay as you go" every month so you are not paying interest on the borrowed money balance.

With a credit card bill the best solution is to eventually pay it off over time. Do you think it would be a good thing to pay off the US National Debt until it is all paid off?

Paying off the National Debt is a major debate. I'd be happy not adding to it and paying it down slowly over time.
The "good thing" is not paying $450b a year in interest when we only spend $4T to run the government. We could do a lot with that $450b that we pay in interest.

The only way to do that is to increase taxes, lower spending, or both. The problem is, both would have a negative effect on our economy.

It's like Walter E Williams once asked: What if I decided to run for Congress, and my platform would be, I will bring no money back to our state, how many of you would actually vote for me?

Our social programs are exemplified by my Raccoon theory. You see a raccoon digging around in your garbage, so in sympathy, you go inside the house and get that quarter ham on a bone you were going to throw out at the end of the week anyhow. The animal eats in delight. Now give it about 20 seconds, and try to take that ham bone back and see what happens to you.

Democrats are well aware of my raccoon theory. That's why they want to keep starting more social programs. They know once instituted, it will be impossible for Democrats or Republicans to remove them--at least not without getting your hand all bit up.

 

[gipper]

It is truly sad that average Americans fail to see the fraud being committed against them, with this absurd wealth inequality.

Do they really think the 1% deserve socialism, but the poor get rigged individualism?

 

[g5000]

The least fair of all would be to exempt half the population from paying any income taxes at all, then tax the earners according to a GRADUATED percentage, with the highest earners paying the highest percentage(!). Talk about Highway Robbery.

Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise.

To James Madison Fontainebleau Oct. 28 1785; The Letters of Thomas Jefferson

 

[gipper]

The least fair of all would be to exempt half the population from paying any income taxes at all, then tax the earners according to a GRADUATED percentage, with the highest earners paying the highest percentage(!). Talk about Highway Robbery.

Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise.

To James Madison Fontainebleau Oct. 28 1785; The Letters of Thomas Jefferson

When the poor are paying the same percentage as the rich, when all taxes are factored in, change is needed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It is truly sad that average Americans fail to see the fraud being committed against them, with this absurd wealth inequality.

Do they really think the 1% deserve socialism, but the poor get rigged individualism?

Your complaint falls on deaf ears because you refuse to separate taxes. There are different taxes for different things. Nearly half of our country pays no income taxes while the top 20% pay close to 90% of all collected income taxes. and yet, people think they should be paying even more than 88%. So how much more should they be paying? Because when I ask people that question, nobody can come up with a straight answer.

 

[g5000]

The least fair of all would be to exempt half the population from paying any income taxes at all, then tax the earners according to a GRADUATED percentage, with the highest earners paying the highest percentage(!). Talk about Highway Robbery.

Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise.

To James Madison Fontainebleau Oct. 28 1785; The Letters of Thomas Jefferson

When the poor are paying the same percentage as the rich, when all taxes are factored in, change is needed.

Tom Jefferson was a commie pinko ***!

 

[Norman]

The least fair of all would be to exempt half the population from paying any income taxes at all, then tax the earners according to a GRADUATED percentage, with the highest earners paying the highest percentage(!). Talk about Highway Robbery.

Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise.

To James Madison Fontainebleau Oct. 28 1785; The Letters of Thomas Jefferson

When the poor are paying the same percentage as the rich, when all taxes are factored in, change is needed.

It's a complete lie that this is happening.

But even if it was happening, in America the idea is that you get to keep most of your income. The percentage should be so small that it doesn't even matter.

 

[gipper]

The least fair of all would be to exempt half the population from paying any income taxes at all, then tax the earners according to a GRADUATED percentage, with the highest earners paying the highest percentage(!). Talk about Highway Robbery.

Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise.

To James Madison Fontainebleau Oct. 28 1785; The Letters of Thomas Jefferson

When the poor are paying the same percentage as the rich, when all taxes are factored in, change is needed.

It's a complete lie that this is happening.

But even if it was happening, in America the idea is that you get to keep most of your income. The percentage should be so small that it doesn't even matter.

As I thought. Cons just can’t accept the truth.

 

[gipper]

It is truly sad that average Americans fail to see the fraud being committed against them, with this absurd wealth inequality.

Do they really think the 1% deserve socialism, but the poor get rigged individualism?

Your complaint falls on deaf ears because you refuse to separate taxes. There are different taxes for different things. Nearly half of our country pays no income taxes while the top 20% pay close to 90% of all collected income taxes. and yet, people think they should be paying even more than 88%. So how much more should they be paying? Because when I ask people that question, nobody can come up with a straight answer.

You are stuck on income taxes, and refusing to look at all taxes. Are you stupid?

 

[Slade3200]

Ok, but our national debt is very different than a credit card. Interest on debt amounts
Our national debt is nothing like a credit card debt. It is the mechanism in which we manage our economy and sovereign currency. The debt that we owe is largely owed to us the public (citizens, businesses, and banks) through treasury bills and bonds. If we paid it all back at once then we would be injecting Trillions of dollars back into our own Economy and inflation would wipe us out. Its a game of monopoly based on borrowing and spending.... Yes very different than a household budget or credit card bill. If you're thinking of it as a Visa bill then I suggest you do a little more research on what the national debt actually is.

Nope. You are conflating two different lumps of money.
1. The $23T National Debt what Treasury funds thru borrowing to pay for the $4T federal budget.
2. The Federal Reserve Balance Sheet, currently at $4.8T. Federal Reserve Board - Recent balance sheet trends
View attachment 308746

The Federal Reserve manages the interest rates and money supply to target 2% inflation and full employment.

My analogy to a Visa bill is only showing what happens when you keep borrowing and borrowing and the interest payments ruin your finances.

So what exactly are you comparing to the VISA bill?

1. The $23T Debt is analogous to a maxed out Visa card balance where all you can afford to pay is the interest, you can never pay down the debt.
2. A much better financial situation is "pay as you go" every month so you are not paying interest on the borrowed money balance.

With a credit card bill the best solution is to eventually pay it off over time. Do you think it would be a good thing to pay off the US National Debt until it is all paid off?

Paying off the National Debt is a major debate. I'd be happy not adding to it and paying it down slowly over time.
The "good thing" is not paying $450b a year in interest when we only spend $4T to run the government. We could do a lot with that $450b that we pay in interest.

That “interest” is money we are paying back to ourselves for investing. You realize that right? Go right back out into the economy then cycles back in.

Also want to point out that if you slowly payoff the debt by running surpluses then what your are doing is removing money from the economy. So as the population increases the money decreases. Do you know what that would result in?

 

[Slade3200]

Nope. You are conflating two different lumps of money.
1. The $23T National Debt what Treasury funds thru borrowing to pay for the $4T federal budget.
2. The Federal Reserve Balance Sheet, currently at $4.8T. Federal Reserve Board - Recent balance sheet trends
View attachment 308746

The Federal Reserve manages the interest rates and money supply to target 2% inflation and full employment.

My analogy to a Visa bill is only showing what happens when you keep borrowing and borrowing and the interest payments ruin your finances.

So what exactly are you comparing to the VISA bill?

1. The $23T Debt is analogous to a maxed out Visa card balance where all you can afford to pay is the interest, you can never pay down the debt.
2. A much better financial situation is "pay as you go" every month so you are not paying interest on the borrowed money balance.

With a credit card bill the best solution is to eventually pay it off over time. Do you think it would be a good thing to pay off the US National Debt until it is all paid off?

Paying off the National Debt is a major debate. I'd be happy not adding to it and paying it down slowly over time.
The "good thing" is not paying $450b a year in interest when we only spend $4T to run the government. We could do a lot with that $450b that we pay in interest.

The only way to do that is to increase taxes, lower spending, or both. The problem is, both would have a negative effect on our economy.

It's like Walter E Williams once asked: What if I decided to run for Congress, and my platform would be, I will bring no money back to our state, how many of you would actually vote for me?

Our social programs are exemplified by my Raccoon theory. You see a raccoon digging around in your garbage, so in sympathy, you go inside the house and get that quarter ham on a bone you were going to throw out at the end of the week anyhow. The animal eats in delight. Now give it about 20 seconds, and try to take that ham bone back and see what happens to you.

Democrats are well aware of my raccoon theory. That's why they want to keep starting more social programs. They know once instituted, it will be impossible for Democrats or Republicans to remove them--at least not without getting your hand all bit up.

That’s a good analogy but could use some improvement... welfare programs are not juicy ham on the bone, they are licking the can of week old tuna getting cut by the metal as you try not to vomit while you eat. They give enough to get by but many still starve. While I don’t suggest we give the raccoons juicy ham bones im ok will something better than the tuna... they will still go out looking for the ham

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So what exactly are you comparing to the VISA bill?

1. The $23T Debt is analogous to a maxed out Visa card balance where all you can afford to pay is the interest, you can never pay down the debt.
2. A much better financial situation is "pay as you go" every month so you are not paying interest on the borrowed money balance.

With a credit card bill the best solution is to eventually pay it off over time. Do you think it would be a good thing to pay off the US National Debt until it is all paid off?

Paying off the National Debt is a major debate. I'd be happy not adding to it and paying it down slowly over time.
The "good thing" is not paying $450b a year in interest when we only spend $4T to run the government. We could do a lot with that $450b that we pay in interest.

The only way to do that is to increase taxes, lower spending, or both. The problem is, both would have a negative effect on our economy.

It's like Walter E Williams once asked: What if I decided to run for Congress, and my platform would be, I will bring no money back to our state, how many of you would actually vote for me?

Our social programs are exemplified by my Raccoon theory. You see a raccoon digging around in your garbage, so in sympathy, you go inside the house and get that quarter ham on a bone you were going to throw out at the end of the week anyhow. The animal eats in delight. Now give it about 20 seconds, and try to take that ham bone back and see what happens to you.

Democrats are well aware of my raccoon theory. That's why they want to keep starting more social programs. They know once instituted, it will be impossible for Democrats or Republicans to remove them--at least not without getting your hand all bit up.

That’s a good analogy but could use some improvement... welfare programs are not juicy ham on the bone, they are licking the can of week old tuna getting cut by the metal as you try not to vomit while you eat. They give enough to get by but many still starve. While I don’t suggest we give the raccoons juicy ham bones im ok will something better than the tuna... they will still go out looking for the ham

Studies have found that people who use all available forms of welfare make out better than working folks when you include the tax they pay on their earnings. Being on welfare is a choice for many of the people abusing the system.

A prime example of that is what they did in Maine a few years back. We were long out of the recession, the economy was doing okay, so Maine came out with Food Stamp requirements to receive them. Mind you, this only applied to people with no dependents. They were not that tough either.

* Must be working at least 20 hours a week.
* Must be enrolled in a vocational program for job training.
* Must volunteer 20 hours a month.

Now if you agreed to do any one of these three things, the state would allow you to continue being on the SNAP's program. But you know what actually happened? Most of those people decided they were not that hungry. They dropped out of the SNAP's program.

Other Republican led states started doing the same thing, and got similar results.

 

[kyzr]

Nope. You are conflating two different lumps of money.
1. The $23T National Debt what Treasury funds thru borrowing to pay for the $4T federal budget.
2. The Federal Reserve Balance Sheet, currently at $4.8T. Federal Reserve Board - Recent balance sheet trends
View attachment 308746

The Federal Reserve manages the interest rates and money supply to target 2% inflation and full employment.

My analogy to a Visa bill is only showing what happens when you keep borrowing and borrowing and the interest payments ruin your finances.

So what exactly are you comparing to the VISA bill?

1. The $23T Debt is analogous to a maxed out Visa card balance where all you can afford to pay is the interest, you can never pay down the debt.
2. A much better financial situation is "pay as you go" every month so you are not paying interest on the borrowed money balance.

With a credit card bill the best solution is to eventually pay it off over time. Do you think it would be a good thing to pay off the US National Debt until it is all paid off?

Paying off the National Debt is a major debate. I'd be happy not adding to it and paying it down slowly over time.
The "good thing" is not paying $450b a year in interest when we only spend $4T to run the government. We could do a lot with that $450b that we pay in interest.

The only way to do that is to increase taxes, lower spending, or both. The problem is, both would have a negative effect on our economy.

It's like Walter E Williams once asked: What if I decided to run for Congress, and my platform would be, I will bring no money back to our state, how many of you would actually vote for me?

Our social programs are exemplified by my Raccoon theory. You see a raccoon digging around in your garbage, so in sympathy, you go inside the house and get that quarter ham on a bone you were going to throw out at the end of the week anyhow. The animal eats in delight. Now give it about 20 seconds, and try to take that ham bone back and see what happens to you.

Democrats are well aware of my raccoon theory. That's why they want to keep starting more social programs. They know once instituted, it will be impossible for Democrats or Republicans to remove them--at least not without getting your hand all bit up.

The Debt Bomb would also have a negative effect on the economy. Pick your poison, the Debt Bomb, or higher taxes and less spending.

Please list the "social programs" your raccoons could live without, Welfare, Medicare, Food Stamps (SNAP), farm subsidies, foreign aid?
See post #23 for how I would cut spending and raise taxes to start paying down the Debt. The economy would be fine.