Zone1 Tax the Rich! Make them Pay their Fair Share!

Grumblenuts said:
You just keep typing shit and hoping it's cogent.

Don't you.
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You are the one who wants to punish the rich. I told you how to do it. (Stop buying their products and services.)

You told me to stop buying them, too.

Why would I do that?

I'm not trying to "punish the rich."

The 'cogent' part that obviously sailed over your head is that by NOT buying the products and services from "the rich," you are also depleting the taxes that "the rich" pay.

Still confused?
 
Chuz Life said:
A couple of years ago, at a family function (graduation party), the subject of taxation came up. It wasn't me that brought it up, but I did make the mistake of kicking the hornets' nest.

The subject was mostly about the economy and Trump (again, it wasn't me), and one of my in-laws said something about "tax cuts for the rich," or "the rich not paying their fair share."

I wanted a clear answer and explanation for how to know or calculate what "their fair share" should be. That's all.

You would have thought I threatened them with a gun or something.

Needless to say, I never got an answer.

In my view, each and every citizens "tax burden" should initially be the same dollar amount. Thereafter, there should be taxes based on usage. For example, if you have a trucking company with 200 trucks running up and down the road every day.

My reasoning goes like this.

If Trump, Musk, or any other Billionaire were standing in line to buy a gallon of milk at the grocery store, should their cost for their gallon of milk be exponentially higher than what I pay, just because they have and make more money than I do?

In my view, fairness means we all pay the same.

Change My Mind.
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gladly. :p
pricing ain't fair, therefore taxation should not be either.
 
BULLDOG said:
Great idea if you change the fact that the top 1% of earners receive more than the bottom 60% in tax breaks and grants.
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Why would the top 1% get tax breaks? Maybe it has a lot to do with how much they pay in taxes in the first place.

And what gives us (as represented by a Congress) the right to determine how much more a rich person “should” pay just because that “rich” person earned more? I jealousy a valid governmental basis?

In some limited ways, I can sort of buy the notion of a slightly “progressive” income set of income tax rates. Why? Because a rich family can deal with a larger loss of their income in graduated taxes since they will still have more left over once it’s paid.

I don’t consider it fair or appropriate to seize more from a taxpayer on the basis that he earns a lot more. But I can at least see how it tends to hurt them less.

But if we taxed only what the people BUY per year (such as by a national flat rate sales tax), the greater haul from the wealthy would become more a function of what they spend.

It isn’t going to happen. But that’s what this country needs. Abolish the income tax (flat rate or “progressive” rates) altogether. Require the government to set a budget. Use that as the basis for determining how much tax money they will need to cover it (and pay down existing debt). And set one damn national sales tax rate for everything but food and heating fuel for their homes.
 
there4eyeM said:
It said nothing about taxes. If anything, the post infers that, lacking intelligent concessions on the part of the absurdly "rich" minority, other means of addressing the situation will be employed. Taxes would be one of the more gentle forms.
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Absurdly rich is subjective. To a segment of the population, you might be considered 'absurdly rich.' I agree with the OP, after paying an equal percentage of income (which really isn't fair), a person should be charged by their usage. I believe a more fair way is to split the budget into the number of taxpayers and each taxpayer pay their equal share of that budget. How's that?
 
Concerned American said:
Absurdly rich is subjective. To a segment of the population, you might be considered 'absurdly rich.' I agree with the OP, after paying an equal percentage of income (which really isn't fair), a person should be charged by their usage. I believe a more fair way is to split the budget into the number of taxpayers and each taxpayer pay their equal share of that budget. How's that?
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Makes no sense. What an equal share
 
WorldWatcher said:
Everyone thinks of "Federal Income Taxes" in threads like these.

The real question isn't "who pays more taxes?". The real question is "what is the overall effective tax burden as a percentage of income?"

Why is this question important, because it examines not how much a person pays in taxes as a dollar amount, which is misleading because different people make different amounts of dollars. It asks the question based on "burden", but not just Federal Income Tax burden, but total burden. As individuals move up the "wealth" ladder, they gain access to increased resources where small percentages of income HAVE to be used for basic consumables (basic shelter, food, clothing, etc.) and more resources become available for both "investment" increasing wealth even further or "luxuaries". One such "resource" is the ability to generate "capital gains" income at "tax rates" significantly lower then the "income rate" - now don't lock in on this one thing. It's an example of the sympton, not the cause.

When looking at total tax burden as a function of income:
  • All income has to be counted (Taxable Income, Capital Gains Income, Interest, Dividents, Investments, etc.)
  • Published Federal Tax Rate (Gross)
  • Effective Federal Tax Rate (After dedeuctions, credits, loopholes, etc.)
  • Published and Effective State Tax rates
  • Property Tax (Land)
  • Property Tax (Non-land)
  • Sales Tax
  • Embedded Taxes (local, state, federal)

Embedded taxes are those taxes, as a function of business, that become party of the cost equation for determing final sale price. There are two types of embedded taxes:
  • INDIRECT: These are taxes that the business paid as part of bringing a product to market. Business taxes, employer portion of FICA, workers compensation, import taxes (tarriffs) on materials and goods needed, etc.
  • DIRECT: Local, State, Federal - taxes places on a good or service paid directly by the consumer as part of the transaction. For example, an additional "resturarnt tax" or "tourist tax". Then of course the example of Federal Fuel taxes which is $0.185 cents per gallon with an additional $0.001 cents (that isn't a typo) for Leaking Underground Storage Tank (LUST).

Any discussion based on "who pays more dollars", misses the point. The real question (IMHO) should be an examination of who is impacted the most by overal tax burdon - not in dollars - but as a function of overall taxes compared to overall income (i.e. percentage).

WW
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Income should have nothing to do with it. Each citizen of this country has an equal share of the benefits and they should pay an equal share of the real costs. After that, taxation should be based on usage of those resources. Anything else is socialism.
 
Care4all said:
This might help you...

albertaworker.ca

Why labour is more important than capital

If you think capital is the driving force of the economy, you might want to sit down when you read this.
albertaworker.ca albertaworker.ca

There is no capital for them to spend, without labor providing excess labor value... from which they gain their profit, gain their capital.
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What labor did these 'workers' put into the development of a product or business. Do you think your housekeeper should be paid on the basis of how much YOU earn?
 
Hafar1014 said:
Makes no sense. What an equal share
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LOL, you don't understand the word equal? If the US budget is $1T, then you owe an equal 340 millionth share. Everyone pays the same. Everyone gets the same benefits available. If you USE these benefits then you pay a charge for what you use. Taxes should be for GENERAL welfare, anything else should be paid for by USAGE. Clear enough? It's all a pipe dream because everyone is in it for themselves and they don't really care about fair, LOL, because 'That's diiiiiiifferent'
 
Concerned American said:
LOL, you don't understand the word equal? If the US budget is $1T, then you owe an equal 340 millionth share. Everyone pays the same. Everyone gets the same benefits available. If you USE these benefits then you pay a charge for what you use. Taxes should be for GENERAL welfare, anything else should be paid for by USAGE. Clear enough? It's all a pipe dream because everyone is in it for themselves and they don't really care about fair, LOL, because 'That's diiiiiiifferent'
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I contribute more than the average person. My share should be less
 
15th post
By some folks' reasoning here, the total profits of all industry should be distributed equally to all citizens. If the costs of society are to be paid the same be each individual, then all the benefits would logically have the same principle applied.
 
there4eyeM said:
By some folks' reasoning here, the total profits of all industry should be distributed equally to all citizens. If the costs of society are to be paid the same be each individual, then all the benefits would logically have the same principle applied.
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No, but the profits of an industry should be distributed more equitably with those who create them.
 
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