Support for Capitalism at a new low

[The Sage of Main Street]

IMO, it's just two different approaches to controlling the consumer herd. One by regulation and redistribution and one by bullying the competition. Either way the consumer gets screwed and freedom is "shat" upon.

Also, communism regulates starting with the supply side, controlling what people can have...while capitalism rules starting with the demand side, controlling what others can produce. If I control all cotton production in Georgia, fat chance building a business to compete with me. Conversely, if the government takes control of all cotton production and forces every business to do everything exactly the same, then there is no private ownership and no competition of any kind. There has to be competition but it has to be within the confines of certain rules.

All the World's Systems Put Inferior People in Superior Positions

How can business or the government control anything when it allows the automatic decadence of nepotism? You can't analyze the structure of a system unless you consider what materials it is made of.

This cancerous clique also determines what kind of commoners it promotes. What results from brown-nosing class-climbing through a ladder of thorns makes it a total heiristocracy.

 

[BothWings]

All the World's Systems Put Inferior People in Superior Positions

How can business or the government control anything when it allows the automatic decadence of nepotism? You can't analyze the structure of a system unless you consider what materials it is made of.

This cancerous clique also determines what kind of commoners it promotes. What results from brown-nosing class-climbing through a ladder of thorns makes it a total heiristocracy.

Every one of these regimes is unique. Has things put together in their own little ways. "Communism or socialism versus capitalism" it's just a way of simplifying things. People who try to define where one begins and the other ends are getting themselves because corporations can buy governments. And that strongly depends on what the economy and it's available resources in a given area is like already. Yeah I'd say we're on the same page on this.

 

[Leo123]

No surprise since the few own the many. No matter the economic system, there are always tiers of economic conditions.

Which Marxie cult owns you Mooncalf?

 

[Mac1958]

Business for the rating agencies giving scores to those bonds was just too good to pass up. So they gave them a stamp of approval. Perhaps more than any other reason that is how other countries were directly impacted. Financial institutions around the world seeking a high yield in a low yield environment were buying every AAA bond they could get.

If you haven't read it this is a great book on the subject.

Oh, I know the books and movies like the back of my hand. I did lectures for individual financial firms and banks on this ******* thing. Most of them didn't know the whole story. Now we're going back down that road. The Big Short is awesome, although the book and the movie may be a little too dense for most people. It really should enrage people. I'm glad you read it.

Those of us in the business knew something was broken in mortgages, there were a lot of whispers, but we had NO IDEA of the depth and breadth of this thing. And you nailed it -- many municipalities around the world bought that dogshit, largely because they trusted the AAA ratings. Who wouldn't? And the reason no one went to jail? They weren't breaking any REGULATIONS.

One of my brothers was CFO of a Southern California bank at the time. The Board tasked him with looking into getting into these things at a low level. He looked into it and told them there was no way he could manage many of these things and that they'd end up being far too risky. He'd have to reach DEEP into subprimes, and much worse (CDOs), so they dropped it.

A vast majority of Americans have no idea how close we came to the Depression or worse. Hours.

 

[Mac1958]

The banks were shorting shitty mortgage bonds?
Is that why they needed TARP loans, they were making too much money on short mortgages?

DURR

No. God damn.

Two entirely different things and two entirely different times. At THE END, when THEY ALL KNEW it was all coming undone, they were cutting their losses by unloading their SHIT on anyone who'd still fall for it. Their losses at that point were massive due to their 30x and 40x leverage. And Paulson made all the big banks take TARP, regardless of their exposure, so that some were not singled out and killed by the market.

You are a Trumpster. Your worldview is warped and perverted, especially on economics. I don't discuss this shit with you people any more, and I know I just wasted my time. You are Dunning-Kruger. I'm out of patience. Play with someone else. Dismissed.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Capitalism isn’t a very easy concept to like/support. It isn’t very warm or cuddly.

But, similar to Churchill’s quote about democracy, it’s the worst form of economy except for all those other forms that have been tried

Thing is, a capitalist system with checks and balances, with a government looking out for the people can work.

The US has capitalism with the government run by and for the capitalists.

That's the PROBLEM.

Change the electoral system to Proportional Representation and capitalism suddenly becomes less bad.

 

[Mac1958]

Thing is, a capitalist system with checks and balances, with a government looking out for the people can work.

The US has capitalism with the government run by and for the capitalists.

That's the PROBLEM.

Change the electoral system to Proportional Representation and capitalism suddenly becomes less bad.

What's so goddamn frustrating about this is that fixing it and creating proper & efficient guardrails really wouldn't be that difficult.

But America just can't fix big problems in our current condition.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What's so goddamn frustrating about this is that fixing it and creating proper & efficient guardrails really wouldn't be that difficult.

But America just can't fix big problems in our current condition.

Yep, the rich don't want to fix problems, they want to make money for themselves. And that's how countries and empires fall

 

[elektra]

I forgot to apply the translation of the title of the thread, here it is;

democrat's will to work at all time low

 

[22lcidw]

What's so goddamn frustrating about this is that fixing it and creating proper & efficient guardrails really wouldn't be that difficult.

But America just can't fix big problems in our current condition.

Economics are not that easy.

 

[elektra]

Economics are not that easy.

Mac is here to denigrate, nothing more

 

[Dorian Mode]

Thing is, a capitalist system with checks and balances, with a government looking out for the people can work.

The US has capitalism with the government run by and for the capitalists.

That's the PROBLEM.

Change the electoral system to Proportional Representation and capitalism suddenly becomes less bad.

Proportional representation could be interesting but extremely difficult to manage. There is another way to solve the PROBLEM of state capitalism, and that is to decentralize power as mush as possible. Most of the PROBLEMS we have today are due to the fact that we concentrated too much power in the federal govt. It's time to decentralize as much power as possible back to the states. And then inside the state we should decentralize power as much as possible to the counties. And then to the cities and towns. When you decentralize power closer to the people the people benefit more, and it is so much harder for Big Money corruption to take down the entire country. And, as a bonus, democracy increases greatly as local governments are forced to be much more responsive to the people instead of Big Corporation interests.

 

[BluesLegend]

Support for Capitalism at a new low​

Support for your fake ass socialist moocher threads even lower.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Proportional representation could be interesting but extremely difficult to manage. There is another way to solve the PROBLEM of state capitalism, and that is to decentralize power as mush as possible. Most of the PROBLEMS we have today are due to the fact that we concentrated too much power in the federal govt. It's time to decentralize as much power as possible back to the states. And then inside the state we should decentralize power as much as possible to the counties. And then to the cities and towns. When you decentralize power closer to the people the people benefit more, and it is so much harder for Big Money corruption to take down the entire country. And, as a bonus, democracy increases greatly as local governments are forced to be much more responsive to the people instead of Big Corporation interests.

Well, the Germans can manage it, the Danes can manage it, in fact many countries manage to manage it, why not the USA?

 

[Dorian Mode]

Well, the Germans can manage it, the Danes can manage it, in fact many countries manage to manage it, why not the USA?

America has two entrenched parties that will never allow it. Proportional representation would make it easy for one or more independent parties to enter and gain power in the government. Take Switzerland for example, with a population of just 9 million.. They have a form of proportional representation but they also have more than 20 political parties and power is decentralized into 26 very independent cantons. It's no wonder Switzerland has the highest degree of democracy, and one of the highest standards of living on the planet. Imagine that, 20 parties for just 9 million people. America should have well over a 100 parties, but only has two. Why is that?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So, government runs up the largest debt in human history with inflation to boot that always accompanies it and it is the fault of free trade.

Sounds about right.

It’s staggering

 

[frigidweirdo]

America has two entrenched parties that will never allow it. Proportional representation would make it easy for one or more independent parties to enter and gain power in the government. Take Switzerland for example, with a population of just 9 million.. They have a form of proportional representation but they also have more than 20 political parties and power is decentralized into 26 very independent cantons. It's no wonder Switzerland has the highest degree of democracy, and one of the highest standards of living on the planet. Imagine that, 20 parties for just 9 million people. America should have well over a 100 parties, but only has two. Why is that?

Yes, I'm very aware of why the US does not have PR, and the parties don't allow it.

So what, you as an individual American accept your place as slave to the system? You can't stand up and push for something that will make your country better?

Yes, Switzerland they have 10 parties, however four of those parties have one or two seats and are fairly insignificant. The two biggest parties had more than 50% of the seats, if they chose to have a coalition, then that could have happened.

In Germany they have a 5% cut off. Meaning if you get 5% of the votes you get seats and if you don't, you don't get any seats from PR (you can still get seats from FPTP, but that's mainly for the two main parties).

In Denmark they have a 2% cut off. They have about 10 political parties.

So, there are solutions to reducing the number of political parties, but like in Switzerland, you'll usually have about 6 viable parties that could enter government. In Denmark they have 12 parties with 5 seats or more. However you tend to have parties that are a bit similar to each other and will form coalitions together. But it also makes politicians know they need to work together, because they'll never get a majority on their own and become like... I don't know, Trump and the Republicans.

 

[fncceo]

Support for Capitalism

The true irony here is that you don't have to support Capitalism, it exists in nature whether you support it or not. It's as integral to human society as Oxygen is to breathing.

Even in the most oppressive Socialist states, the ability to buy and sell on an open market, where price is controlled by that market, is always there. Even where it exists against the will of the state, everyone in that state from the plebs to the highest party members will avail themselves of it to get those goods the state can't or won't provide.

 

[elektra]

Well, the Germans can manage it, the Danes can manage it, in fact many countries manage to manage it, why not the USA?

All those countries leech off our economy, capitalism.

Germany can not do what we do, at all.
Danes cant do what we do.

What do we do, create wealth for billions, provide homes for 100's of millions, feed billions, go to Mars, provide a stable infrastructure for corporations leaving the poverty of Europe

 

[Dorian Mode]

So, there are solutions to reducing the number of political parties, but like in Switzerland, you'll usually have about 6 viable parties that could enter government. In Denmark they have 12 parties with 5 seats or more. However you tend to have parties that are a bit similar to each other and will form coalitions together. But it also makes politicians know they need to work together, because they'll never get a majority on their own and become like... I don't know, Trump and the Republicans.

Or become like... I don't know, The Establishment and the Democraps. The beauty of decentralization and many parties is that not one party can bring down the entire country. I'm all for it, are you? Can you live without the democraps controlling everything in every citizen's life and allowing 10 other parties to compete with your beloved establishment democraps who want to run the country for the benefit of the establishment and its benefactors? Do you like polarized comments? The two parties are loving how polarized the electorate has become because it guarantees their survival and no other significant competition. It means all they have to do is give the people political theater to keep them distracted while they fight behind the scenes for more share of Big Money.