Stimulus Checks 2? Or "Go Forth and DIE!"

[Toddsterpatriot]

It might interest you to know that if we had universal health care, from what we would save on such pointless bureaucracy, it alone would pay for around half of what universal health care costs.

Of course, because pointless government bureaucracy is much cheaper than pointless private bureaucracy......DURR

Do you enjoy being stupid? With private bureaucracy, they can and have gotten away with murder! To paraphrase Calvin Coolidge, "The business of government IS business." But with something run by the government, they can be held more accountable. Because those in office can be voted out of office. But votes mean nothing to big business.

Do you enjoy being stupid?

Stop mumbling to yourself.

But with something run by the government, they can be held more accountable.

Exactly! When the DMV or the IRS sucks, a letter to your politicians can fix the problem.....quickly!

But votes mean nothing to big business.

And neither do the dollars of their customers. That's why Sears and JCPenny are doing so well.

 

[Andylusion]

Its time to get back to work. The virus is waning if we can keep it going down.
The summer heat is almost here. Lets hope the virus keeps slowing, and slowing, and slowing....
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From what I have been seeing on the news, many states are reopening even though the cases of coronavirus is still increasing. Also, how many instances of coronavirus in this country did it take to get the whole ball rolling to begin with. 2 or 3?

Then why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
Its going down, with 1,417,350 US cases, how can it go down with so many active cases, not just 1 or 2?

Because of quarantine. With the 2 or 3 who got the whole plague rolling here, there was no quarantine.

Yes there most certainly was a quarantine here, for travelers from China, but not from Europe?!
Quarantine? Not all of the 1.4m are quarantined, so why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
You did not answer this question: What's a worse condition, 1.4m cases or a few?
We have the 1.4m now and the number of cases is going down, why? How can that be?

President Chump just didn't handle things well. And he still isn't.

Really? So what should he have done? I'll show you why he couldn't or didn't.

Well, president Chump could have started out by not calling the coronavirus a hoax at the beginning.

He didn't call it a hoax, he called what Democrats were trying to do with it another one of their hoaxes. Of course this was before we had any idea how this thing would impact us. But lets say he never made that statement. How would that have changed our current plight?

He called it a hoax. Next, it would have changed our current plight by taking it seriously from the beginning. And there would be over 30,000 fewer dead people.

President Trump is a former businessman, not a former scientist or medical expert. He took the advice from our various health agencies and his medical team to make decisions. Even in late February, Dr. Fauci made a public statement that this virus was nothing of great concern; go out and live life as you always have, and there is no need to use gloves or masks.

When the WHO made a public statement about their concern of this virus in late January, President Trump took action the next day. No, he didn't shutdown the country, but he did take a few precautionary measures, and increased those measures as new information because available, and his team and agencies were able to form a better opinion.

Today the CDC made an announcement that 35% of the Covid cases were with asymptomatic people. That means this virus likely has been with us much longer than we thought. Asymptomatic people have the virus and don't become ill because of it. However they are just as contagious as those that did get ill. That means these people were hugging their friends and family, shaking hands with strangers, drinking at bars and eating at restaurants, squeezing fruit and vegetables at their grocery store.

As for the non-asymptomatic people, the symptoms are similar to a bad cold or early flu, which a lot of people never seek medical attention for.

Therefore your theory about saving 30,000 people is your opinion, not fact.

Saving over 30,000 people with earlier action is what they said on the news last night. But admittedly, you can't always believe the news. For example, they say that Armaud Arbery was murdered. Though like it or not, president Chump started out by calling the whole thing a hoax. And it seems every step of the way, he has been dragging his feet. As for his "experts," they are on his payroll. They will basically say what they're told to say. Including the CDC. Don't believe it? Watch the documentary, "What lies upstream."

Your documentaries are not Gospel. They are trying to get you to watch their programming for profit.

Yes, if we started in September of last year, we could have saved tens of thousands of lives, but who knew what could happen back then? Trump didn't drag his feet. Our agencies are mired in red tape, and they practice these unnecessary prolonged actions that the President is not in control of.

In late February of this year, Cuomo was urging people to not worry about this silly virus. Go out, shop, dine, and carry on with your normal life. DeBlazio sent the same message to NYC residents around that same time. Piglosi was telling people to visit Chinatown. NOBODY KNEW!!!! The first two weeks of March, the House Democrats were trying to pass a bill stripping the President of his exclusive right to issue travel bans.

Bottom line is armchair quarterbacks like yourself can make any claim they desire. I always said if you want to hit todays lottery, buy tomorrows newspaper. Easier said than done.

Did you see any of those documentaries? Until you do, you can't have any kind of opinion about them. Next, nobody said anything about September. They were talking about early March.

You leftists always pull this stunt. So let me be clear up front: If I had to watch every documentary a leftists tells me to watch, watch every movie, read every book you people read, I wouldn't have time to come here and discuss politics. If you have a short article, sure, if I have time, I'll go through it. But I'm not going to spend hours and hours to reply to each and every leftist comment. You wouldn't read any book or watch any documentary I suggest either. Nobody has that kind of time.

You should listen to me. Your intellectual superior. I have no interest in steering you wrong. And you shouldn't assume I'm trying to do so. Take the documentary I mentioned called, "What lies upstream." I will tell you some of what you don't want to find out about yourself. First, companies aren't required to tell what the toxic effects of any chemical they make are. And the can lie about it! The CDC is fine with this because their leadership is appointed by the pro-business leadership of the government. Republican or democrat. Also, do you know how chemical companies get rid of their toxic waist? Basically, they flush it down the toilet! And it is perfectly legal!!! So what is the point of you having the time to say things here when all you have to speak about is shit to begin with.

Oh please, so you watch these "documentaries" and conclude they are all Gospel? WTF would make you think that? I always question what's told to me from somebody trying to make money by getting my attention, even if it's something that leans towards my political persuasion.

Facebook is loaded with conspiracy theories that after enough attention, is proven false by another entity. And as my intellectual superior, you should know by now that what you call toxic waist is spelled W-A-S-T-E, not W-A-I-S-T.

Thanks for letting me know about a typo. But as far as I can see, correcting my grammar is the best you've got. As for the conspiracy angle, they talked to the experts. People with PhD's in their particular fields. Top experts. As in there being just about no other people on the planet that may know more. You may not think so. But such people are well worth listening to.

Another documentary I mentioned to you was, "Where to invade next." Here is a piece of information from it that you can consider to be bullshit at your leisure. Apparently, Norway has the most highly educated students in the world. At the very least, they are in the top three. You might find how they accomplished this to be interesting. They eliminated homework. It seems counterintuitive. But it is a reality. In school, how much homework did you do. I didn't do any. Maybe that explains my intelligence.

Since you studied it so intensely, tell me, does Norway have anything comparable to our teachers unions? Does Norway have three months of vacation from school every year?

Somebody being an expert does not mean they are not biased. We have scientist who believe in global warming, and others who believe it's BS. We have "experts" who believe there is life on other planets, and others who do not. We have engineers who said that 911 was an inside job. Others say those people are FOS.

Being an expert doesn't mean you are always right. Speaking of which, I was never a spellcheck cop. But when somebody tires to degrade me by claiming their intellectual superioriority, the least you can do is proofread your post.

Why not watch the documentary, "Where to invade next" and find out. You would be dumbfounded, absolutely blown away by what people in European countries get that we don't. Though as Michael Moore says, things over there aren't perfect. But he's there to pick the flowers. Not the weeds. He was there to invade those countries and take back to the U.S. the spoils of his invasion. As in the good ideas. The things that have been demonstrated to work. At least over there. But maybe with out large negro and mexican population, they wouldn't work here. But it would be well worth impaling and deporting the hindrance for many other reasons. Also, I wasn't trying to degrade you. Just some of the things you talk about. Even a genius could probably be brainwashed. (But not me)

You would be dumbfounded, absolutely blown away by what people in European countries get that we don't.

A lower standard of living, smaller cars, smaller homes, a smaller economy.

They also have 8 bucks a gallon for gasoline.

But their societies weren't structures around the automobile. Unlike ours. Here, we have a lot of suburban sprawl. People live so way far out that if there was ever an EMP that killed cars, they would find it very difficult to get food.

You are putting the cart, in front of the horse.

The whole reason we have suburban sprawl.... is directly because Americans are wealthy enough to have a car, and desire to have a house farther away from the noisy crime infested inner city areas.

Yeah, their societies are less structured around automobiles....... because they couldn't afford to drive automobiles all the time.

If you take those people, and bring them to the US, where they earn more money, and pay less taxes, you what those people's from those cultures do?

They buy the biggest SUV they can, and buy a house in the suburbs.

They would do the same thing in Europe... they just can't. They can't afford it, because they are poor.

I had this couple from Laos. Escaped the communists in Laos. Talk about running through the woods, being shot at by police. Freaky stuff.

Made it to the US embassy, came to the US. Didn't know English. Had to learn English. Got training on how to do CNC work. Got jobs, making $100,000 a year. (combined).

This tiny Laos woman, bought herself, a Ford Excursion, and they bought a house in the suburbs.

I asked her if she would go back to Laos. She's wants to, because she loved the people, and the land, but if she went back, she'd be poor. The government takes all the money.

This is the reality throughout all Europe.

Why do you think the Yellow Vest protest happened? They have all that free stuff you mentioned. You know what they don't have? Money. Their poor. Because the government takes all the money. The thing that triggered the protest, was the tax hike by the government to improve social services.

They are poor. I've been there. I've seen them living in 600 sqft apartments with no air conditioning, and hanging cloths up on wires inside their 600 sqft apartment. I've seen it.

Yeah, their societies are not built around automobiles, because they can't afford automobiles. Even those that have them, can't afford to drive them.

Economically, (for instance) we ARE a third world country compared to Germany. Given their size, when it comes to the yearly value of their exports, they leave the U.S. in the dust. They have the ability to have anything they want and any size they want. But just from how their society functions, they apparently don't feel they need it.

As for the couple from Laos, who let them assholes into our country. I was watching some show one time where they were talking to people from Laos. Some of their cultural beliefs are pretty despicable compared to what White people believe. What our country should have done is leave them in the hell hole they created for themselves and train a White person to do CNC work. (Whatever that is)

Economically, (for instance) we ARE a third world country compared to Germany.

The evidence I presented, proves that your claim is false.

As for the couple from Laos, who let them assholes into our country. I was watching some show one time where they were talking to people from Laos. Some of their cultural beliefs are pretty despicable compared to what White people believe. What our country should have done is leave them in the hell hole they created for themselves and train a White person to do CNC work. (Whatever that is)

Well... we disagree on that. I'm more like Trump, in that I'm all in favor of legal immigration.

Honestly, I'm sure that white people like you describe yourself exist in society somewhere, I can't say that I've ever met any white person with the views you described.

But then again, I'm conservative, from a family of conservatives, from a church of conservatives, with conservative relatives.

In short, we're good people. I don't know people like you. So.. I would be polite, but I don't associate with people like you. I only meet people like you described yourself, on the internet. I remember some guy spouted that crap on Facebook. Don't know how he was even on my friends list, but I fixed that pretty quick.

But we're good people. We hate criminals obviously. You come here legally... only.. But if you follow our laws, I'm all for it. My last roomate was a Muslim from Bangladesh. He wanted to rent an apartment until his wife arrived. We (me and my parents together) went to his citizenship ceremony. Of course entirely legal immigration.

So no, I don't identify with people like you at all.

And I presented evidence to the contrary of yours. I told somebody around here about something I came across once. It had to do with the yearly value of the exports of the U.S. compared to Germany. Germany is a much smaller country with few natural resources. Their population is also around 81 million. The U.S. is a far larger country with a lot of arable land and many natural resources. Our population is also around 319 million people. The value of our exports for one particular year was around 1 trillion, 600 billion. For Germany it was 1 trillion, 400 million. So I am right.

You also say you support foreign scab scum. Just like president Chump. In that, you are outright evil. I have a book to suggest to you. But I doubt if you would ever read it.

We exported about $2.5 trillion last year, Germany exported $1.5 trillion.
Why does Germany suck so much?

I looked again. I found that the U.S. exported 1 trillion, 645 billion in goods. Germany exported 1 trillion, 489 billion in goods. And as I said, Germany is a far smaller country. The reason why food prices are higher in Europe is because the place doesn't have nearly as much farm land or places for cattle to graze as the U.S. Also, the total value of what Germany imports is 1 trillion, 236 billion. The total value of what the U.S. imports is 3.1 trillion. If any country sucks, it is ours.

The land being used for farming in the EU, has declined.

This is why they are importing food more and more. If I had to guess, I would wager this has to do with government interference, but that's just a guess.

Also, the total value of what Germany imports is 1 trillion, 236 billion. The total value of what the U.S. imports is 3.1 trillion. If any country sucks, it is ours.

I disagree with the way the previous conversation was going.

You and me, both own a store. I make millions. I go to your store, and I can buy everything in the store. This is because the products you sell are cheap... and I make millions.

You barely make minimum wage. When you come to my store, you can barely afford to buy one item from my store. This is because I make expensive products, and you are poor.

If we drew a line between us, and called my said Andy-Country, and your side (fittingly) Quarantine-Country.... It would look like I imported millions from you, while you imported a hundred bucks from me.

Based on what, would you claim "I suck" because I'm rich, wealthy, and can afford everything I want from others?

Imports are not a negative. In fact, they are a positive.

Rich people buy.... read Import... more from poor people, because poor people are poor, and rich people are rich.

The US buys... imports.... more from China, because the US is rich, and China is poor.

Very few wealthy countries, export more than they import, and it is usually tied to energy... natural gas, oil, and so on.

 

[Andylusion]

It might interest you to know that if we had universal health care, from what we would save on such pointless bureaucracy, it alone would pay for around half of what universal health care costs.

Of course, because pointless government bureaucracy is much cheaper than pointless private bureaucracy......DURR

Do you enjoy being stupid? With private bureaucracy, they can and have gotten away with murder! To paraphrase Calvin Coolidge, "The business of government IS business." But with something run by the government, they can be held more accountable. Because those in office can be voted out of office. But votes mean nothing to big business.

But with something run by the government, they can be held more accountable.

You are crazy.



Government services are never held accountable. I remember going to the USPS, and standing in line behind a guy, whose apparently important package containing, as best I could tell, legal documents.

The package had been lost in Missouri. (I'm in Ohio). The guy asked if he could get a track on the package. "I'm sorry sir we don't do that". Could he call the fascility in Missouri to get it expedited? "I'm sorry sir, you can't upgrade once shipped". Could he get a curious to pick the package up? "Sorry sir, we can't release a package until it is delivered." Could he simply call the manager at that facility and talk to him? "Sorry, we don't do that". He was acting like he should have been a valued customer, when he was not at FedEx.

While this half hour long conversation is going on, there is a line behind me, going to the door of the Post Office. Meanwhile, there 7 stations.... and only this 1 guy is working... and there are two employees of the Post Office against the wall, talking to each other.

That's government being held accountable? For what?

I went to a government run clinic here in Columbus Ohio. It was August, and it was hot. I walked into the lobby, to find the place packed. No air conditioning. I sat down on one of the few empty chairs, and tilted to the left. The Chair was broken. On the table in front of me, was half of the top cover of a magazine long gone. Bits of paper, from People Magazine. The room was oddly dim, I looked up and half the lights were out, and then noticed that the hung ceiling had mold and water spots on nearly all of them. The TV in the corner was like something out of a history channel show. It appeared to be an old 12" Black and White CRT. It looked like it had a digital to analog tuner.

But that's ok, because you couldn't hear anything anyway over the crying and coughing, and noise of the lobby.

The "doctor" came out and went to lunch. In a T-shirt and baseball cap. He acknowledged no one, said nothing, and left.

I waited there for an hour, before being seen. I was there only for a drug test. Yet even the drug test, was over an hour, because the nurse basically ignored me, doing something else, even after I was brought back. She was rude, and nearly insulting.

As I left the facility, I realized that during my almost 2 hours of being there, that not a single person in the entire lobby had been called back.

This is government accountability?

Where? Where is government accountability?

 

[Andylusion]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

Where does the money come from????

The same place it comes from now. Pretend land. Our fiat currency is probably over 20 trillion in debt. It doesn't matter if it is 40 trillion. Though before the coronavirus thing hit, the U.S. was paying around 420 billion dollars a year just on the interest of our national debt. Which is basically money flushed down the toilet. And we just burrow more money to pay that. We need to just tell whoever we owe interest to to suck it! Apart from the national debt, we also have around 61 trillion worth of unfunded obligations. And I don't want to split the hair between a debt and an obligation.

We need to just tell whoever we owe interest to to suck it!

But you want to borrow more money for handouts to you?

You're not real bright, are you?

Usury is for suckers and slaves.

Well ok....

But understand that if you eliminate Usury, then you are not going to borrow anymore.

That means if you don't have money for a car, then you simply don't get a car.

And if there isn't money for Social Security, then there is no Social Security.

If you don't have money for education, then you simply don't get education.

If there is no money for Medicare, then you simply don't get Medicare.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the concept of banning Usury. But you need to understand what that means. No credit cards. If you want to go out to eat, because some friends came into town unexpected, and you don't have money.... you don't go out to eat.

Are you ok with this?

You don't need usury to have any of that. When inflation heats up, the fed increases interests payments. If the economy is doing poorly, the fed nearly eliminates interest payments-usury.

Without Usury, it does not matter what the Fed does.... if you don't have the money to buy something... then you are not going to be able to buy it. No matter what the Fed does.

You don't make any sense.

If you want to buy a house.... and there is no Usury... why would anyone lend you the money to buy a house? They wouldn't.

Doesn't matter what the Fed does. Why would I loan you $100,000 to buy a house, if I can't earn a profit off of loaning you the money? Without Usury, I would get back $100,000 on my $100,000 loan.

Why would I do this? I wouldn't.

If I'm a bank, I'm not going to give you a mortgage, because why would I do something that earns me nothing? Has nothing to do with the Fed. Fed has zero influence on this choice.

I'm simply not going to loan you the money. It would be better for me to invest that $100,000 in stocks. At least with stocks I'll get a return on my investment.

No Usury, means no money for you. If you don't have the cash, you don't get the stuff.

If you are ok with that, so am I. I'm all for banning Usury. But you need to understand... no house unless you have cash. No car unless you have cash. Doesn't matter what the Fed does. No one is going to loan you money, if they can't make a profit.

Face it. Capitalism is a farce. Everything should be provided by the government. Taking care of the people is their job. (At least, it should be) Not kissing hands and shaking babies. Housing, health care, education and transportation should be free. Free Free FREEEEEEEEEE!!!! Healthcare should apply equally to anybody. But as far as everything else goes, it would have to depend on your station in life. Those who are doctors or scientists for example should have better housing and transportation than a laborer. In return, people give their labor to support society.

In my town they have a plan to make the bridges toll bridges. In other words, privatize them. But those people are in it to make a profit. If you want something done as cheaply as possible, providing companies with profit isn't the way to go. No doubt one way they would do it is by paying their workers less and giving them fewer benefits than a city worker would get. Which is a race to the bottom. Screw that.

Who would work? Why work? Why invent? Why produce? Why research? Why do anything but sit around?

Your opinion of humanity is delusional. People are inventive. Producing gives them a sense of pride and worth.

Nah, give me what I want, new car, new motorhome, new home, all the money I want, free healthcare, free food, free electric, free campsites when I travel. Hell, if you can get it why not me? I’ve worked hard all my life. The government owes me tons!

What if you were given all those things. But for a price. That price being that you do whatever part you can in seeing to it that everybody else can receive those things too. (Which wouldn't mean working people to death) Would you sign on for that? Or are you so brainwashed that you think that greed and accumulating as much as you can at any negative cost to society is the best option for society.

Greed goes both ways, you want to exploit people and tell them what they can make.

No. Greed goes one way. The more you have, the more you want. Also, study's have shown that the more poor a person is, the more honest they are likely to be. Another thing is that part of the way people make money in this country is in trying to convince others that they want something that they don't really need. This too is driven by greed. It shouldn't be that way. And in at least the next 50 years, it won't be. Because most of humanity and the rest of life on this planet will be extinct due to human caused global warming. Some say it will be within the next 20 years.

No. Greed goes one way. The more you have, the more you want.

No. You are wrong. In fact, the people who earn the most, are most likely to give it away.

It's the people who are poor, that try and end up miserly and pinching every single penny.

Another thing is that part of the way people make money in this country is in trying to convince others that they want something that they don't really need. This too is driven by greed.

Funny, because I saw millions of dollars spent trying to convince everyone, that we wanted universal government run health care. I saw millions spent by Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, and numerous others, that we wanted those idiots in office.

Must be all greedy bastards then.

This is dumb argument. That's retarded. I don't know what you did for a living, but my guess is your paycheck was tied to a marketing campaign somewhere. Every wage I earned in my life, was tied to marketing on something.

And in at least the next 50 years, it won't be.

Soviets said the same thing. So did Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. Not convincing me.

Because most of humanity and the rest of life on this planet will be extinct due to human caused global warming. Some say it will be within the next 20 years.

And there you have it. We're back to John Maynard Keynes "in the long run, we're all dead".

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Look, if the world is going to end anyway, then what difference does it make if you get free education?

Dumb dumb dumb.

You must be high. If the wealthy gave their money away, they wouldn't have it to begin with. But I know what you're getting at. Who they leave their money to after they die. Well for any that might, chances are that many would do the types of things that Andrew Carnegie did. Building Carnegie Hall and other monuments to his vanity. And the reason why he could do so it because he had far more money than he needed. What I call somebody who has far more than they need is a pig.

Next, if you don't have pennys, what is there to pinch. On the other hand, I heard of a wealthy miserly woman. She had millions. But wouldn't pay for an operation that her son needed.

Next, people who didn't want universal health care spent far more. Also, some years ago there were some asshole tea party protesters across the street who were protesting against universal health care. At the end of the line where they had their cars parked, there were two people sitting in the back of their car promoting universal health care. Being so cool, I decided to go over and talk to them. I brought up to one of them how some insurance companies (though probably all) will have workers who's whole job is to dig up bullshit from the past of those they insure and use it as a reason to deny them coverage. Causing those people pain, suffering and death. As it turned out, the person I was talking to worked at an insurance company himself. And that was his job there. No doubt he was protesting for universal health care because he had a guilty conscience.

Also, I had the same sort of thing happen to me once. I got hit by a car in Florida. I was on a motorcycle stopped at a light and was hit from behind. Everybody was amazed that I survived. For the guy that hit me, his insurance dug up some bullshit from his past and denied him coverage. Leaving me fucked.

It might interest you to know that if we had universal health care, from what we would save on such pointless bureaucracy, it alone would pay for around half of what universal health care costs. And as I was saying to someone else, as a percentage of various countries GDP, the U.S. pays more and gets less than what other developed countries pay as a percentage of their GDP. I even remember hearing of some drug company here in the U.S. that made a particular drug that had been around for a long time. They raised the price of it by 100,000%! Need I go on.

If the wealthy gave their money away, they wouldn't have it to begin with.

There are many ways to give away money, that doesn't involve you becoming poor.

That's a dumb comment. Say I own a business, and my business generates $200,000 in profit for me.

I could give away $100,000 a year, every single year, and still be massively wealthy. In fact, not only could I give away $100,000 a year, but I could invest some of the remaining, and increase my net worth year over year, while still being extremely charitable.

Prove to me, you at least have some amount of intelligence at all, and stop saying ridiculously stupid comments. Think before you type, sir. Dumb statement. Very dumb.

What I call somebody who has far more than they need is a pig.

Just remember this.... to everyone in the world... you are the pig. You have far more than you need.

"more than they need" is subjective, and to 99% of this planet, you are the wealthy pig hording everything.

On the other hand, I heard of a wealthy miserly woman. She had millions. But wouldn't pay for an operation that her son needed.

Yes, and that is one example from how many millions on millions of wealthy people in this country?

We all know there are crazy people. Try not to judge everyone, based on the actions of the very few.

Next, people who didn't want universal health care spent far more.

Factually untrue. The most expensive plan at my multinational company of thousands on thousands of employees, was $350/month. That's the high end expensive family plan.

Universal health care is going to cost double our taxes. At the low end, it will cost a 12% increase in taxes, from the lowest tax bracket up.

Let's take a median income of $40,000 a year. 20% in taxes to pay for Universal Health care, would be $8,000 or $666 a month. The high end of the middle class would be around $60,000 a year, and that would cost $12,000 a year, or $1,000 a month. I don't know anyone paying that much for insurance.

I personally have never paid more than $200 a month for insurance anywhere.

Saying Universal Health care will cost less than our current system... is just factually wrong. Ridiculous honestly. Again, when you look at Europe, you don't see anyone anywhere in Europe that is paying less than we are. Not one. They all pay more... much more.

Again, marginal tax rate for someone earning $37,000 in the US is 22%. In the EU, it's 49%. More than double. And they earn less money than we do. They earn less, because of their tax and social systems. So they earn much less, and keep less of the less they earn.

And you think we'll end up better off using their system? You are crazy.

No doubt he was protesting for universal health care because he had a guilty conscience.

No. Insurance stand to make big money working with the government. The more you involve government with insurance companies, the more the insurance companies are going to make.

Free-markets make monopolies hard, because anyone can compete, and then you have to compete on services and prices. Competition makes life hard. You can't charge too much, or the customers leave. You can't save money by cutting services, or the customers leave. You have to constantly be checking to see where you are in the market, constantly checking your customer base to see if they are happy, and there is always a new competitor around the corner.

But with government, it is just like the BMV, and the Post Office, you can treat people like crap, and it doesn't affect you, because your money comes from government.

And generally you are shield by government when things go badly. Look at Franklin Raines. He was caught clearly fudging the numbers at Fannie Mae. Clear corruption, by fabricating profits, to trigger executive bonuses.

What happened to him? Nothing. We the tax payers paid for the entire failure of Fannie Mae, and Franklin Raines, didn't even go to trial for clear fraud, let alone prison.

Trust me, the biggest insurance companies are all completely in favor of Universal Health Care. They know they are going to make billions in profit, while being able to treat their customers like crap, and nothing will happen to them, because they'll have the backing of government.

This is why I've said hundreds of times, the socialists and left-wingers are the biggest pawns of big business there is. All the big companies have you people, wrapped around their figure, dancing to their tune, so they can make billions of dollars while we suffer... and you promote this to your own death.

 

[quarantine]

I heard once that in California, to live an average middle class lifestyle, you would need to earn $50.00 an hour. And I don't imagine it's a hell of a lot different in the rest of the states. But most people don't make anywhere near that. Most people live from paycheck to paycheck.

You don't need near 50 bucks an hour to live here in Ohio and in most other non-blue states. It's not the same everywhere. As I mentioned earlier, in the winter time when weather is crappy, I spend a lot of time watching HGTV. In a deep blue state, an average home is about 800K give or take. Then they show episodes of what 800K can buy you in Montana. You can own a ski resort out there.

Years ago I rented one of my units to a kid from Buffalo NY. At the time, I charged him 400 dollars a month for rent.......well, not him, but his mother since he was going to school and didn't have a job. I couldn't give him a lease with no job.

Anyway, he told me that if I could take the rental property, and move them to the outskirts of NYC, I could get four times the amount of rent I was charging here, and have a waiting list to boot because the price would still be so cheap.

Poverty is rife here in the U.S. I doubt if it is in most of Europe. More babies die here. They have longer lifespans. These things are facts. All you have to offer is some crap about some German person why prefers to live here. That isn't good enough.

Your facts are not really facts at all. First off, poverty is subjective. Yes, government has a line what they consider poverty, but what is really poor? Most of our poor have all the amenities that working people have: television, air conditioning, microwave, video games, and many of them have or had children they could never afford in the first place. For crying out loud, our so-called poor have cell phones!

Lifespan is based on many things, not just healthcare. In fact, most of the people who die naturally are on Medicare. We have a terrible obesity problem in this country. We also have a big drug problem on top of that which claims over 100,000 lives every year--mostly young people. Along with recreational narcotics are drug deals that go bad so often, and cause many more deaths of younger people. We drive automobiles more than a lot of places too. Tens of thousands of American lives are lost every year on the road.

American women generally are career women. By the time they graduate college, get a job and repay their school loans, are financially secure enough to buy or rent a home and raise a family, they are well into their 30's by then in many cases. Because they are career women trying to get ahead in the rat race, they often skip prenatal care.

The older you are having children, the higher risks you take of a child being still born or with medical problems that causes death. Add to that the other things, such as again, the obesity factor, illegal narcotics, then yes, we will have a higher rate of babies dying.

I stand by what I say. Though I have never been to California, the place is mostly desert. How expensive can it be to live in a desert. Now if you lived in Hawaii, the cost of living is probably pretty high there. But what you say about NY is true. Housing can be pretty expensive there. Even for a small apartment. But generally speaking, the cost of living is pretty much the same everywhere. At one time, with a strong union, auto workers used to make some pretty good money. Single people made enough to buy a house, drive a nice car and own a vacation cabin up north. If things hadn't change in that regard, most auto workers today would probably be making $50.00 an hour. If not more.

Next, you bring up too many subjects for me to care to go into. But for one, as a percentage of our population, the U.S. doesn't stack up very well compared to other countries in infant deaths. Any reasons why are just excuses. Next, the only reason I have a cell phone is because Obama made it possible for the poor to get them for free. It was the only good thing he ever did.

You get it for free because I and everybody here who pays their cell phone bill also pays yours. The government doesn't fund free cell phones---the phone companies do. They simply pass on the buck to us.

The main point in my rant is that our healthcare system is not responsible for the statistics you listed. Up north, all our hospitals are loaded with Canadian patients. Why? Because their socialized care can't take care of them, or can't take care of them in a reasonable amount of time. You can't point to one healthcare system in the world that doesn't have problems.

I'm fortunate to be a lifelong patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. When you enter their downtown campus, you are the one that feels like a foreigner. The best talent come from around the world to work at our health facilities, mostly because of the pay. So the best doctors are actually here in our country.

If housing is so expensive in other places, obviously the cost of living isn't the same everywhere, because shelter is part of the cost of living.

How about this. I get my cell phone for free, then you do too. How? By having the government take over communications companies. Then, instead of doing whatever for a profit, they provide their services at cost. Tell me that wouldn't be cheaper.

Next, our health care system sucks cock! It is possible there may be a few problems in the health care systems of countries that provide free health care. But they are nothing compared to ours. Less than nothing. Also, for the countries that provide free health care, they all go about it a bit differently. If we started such a system in this country, we could pick and choose the best aspects of all those other universal health care systems and create one that it above them all.

Another thing is a lot of people from this country will go to a foreign country for medical service on the cheap. And top notch medical treatment at that. Of course, insurance companies are all for this. Because then they have to pay less. How can foreign countries afford to do this? Because we are monkeys! Let me explain.

Among groups of monkeys, as well as other creatures, status is everything. As long as you have status, you are happy. In those other countries, they often have grinding poverty. Poverty at a level that would put any poverty in the U.S. to shame. I even saw a family in the Philippines who lived in a tomb in a graveyard. (and they weren't the only ones doing so) The owners didn't care, as long as they took care of the place. With such poverty going on, it doesn't take a very high standard of living for a doctor to have status and feel superior. And thus be happy. All we need to do is do what we can to give doctors more status here in the U.S.

Back in ancient Rome, they had one way of making the elite feel superior. Only the elite were allowed to wear purple colored clothing. Also, here in the U.S., doctors pay a large portion of their income for malpractice insurance. If we had universal health care in this country, we could do away with that. If a doctor screws up, the government pays the compensation. If any doctor screws up in an outrageously bad way, he has his licence to practice revoked. Or if a doctor screws up less severely too often, his licence to practice is revoked. I have also heard that in this country, there is a shortage of nurses and doctors. A free college education is something that this country should have anyway. But on top of that, give people going into those professions a little more incentive.

 

[quarantine]

Its time to get back to work. The virus is waning if we can keep it going down.
The summer heat is almost here. Lets hope the virus keeps slowing, and slowing, and slowing....
View attachment 336171

From what I have been seeing on the news, many states are reopening even though the cases of coronavirus is still increasing. Also, how many instances of coronavirus in this country did it take to get the whole ball rolling to begin with. 2 or 3?

Then why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
Its going down, with 1,417,350 US cases, how can it go down with so many active cases, not just 1 or 2?

Because of quarantine. With the 2 or 3 who got the whole plague rolling here, there was no quarantine.

Yes there most certainly was a quarantine here, for travelers from China, but not from Europe?!
Quarantine? Not all of the 1.4m are quarantined, so why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
You did not answer this question: What's a worse condition, 1.4m cases or a few?
We have the 1.4m now and the number of cases is going down, why? How can that be?

President Chump just didn't handle things well. And he still isn't.

Really? So what should he have done? I'll show you why he couldn't or didn't.

Well, president Chump could have started out by not calling the coronavirus a hoax at the beginning.

He didn't call it a hoax, he called what Democrats were trying to do with it another one of their hoaxes. Of course this was before we had any idea how this thing would impact us. But lets say he never made that statement. How would that have changed our current plight?

He called it a hoax. Next, it would have changed our current plight by taking it seriously from the beginning. And there would be over 30,000 fewer dead people.

President Trump is a former businessman, not a former scientist or medical expert. He took the advice from our various health agencies and his medical team to make decisions. Even in late February, Dr. Fauci made a public statement that this virus was nothing of great concern; go out and live life as you always have, and there is no need to use gloves or masks.

When the WHO made a public statement about their concern of this virus in late January, President Trump took action the next day. No, he didn't shutdown the country, but he did take a few precautionary measures, and increased those measures as new information because available, and his team and agencies were able to form a better opinion.

Today the CDC made an announcement that 35% of the Covid cases were with asymptomatic people. That means this virus likely has been with us much longer than we thought. Asymptomatic people have the virus and don't become ill because of it. However they are just as contagious as those that did get ill. That means these people were hugging their friends and family, shaking hands with strangers, drinking at bars and eating at restaurants, squeezing fruit and vegetables at their grocery store.

As for the non-asymptomatic people, the symptoms are similar to a bad cold or early flu, which a lot of people never seek medical attention for.

Therefore your theory about saving 30,000 people is your opinion, not fact.

Saving over 30,000 people with earlier action is what they said on the news last night. But admittedly, you can't always believe the news. For example, they say that Armaud Arbery was murdered. Though like it or not, president Chump started out by calling the whole thing a hoax. And it seems every step of the way, he has been dragging his feet. As for his "experts," they are on his payroll. They will basically say what they're told to say. Including the CDC. Don't believe it? Watch the documentary, "What lies upstream."

Your documentaries are not Gospel. They are trying to get you to watch their programming for profit.

Yes, if we started in September of last year, we could have saved tens of thousands of lives, but who knew what could happen back then? Trump didn't drag his feet. Our agencies are mired in red tape, and they practice these unnecessary prolonged actions that the President is not in control of.

In late February of this year, Cuomo was urging people to not worry about this silly virus. Go out, shop, dine, and carry on with your normal life. DeBlazio sent the same message to NYC residents around that same time. Piglosi was telling people to visit Chinatown. NOBODY KNEW!!!! The first two weeks of March, the House Democrats were trying to pass a bill stripping the President of his exclusive right to issue travel bans.

Bottom line is armchair quarterbacks like yourself can make any claim they desire. I always said if you want to hit todays lottery, buy tomorrows newspaper. Easier said than done.

Did you see any of those documentaries? Until you do, you can't have any kind of opinion about them. Next, nobody said anything about September. They were talking about early March.

You leftists always pull this stunt. So let me be clear up front: If I had to watch every documentary a leftists tells me to watch, watch every movie, read every book you people read, I wouldn't have time to come here and discuss politics. If you have a short article, sure, if I have time, I'll go through it. But I'm not going to spend hours and hours to reply to each and every leftist comment. You wouldn't read any book or watch any documentary I suggest either. Nobody has that kind of time.

You should listen to me. Your intellectual superior. I have no interest in steering you wrong. And you shouldn't assume I'm trying to do so. Take the documentary I mentioned called, "What lies upstream." I will tell you some of what you don't want to find out about yourself. First, companies aren't required to tell what the toxic effects of any chemical they make are. And the can lie about it! The CDC is fine with this because their leadership is appointed by the pro-business leadership of the government. Republican or democrat. Also, do you know how chemical companies get rid of their toxic waist? Basically, they flush it down the toilet! And it is perfectly legal!!! So what is the point of you having the time to say things here when all you have to speak about is shit to begin with.

Oh please, so you watch these "documentaries" and conclude they are all Gospel? WTF would make you think that? I always question what's told to me from somebody trying to make money by getting my attention, even if it's something that leans towards my political persuasion.

Facebook is loaded with conspiracy theories that after enough attention, is proven false by another entity. And as my intellectual superior, you should know by now that what you call toxic waist is spelled W-A-S-T-E, not W-A-I-S-T.

Thanks for letting me know about a typo. But as far as I can see, correcting my grammar is the best you've got. As for the conspiracy angle, they talked to the experts. People with PhD's in their particular fields. Top experts. As in there being just about no other people on the planet that may know more. You may not think so. But such people are well worth listening to.

Another documentary I mentioned to you was, "Where to invade next." Here is a piece of information from it that you can consider to be bullshit at your leisure. Apparently, Norway has the most highly educated students in the world. At the very least, they are in the top three. You might find how they accomplished this to be interesting. They eliminated homework. It seems counterintuitive. But it is a reality. In school, how much homework did you do. I didn't do any. Maybe that explains my intelligence.

Since you studied it so intensely, tell me, does Norway have anything comparable to our teachers unions? Does Norway have three months of vacation from school every year?

Somebody being an expert does not mean they are not biased. We have scientist who believe in global warming, and others who believe it's BS. We have "experts" who believe there is life on other planets, and others who do not. We have engineers who said that 911 was an inside job. Others say those people are FOS.

Being an expert doesn't mean you are always right. Speaking of which, I was never a spellcheck cop. But when somebody tires to degrade me by claiming their intellectual superioriority, the least you can do is proofread your post.

Why not watch the documentary, "Where to invade next" and find out. You would be dumbfounded, absolutely blown away by what people in European countries get that we don't. Though as Michael Moore says, things over there aren't perfect. But he's there to pick the flowers. Not the weeds. He was there to invade those countries and take back to the U.S. the spoils of his invasion. As in the good ideas. The things that have been demonstrated to work. At least over there. But maybe with out large negro and mexican population, they wouldn't work here. But it would be well worth impaling and deporting the hindrance for many other reasons. Also, I wasn't trying to degrade you. Just some of the things you talk about. Even a genius could probably be brainwashed. (But not me)

You would be dumbfounded, absolutely blown away by what people in European countries get that we don't.

A lower standard of living, smaller cars, smaller homes, a smaller economy.

They also have 8 bucks a gallon for gasoline.

But their societies weren't structures around the automobile. Unlike ours. Here, we have a lot of suburban sprawl. People live so way far out that if there was ever an EMP that killed cars, they would find it very difficult to get food.

You are putting the cart, in front of the horse.

The whole reason we have suburban sprawl.... is directly because Americans are wealthy enough to have a car, and desire to have a house farther away from the noisy crime infested inner city areas.

Yeah, their societies are less structured around automobiles....... because they couldn't afford to drive automobiles all the time.

If you take those people, and bring them to the US, where they earn more money, and pay less taxes, you what those people's from those cultures do?

They buy the biggest SUV they can, and buy a house in the suburbs.

They would do the same thing in Europe... they just can't. They can't afford it, because they are poor.

I had this couple from Laos. Escaped the communists in Laos. Talk about running through the woods, being shot at by police. Freaky stuff.

Made it to the US embassy, came to the US. Didn't know English. Had to learn English. Got training on how to do CNC work. Got jobs, making $100,000 a year. (combined).

This tiny Laos woman, bought herself, a Ford Excursion, and they bought a house in the suburbs.

I asked her if she would go back to Laos. She's wants to, because she loved the people, and the land, but if she went back, she'd be poor. The government takes all the money.

This is the reality throughout all Europe.

Why do you think the Yellow Vest protest happened? They have all that free stuff you mentioned. You know what they don't have? Money. Their poor. Because the government takes all the money. The thing that triggered the protest, was the tax hike by the government to improve social services.

They are poor. I've been there. I've seen them living in 600 sqft apartments with no air conditioning, and hanging cloths up on wires inside their 600 sqft apartment. I've seen it.

Yeah, their societies are not built around automobiles, because they can't afford automobiles. Even those that have them, can't afford to drive them.

Economically, (for instance) we ARE a third world country compared to Germany. Given their size, when it comes to the yearly value of their exports, they leave the U.S. in the dust. They have the ability to have anything they want and any size they want. But just from how their society functions, they apparently don't feel they need it.

As for the couple from Laos, who let them assholes into our country. I was watching some show one time where they were talking to people from Laos. Some of their cultural beliefs are pretty despicable compared to what White people believe. What our country should have done is leave them in the hell hole they created for themselves and train a White person to do CNC work. (Whatever that is)

Economically, (for instance) we ARE a third world country compared to Germany.

The evidence I presented, proves that your claim is false.

As for the couple from Laos, who let them assholes into our country. I was watching some show one time where they were talking to people from Laos. Some of their cultural beliefs are pretty despicable compared to what White people believe. What our country should have done is leave them in the hell hole they created for themselves and train a White person to do CNC work. (Whatever that is)

Well... we disagree on that. I'm more like Trump, in that I'm all in favor of legal immigration.

Honestly, I'm sure that white people like you describe yourself exist in society somewhere, I can't say that I've ever met any white person with the views you described.

But then again, I'm conservative, from a family of conservatives, from a church of conservatives, with conservative relatives.

In short, we're good people. I don't know people like you. So.. I would be polite, but I don't associate with people like you. I only meet people like you described yourself, on the internet. I remember some guy spouted that crap on Facebook. Don't know how he was even on my friends list, but I fixed that pretty quick.

But we're good people. We hate criminals obviously. You come here legally... only.. But if you follow our laws, I'm all for it. My last roomate was a Muslim from Bangladesh. He wanted to rent an apartment until his wife arrived. We (me and my parents together) went to his citizenship ceremony. Of course entirely legal immigration.

So no, I don't identify with people like you at all.

And I presented evidence to the contrary of yours. I told somebody around here about something I came across once. It had to do with the yearly value of the exports of the U.S. compared to Germany. Germany is a much smaller country with few natural resources. Their population is also around 81 million. The U.S. is a far larger country with a lot of arable land and many natural resources. Our population is also around 319 million people. The value of our exports for one particular year was around 1 trillion, 600 billion. For Germany it was 1 trillion, 400 million. So I am right.

You also say you support foreign scab scum. Just like president Chump. In that, you are outright evil. I have a book to suggest to you. But I doubt if you would ever read it.

We exported about $2.5 trillion last year, Germany exported $1.5 trillion.
Why does Germany suck so much?

I looked again. I found that the U.S. exported 1 trillion, 645 billion in goods. Germany exported 1 trillion, 489 billion in goods. And as I said, Germany is a far smaller country. The reason why food prices are higher in Europe is because the place doesn't have nearly as much farm land or places for cattle to graze as the U.S. Also, the total value of what Germany imports is 1 trillion, 236 billion. The total value of what the U.S. imports is 3.1 trillion. If any country sucks, it is ours.

Link your article to prove the export statement.

Why. Don't you believe me? And if you're calling me a liar, why would I do anything for such a piece of shit. Look the stuff up for yourself.

I don’t believe you because you have way too many holes in all your posts. You claimed to get hit by a car, auto insurance has nothing to do with universal care. You believe the cost of living is much the same all over the US? That is a crock of crap. I live on the border of two states, the state we live next to, everything is cheaper, taxes, fuel, food, housing, rent, you name it. City by city cost of living can be great. Along the I-5 corridor in Oregon and Washington the prices are much higher than the eastern part of both states. The idea that most of California being mostly desert? Northern California down through the San Fernando valley is green, lots of trees and tons of farmland. You were completely proved wrong about how it ?works in Europe.Go get educated then maybe we can talk, but your arrogance and racism seems to be out of ignorance.

 

[quarantine]

Its time to get back to work. The virus is waning if we can keep it going down.
The summer heat is almost here. Lets hope the virus keeps slowing, and slowing, and slowing....
View attachment 336171

From what I have been seeing on the news, many states are reopening even though the cases of coronavirus is still increasing. Also, how many instances of coronavirus in this country did it take to get the whole ball rolling to begin with. 2 or 3?

Then why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
Its going down, with 1,417,350 US cases, how can it go down with so many active cases, not just 1 or 2?

Because of quarantine. With the 2 or 3 who got the whole plague rolling here, there was no quarantine.

Yes there most certainly was a quarantine here, for travelers from China, but not from Europe?!
Quarantine? Not all of the 1.4m are quarantined, so why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
You did not answer this question: What's a worse condition, 1.4m cases or a few?
We have the 1.4m now and the number of cases is going down, why? How can that be?

President Chump just didn't handle things well. And he still isn't.

Really? So what should he have done? I'll show you why he couldn't or didn't.

Well, president Chump could have started out by not calling the coronavirus a hoax at the beginning.

He didn't call it a hoax, he called what Democrats were trying to do with it another one of their hoaxes. Of course this was before we had any idea how this thing would impact us. But lets say he never made that statement. How would that have changed our current plight?

He called it a hoax. Next, it would have changed our current plight by taking it seriously from the beginning. And there would be over 30,000 fewer dead people.

President Trump is a former businessman, not a former scientist or medical expert. He took the advice from our various health agencies and his medical team to make decisions. Even in late February, Dr. Fauci made a public statement that this virus was nothing of great concern; go out and live life as you always have, and there is no need to use gloves or masks.

When the WHO made a public statement about their concern of this virus in late January, President Trump took action the next day. No, he didn't shutdown the country, but he did take a few precautionary measures, and increased those measures as new information because available, and his team and agencies were able to form a better opinion.

Today the CDC made an announcement that 35% of the Covid cases were with asymptomatic people. That means this virus likely has been with us much longer than we thought. Asymptomatic people have the virus and don't become ill because of it. However they are just as contagious as those that did get ill. That means these people were hugging their friends and family, shaking hands with strangers, drinking at bars and eating at restaurants, squeezing fruit and vegetables at their grocery store.

As for the non-asymptomatic people, the symptoms are similar to a bad cold or early flu, which a lot of people never seek medical attention for.

Therefore your theory about saving 30,000 people is your opinion, not fact.

Saving over 30,000 people with earlier action is what they said on the news last night. But admittedly, you can't always believe the news. For example, they say that Armaud Arbery was murdered. Though like it or not, president Chump started out by calling the whole thing a hoax. And it seems every step of the way, he has been dragging his feet. As for his "experts," they are on his payroll. They will basically say what they're told to say. Including the CDC. Don't believe it? Watch the documentary, "What lies upstream."

Your documentaries are not Gospel. They are trying to get you to watch their programming for profit.

Yes, if we started in September of last year, we could have saved tens of thousands of lives, but who knew what could happen back then? Trump didn't drag his feet. Our agencies are mired in red tape, and they practice these unnecessary prolonged actions that the President is not in control of.

In late February of this year, Cuomo was urging people to not worry about this silly virus. Go out, shop, dine, and carry on with your normal life. DeBlazio sent the same message to NYC residents around that same time. Piglosi was telling people to visit Chinatown. NOBODY KNEW!!!! The first two weeks of March, the House Democrats were trying to pass a bill stripping the President of his exclusive right to issue travel bans.

Bottom line is armchair quarterbacks like yourself can make any claim they desire. I always said if you want to hit todays lottery, buy tomorrows newspaper. Easier said than done.

Did you see any of those documentaries? Until you do, you can't have any kind of opinion about them. Next, nobody said anything about September. They were talking about early March.

You leftists always pull this stunt. So let me be clear up front: If I had to watch every documentary a leftists tells me to watch, watch every movie, read every book you people read, I wouldn't have time to come here and discuss politics. If you have a short article, sure, if I have time, I'll go through it. But I'm not going to spend hours and hours to reply to each and every leftist comment. You wouldn't read any book or watch any documentary I suggest either. Nobody has that kind of time.

You should listen to me. Your intellectual superior. I have no interest in steering you wrong. And you shouldn't assume I'm trying to do so. Take the documentary I mentioned called, "What lies upstream." I will tell you some of what you don't want to find out about yourself. First, companies aren't required to tell what the toxic effects of any chemical they make are. And the can lie about it! The CDC is fine with this because their leadership is appointed by the pro-business leadership of the government. Republican or democrat. Also, do you know how chemical companies get rid of their toxic waist? Basically, they flush it down the toilet! And it is perfectly legal!!! So what is the point of you having the time to say things here when all you have to speak about is shit to begin with.

Oh please, so you watch these "documentaries" and conclude they are all Gospel? WTF would make you think that? I always question what's told to me from somebody trying to make money by getting my attention, even if it's something that leans towards my political persuasion.

Facebook is loaded with conspiracy theories that after enough attention, is proven false by another entity. And as my intellectual superior, you should know by now that what you call toxic waist is spelled W-A-S-T-E, not W-A-I-S-T.

Thanks for letting me know about a typo. But as far as I can see, correcting my grammar is the best you've got. As for the conspiracy angle, they talked to the experts. People with PhD's in their particular fields. Top experts. As in there being just about no other people on the planet that may know more. You may not think so. But such people are well worth listening to.

Another documentary I mentioned to you was, "Where to invade next." Here is a piece of information from it that you can consider to be bullshit at your leisure. Apparently, Norway has the most highly educated students in the world. At the very least, they are in the top three. You might find how they accomplished this to be interesting. They eliminated homework. It seems counterintuitive. But it is a reality. In school, how much homework did you do. I didn't do any. Maybe that explains my intelligence.

Since you studied it so intensely, tell me, does Norway have anything comparable to our teachers unions? Does Norway have three months of vacation from school every year?

Somebody being an expert does not mean they are not biased. We have scientist who believe in global warming, and others who believe it's BS. We have "experts" who believe there is life on other planets, and others who do not. We have engineers who said that 911 was an inside job. Others say those people are FOS.

Being an expert doesn't mean you are always right. Speaking of which, I was never a spellcheck cop. But when somebody tires to degrade me by claiming their intellectual superioriority, the least you can do is proofread your post.

Why not watch the documentary, "Where to invade next" and find out. You would be dumbfounded, absolutely blown away by what people in European countries get that we don't. Though as Michael Moore says, things over there aren't perfect. But he's there to pick the flowers. Not the weeds. He was there to invade those countries and take back to the U.S. the spoils of his invasion. As in the good ideas. The things that have been demonstrated to work. At least over there. But maybe with out large negro and mexican population, they wouldn't work here. But it would be well worth impaling and deporting the hindrance for many other reasons. Also, I wasn't trying to degrade you. Just some of the things you talk about. Even a genius could probably be brainwashed. (But not me)

You would be dumbfounded, absolutely blown away by what people in European countries get that we don't.

A lower standard of living, smaller cars, smaller homes, a smaller economy.

They also have 8 bucks a gallon for gasoline.

But their societies weren't structures around the automobile. Unlike ours. Here, we have a lot of suburban sprawl. People live so way far out that if there was ever an EMP that killed cars, they would find it very difficult to get food.

You are putting the cart, in front of the horse.

The whole reason we have suburban sprawl.... is directly because Americans are wealthy enough to have a car, and desire to have a house farther away from the noisy crime infested inner city areas.

Yeah, their societies are less structured around automobiles....... because they couldn't afford to drive automobiles all the time.

If you take those people, and bring them to the US, where they earn more money, and pay less taxes, you what those people's from those cultures do?

They buy the biggest SUV they can, and buy a house in the suburbs.

They would do the same thing in Europe... they just can't. They can't afford it, because they are poor.

I had this couple from Laos. Escaped the communists in Laos. Talk about running through the woods, being shot at by police. Freaky stuff.

Made it to the US embassy, came to the US. Didn't know English. Had to learn English. Got training on how to do CNC work. Got jobs, making $100,000 a year. (combined).

This tiny Laos woman, bought herself, a Ford Excursion, and they bought a house in the suburbs.

I asked her if she would go back to Laos. She's wants to, because she loved the people, and the land, but if she went back, she'd be poor. The government takes all the money.

This is the reality throughout all Europe.

Why do you think the Yellow Vest protest happened? They have all that free stuff you mentioned. You know what they don't have? Money. Their poor. Because the government takes all the money. The thing that triggered the protest, was the tax hike by the government to improve social services.

They are poor. I've been there. I've seen them living in 600 sqft apartments with no air conditioning, and hanging cloths up on wires inside their 600 sqft apartment. I've seen it.

Yeah, their societies are not built around automobiles, because they can't afford automobiles. Even those that have them, can't afford to drive them.

Economically, (for instance) we ARE a third world country compared to Germany. Given their size, when it comes to the yearly value of their exports, they leave the U.S. in the dust. They have the ability to have anything they want and any size they want. But just from how their society functions, they apparently don't feel they need it.

As for the couple from Laos, who let them assholes into our country. I was watching some show one time where they were talking to people from Laos. Some of their cultural beliefs are pretty despicable compared to what White people believe. What our country should have done is leave them in the hell hole they created for themselves and train a White person to do CNC work. (Whatever that is)

Economically, (for instance) we ARE a third world country compared to Germany.

The evidence I presented, proves that your claim is false.

As for the couple from Laos, who let them assholes into our country. I was watching some show one time where they were talking to people from Laos. Some of their cultural beliefs are pretty despicable compared to what White people believe. What our country should have done is leave them in the hell hole they created for themselves and train a White person to do CNC work. (Whatever that is)

Well... we disagree on that. I'm more like Trump, in that I'm all in favor of legal immigration.

Honestly, I'm sure that white people like you describe yourself exist in society somewhere, I can't say that I've ever met any white person with the views you described.

But then again, I'm conservative, from a family of conservatives, from a church of conservatives, with conservative relatives.

In short, we're good people. I don't know people like you. So.. I would be polite, but I don't associate with people like you. I only meet people like you described yourself, on the internet. I remember some guy spouted that crap on Facebook. Don't know how he was even on my friends list, but I fixed that pretty quick.

But we're good people. We hate criminals obviously. You come here legally... only.. But if you follow our laws, I'm all for it. My last roomate was a Muslim from Bangladesh. He wanted to rent an apartment until his wife arrived. We (me and my parents together) went to his citizenship ceremony. Of course entirely legal immigration.

So no, I don't identify with people like you at all.

And I presented evidence to the contrary of yours. I told somebody around here about something I came across once. It had to do with the yearly value of the exports of the U.S. compared to Germany. Germany is a much smaller country with few natural resources. Their population is also around 81 million. The U.S. is a far larger country with a lot of arable land and many natural resources. Our population is also around 319 million people. The value of our exports for one particular year was around 1 trillion, 600 billion. For Germany it was 1 trillion, 400 million. So I am right.

You also say you support foreign scab scum. Just like president Chump. In that, you are outright evil. I have a book to suggest to you. But I doubt if you would ever read it.

We exported about $2.5 trillion last year, Germany exported $1.5 trillion.
Why does Germany suck so much?

I looked again. I found that the U.S. exported 1 trillion, 645 billion in goods. Germany exported 1 trillion, 489 billion in goods. And as I said, Germany is a far smaller country. The reason why food prices are higher in Europe is because the place doesn't have nearly as much farm land or places for cattle to graze as the U.S. Also, the total value of what Germany imports is 1 trillion, 236 billion. The total value of what the U.S. imports is 3.1 trillion. If any country sucks, it is ours.

Link your article to prove the export statement.

Why. Don't you believe me? And if you're calling me a liar, why would I do anything for such a piece of shit. Look the stuff up for yourself.

I don’t believe you because you have way too many holes in all your posts. You claimed to get hit by a car, auto insurance has nothing to do with universal care. You believe the cost of living is much the same all over the US? That is a crock of crap. I live on the border of two states, the state we live next to, everything is cheaper, taxes, fuel, food, housing, rent, you name it. City by city cost of living can be great. Along the I-5 corridor in Oregon and Washington the prices are much higher than the eastern part of both states. The idea that most of California being mostly desert? Northern California down through the San Fernando valley is green, lots of trees and tons of farmland. You were completely proved wrong about how it ?works in Europe.Go get educated then maybe we can talk, but your arrogance and racism seems to be out of ignorance.

Well how about being more specific. That might fill in some holes. Next, insurance has everything to do with health coverage. My story about getting hit by a car just pointed out one aspect of why insurance companies suck so bad. They all need to be done away with. Next, if you want to, take all the cost of living expenses all over the country and average them out. For any future discussions where the topic might come up, let that be your starting point. That was what I was getting at when I brought the subject up.

Next, California is mostly desert. That is why they have palm trees in LA. They also have a lake in California called the Salton Sea. It is drying up. If it wasn't for water diverted from the Colorado river, things would be a lot dryer there. I also saw an old photo once of somebody standing next to a telephone pole. About 18 feet up the telephone pole (if not higher) they had a marker. It marked where the ground level used to be. Before they pumped out all the ground water that they pumped out. Also, if it wasn't for snow melt from the snow that the mountains caught, things would be even dryer there yet. And all those historic level fires they have been having there isn't because there is a lot of rain there.

 

[Andylusion]

I heard once that in California, to live an average middle class lifestyle, you would need to earn $50.00 an hour. And I don't imagine it's a hell of a lot different in the rest of the states. But most people don't make anywhere near that. Most people live from paycheck to paycheck.

You don't need near 50 bucks an hour to live here in Ohio and in most other non-blue states. It's not the same everywhere. As I mentioned earlier, in the winter time when weather is crappy, I spend a lot of time watching HGTV. In a deep blue state, an average home is about 800K give or take. Then they show episodes of what 800K can buy you in Montana. You can own a ski resort out there.

Years ago I rented one of my units to a kid from Buffalo NY. At the time, I charged him 400 dollars a month for rent.......well, not him, but his mother since he was going to school and didn't have a job. I couldn't give him a lease with no job.

Anyway, he told me that if I could take the rental property, and move them to the outskirts of NYC, I could get four times the amount of rent I was charging here, and have a waiting list to boot because the price would still be so cheap.

Poverty is rife here in the U.S. I doubt if it is in most of Europe. More babies die here. They have longer lifespans. These things are facts. All you have to offer is some crap about some German person why prefers to live here. That isn't good enough.

Your facts are not really facts at all. First off, poverty is subjective. Yes, government has a line what they consider poverty, but what is really poor? Most of our poor have all the amenities that working people have: television, air conditioning, microwave, video games, and many of them have or had children they could never afford in the first place. For crying out loud, our so-called poor have cell phones!

Lifespan is based on many things, not just healthcare. In fact, most of the people who die naturally are on Medicare. We have a terrible obesity problem in this country. We also have a big drug problem on top of that which claims over 100,000 lives every year--mostly young people. Along with recreational narcotics are drug deals that go bad so often, and cause many more deaths of younger people. We drive automobiles more than a lot of places too. Tens of thousands of American lives are lost every year on the road.

American women generally are career women. By the time they graduate college, get a job and repay their school loans, are financially secure enough to buy or rent a home and raise a family, they are well into their 30's by then in many cases. Because they are career women trying to get ahead in the rat race, they often skip prenatal care.

The older you are having children, the higher risks you take of a child being still born or with medical problems that causes death. Add to that the other things, such as again, the obesity factor, illegal narcotics, then yes, we will have a higher rate of babies dying.

I stand by what I say. Though I have never been to California, the place is mostly desert. How expensive can it be to live in a desert. Now if you lived in Hawaii, the cost of living is probably pretty high there. But what you say about NY is true. Housing can be pretty expensive there. Even for a small apartment. But generally speaking, the cost of living is pretty much the same everywhere. At one time, with a strong union, auto workers used to make some pretty good money. Single people made enough to buy a house, drive a nice car and own a vacation cabin up north. If things hadn't change in that regard, most auto workers today would probably be making $50.00 an hour. If not more.

Next, you bring up too many subjects for me to care to go into. But for one, as a percentage of our population, the U.S. doesn't stack up very well compared to other countries in infant deaths. Any reasons why are just excuses. Next, the only reason I have a cell phone is because Obama made it possible for the poor to get them for free. It was the only good thing he ever did.

You get it for free because I and everybody here who pays their cell phone bill also pays yours. The government doesn't fund free cell phones---the phone companies do. They simply pass on the buck to us.

The main point in my rant is that our healthcare system is not responsible for the statistics you listed. Up north, all our hospitals are loaded with Canadian patients. Why? Because their socialized care can't take care of them, or can't take care of them in a reasonable amount of time. You can't point to one healthcare system in the world that doesn't have problems.

I'm fortunate to be a lifelong patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. When you enter their downtown campus, you are the one that feels like a foreigner. The best talent come from around the world to work at our health facilities, mostly because of the pay. So the best doctors are actually here in our country.

If housing is so expensive in other places, obviously the cost of living isn't the same everywhere, because shelter is part of the cost of living.

How about this. I get my cell phone for free, then you do too. How? By having the government take over communications companies. Then, instead of doing whatever for a profit, they provide their services at cost. Tell me that wouldn't be cheaper.

Next, our health care system sucks cock! It is possible there may be a few problems in the health care systems of countries that provide free health care. But they are nothing compared to ours. Less than nothing. Also, for the countries that provide free health care, they all go about it a bit differently. If we started such a system in this country, we could pick and choose the best aspects of all those other universal health care systems and create one that it above them all.

Another thing is a lot of people from this country will go to a foreign country for medical service on the cheap. And top notch medical treatment at that. Of course, insurance companies are all for this. Because then they have to pay less. How can foreign countries afford to do this? Because we are monkeys! Let me explain.

Among groups of monkeys, as well as other creatures, status is everything. As long as you have status, you are happy. In those other countries, they often have grinding poverty. Poverty at a level that would put any poverty in the U.S. to shame. I even saw a family in the Philippines who lived in a tomb in a graveyard. (and they weren't the only ones doing so) The owners didn't care, as long as they took care of the place. With such poverty going on, it doesn't take a very high standard of living for a doctor to have status and feel superior. And thus be happy. All we need to do is do what we can to give doctors more status here in the U.S.

Back in ancient Rome, they had one way of making the elite feel superior. Only the elite were allowed to wear purple colored clothing. Also, here in the U.S., doctors pay a large portion of their income for malpractice insurance. If we had universal health care in this country, we could do away with that. If a doctor screws up, the government pays the compensation. If any doctor screws up in an outrageously bad way, he has his licence to practice revoked. Or if a doctor screws up less severely too often, his licence to practice is revoked. I have also heard that in this country, there is a shortage of nurses and doctors. A free college education is something that this country should have anyway. But on top of that, give people going into those professions a little more incentive.

How about this. I get my cell phone for free, then you do too. How? By having the government take over communications companies. Then, instead of doing whatever for a profit, they provide their services at cost. Tell me that wouldn't be cheaper.

It wouldn't be cheaper. Do you not even realize that this was tried already? British Telecommunications in the UK, was owned by the government. They privatized it.

And the result was cheaper service. This is fact. Even to this day, broadband in the UK is not faster... contrary to popular claim.

But it most certainly is cheaper, and the primary reason why is because they created a private free-market system.

Again, when you put something in control of the government, it becomes anything but cheaper.

Fannie and Freddie were the two largest and most expensive bailouts of the entire sub-prime melt down. And this was after being caught clearly engaging in fraudulent activities on the books. It was clear they cooked the numbers, to make the profits high enough, to trigger executive bonuses.

Not only did the CEO of Fannie Mae, the government run enterprise, not face prison, but wasn't even charged.

Nothing happened.

Instead, we just footed the bill on billions of dollars in bad loans, while Franklin Raines walked away with millions.

That's how having government in charge works.

And we see the same thing in the USPS, and BMV, and the VA system. Lost money. Lousy service. Terrible results, and high costs.

 

[quarantine]

It might interest you to know that if we had universal health care, from what we would save on such pointless bureaucracy, it alone would pay for around half of what universal health care costs.

Of course, because pointless government bureaucracy is much cheaper than pointless private bureaucracy......DURR

Do you enjoy being stupid? With private bureaucracy, they can and have gotten away with murder! To paraphrase Calvin Coolidge, "The business of government IS business." But with something run by the government, they can be held more accountable. Because those in office can be voted out of office. But votes mean nothing to big business.

Do you enjoy being stupid?

Stop mumbling to yourself.

But with something run by the government, they can be held more accountable.

Exactly! When the DMV or the IRS sucks, a letter to your politicians can fix the problem.....quickly!

But votes mean nothing to big business.

And neither do the dollars of their customers. That's why Sears and JCPenny are doing so well.

If the IRS and DMV were privately run, a letter to your politicians would do less good. Next, don't bring any supply and demand BS into the argument. Big business runs this country. And politicians work for them. Nobody who heads any big business-corporation is voted into office. Neither can they be voted out. You need to see the documentary, "The Corporation." After that, the documentary, "What lies upstream." Basically, corporations are above the law. You could even say they are the law.

 

[quarantine]

Its time to get back to work. The virus is waning if we can keep it going down.
The summer heat is almost here. Lets hope the virus keeps slowing, and slowing, and slowing....
View attachment 336171

From what I have been seeing on the news, many states are reopening even though the cases of coronavirus is still increasing. Also, how many instances of coronavirus in this country did it take to get the whole ball rolling to begin with. 2 or 3?

Then why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
Its going down, with 1,417,350 US cases, how can it go down with so many active cases, not just 1 or 2?

Because of quarantine. With the 2 or 3 who got the whole plague rolling here, there was no quarantine.

Yes there most certainly was a quarantine here, for travelers from China, but not from Europe?!
Quarantine? Not all of the 1.4m are quarantined, so why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
You did not answer this question: What's a worse condition, 1.4m cases or a few?
We have the 1.4m now and the number of cases is going down, why? How can that be?

President Chump just didn't handle things well. And he still isn't.

Really? So what should he have done? I'll show you why he couldn't or didn't.

Well, president Chump could have started out by not calling the coronavirus a hoax at the beginning.

He didn't call it a hoax, he called what Democrats were trying to do with it another one of their hoaxes. Of course this was before we had any idea how this thing would impact us. But lets say he never made that statement. How would that have changed our current plight?

He called it a hoax. Next, it would have changed our current plight by taking it seriously from the beginning. And there would be over 30,000 fewer dead people.

President Trump is a former businessman, not a former scientist or medical expert. He took the advice from our various health agencies and his medical team to make decisions. Even in late February, Dr. Fauci made a public statement that this virus was nothing of great concern; go out and live life as you always have, and there is no need to use gloves or masks.

When the WHO made a public statement about their concern of this virus in late January, President Trump took action the next day. No, he didn't shutdown the country, but he did take a few precautionary measures, and increased those measures as new information because available, and his team and agencies were able to form a better opinion.

Today the CDC made an announcement that 35% of the Covid cases were with asymptomatic people. That means this virus likely has been with us much longer than we thought. Asymptomatic people have the virus and don't become ill because of it. However they are just as contagious as those that did get ill. That means these people were hugging their friends and family, shaking hands with strangers, drinking at bars and eating at restaurants, squeezing fruit and vegetables at their grocery store.

As for the non-asymptomatic people, the symptoms are similar to a bad cold or early flu, which a lot of people never seek medical attention for.

Therefore your theory about saving 30,000 people is your opinion, not fact.

Saving over 30,000 people with earlier action is what they said on the news last night. But admittedly, you can't always believe the news. For example, they say that Armaud Arbery was murdered. Though like it or not, president Chump started out by calling the whole thing a hoax. And it seems every step of the way, he has been dragging his feet. As for his "experts," they are on his payroll. They will basically say what they're told to say. Including the CDC. Don't believe it? Watch the documentary, "What lies upstream."

Your documentaries are not Gospel. They are trying to get you to watch their programming for profit.

Yes, if we started in September of last year, we could have saved tens of thousands of lives, but who knew what could happen back then? Trump didn't drag his feet. Our agencies are mired in red tape, and they practice these unnecessary prolonged actions that the President is not in control of.

In late February of this year, Cuomo was urging people to not worry about this silly virus. Go out, shop, dine, and carry on with your normal life. DeBlazio sent the same message to NYC residents around that same time. Piglosi was telling people to visit Chinatown. NOBODY KNEW!!!! The first two weeks of March, the House Democrats were trying to pass a bill stripping the President of his exclusive right to issue travel bans.

Bottom line is armchair quarterbacks like yourself can make any claim they desire. I always said if you want to hit todays lottery, buy tomorrows newspaper. Easier said than done.

Did you see any of those documentaries? Until you do, you can't have any kind of opinion about them. Next, nobody said anything about September. They were talking about early March.

You leftists always pull this stunt. So let me be clear up front: If I had to watch every documentary a leftists tells me to watch, watch every movie, read every book you people read, I wouldn't have time to come here and discuss politics. If you have a short article, sure, if I have time, I'll go through it. But I'm not going to spend hours and hours to reply to each and every leftist comment. You wouldn't read any book or watch any documentary I suggest either. Nobody has that kind of time.

You should listen to me. Your intellectual superior. I have no interest in steering you wrong. And you shouldn't assume I'm trying to do so. Take the documentary I mentioned called, "What lies upstream." I will tell you some of what you don't want to find out about yourself. First, companies aren't required to tell what the toxic effects of any chemical they make are. And the can lie about it! The CDC is fine with this because their leadership is appointed by the pro-business leadership of the government. Republican or democrat. Also, do you know how chemical companies get rid of their toxic waist? Basically, they flush it down the toilet! And it is perfectly legal!!! So what is the point of you having the time to say things here when all you have to speak about is shit to begin with.

Oh please, so you watch these "documentaries" and conclude they are all Gospel? WTF would make you think that? I always question what's told to me from somebody trying to make money by getting my attention, even if it's something that leans towards my political persuasion.

Facebook is loaded with conspiracy theories that after enough attention, is proven false by another entity. And as my intellectual superior, you should know by now that what you call toxic waist is spelled W-A-S-T-E, not W-A-I-S-T.

Thanks for letting me know about a typo. But as far as I can see, correcting my grammar is the best you've got. As for the conspiracy angle, they talked to the experts. People with PhD's in their particular fields. Top experts. As in there being just about no other people on the planet that may know more. You may not think so. But such people are well worth listening to.

Another documentary I mentioned to you was, "Where to invade next." Here is a piece of information from it that you can consider to be bullshit at your leisure. Apparently, Norway has the most highly educated students in the world. At the very least, they are in the top three. You might find how they accomplished this to be interesting. They eliminated homework. It seems counterintuitive. But it is a reality. In school, how much homework did you do. I didn't do any. Maybe that explains my intelligence.

Since you studied it so intensely, tell me, does Norway have anything comparable to our teachers unions? Does Norway have three months of vacation from school every year?

Somebody being an expert does not mean they are not biased. We have scientist who believe in global warming, and others who believe it's BS. We have "experts" who believe there is life on other planets, and others who do not. We have engineers who said that 911 was an inside job. Others say those people are FOS.

Being an expert doesn't mean you are always right. Speaking of which, I was never a spellcheck cop. But when somebody tires to degrade me by claiming their intellectual superioriority, the least you can do is proofread your post.

Why not watch the documentary, "Where to invade next" and find out. You would be dumbfounded, absolutely blown away by what people in European countries get that we don't. Though as Michael Moore says, things over there aren't perfect. But he's there to pick the flowers. Not the weeds. He was there to invade those countries and take back to the U.S. the spoils of his invasion. As in the good ideas. The things that have been demonstrated to work. At least over there. But maybe with out large negro and mexican population, they wouldn't work here. But it would be well worth impaling and deporting the hindrance for many other reasons. Also, I wasn't trying to degrade you. Just some of the things you talk about. Even a genius could probably be brainwashed. (But not me)

You would be dumbfounded, absolutely blown away by what people in European countries get that we don't.

A lower standard of living, smaller cars, smaller homes, a smaller economy.

They also have 8 bucks a gallon for gasoline.

But their societies weren't structures around the automobile. Unlike ours. Here, we have a lot of suburban sprawl. People live so way far out that if there was ever an EMP that killed cars, they would find it very difficult to get food.

You are putting the cart, in front of the horse.

The whole reason we have suburban sprawl.... is directly because Americans are wealthy enough to have a car, and desire to have a house farther away from the noisy crime infested inner city areas.

Yeah, their societies are less structured around automobiles....... because they couldn't afford to drive automobiles all the time.

If you take those people, and bring them to the US, where they earn more money, and pay less taxes, you what those people's from those cultures do?

They buy the biggest SUV they can, and buy a house in the suburbs.

They would do the same thing in Europe... they just can't. They can't afford it, because they are poor.

I had this couple from Laos. Escaped the communists in Laos. Talk about running through the woods, being shot at by police. Freaky stuff.

Made it to the US embassy, came to the US. Didn't know English. Had to learn English. Got training on how to do CNC work. Got jobs, making $100,000 a year. (combined).

This tiny Laos woman, bought herself, a Ford Excursion, and they bought a house in the suburbs.

I asked her if she would go back to Laos. She's wants to, because she loved the people, and the land, but if she went back, she'd be poor. The government takes all the money.

This is the reality throughout all Europe.

Why do you think the Yellow Vest protest happened? They have all that free stuff you mentioned. You know what they don't have? Money. Their poor. Because the government takes all the money. The thing that triggered the protest, was the tax hike by the government to improve social services.

They are poor. I've been there. I've seen them living in 600 sqft apartments with no air conditioning, and hanging cloths up on wires inside their 600 sqft apartment. I've seen it.

Yeah, their societies are not built around automobiles, because they can't afford automobiles. Even those that have them, can't afford to drive them.

Economically, (for instance) we ARE a third world country compared to Germany. Given their size, when it comes to the yearly value of their exports, they leave the U.S. in the dust. They have the ability to have anything they want and any size they want. But just from how their society functions, they apparently don't feel they need it.

As for the couple from Laos, who let them assholes into our country. I was watching some show one time where they were talking to people from Laos. Some of their cultural beliefs are pretty despicable compared to what White people believe. What our country should have done is leave them in the hell hole they created for themselves and train a White person to do CNC work. (Whatever that is)

Economically, (for instance) we ARE a third world country compared to Germany.

The evidence I presented, proves that your claim is false.

As for the couple from Laos, who let them assholes into our country. I was watching some show one time where they were talking to people from Laos. Some of their cultural beliefs are pretty despicable compared to what White people believe. What our country should have done is leave them in the hell hole they created for themselves and train a White person to do CNC work. (Whatever that is)

Well... we disagree on that. I'm more like Trump, in that I'm all in favor of legal immigration.

Honestly, I'm sure that white people like you describe yourself exist in society somewhere, I can't say that I've ever met any white person with the views you described.

But then again, I'm conservative, from a family of conservatives, from a church of conservatives, with conservative relatives.

In short, we're good people. I don't know people like you. So.. I would be polite, but I don't associate with people like you. I only meet people like you described yourself, on the internet. I remember some guy spouted that crap on Facebook. Don't know how he was even on my friends list, but I fixed that pretty quick.

But we're good people. We hate criminals obviously. You come here legally... only.. But if you follow our laws, I'm all for it. My last roomate was a Muslim from Bangladesh. He wanted to rent an apartment until his wife arrived. We (me and my parents together) went to his citizenship ceremony. Of course entirely legal immigration.

So no, I don't identify with people like you at all.

And I presented evidence to the contrary of yours. I told somebody around here about something I came across once. It had to do with the yearly value of the exports of the U.S. compared to Germany. Germany is a much smaller country with few natural resources. Their population is also around 81 million. The U.S. is a far larger country with a lot of arable land and many natural resources. Our population is also around 319 million people. The value of our exports for one particular year was around 1 trillion, 600 billion. For Germany it was 1 trillion, 400 million. So I am right.

You also say you support foreign scab scum. Just like president Chump. In that, you are outright evil. I have a book to suggest to you. But I doubt if you would ever read it.

We exported about $2.5 trillion last year, Germany exported $1.5 trillion.
Why does Germany suck so much?

I looked again. I found that the U.S. exported 1 trillion, 645 billion in goods. Germany exported 1 trillion, 489 billion in goods. And as I said, Germany is a far smaller country. The reason why food prices are higher in Europe is because the place doesn't have nearly as much farm land or places for cattle to graze as the U.S. Also, the total value of what Germany imports is 1 trillion, 236 billion. The total value of what the U.S. imports is 3.1 trillion. If any country sucks, it is ours.

View attachment 341999

The land being used for farming in the EU, has declined.

This is why they are importing food more and more. If I had to guess, I would wager this has to do with government interference, but that's just a guess.

Also, the total value of what Germany imports is 1 trillion, 236 billion. The total value of what the U.S. imports is 3.1 trillion. If any country sucks, it is ours.

I disagree with the way the previous conversation was going.

You and me, both own a store. I make millions. I go to your store, and I can buy everything in the store. This is because the products you sell are cheap... and I make millions.

You barely make minimum wage. When you come to my store, you can barely afford to buy one item from my store. This is because I make expensive products, and you are poor.

If we drew a line between us, and called my said Andy-Country, and your side (fittingly) Quarantine-Country.... It would look like I imported millions from you, while you imported a hundred bucks from me.

Based on what, would you claim "I suck" because I'm rich, wealthy, and can afford everything I want from others?

Imports are not a negative. In fact, they are a positive.

Rich people buy.... read Import... more from poor people, because poor people are poor, and rich people are rich.

The US buys... imports.... more from China, because the US is rich, and China is poor.

Very few wealthy countries, export more than they import, and it is usually tied to energy... natural gas, oil, and so on.

First, let's look at the UK. They have around 63 million people. If the whole country was to switch to an agrarian lifestyle, they could only raise enough food to feed about 8 million people. "Government interference" has nothing to do with it. How much land you have does. Now I will make a specist (racist) statement. Given this fact, only the lowest of lowlife traitorous scum would be letting lowlife sand negro scum emigrate to there. Or here. Or anywhere.

As for international trade, it just shouldn't be happening. Especially with the wage slave country China. As anybody can see, it is too one sided. In favor of China. If any trade isn't equal, (fair) then it is criminal. And what can somebody from China making 50 cents an hour buy from and American who makes 8 dollars an hour.

Also, there are species of ant that take other species as ant as slaves to do their work for them. They evolved to the point where the slaver ants can't even feed themselves without the slave ants feeding them. To me, it is the slaver ants who are the real slaves. Another thing is that a long time ago, Europe was hungry for Chinese porcelain and silks. This caused European countries to bleed money. And the Europeans didn't make anything that the Chinese needed. This cause European countries to export opium to China to get some money back. This led to the Opium Wars. And the Chinese didn't do so well.

 

[quarantine]

I heard once that in California, to live an average middle class lifestyle, you would need to earn $50.00 an hour. And I don't imagine it's a hell of a lot different in the rest of the states. But most people don't make anywhere near that. Most people live from paycheck to paycheck.

You don't need near 50 bucks an hour to live here in Ohio and in most other non-blue states. It's not the same everywhere. As I mentioned earlier, in the winter time when weather is crappy, I spend a lot of time watching HGTV. In a deep blue state, an average home is about 800K give or take. Then they show episodes of what 800K can buy you in Montana. You can own a ski resort out there.

Years ago I rented one of my units to a kid from Buffalo NY. At the time, I charged him 400 dollars a month for rent.......well, not him, but his mother since he was going to school and didn't have a job. I couldn't give him a lease with no job.

Anyway, he told me that if I could take the rental property, and move them to the outskirts of NYC, I could get four times the amount of rent I was charging here, and have a waiting list to boot because the price would still be so cheap.

Poverty is rife here in the U.S. I doubt if it is in most of Europe. More babies die here. They have longer lifespans. These things are facts. All you have to offer is some crap about some German person why prefers to live here. That isn't good enough.

Your facts are not really facts at all. First off, poverty is subjective. Yes, government has a line what they consider poverty, but what is really poor? Most of our poor have all the amenities that working people have: television, air conditioning, microwave, video games, and many of them have or had children they could never afford in the first place. For crying out loud, our so-called poor have cell phones!

Lifespan is based on many things, not just healthcare. In fact, most of the people who die naturally are on Medicare. We have a terrible obesity problem in this country. We also have a big drug problem on top of that which claims over 100,000 lives every year--mostly young people. Along with recreational narcotics are drug deals that go bad so often, and cause many more deaths of younger people. We drive automobiles more than a lot of places too. Tens of thousands of American lives are lost every year on the road.

American women generally are career women. By the time they graduate college, get a job and repay their school loans, are financially secure enough to buy or rent a home and raise a family, they are well into their 30's by then in many cases. Because they are career women trying to get ahead in the rat race, they often skip prenatal care.

The older you are having children, the higher risks you take of a child being still born or with medical problems that causes death. Add to that the other things, such as again, the obesity factor, illegal narcotics, then yes, we will have a higher rate of babies dying.

I stand by what I say. Though I have never been to California, the place is mostly desert. How expensive can it be to live in a desert. Now if you lived in Hawaii, the cost of living is probably pretty high there. But what you say about NY is true. Housing can be pretty expensive there. Even for a small apartment. But generally speaking, the cost of living is pretty much the same everywhere. At one time, with a strong union, auto workers used to make some pretty good money. Single people made enough to buy a house, drive a nice car and own a vacation cabin up north. If things hadn't change in that regard, most auto workers today would probably be making $50.00 an hour. If not more.

Next, you bring up too many subjects for me to care to go into. But for one, as a percentage of our population, the U.S. doesn't stack up very well compared to other countries in infant deaths. Any reasons why are just excuses. Next, the only reason I have a cell phone is because Obama made it possible for the poor to get them for free. It was the only good thing he ever did.

You get it for free because I and everybody here who pays their cell phone bill also pays yours. The government doesn't fund free cell phones---the phone companies do. They simply pass on the buck to us.

The main point in my rant is that our healthcare system is not responsible for the statistics you listed. Up north, all our hospitals are loaded with Canadian patients. Why? Because their socialized care can't take care of them, or can't take care of them in a reasonable amount of time. You can't point to one healthcare system in the world that doesn't have problems.

I'm fortunate to be a lifelong patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. When you enter their downtown campus, you are the one that feels like a foreigner. The best talent come from around the world to work at our health facilities, mostly because of the pay. So the best doctors are actually here in our country.

If housing is so expensive in other places, obviously the cost of living isn't the same everywhere, because shelter is part of the cost of living.

How about this. I get my cell phone for free, then you do too. How? By having the government take over communications companies. Then, instead of doing whatever for a profit, they provide their services at cost. Tell me that wouldn't be cheaper.

Next, our health care system sucks cock! It is possible there may be a few problems in the health care systems of countries that provide free health care. But they are nothing compared to ours. Less than nothing. Also, for the countries that provide free health care, they all go about it a bit differently. If we started such a system in this country, we could pick and choose the best aspects of all those other universal health care systems and create one that it above them all.

Another thing is a lot of people from this country will go to a foreign country for medical service on the cheap. And top notch medical treatment at that. Of course, insurance companies are all for this. Because then they have to pay less. How can foreign countries afford to do this? Because we are monkeys! Let me explain.

Among groups of monkeys, as well as other creatures, status is everything. As long as you have status, you are happy. In those other countries, they often have grinding poverty. Poverty at a level that would put any poverty in the U.S. to shame. I even saw a family in the Philippines who lived in a tomb in a graveyard. (and they weren't the only ones doing so) The owners didn't care, as long as they took care of the place. With such poverty going on, it doesn't take a very high standard of living for a doctor to have status and feel superior. And thus be happy. All we need to do is do what we can to give doctors more status here in the U.S.

Back in ancient Rome, they had one way of making the elite feel superior. Only the elite were allowed to wear purple colored clothing. Also, here in the U.S., doctors pay a large portion of their income for malpractice insurance. If we had universal health care in this country, we could do away with that. If a doctor screws up, the government pays the compensation. If any doctor screws up in an outrageously bad way, he has his licence to practice revoked. Or if a doctor screws up less severely too often, his licence to practice is revoked. I have also heard that in this country, there is a shortage of nurses and doctors. A free college education is something that this country should have anyway. But on top of that, give people going into those professions a little more incentive.

How about this. I get my cell phone for free, then you do too. How? By having the government take over communications companies. Then, instead of doing whatever for a profit, they provide their services at cost. Tell me that wouldn't be cheaper.

It wouldn't be cheaper. Do you not even realize that this was tried already? British Telecommunications in the UK, was owned by the government. They privatized it.

And the result was cheaper service. This is fact. Even to this day, broadband in the UK is not faster... contrary to popular claim.

But it most certainly is cheaper, and the primary reason why is because they created a private free-market system.

Again, when you put something in control of the government, it becomes anything but cheaper.

Fannie and Freddie were the two largest and most expensive bailouts of the entire sub-prime melt down. And this was after being caught clearly engaging in fraudulent activities on the books. It was clear they cooked the numbers, to make the profits high enough, to trigger executive bonuses.

Not only did the CEO of Fannie Mae, the government run enterprise, not face prison, but wasn't even charged.

Nothing happened.

Instead, we just footed the bill on billions of dollars in bad loans, while Franklin Raines walked away with millions.

That's how having government in charge works.

And we see the same thing in the USPS, and BMV, and the VA system. Lost money. Lousy service. Terrible results, and high costs.

If any countries governments run any business that doesn't do well, it means that the government is doing something wrong. I could fix any problems. You know who else could? This guy.

 

[quarantine]

It might interest you to know that if we had universal health care, from what we would save on such pointless bureaucracy, it alone would pay for around half of what universal health care costs.

Of course, because pointless government bureaucracy is much cheaper than pointless private bureaucracy......DURR

Do you enjoy being stupid? With private bureaucracy, they can and have gotten away with murder! To paraphrase Calvin Coolidge, "The business of government IS business." But with something run by the government, they can be held more accountable. Because those in office can be voted out of office. But votes mean nothing to big business.

But with something run by the government, they can be held more accountable.

You are crazy.



Government services are never held accountable. I remember going to the USPS, and standing in line behind a guy, whose apparently important package containing, as best I could tell, legal documents.

The package had been lost in Missouri. (I'm in Ohio). The guy asked if he could get a track on the package. "I'm sorry sir we don't do that". Could he call the fascility in Missouri to get it expedited? "I'm sorry sir, you can't upgrade once shipped". Could he get a curious to pick the package up? "Sorry sir, we can't release a package until it is delivered." Could he simply call the manager at that facility and talk to him? "Sorry, we don't do that". He was acting like he should have been a valued customer, when he was not at FedEx.

While this half hour long conversation is going on, there is a line behind me, going to the door of the Post Office. Meanwhile, there 7 stations.... and only this 1 guy is working... and there are two employees of the Post Office against the wall, talking to each other.

That's government being held accountable? For what?

I went to a government run clinic here in Columbus Ohio. It was August, and it was hot. I walked into the lobby, to find the place packed. No air conditioning. I sat down on one of the few empty chairs, and tilted to the left. The Chair was broken. On the table in front of me, was half of the top cover of a magazine long gone. Bits of paper, from People Magazine. The room was oddly dim, I looked up and half the lights were out, and then noticed that the hung ceiling had mold and water spots on nearly all of them. The TV in the corner was like something out of a history channel show. It appeared to be an old 12" Black and White CRT. It looked like it had a digital to analog tuner.

But that's ok, because you couldn't hear anything anyway over the crying and coughing, and noise of the lobby.

The "doctor" came out and went to lunch. In a T-shirt and baseball cap. He acknowledged no one, said nothing, and left.

I waited there for an hour, before being seen. I was there only for a drug test. Yet even the drug test, was over an hour, because the nurse basically ignored me, doing something else, even after I was brought back. She was rude, and nearly insulting.

As I left the facility, I realized that during my almost 2 hours of being there, that not a single person in the entire lobby had been called back.

This is government accountability?

Where? Where is government accountability?

What you say doesn't diminish the fact that things run by the government work better. With something having to do with something run by the government, you can at least write your senator. If you complain to a business, they will just say, "Then go elsewhere." And you can. If they don't hold a monopoly. Like my cable company does. Unless you go the satellite dish rout, they are your only alternative in any particular area. Even then, they are all in cahoots. I have expanded basic service. No HBO or anything like that. I get hundreds of channels shoved down my throat. And half of them aren't even in English. I only need on the outside, 15 channels. The rest they can shove up their ass. But as it is, I pay more for cable TV than I do rent!

If it was run by the government, there would be somebody I could complain to. As it is, I just have to take it up the ass. And part of the reason why is that for all those channels they carry, those networks pay the cable company to carry their programming. There are probably also middlemen companies who provide programming. And if the cable company wants a particular channel, they HAVE to take a bunch of other garbage with it. And in true capitalist fashion, pass the costs onto us. Also, on those other channels, they probably run commercials. The cable company probably gets the largest chunk of whatever those who made the commercials pay to have those commercials shown.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How about this. I get my cell phone for free, then you do too. How? By having the government take over communications companies. Then, instead of doing whatever for a profit, they provide their services at cost. Tell me that wouldn't be cheaper.

It wouldn't' be cheaper. Tell me this, why did the government have to sell Amtrak to a private entity? Why did they have to sell their cafeteria to a private entity? Why did the government need to hire private insurance companies to handle their Medicare claims? Why are Social Security and Medicare running out of money?

Now if you're still not convinced, why should government just takeover healthcare insurance? Why not car insurance, life insurance, house and apartment insurance? Why don't they take over all the grocery stores, the restaurants, the gas stations?

Healthcare insurance is one of the lowest profit insurance in the industry.

Next, our health care system sucks cock! It is possible there may be a few problems in the health care systems of countries that provide free health care. But they are nothing compared to ours. Less than nothing. Also, for the countries that provide free health care, they all go about it a bit differently. If we started such a system in this country, we could pick and choose the best aspects of all those other universal health care systems and create one that it above them all.

Our healthcare is the greatest in the world. We come out with more procedures, more technology than those other countries. I have an immediate family member that works at the Clinic. She tells me all the time of big-wig foreigners coming there (from their socialist medical care systems) for treatment, especially risky surgery. They are so wealthy they rent out the entire hospital floor for security purposes. You can't stop the elevator on that floor unless you have a key. This is not once in a great while, it happens all the time.

Among groups of monkeys, as well as other creatures, status is everything. As long as you have status, you are happy. In those other countries, they often have grinding poverty. Poverty at a level that would put any poverty in the U.S. to shame. I even saw a family in the Philippines who lived in a tomb in a graveyard. (and they weren't the only ones doing so) The owners didn't care, as long as they took care of the place. With such poverty going on, it doesn't take a very high standard of living for a doctor to have status and feel superior. And thus be happy. All we need to do is do what we can to give doctors more status here in the U.S.

I don't know what that has to do with the price of rice in China. Give them status for what? Do you really believe they will accept less money that way? Look.......nobody goes to school for eight of the best years of their life, end up with a mega college debt, have to pay high malpractice insurance rates as all new doctors do, to make 50K a year. It doesn't work that way.

Back in ancient Rome, they had one way of making the elite feel superior. Only the elite were allowed to wear purple colored clothing. Also, here in the U.S., doctors pay a large portion of their income for malpractice insurance. If we had universal health care in this country, we could do away with that. If a doctor screws up, the government pays the compensation. If any doctor screws up in an outrageously bad way, he has his licence to practice revoked. Or if a doctor screws up less severely too often, his licence to practice is revoked. I have also heard that in this country, there is a shortage of nurses and doctors. A free college education is something that this country should have anyway. But on top of that, give people going into those professions a little more incentive.

Each party has financial support groups. They give money to the parties to promote their agendas. One of the top party contributors for the Democrats are trial lawyers. Do you think the Democrats would throw them under the bus by stopping lawsuits??????

I lost my job and career not long ago. I waited as long as I could before trying to file for unemployment. However that was when the shutdown went in effect, and our unemployment bureau couldn't handle the claims. In fact, they refused me because I left my job. Well no shit!!! WTF did you want me to do when the government told me I can no longer drive??? I filed for an appeal, and haven't heard a word from them since. This was about a month ago.

I don't expect to hear from them either, and hope they don't contact me. Screw them. In any case, I contacted our Governors office. I explained my problem, and strongly suggest that we get rid of our failed government unemployment bureau, and replace them with several private insurance companies. They would have did ten times the better job. Why? Because they wouldn't want to lose a large customer like the state of Ohio. Think anybody at the government unemployment bureau is afraid of losing their job? Don't you believe it for a second.

If government ever took over healthcare, that would give them the ability to control each and every one of us: what kind of food to eat, how many alcoholic beverages we are allowed to purchase every month, if we could smoke, what we are allowed to smoke, and how much of what we are permitted to smoke, risky actives like riding a motorcycle, mountain climbing, hang gliding, bungie cord jumping, you name it.

Don't think things like that couldn't happen here? Think again.

Fat in Japan? You're breaking the law. - The World from PRX

As the health care debate rages in the US, Tokyo lawmakers set a maximum waist size. Are you too fat for Japan?

www.pri.org

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

Obese people will be routinely refused operations across the NHS, health service bosses have warned, after one authority said it would limit procedures on an unprecedented scale.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It might interest you to know that if we had universal health care, from what we would save on such pointless bureaucracy, it alone would pay for around half of what universal health care costs.

Of course, because pointless government bureaucracy is much cheaper than pointless private bureaucracy......DURR

Do you enjoy being stupid? With private bureaucracy, they can and have gotten away with murder! To paraphrase Calvin Coolidge, "The business of government IS business." But with something run by the government, they can be held more accountable. Because those in office can be voted out of office. But votes mean nothing to big business.

Do you enjoy being stupid?

Stop mumbling to yourself.

But with something run by the government, they can be held more accountable.

Exactly! When the DMV or the IRS sucks, a letter to your politicians can fix the problem.....quickly!

But votes mean nothing to big business.

And neither do the dollars of their customers. That's why Sears and JCPenny are doing so well.

If the IRS and DMV were privately run, a letter to your politicians would do less good. Next, don't bring any supply and demand BS into the argument. Big business runs this country. And politicians work for them. Nobody who heads any big business-corporation is voted into office. Neither can they be voted out. You need to see the documentary, "The Corporation." After that, the documentary, "What lies upstream." Basically, corporations are above the law. You could even say they are the law.

View attachment 342185

If the IRS and DMV were privately run

They'd do a better job with customer service, or they'd have none.

You need to see the documentary,

Maybe you should watch less TV and get a fucking job?

Why do you feel people work for the guy who died 3 years ago?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What you say doesn't diminish the fact that things run by the government work better.

Exactly!
That's why the USSR was such a wild success. DURR

 

[quarantine]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

Where does the money come from????

The same place it comes from now. Pretend land. Our fiat currency is probably over 20 trillion in debt. It doesn't matter if it is 40 trillion. Though before the coronavirus thing hit, the U.S. was paying around 420 billion dollars a year just on the interest of our national debt. Which is basically money flushed down the toilet. And we just burrow more money to pay that. We need to just tell whoever we owe interest to to suck it! Apart from the national debt, we also have around 61 trillion worth of unfunded obligations. And I don't want to split the hair between a debt and an obligation.

We need to just tell whoever we owe interest to to suck it!

But you want to borrow more money for handouts to you?

You're not real bright, are you?

Usury is for suckers and slaves.

Well ok....

But understand that if you eliminate Usury, then you are not going to borrow anymore.

That means if you don't have money for a car, then you simply don't get a car.

And if there isn't money for Social Security, then there is no Social Security.

If you don't have money for education, then you simply don't get education.

If there is no money for Medicare, then you simply don't get Medicare.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the concept of banning Usury. But you need to understand what that means. No credit cards. If you want to go out to eat, because some friends came into town unexpected, and you don't have money.... you don't go out to eat.

Are you ok with this?

You don't need usury to have any of that. When inflation heats up, the fed increases interests payments. If the economy is doing poorly, the fed nearly eliminates interest payments-usury.

Without Usury, it does not matter what the Fed does.... if you don't have the money to buy something... then you are not going to be able to buy it. No matter what the Fed does.

You don't make any sense.

If you want to buy a house.... and there is no Usury... why would anyone lend you the money to buy a house? They wouldn't.

Doesn't matter what the Fed does. Why would I loan you $100,000 to buy a house, if I can't earn a profit off of loaning you the money? Without Usury, I would get back $100,000 on my $100,000 loan.

Why would I do this? I wouldn't.

If I'm a bank, I'm not going to give you a mortgage, because why would I do something that earns me nothing? Has nothing to do with the Fed. Fed has zero influence on this choice.

I'm simply not going to loan you the money. It would be better for me to invest that $100,000 in stocks. At least with stocks I'll get a return on my investment.

No Usury, means no money for you. If you don't have the cash, you don't get the stuff.

If you are ok with that, so am I. I'm all for banning Usury. But you need to understand... no house unless you have cash. No car unless you have cash. Doesn't matter what the Fed does. No one is going to loan you money, if they can't make a profit.

Face it. Capitalism is a farce. Everything should be provided by the government. Taking care of the people is their job. (At least, it should be) Not kissing hands and shaking babies. Housing, health care, education and transportation should be free. Free Free FREEEEEEEEEE!!!! Healthcare should apply equally to anybody. But as far as everything else goes, it would have to depend on your station in life. Those who are doctors or scientists for example should have better housing and transportation than a laborer. In return, people give their labor to support society.

In my town they have a plan to make the bridges toll bridges. In other words, privatize them. But those people are in it to make a profit. If you want something done as cheaply as possible, providing companies with profit isn't the way to go. No doubt one way they would do it is by paying their workers less and giving them fewer benefits than a city worker would get. Which is a race to the bottom. Screw that.

Who would work? Why work? Why invent? Why produce? Why research? Why do anything but sit around?

Your opinion of humanity is delusional. People are inventive. Producing gives them a sense of pride and worth.

Nah, give me what I want, new car, new motorhome, new home, all the money I want, free healthcare, free food, free electric, free campsites when I travel. Hell, if you can get it why not me? I’ve worked hard all my life. The government owes me tons!

What if you were given all those things. But for a price. That price being that you do whatever part you can in seeing to it that everybody else can receive those things too. (Which wouldn't mean working people to death) Would you sign on for that? Or are you so brainwashed that you think that greed and accumulating as much as you can at any negative cost to society is the best option for society.

Greed goes both ways, you want to exploit people and tell them what they can make.

No. Greed goes one way. The more you have, the more you want. Also, study's have shown that the more poor a person is, the more honest they are likely to be. Another thing is that part of the way people make money in this country is in trying to convince others that they want something that they don't really need. This too is driven by greed. It shouldn't be that way. And in at least the next 50 years, it won't be. Because most of humanity and the rest of life on this planet will be extinct due to human caused global warming. Some say it will be within the next 20 years.

No. Greed goes one way. The more you have, the more you want.

No. You are wrong. In fact, the people who earn the most, are most likely to give it away.

It's the people who are poor, that try and end up miserly and pinching every single penny.

Another thing is that part of the way people make money in this country is in trying to convince others that they want something that they don't really need. This too is driven by greed.

Funny, because I saw millions of dollars spent trying to convince everyone, that we wanted universal government run health care. I saw millions spent by Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, and numerous others, that we wanted those idiots in office.

Must be all greedy bastards then.

This is dumb argument. That's retarded. I don't know what you did for a living, but my guess is your paycheck was tied to a marketing campaign somewhere. Every wage I earned in my life, was tied to marketing on something.

And in at least the next 50 years, it won't be.

Soviets said the same thing. So did Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. Not convincing me.

Because most of humanity and the rest of life on this planet will be extinct due to human caused global warming. Some say it will be within the next 20 years.

And there you have it. We're back to John Maynard Keynes "in the long run, we're all dead".

View attachment 341630

Look, if the world is going to end anyway, then what difference does it make if you get free education?

Dumb dumb dumb.

You must be high. If the wealthy gave their money away, they wouldn't have it to begin with. But I know what you're getting at. Who they leave their money to after they die. Well for any that might, chances are that many would do the types of things that Andrew Carnegie did. Building Carnegie Hall and other monuments to his vanity. And the reason why he could do so it because he had far more money than he needed. What I call somebody who has far more than they need is a pig.

Next, if you don't have pennys, what is there to pinch. On the other hand, I heard of a wealthy miserly woman. She had millions. But wouldn't pay for an operation that her son needed.

Next, people who didn't want universal health care spent far more. Also, some years ago there were some asshole tea party protesters across the street who were protesting against universal health care. At the end of the line where they had their cars parked, there were two people sitting in the back of their car promoting universal health care. Being so cool, I decided to go over and talk to them. I brought up to one of them how some insurance companies (though probably all) will have workers who's whole job is to dig up bullshit from the past of those they insure and use it as a reason to deny them coverage. Causing those people pain, suffering and death. As it turned out, the person I was talking to worked at an insurance company himself. And that was his job there. No doubt he was protesting for universal health care because he had a guilty conscience.

Also, I had the same sort of thing happen to me once. I got hit by a car in Florida. I was on a motorcycle stopped at a light and was hit from behind. Everybody was amazed that I survived. For the guy that hit me, his insurance dug up some bullshit from his past and denied him coverage. Leaving me fucked.

It might interest you to know that if we had universal health care, from what we would save on such pointless bureaucracy, it alone would pay for around half of what universal health care costs. And as I was saying to someone else, as a percentage of various countries GDP, the U.S. pays more and gets less than what other developed countries pay as a percentage of their GDP. I even remember hearing of some drug company here in the U.S. that made a particular drug that had been around for a long time. They raised the price of it by 100,000%! Need I go on.

If the wealthy gave their money away, they wouldn't have it to begin with.

There are many ways to give away money, that doesn't involve you becoming poor.

That's a dumb comment. Say I own a business, and my business generates $200,000 in profit for me.

I could give away $100,000 a year, every single year, and still be massively wealthy. In fact, not only could I give away $100,000 a year, but I could invest some of the remaining, and increase my net worth year over year, while still being extremely charitable.

Prove to me, you at least have some amount of intelligence at all, and stop saying ridiculously stupid comments. Think before you type, sir. Dumb statement. Very dumb.

What I call somebody who has far more than they need is a pig.

Just remember this.... to everyone in the world... you are the pig. You have far more than you need.

"more than they need" is subjective, and to 99% of this planet, you are the wealthy pig hording everything.

On the other hand, I heard of a wealthy miserly woman. She had millions. But wouldn't pay for an operation that her son needed.

Yes, and that is one example from how many millions on millions of wealthy people in this country?

We all know there are crazy people. Try not to judge everyone, based on the actions of the very few.

Next, people who didn't want universal health care spent far more.

Factually untrue. The most expensive plan at my multinational company of thousands on thousands of employees, was $350/month. That's the high end expensive family plan.

Universal health care is going to cost double our taxes. At the low end, it will cost a 12% increase in taxes, from the lowest tax bracket up.

Let's take a median income of $40,000 a year. 20% in taxes to pay for Universal Health care, would be $8,000 or $666 a month. The high end of the middle class would be around $60,000 a year, and that would cost $12,000 a year, or $1,000 a month. I don't know anyone paying that much for insurance.

I personally have never paid more than $200 a month for insurance anywhere.

Saying Universal Health care will cost less than our current system... is just factually wrong. Ridiculous honestly. Again, when you look at Europe, you don't see anyone anywhere in Europe that is paying less than we are. Not one. They all pay more... much more.

Again, marginal tax rate for someone earning $37,000 in the US is 22%. In the EU, it's 49%. More than double. And they earn less money than we do. They earn less, because of their tax and social systems. So they earn much less, and keep less of the less they earn.

And you think we'll end up better off using their system? You are crazy.

No doubt he was protesting for universal health care because he had a guilty conscience.

No. Insurance stand to make big money working with the government. The more you involve government with insurance companies, the more the insurance companies are going to make.

Free-markets make monopolies hard, because anyone can compete, and then you have to compete on services and prices. Competition makes life hard. You can't charge too much, or the customers leave. You can't save money by cutting services, or the customers leave. You have to constantly be checking to see where you are in the market, constantly checking your customer base to see if they are happy, and there is always a new competitor around the corner.

But with government, it is just like the BMV, and the Post Office, you can treat people like crap, and it doesn't affect you, because your money comes from government.

And generally you are shield by government when things go badly. Look at Franklin Raines. He was caught clearly fudging the numbers at Fannie Mae. Clear corruption, by fabricating profits, to trigger executive bonuses.

What happened to him? Nothing. We the tax payers paid for the entire failure of Fannie Mae, and Franklin Raines, didn't even go to trial for clear fraud, let alone prison.

Trust me, the biggest insurance companies are all completely in favor of Universal Health Care. They know they are going to make billions in profit, while being able to treat their customers like crap, and nothing will happen to them, because they'll have the backing of government.

This is why I've said hundreds of times, the socialists and left-wingers are the biggest pawns of big business there is. All the big companies have you people, wrapped around their figure, dancing to their tune, so they can make billions of dollars while we suffer... and you promote this to your own death.

Why don't you stop speaking crap. I said that as a percentage of various countries GDP, the ones who provide universal health care pay less. That's the end of the story. And here is something to back it up.

 

[quarantine]

It might interest you to know that if we had universal health care, from what we would save on such pointless bureaucracy, it alone would pay for around half of what universal health care costs.

Of course, because pointless government bureaucracy is much cheaper than pointless private bureaucracy......DURR

Do you enjoy being stupid? With private bureaucracy, they can and have gotten away with murder! To paraphrase Calvin Coolidge, "The business of government IS business." But with something run by the government, they can be held more accountable. Because those in office can be voted out of office. But votes mean nothing to big business.

Do you enjoy being stupid?

Stop mumbling to yourself.

But with something run by the government, they can be held more accountable.

Exactly! When the DMV or the IRS sucks, a letter to your politicians can fix the problem.....quickly!

But votes mean nothing to big business.

And neither do the dollars of their customers. That's why Sears and JCPenny are doing so well.

If the IRS and DMV were privately run, a letter to your politicians would do less good. Next, don't bring any supply and demand BS into the argument. Big business runs this country. And politicians work for them. Nobody who heads any big business-corporation is voted into office. Neither can they be voted out. You need to see the documentary, "The Corporation." After that, the documentary, "What lies upstream." Basically, corporations are above the law. You could even say they are the law.

View attachment 342185

If the IRS and DMV were privately run

They'd do a better job with customer service, or they'd have none.

You need to see the documentary,

Maybe you should watch less TV and get a fucking job?

Why do you feel people work for the guy who died 3 years ago?

1. Bullshit.
2. Blow me.
3. Whoever took his place, (probably his son) no doubt does things the same way.

 

[quarantine]

What you say doesn't diminish the fact that things run by the government work better.

Exactly!
That's why the USSR was such a wild success. DURR

Newsflash. We aren't the USSR. Neither are we China. Nor Venezuela. Etc.

 

[Andylusion]

Its time to get back to work. The virus is waning if we can keep it going down.
The summer heat is almost here. Lets hope the virus keeps slowing, and slowing, and slowing....
View attachment 336171

From what I have been seeing on the news, many states are reopening even though the cases of coronavirus is still increasing. Also, how many instances of coronavirus in this country did it take to get the whole ball rolling to begin with. 2 or 3?

Then why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
Its going down, with 1,417,350 US cases, how can it go down with so many active cases, not just 1 or 2?

Because of quarantine. With the 2 or 3 who got the whole plague rolling here, there was no quarantine.

Yes there most certainly was a quarantine here, for travelers from China, but not from Europe?!
Quarantine? Not all of the 1.4m are quarantined, so why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
You did not answer this question: What's a worse condition, 1.4m cases or a few?
We have the 1.4m now and the number of cases is going down, why? How can that be?

President Chump just didn't handle things well. And he still isn't.

Really? So what should he have done? I'll show you why he couldn't or didn't.

Well, president Chump could have started out by not calling the coronavirus a hoax at the beginning.

He didn't call it a hoax, he called what Democrats were trying to do with it another one of their hoaxes. Of course this was before we had any idea how this thing would impact us. But lets say he never made that statement. How would that have changed our current plight?

He called it a hoax. Next, it would have changed our current plight by taking it seriously from the beginning. And there would be over 30,000 fewer dead people.

President Trump is a former businessman, not a former scientist or medical expert. He took the advice from our various health agencies and his medical team to make decisions. Even in late February, Dr. Fauci made a public statement that this virus was nothing of great concern; go out and live life as you always have, and there is no need to use gloves or masks.

When the WHO made a public statement about their concern of this virus in late January, President Trump took action the next day. No, he didn't shutdown the country, but he did take a few precautionary measures, and increased those measures as new information because available, and his team and agencies were able to form a better opinion.

Today the CDC made an announcement that 35% of the Covid cases were with asymptomatic people. That means this virus likely has been with us much longer than we thought. Asymptomatic people have the virus and don't become ill because of it. However they are just as contagious as those that did get ill. That means these people were hugging their friends and family, shaking hands with strangers, drinking at bars and eating at restaurants, squeezing fruit and vegetables at their grocery store.

As for the non-asymptomatic people, the symptoms are similar to a bad cold or early flu, which a lot of people never seek medical attention for.

Therefore your theory about saving 30,000 people is your opinion, not fact.

Saving over 30,000 people with earlier action is what they said on the news last night. But admittedly, you can't always believe the news. For example, they say that Armaud Arbery was murdered. Though like it or not, president Chump started out by calling the whole thing a hoax. And it seems every step of the way, he has been dragging his feet. As for his "experts," they are on his payroll. They will basically say what they're told to say. Including the CDC. Don't believe it? Watch the documentary, "What lies upstream."

Your documentaries are not Gospel. They are trying to get you to watch their programming for profit.

Yes, if we started in September of last year, we could have saved tens of thousands of lives, but who knew what could happen back then? Trump didn't drag his feet. Our agencies are mired in red tape, and they practice these unnecessary prolonged actions that the President is not in control of.

In late February of this year, Cuomo was urging people to not worry about this silly virus. Go out, shop, dine, and carry on with your normal life. DeBlazio sent the same message to NYC residents around that same time. Piglosi was telling people to visit Chinatown. NOBODY KNEW!!!! The first two weeks of March, the House Democrats were trying to pass a bill stripping the President of his exclusive right to issue travel bans.

Bottom line is armchair quarterbacks like yourself can make any claim they desire. I always said if you want to hit todays lottery, buy tomorrows newspaper. Easier said than done.

Did you see any of those documentaries? Until you do, you can't have any kind of opinion about them. Next, nobody said anything about September. They were talking about early March.

You leftists always pull this stunt. So let me be clear up front: If I had to watch every documentary a leftists tells me to watch, watch every movie, read every book you people read, I wouldn't have time to come here and discuss politics. If you have a short article, sure, if I have time, I'll go through it. But I'm not going to spend hours and hours to reply to each and every leftist comment. You wouldn't read any book or watch any documentary I suggest either. Nobody has that kind of time.

You should listen to me. Your intellectual superior. I have no interest in steering you wrong. And you shouldn't assume I'm trying to do so. Take the documentary I mentioned called, "What lies upstream." I will tell you some of what you don't want to find out about yourself. First, companies aren't required to tell what the toxic effects of any chemical they make are. And the can lie about it! The CDC is fine with this because their leadership is appointed by the pro-business leadership of the government. Republican or democrat. Also, do you know how chemical companies get rid of their toxic waist? Basically, they flush it down the toilet! And it is perfectly legal!!! So what is the point of you having the time to say things here when all you have to speak about is shit to begin with.

Oh please, so you watch these "documentaries" and conclude they are all Gospel? WTF would make you think that? I always question what's told to me from somebody trying to make money by getting my attention, even if it's something that leans towards my political persuasion.

Facebook is loaded with conspiracy theories that after enough attention, is proven false by another entity. And as my intellectual superior, you should know by now that what you call toxic waist is spelled W-A-S-T-E, not W-A-I-S-T.

Thanks for letting me know about a typo. But as far as I can see, correcting my grammar is the best you've got. As for the conspiracy angle, they talked to the experts. People with PhD's in their particular fields. Top experts. As in there being just about no other people on the planet that may know more. You may not think so. But such people are well worth listening to.

Another documentary I mentioned to you was, "Where to invade next." Here is a piece of information from it that you can consider to be bullshit at your leisure. Apparently, Norway has the most highly educated students in the world. At the very least, they are in the top three. You might find how they accomplished this to be interesting. They eliminated homework. It seems counterintuitive. But it is a reality. In school, how much homework did you do. I didn't do any. Maybe that explains my intelligence.

Since you studied it so intensely, tell me, does Norway have anything comparable to our teachers unions? Does Norway have three months of vacation from school every year?

Somebody being an expert does not mean they are not biased. We have scientist who believe in global warming, and others who believe it's BS. We have "experts" who believe there is life on other planets, and others who do not. We have engineers who said that 911 was an inside job. Others say those people are FOS.

Being an expert doesn't mean you are always right. Speaking of which, I was never a spellcheck cop. But when somebody tires to degrade me by claiming their intellectual superioriority, the least you can do is proofread your post.

Why not watch the documentary, "Where to invade next" and find out. You would be dumbfounded, absolutely blown away by what people in European countries get that we don't. Though as Michael Moore says, things over there aren't perfect. But he's there to pick the flowers. Not the weeds. He was there to invade those countries and take back to the U.S. the spoils of his invasion. As in the good ideas. The things that have been demonstrated to work. At least over there. But maybe with out large negro and mexican population, they wouldn't work here. But it would be well worth impaling and deporting the hindrance for many other reasons. Also, I wasn't trying to degrade you. Just some of the things you talk about. Even a genius could probably be brainwashed. (But not me)

You would be dumbfounded, absolutely blown away by what people in European countries get that we don't.

A lower standard of living, smaller cars, smaller homes, a smaller economy.

They also have 8 bucks a gallon for gasoline.

But their societies weren't structures around the automobile. Unlike ours. Here, we have a lot of suburban sprawl. People live so way far out that if there was ever an EMP that killed cars, they would find it very difficult to get food.

You are putting the cart, in front of the horse.

The whole reason we have suburban sprawl.... is directly because Americans are wealthy enough to have a car, and desire to have a house farther away from the noisy crime infested inner city areas.

Yeah, their societies are less structured around automobiles....... because they couldn't afford to drive automobiles all the time.

If you take those people, and bring them to the US, where they earn more money, and pay less taxes, you what those people's from those cultures do?

They buy the biggest SUV they can, and buy a house in the suburbs.

They would do the same thing in Europe... they just can't. They can't afford it, because they are poor.

I had this couple from Laos. Escaped the communists in Laos. Talk about running through the woods, being shot at by police. Freaky stuff.

Made it to the US embassy, came to the US. Didn't know English. Had to learn English. Got training on how to do CNC work. Got jobs, making $100,000 a year. (combined).

This tiny Laos woman, bought herself, a Ford Excursion, and they bought a house in the suburbs.

I asked her if she would go back to Laos. She's wants to, because she loved the people, and the land, but if she went back, she'd be poor. The government takes all the money.

This is the reality throughout all Europe.

Why do you think the Yellow Vest protest happened? They have all that free stuff you mentioned. You know what they don't have? Money. Their poor. Because the government takes all the money. The thing that triggered the protest, was the tax hike by the government to improve social services.

They are poor. I've been there. I've seen them living in 600 sqft apartments with no air conditioning, and hanging cloths up on wires inside their 600 sqft apartment. I've seen it.

Yeah, their societies are not built around automobiles, because they can't afford automobiles. Even those that have them, can't afford to drive them.

Economically, (for instance) we ARE a third world country compared to Germany. Given their size, when it comes to the yearly value of their exports, they leave the U.S. in the dust. They have the ability to have anything they want and any size they want. But just from how their society functions, they apparently don't feel they need it.

As for the couple from Laos, who let them assholes into our country. I was watching some show one time where they were talking to people from Laos. Some of their cultural beliefs are pretty despicable compared to what White people believe. What our country should have done is leave them in the hell hole they created for themselves and train a White person to do CNC work. (Whatever that is)

Economically, (for instance) we ARE a third world country compared to Germany.

The evidence I presented, proves that your claim is false.

As for the couple from Laos, who let them assholes into our country. I was watching some show one time where they were talking to people from Laos. Some of their cultural beliefs are pretty despicable compared to what White people believe. What our country should have done is leave them in the hell hole they created for themselves and train a White person to do CNC work. (Whatever that is)

Well... we disagree on that. I'm more like Trump, in that I'm all in favor of legal immigration.

Honestly, I'm sure that white people like you describe yourself exist in society somewhere, I can't say that I've ever met any white person with the views you described.

But then again, I'm conservative, from a family of conservatives, from a church of conservatives, with conservative relatives.

In short, we're good people. I don't know people like you. So.. I would be polite, but I don't associate with people like you. I only meet people like you described yourself, on the internet. I remember some guy spouted that crap on Facebook. Don't know how he was even on my friends list, but I fixed that pretty quick.

But we're good people. We hate criminals obviously. You come here legally... only.. But if you follow our laws, I'm all for it. My last roomate was a Muslim from Bangladesh. He wanted to rent an apartment until his wife arrived. We (me and my parents together) went to his citizenship ceremony. Of course entirely legal immigration.

So no, I don't identify with people like you at all.

And I presented evidence to the contrary of yours. I told somebody around here about something I came across once. It had to do with the yearly value of the exports of the U.S. compared to Germany. Germany is a much smaller country with few natural resources. Their population is also around 81 million. The U.S. is a far larger country with a lot of arable land and many natural resources. Our population is also around 319 million people. The value of our exports for one particular year was around 1 trillion, 600 billion. For Germany it was 1 trillion, 400 million. So I am right.

You also say you support foreign scab scum. Just like president Chump. In that, you are outright evil. I have a book to suggest to you. But I doubt if you would ever read it.

We exported about $2.5 trillion last year, Germany exported $1.5 trillion.
Why does Germany suck so much?

I looked again. I found that the U.S. exported 1 trillion, 645 billion in goods. Germany exported 1 trillion, 489 billion in goods. And as I said, Germany is a far smaller country. The reason why food prices are higher in Europe is because the place doesn't have nearly as much farm land or places for cattle to graze as the U.S. Also, the total value of what Germany imports is 1 trillion, 236 billion. The total value of what the U.S. imports is 3.1 trillion. If any country sucks, it is ours.

View attachment 341999

The land being used for farming in the EU, has declined.

This is why they are importing food more and more. If I had to guess, I would wager this has to do with government interference, but that's just a guess.

Also, the total value of what Germany imports is 1 trillion, 236 billion. The total value of what the U.S. imports is 3.1 trillion. If any country sucks, it is ours.

I disagree with the way the previous conversation was going.

You and me, both own a store. I make millions. I go to your store, and I can buy everything in the store. This is because the products you sell are cheap... and I make millions.

You barely make minimum wage. When you come to my store, you can barely afford to buy one item from my store. This is because I make expensive products, and you are poor.

If we drew a line between us, and called my said Andy-Country, and your side (fittingly) Quarantine-Country.... It would look like I imported millions from you, while you imported a hundred bucks from me.

Based on what, would you claim "I suck" because I'm rich, wealthy, and can afford everything I want from others?

Imports are not a negative. In fact, they are a positive.

Rich people buy.... read Import... more from poor people, because poor people are poor, and rich people are rich.

The US buys... imports.... more from China, because the US is rich, and China is poor.

Very few wealthy countries, export more than they import, and it is usually tied to energy... natural gas, oil, and so on.

First, let's look at the UK. They have around 63 million people. If the whole country was to switch to an agrarian lifestyle, they could only raise enough food to feed about 8 million people. "Government interference" has nothing to do with it. How much land you have does. Now I will make a specist (racist) statement. Given this fact, only the lowest of lowlife traitorous scum would be letting lowlife sand negro scum emigrate to there. Or here. Or anywhere.

As for international trade, it just shouldn't be happening. Especially with the wage slave country China. As anybody can see, it is too one sided. In favor of China. If any trade isn't equal, (fair) then it is criminal. And what can somebody from China making 50 cents an hour buy from and American who makes 8 dollars an hour.

Also, there are species of ant that take other species as ant as slaves to do their work for them. They evolved to the point where the slaver ants can't even feed themselves without the slave ants feeding them. To me, it is the slaver ants who are the real slaves. Another thing is that a long time ago, Europe was hungry for Chinese porcelain and silks. This caused European countries to bleed money. And the Europeans didn't make anything that the Chinese needed. This cause European countries to export opium to China to get some money back. This led to the Opium Wars. And the Chinese didn't do so well.

First, let's look at the UK. They have around 63 million people. If the whole country was to switch to an agrarian lifestyle, they could only raise enough food to feed about 8 million people.

then you said:

As for international trade, it just shouldn't be happening.

So... in your world, 50 Million people and more, should just die.
That makes you worse than the "lowlife traitorous scum" you claim to hate.

Another thing is that a long time ago, Europe was hungry for Chinese porcelain and silks. This caused European countries to bleed money. And the Europeans didn't make anything that the Chinese needed. This cause European countries to export opium to China to get some money back. This led to the Opium Wars. And the Chinese didn't do so well.

I've read about this time period, a dozen times. That is not true.

Chinese and Europeans were trading in goods.

The cause of the Opium wars, was that China decided they didn't need to trade, and closed trade with Europe.

The result of that actions was that hundreds of businesses that were built on trade with China, were now stuck without work. Specifically I'm referring to the people who engaged in trade routes.

If you the owner of trade ships, and the biggest trade partner just closed your business.... what do you do?

Well, you can just close, and go bankrupt. Or if you can't sell things legally, perhaps you can sell stuff illegally.

The key with black market goods, is that it can't be bread. You can't sell something that doesn't bring in a huge profit, because doing smuggling is of course risky. Your ship could be caught at the port. The navy could find you. You could lose a ton of money, if the authorities find you.

So if you are going to smuggle something, it has to be something that will bring in the money. Opium was the commodity of choice, because it brought in enough money to offset the risk of smuggling.

If China had not closed trade, all of those ships and traders would not have switched to Opium, and the Opium wars would never have happened.

You have the worst history rewriting I have ever seen. Someone really screwed up your education bad.

 

[Andylusion]

What you say doesn't diminish the fact that things run by the government work better.

Exactly!
That's why the USSR was such a wild success. DURR

Newsflash. We aren't the USSR. Neither are we China. Nor Venezuela. Etc.

Newsflash. Doing the same thing as the USSR, China, or Venezuela, will have the same results.

What level of stupid, do you have to be, to think if you follow the exact same patter as someone who failed, that magically it will work for you?

That's stupid, and you are stupid for thinking that way.